The Syndicate

I think the Denim Suit targeted Mongoose last night.

Mongoose wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Mongoose wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Mongoose, what does the mafia protection protect from? Please and thank you.
Are you asking about the JnCo role? It works like the Civ blocker role. I might need clarification on what you're asking.
Yes, Jnco- it says it protects a player. What does that protection protect from?
Please don't get mad at this request - but I'm going to need you to be more specific - you've just repeated your initial question

In my understanding, a protection keeps the target from being killed.

Jnco protects a player. Does that mean if Jnco targets Hedgeowl, then Hedgeowl merely survives if she is targeted with a kill?

Or does it mean something else?

Mongoose wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Mongoose, what does the mafia protection protect from? Please and thank you.
Are you asking about the JnCo role? It works like the Civ blocker role. I might need clarification on what you're asking.

Yes, Jnco- it says it protects a player. What does that protection protect from?

Mongoose, what does the mafia protection protect from? Please and thank you.

Long Con wrote:Ok, pardon me sir, someone made that assertion a couple of times.

No worries. I do recall someone saying that.

Long Con wrote:Hey, I've been out drinking g and throwing axes for a birthday tonight so I'm not going to say too much right now... posting on my phone in the car on the way home. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may very well be) but wasn't it Epi who said earlier that MP wouldn't self vote as a baddie? And now Juliets is on his baddie list? Or was it Llama who was saying that... don't remember. Thought it was Epi.

"MP would never do that if he was bad."

-something Epignosis would never say.

Scotty wrote:Epi, of LC and llama, who would you rather vote for if the poll ended tonight?

LC.

The scenario I outlined above I find implausible. Moreover, 3J suspected him more than anybody. Additionally, LC voted against lynching DDL Day 1, and then voted 3J twice.

Sorsha wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Less than ninety minutes and very little has been said. I feel like people just wait for a bandwagon to form and then jump on one.
Day ends tomorrow, not tonight

Spot on, you are.

insertnamehere wrote:May as well make one.

*votes thellama73*

So...

You think the Day 1 lynch was between a pair of teammates, and Wilgy chose to try to save their protector instead of either their blocker or Overalls.

I am inclined to believe that a mafia protector role exists for a reason. There is a secret for the civilians, there is a secret role, and there are prizes going out. It only makes sense that there is a threat to the mafia in another form than lynches, unless the protection extends to lynches the following Day, which, given that Mongoose is giving those out like Halloween candy, makes sense to me.

So is that what you believe happened Day 1?

insertnamehere wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Let me see:

Boomslang- Would not vote
INH- Would vote
Juliets- Would vote
Long Con- Would vote
Made- Would not vote
nijuukyugou- Would not vote
Quin- Would vote
Scotty- Would vote
Sorsha- Would not vote
thellama73- Would vote
So, your suspects are me, Juliets, LC, Quin, Scotty, and Llama?

Making your townreads Boomslang, Made, Niju, and Sorsha.

Why Juliets and Scotty in particular?

I have no reason not to suspect them. That's all.

Let me see:

Boomslang- Would not vote
INH- Would vote
Juliets- Would vote
Long Con- Would vote
Made- Would not vote
nijuukyugou- Would not vote
Quin- Would vote
Scotty- Would vote
Sorsha- Would not vote
thellama73- Would vote

Less than ninety minutes and very little has been said. I feel like people just wait for a bandwagon to form and then jump on one.

thellama73 voted without answering my questions. I take it he is silenced.

Long Con wrote:
thellama73 wrote:In my opinion, there's a lot of civ on civ squabbling going on up in here, and a lot of baddie coasting and laughing. Also, a lot of Llama going to bed.
As I said when he first said this: That opinion makes me feel suspicious, because I do not understand how a Civ could formulate it. In the parlance of our times: how the f*ck would you think that?

IF it's true that the main arguments are Civ on Civ, then there are four players who know that for sure, and correctly identifying such a thing could be a way to get that baddie some buddying-style Civ cred. As in, each Civ in this big Civ on Civ conflict can think "I'm a Civ, so Llama is at least reading me right and trying to steer this game in the right direction!"

thellama73 wrote:I also agree with the players saying that DDL sounds civ. He sounds civ to me too, particularly his post about game mechanics.
Straight-up defense of a baddie. Note that Llama doesn't just say "I think he's civ and here's why", he's puts it out there as an agreement with other opinions. It's not coming from Llama, it's coming from "the players" he's agreeing with.

