The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Your votes are shit.
No argument.

Epignosis wrote:Why did you vote the way you did? I know you have a phone, so why not wait until later to see what happens?
I can't stand to vote early, so I don't do it unless I am not sure I'll be able to vote later. I've had family from out-of-state in town this week, and I've spent a lot of time doing things with them. I don't want to be the guy staring at my damned phone the whole time. When I've left the computer to engage in that stuff, I have placed my votes and for the most part left the Mafia well enough alone.

On Day 1 I voted for MM because at the time he was one of my top four suspects. I had just finished stating a case against him and it's what I felt was the best material available. The DDL wagon didn't occur until well after that. Had I been around in the end with my vote in hand I would have favored a DDL lynch over a llama lynch. That can be believed or not, whatever.

On Day 2, I voted in self-preservation. I was underwhelmed with a Quin lynch.

On Day 3, I was deciding between Made and Wilgy. The latter had already been receiving plenty of negative attention and I was fine with his destruction. The former had been all-but forgotten by seemingly everyone (even in discussions of low posters his name hardly appeared). I wanted to remedy that. I stated some suspicion I had of him, discussed it a bit with MM and Quin, and decided that's where I wanted to vote.

I understand they look shitty and that's just life.

All right. That all works for me.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:*prolonged fart noise*

No, my thinking is twofold.

Your votes are shit.

However, your effort is good.

Now, before anyone says that "JJJ's effort is always good," let me clarify: I think your effort is genuine. Some (not all) of what you have said fits my mindset to a degree that makes me comfortable.

Why did you vote the way you did? I know you have a phone, so why not wait until later to see what happens?

I'm voting JaggedJimmyJay.

thellama73 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I still think Eloh subbed in for Mafia. Sorry dear- nothing you can say will change my mind. It's circumstantial.
I certainly have my suspicions there as well, but the sticking point for me is her stated preference for voting Wilgy, followed through with a vote, albeit a late one. It's possible tha she would have done this as his teammate, but I think it's less likely than the other candidates.

Let me ask you this, Epi. If Eloh indeed is bad, who would you suspect of being her last teammate?

I don't know. I'm too busy in the political thread trying to save the world.

I still think Eloh subbed in for Mafia. Sorry dear- nothing you can say will change my mind. It's circumstantial.

Long Con wrote:The poll ended in a tie, so we get no night post.

So sorry.

Scotty wrote:
Scotty wrote:Epi, I see you lurking.

what's your opinion on that Jean Genie hmmm?
That this post went ignored makes me really think that.

Your post wasn't ignored but your question was. I was more interested in reading the thread and trying to make an informed vote than discussing the a puppet account. I have no opinion about the puppet account.

I don't agree that Eloh's #1 being about Wilgy makes her look good. I gather the opposite. Her Wilgy comment seems to be out of left field to me. I am immediately suspicious of anyone who offers this as their reason for suspicion:

#1 is Wilgy. Quiet...quiet...quiet....And then he is here with fire. Makes me wonder if he is bad, was laying low, and then suddenly felt the need to come in and defend himself because his teammates said so.

There are a few issues I have with this:

First, where did this sudden opinion of Wilgy come from? I don't recall her talking about him before.
Second, I've been bad a lot. I have never seen anyone tell a teammate "You need to come in and defend yourself." Therefore this opinion looks fabricated to me. If I squint a little, I maybe have seen people coaching someone new to Mafia who doesn't know the first thing, but Wilgy isn't new.
Third, consider Wilgy himself- does he lie low when bad? I don't think so. He pretty much does whatever he wants. Vompatti, Jr., I believe I've called him before.
Fourth, this is a terribly specific accusation that is introduced with the "Makes me wonder" phrase. That's a phrase that can be applied to just about anything to give yourself leeway in the future.

I'm sorry. Her eventual vote notwithstanding, none of this makes me think Eloh2 is on the good side.

thellama73 wrote:Incidentally, my "to lynch" list for tomorrow is down to four players. I'm feeling confident.

Then we're probably fucked.

Also, I'm allergic to some cats, but not all. We had two cats once upon a time, Tunces and Hazel.

Boomslang doesn't know how to play Mafia. He thinks he has to lynch all of his teammates.

And nicely done.

Scotty wrote:Epi, I see you lurking.

what's your opinion on that Jean Genie hmmm?

Lurking =/= reading four pages

Elohcin wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Elohcin wrote:I think that y'all need to give me at least day to prove myself, I would hope.
I don't necessarily oppose that notion, but if you were to receive that kind of "extension" it'd be vital that you use it to your fullest advantage. The only read of yours that I have an idea of is Quin; it'd be good to know how you feel about everyone else.
No pressure, right?