Seems to me you're trying to argue two incompatible things at the same time. If llama's game plan was to get on the civilian squabblers' good side, his post stating his agreement with other people regarding DDL would be antithetical to that strategy, wouldn't it?

Nevertheless, I believe llama should be more specific about his view at the time that DDL sounded good. Which of his six living posts gave you that impression, llama?

LC, did you kill 3J?

juliets wrote:
Epignosis wrote:My residual suspicion of Quin has waned some.
Epi, is there a specific reason for this?

General demeanor I guess. If I had any specific reason I don't remember it.

This reinforces my view that the kills are logical, outright strategic kills.

The host option should have been, "All those damn guys who didn't make it to the playoffs this year."

My residual suspicion of Quin has waned some.

A Person wrote:that place is really pretty

Would look prettier with a poll.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:You two are on restriction. You are not allowed to suspect or talk to one another. Go to your rooms and think about other suspects.

-Your mom, Skeletor
What if my new suspect is you?

No dinner for you.

You two are on restriction. You are not allowed to suspect or talk to one another. Go to your rooms and think about other suspects.

-Your mom, Skeletor

I'm so fucking tired of the JJJ-LC dispute.

Scotty wrote:Why would the mafia need to protect a player? There's no vig listed. There must be a mechanic for another killing role, right?

Or am I missing something that would balance it out?

Mongoose really doesn't want people dying.

"I'm sorry we lynched you."

"You lynched me? What? I thought it was night!"

I'm not kidding.

Why would A Person abandon that role? You could do nothing and win.

Also, she wasn't bad AND I can't make it up to her by kicking ass tomorrow.

Thankfully I love my couch.

No civilian lynches though.

Off to the couch go I.

I think I will vote Eloh though. I have the most reason to believe A Person, whom she replaced, was bad, and if I'm wrong, I have the opportunity to make it up for her by kicking ass the next Day.

By then I can come off the couch.

Long Con wrote:I haven't read the last fifty or so posts, but I voted Eloh so as to not make it a tie, and she could easily be bad. Still at work, be back later to read up and talk.

Thanks. Now I can't vote INH.

I also think Eloh's suspicion of me may be genuine. I think it's possible she honestly didn't understand my circumstantial case against her, and she saw me as bad for it. "What the hell? I haven't even said anything!"

Quin wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Quin wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
juliets wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:All:

Tell me why we shouldn't lynch Elohcin.
She's not here to defend herself, which I know is an "old-school" reason not to Lynch someone but you asked.
But it's not like she hasn't had lots of opportunity to be here to defend herself. We told her she was a suspect yesterday and she asked for more time, which we gave her.
She hasn't had lots of opportunity. She literally hasn't been home all day.
Who's on your short list?
Other than her, you. I don't like lynching for information, but that seems to be what you want. Were this a fully open-setup Heist, I wouldn't bother, because you could be killed and then I would know your role. You seem to want everybody to know your role.
My role is insignificant. I know there's some damn good arguments to be made against me and I know I'm basically immune from night kills now. I don't want to stick around until LYLO and have the baddies turn on me then. It's just a matter of damage control.

Then that's a moronic reason to lynch you. Pass.

In that vein though, Boomslang voted you, Quin. If he were bad and thought you had information on him, he wouldn't want you lynched.

Quin wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
juliets wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:All:

Tell me why we shouldn't lynch Elohcin.
She's not here to defend herself, which I know is an "old-school" reason not to Lynch someone but you asked.
But it's not like she hasn't had lots of opportunity to be here to defend herself. We told her she was a suspect yesterday and she asked for more time, which we gave her.
She hasn't had lots of opportunity. She literally hasn't been home all day.
Who's on your short list?

Other than her, you. I don't like lynching for information, but that seems to be what you want. Were this a fully open-setup Heist, I wouldn't bother, because you could be killed and then I would know your role. You seem to want everybody to know your role.

I'm not saying "Don't vote Eloh." All I'm saying is, "Don't let the fact that she hasn't been around when she asked for time factor into your vote." She hasn't been around. That is all.

juliets wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Quin wrote:What's the gist of the case against Eloh 2.0?
Her vote against Wilgy was opportunistically timed, the timing and circumstances of her replacing back in are suspicious (although I am less sympathetic to this part of the case, as expounded by Epignosis) and she asked for a day to explain herself and then promptly disappeared. Her predecessor, AP, was basically an absentee.

Bad voting record. Bad participation. That combined with the process of elimination I outlined above makes me thing she is surely bad.
Again, I would leave participation on Thursdays out of the equation.
But then why did she ask for a day to prove herself if she wasn't going to be here?

She doesn't think when she speaks.

thellama73 wrote:
juliets wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:All:

Tell me why we shouldn't lynch Elohcin.
She's not here to defend herself, which I know is an "old-school" reason not to Lynch someone but you asked.
But it's not like she hasn't had lots of opportunity to be here to defend herself. We told her she was a suspect yesterday and she asked for more time, which we gave her.

She hasn't had lots of opportunity. She literally hasn't been home all day.

thellama73 wrote:
Quin wrote:What's the gist of the case against Eloh 2.0?
Her vote against Wilgy was opportunistically timed, the timing and circumstances of her replacing back in are suspicious (although I am less sympathetic to this part of the case, as expounded by Epignosis) and she asked for a day to explain herself and then promptly disappeared. Her predecessor, AP, was basically an absentee.

Bad voting record. Bad participation. That combined with the process of elimination I outlined above makes me thing she is surely bad.

Again, I would leave participation on Thursdays out of the equation.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Quin wrote:What's the gist of the case against Eloh 2.0?
~ Process of elimination

~ Her suspicions of Epi and I look fake

~ She requested an extension and didn't do anything with it

~ Her Wilgy vote was too late to mean anything, and when she answered to that it was pretty much to second my own comments.

~ I am less personally invested in the circumstantial replacement-relevant suspicion, but it exists.

That's not what I have, and I'd leave the extension out of it.

Spoiler: show

Although she just put my new chair together, so if I lynch her and she's good, I'm going to feel like a heel.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Long Con wrote:JJJ is my favourite person in this game, because I'd probably be nightkilled by now if it weren't for him.
This is a new point about Long Con I am thinking about. On a couple occasions he has asserted that he's pleased to receive some suspicion because it dissuades his being night killed. In this comment he says he'd have probably been night killed without my aggression.

I don't know why he'd feel that way. Even without me in the equation, his voting record is still bad and there's still no objective evidence in his favor. I don't see why he'd ever be night killed over the people who have been targeted (Boomslang and Marmot were both strongly trusted after the DDL lynch, and Elohcin 1.0 had roleblocker cred).

On some level this reads to me like a bad guy feeling the need to justify his continued survival.

He's old school, that's why.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Question: If INH was off the poll, who would get your vote and why?
I think I'd be deciding between Elohcin 2.0 and Long Con right now. Process of elimination leads me to them plus Quin, and I think Quin looks okay at face value. LC is a lasting suspicion; my biggest hesitation would be the significant personal bias I know I have embedded in that suspicion. Elohcin would be the safe choice. LC would be the gamble. I'm not sure what my final answer would be.

How about you?

Ordinarily, Eloh. You wanted more from her and she didn't deliver, but today is Thursday, and on a Thursday, you can forget getting anything out of her. So I don't blame her for not posting much.

I don't like circumstantial evidence nine times out of ten, but I think this one is pretty good. When I'm mafia, I don't want people I've killed coming back to the land of the living. Think about it: If Mafia killed Eloh not because of any role information, but simply because she was on the right track with her suspicion, and then she comes back via replacement, she is free to keep pounding the drum of her suspicion using the role of an inactive that you didn't think you'd have to worry about in the immediate.

Replacements like that made some sense back in the day when you had to be alive to win, but if you win with your faction, there's not too huge of a reason to be upset that you were eliminated.

Question: If INH was off the poll, who would get your vote and why?

By the way, in case in wasn't obvious, I lied about winning a prize.

insertnamehere wrote:I still think our triple lettered friend is bluffing.

Even if he won a one-time lynch immunity, I doubt he'd use it today.

I can definitely see him using it tomorrow, though. That's partly why I want him out today.