Well, after reading through the thread today, I have two suspicions.
#1 is Wilgy. Quiet...quiet...quiet....And then he is here with fire. Makes me wonder if he is bad, was laying low, and then suddenly felt the need to come in and defend himself because his teammates said so.
#2 is Epi. I know I kind of said this, but I replaced in and he was on me before I could post. Really? I understand there is a possibility that someone comes back bad, but don't you think you ought to give them a chance to at least speak first? If he is civ, I would think he would want to at least hear from me. If he is bad, jumping on me before I can even say anything is an amazing opportunity for him because he KNOWS I am no good at defending myself even if I am civ.

I would be willing to vote either Epi, Wilgy, or Quin today.

I don't think you understand the nature of my suspicion of you. It isn't just that you replaced in.

Long Con wrote:
Epignosis wrote:There is a huge problem with the whole "the mafia team blocked their own kill."

Did the mafia team know that the name of a protected person would show up in the host post? I sure didn't. If they didn't, then why would they even think to try something like that? The host post could have just as easily said, "No one has been killed."
Well, if you can think of that now, then why couldn't they think of that before enacting the plan?

So they think of it and then what? Take a chance?

There is a huge problem with the whole "the mafia team blocked their own kill."

Did the mafia team know that the name of a protected person would show up in the host post? I sure didn't. If they didn't, then why would they even think to try something like that? The host post could have just as easily said, "No one has been killed."

Epignosis wrote:The job of the civilian is to consider all information available, including host actions. Eloh subbing back in after a night kill falls into that, and is fair game for discussion. I myself am suspicion of that at face value.

*suspicious

Jesus

I need a new keyboard.

The job of the civilian is to consider all information available, including host actions. Eloh subbing back in after a night kill falls into that, and is fair game for discussion. I myself am suspicion of that at face value.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:It's a matter of whether Elohcin 1.0 was being honest in this post:

Spoiler: show
Elohcin wrote:I'm back for a few while fish sticks are in the oven. Yes...fish sticks for breakfast, my daughter is weird.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Quin wrote:If Eloh role blocked me, but Boomslang's survival was the result of a doctor protection, it would probably mean Elohcin calling me out wasn't an attempt at a frame job. That would make her civilian. Any reason I shouldn't think this?
If all of these assumptions are granted, sure. I'm not certain we have the data necessary to just call Elohcin a roleblocker (for either faction). She emerged into this day phase with two primary comments of relevance:

1. Appreciative of my reviewing of the progression of votes on Day 1, which included a lengthy description of Quin emerging looking less than stellar.

2. She is suspicious of Quin.

My inclination is to tie these together -- she agreed with the concerns I expressed about Quin's vote and expressed suspicion accordingly. Elohcin, please correct me if this is not accurate.
You are 100% accurate in this. And then there was this which furthered my suspicion.

Quin wrote:
Elohcin wrote:Yay! No kill. I guess the kill was blocked.

I know I haven;t been here much, but I have been following along today and I think JJJ's summary of the votes on Day 1 was nicely detailed enough to catch me up. I have an idea of someone I think could be bad. Quin. His vote, his sneaky tone, and the fact that his defenses haven't sounded genuine to me.
So it was you, huh?
Whether I am a roleblocker or not...I will not say. But this reaction is alarming to me. If I were caught up, I would be voting Quin right now. But I feel I should at least catch up before voting.
Elohcin 2.0: I would recommend checking with Mongoose before commenting on anything about your past self.

I can confirm that our daughter ate fishsticks that morning for breakfast. I don't mind fish for breakfast, but fishsticks?

A Person doesn't like Mafia by the way. He even likes being bad less. He's a socialist Glorfindel. So there's that too.

That's actually what happened to me in another game. Not here.

Just to be clear.

It's additionally bad because, if all civilians win together, and you let a dead civilian sub in for mafia, and mafia loses, the civilian loses out on a win. No bueno. That's actually happened to me.

It's why I no longer let night killed people sub back in. A lynched person on Day 1 or 2 might be different, but never a night killed person.

My thinking has to do with how Eloh came in with the somebody has been blocked business. Now she gets killed because duh. It's only fair if she replaces in to put her on the bad team.

Also, if you're bad, would you be okay letting somebody you killed sub back in?

Unpopular as this may be, I would argue that Eloh is bad now.

Long Con wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:FYI: I earned a lynch immunity on the canine carrier express. We are allowed to discuss prizes. It is active today and only today. Do not waste your votes on me. I'll be back later.
You're lying. You didn't activate the lynch immunity last night. You get more value from it by making us believe it's active now, then you activate it in the future without saying anything.

Now you reply with false bravado and invite us to try and lynch you.

I'd like to lynch you. I hear you've got some new cool things that are going to convince everyone I'm bad first though.