I also don't understand the Wilgy case.

I think that last sentence is troublesome. INH said he didn't understand the WIlgy case, but he made no effort (that I saw) to learn about it and clarify whatever it was he wasn't understanding.

What I note is that two kills were placed on DDL voters, and one on someone the Mafia may have believed blocked their first go. This indicates to me that we are dealing with a strategic-minded killer.

It is also noteworthy Wilgy did try to save DDL's skin Day 1. That makes me feel less suspicious of thellama73 (not that I was suspicious, but you get the idea).

Get this: Wilgy didn't vote at all Day 2. That indicates that he was under no pressure to save 3J or Quin like he was Day 1 in saving DDL.

Strictly going by the voting data, INH looks the most suspicious. INH gave 3J a short-lived +1 lead over Wilgy Day 3. And he started the train on thellama73 Day 1. Time to see what I can see about INH.

Dear oh dear.

I just spent a little while studying votes and scratching my head.

Finally figured out I was looking at A Mafia of Unfortunate Events polls.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:3J- LC hasn't killed you. What do you make of that?

LC- 3J hasn't killed you. What do you make of that?
I wouldn't expect to be killed in a game where I've been a prominent lynch wagon twice in three days.

One of LC's complaints against you, if I am recalling correctly, is that you were wasting his time (and he has certainly been spending a great deal of time on you). I would argue that's a prime incentive to kill you- so that he no longer feels the need to respond to your posts.

3J- LC hasn't killed you. What do you make of that?

LC- 3J hasn't killed you. What do you make of that?

Dude.

Spoiler: show

Scotty wrote:What could it possibly mean for the overalls' strap to come undone? To be attached? And what would that do for their lynchability?

It would seem to me like the mechanic of straps coming undone haven't come into effect yet. The killing has been happening every day, so unless the strap just happens to switch places every kill, I doubt it's doing the killing. If it's not doing the killing, that must mean that there must exist a mechanic to balance that, because if there's 2 kills on mafia, that's gonna be a bitch.
There surely must be a mechanic in the *Secret* Denim Mini that can combat this, like a big shit or something.

There's so many possibilities of unstrapping the overalls that I see here without any context:
-one time lynch immunity: doing so unstraps to a side.
Now the problem with this is...if it is unstrapped to one side and they start killing every other night, what determines the switch? Another attempted lynch/kill on overalls, and they are immune again? Naw. They must have the ability to switch in fair play. Two lynch immunities is bullshit with 4 mafia members.
-an item that they receive.
The problem with this is...it's too variable. Hell, who knows when items will become available during this game. Afaik there's only been one item giveaway. But even then, what "item" unstraps overalls? "HANDS"? Naw.
-the death of x number of mafia teammates
This one could make sense...with 2 down, maybe overalls are slightly hampered.
-a timing thing
Since we have lynch immunity for a civ role until the end of the 5th cycle, mayyyybe this also activates the Overalls as an SK? Or maybe the Jean Genie becomes the SK? The game is already 12 civs + 4 mafia + 1 Jean Genie. We don't know shit about the Jean Genie...
-the player controlling the Jean Genie votes for Overalls.
Thus granting some sort of hillbilly wish. I dunno. We were told the sock couldn't vote in the poll, but there are definitely more players than there are roles, so who knows.

------------------
How bout this tinfoil tho:
The Jean Genie is actually the Denim Mini's secret, and the Overalls are split into 2 people. Those 2 people are essentially blind in the mafia and don't have BTSC, but are searching for each other all game. If they find each other, they'll be essentially merged into their own team with btSC. And if one member dies, the other gains ability to kill every other night. And Vis versa. 12 v 3 v 2 seems relatively balanced, right?

I come to this tinfoil because the Jean Genie hasn't utilized the sock to give us any information or provide a use for civs. It essentially looks like a role mechanic that can talk to the thread in general privacy instead of making the host post on its behalf. It just has nothing to say because it doesn't know shit.

I think the extra player is not on our side, and so you if think a player looks like a hanging chad indie in the civ voting bloc, then maybe that player should be lynched instead.

That's my tinfoil for the day. Now time to go do a shit ton of interviews. Kill me.

Oooooooooooooooor...it's just a cute way of saying the Overalls kill every Night.

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