Quin is off the poll. 3J gets a lynch immunity for today.

Huh.

Fuck beets.

Quin wrote:I do not know why the doctor was not on Elohcin last night.

Well, I was already on her, but that's another matter.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:FYI: I earned a lynch immunity on the canine carrier express. We are allowed to discuss prizes. It is active today and only today. Do not waste your votes on me. I'll be back later.

Very good. I earned a Day phase lie detection.

Mongoose wrote:What's everyone's favorite soda? I like anything with spices or herbs in it along with a fruit flavor, especially citrus. Blood Orange and Sicilian Lemon are two of my faves.

Beer.

And there's about to be hell to pay.

I would like to move on from Quin. I don't see a mafia role that would work in his favor.

Quin wrote:
Epignosis wrote:There is no role to save mafia from a lynch. That clears Quin, I should think. You have to make some assumptions to consider otherwise.
No it doesn't.

Fine. I suspect you again.

I just realized that said night polls.

I will go back to being dumb MLK weekend English teacher.

Mongoose wrote:
Quin wrote:Boomslang was singled out as being the survivor of the night kill, and both Jay and I were singled out in the lynch post. I think there was a tie. How are ties determined, Mongoose?
Ties are not broken in my games.

Uh

Mongoose wrote:Host Post: Someone asked a good question regarding the night polls. In the event of a tie in the night results, the Host breaks the tie (in order to make drafting the Night post easier). Happy Long Weekend, (American) friends!

Thank goodness I can't eat wheat or I'd eat every single item, sweet and savory, in this dear place.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Oh yay, we learn nothing.

No? Nothing? I don't agree.

Since when have you ever concerned yourself with learning anything?

Addendum: That's better.

There is no role to save mafia from a lynch. That clears Quin, I should think. You have to make some assumptions to consider otherwise.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... f=28&t=155

You missed out.

Quin wrote:
Long Con wrote:
Quin wrote:
thellama73 wrote:Very interesting. Could it be thta Quin is the unlynchable role? He seemed very unconcerned in the run up to the lynch.

No. I'd just gotten all my legacy reads out of the way and had nothing else to talk about.
Getting back right into it - why didn't you consider the possibility of Jay being the unlynchable role? A very strong point was made that there was vote manipulation going on.
I would like to note that my point was not "very strong" in the sense that I was implying that my own vote was anything but a single, regular one. I believe Quin is the Denim Shirt, not JJJ.

[ur=http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... =28&t=155l]You missed out.[/url]

Miller in a dinky 8 ounce can. Con artists.

Quin wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Quin wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:I'm increasingly willing to believe that 3J has been playing a super-helpful, positive baddie game. Not sold on it, but increasingly willing to believe it.
What does this say to you about Quin, who hates my guts?
He didn't suspect you until after the theory of a roleblock came out and that he was the killer. That sort of timing doesn't benefit my read of you.
This is wrong. I started to suspect him after he posted his initial feel-good/bad reads on Day 0.
No, you chatted with him on Day 0, questioned him on Day 1, projected your feelings on him, agree with him about llama, bantered with him, didn't include him in your reads when asked, and finally asked if he was llama's teammate on Day 2.

Sorry, but I don't buy it. You didn't "suspect" Jay until it was an extension of a suspicion of llama.

Would you believe me if I told you I was hiding my explicit read on him until I had something more substantial to work with?

I don't see why you would do that. Put a knife to his throat and make him talk if you think he's bad. Don't wait for something substantial. Make something substantial. Instead you used your time and energy having at it with llama.

thellama73 wrote:
Quin wrote: That's because he's bad. Anybody else would've wondered enough about a cryptic as fuck post to ask if they were in his position.
You know those people on Facebook who annoyingly post brief teasers with no information content specifically so people will ask them to elaborate? (e.g. "Worst day ever") I don't respond to those people.

Me neither.

Also because I'm not on Facebook.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Epignosis, how does a counter-wagon on Jay sound?

Interesting enough for you?

Linki:
I have already rendered my vote, so I do not feel right endorsing the lynch of someone else. If I had wanted 3J out, I would have voted him.
I really just want your read on him.

You said earlier you were going to operate under the assumption that Jay, llama, Quin, and Long Con were civilian and go from there. Your read of Quin changed; what of the others?

I adopted that perspective from a blend of experience and laziness. When I gained a precise understanding of what Quin was doing, he immediately went into the shit pile. He has placed llama in an indefensible position. Maybe llama is bad and Quin has information on him. I don't know. If that's the case, then I would say Quin handled it badly.

I have no reason to say any of them are good. I would say all of their Day 1 votes look bad, but that's circumstantial this early. They are all having at each other with wanton stubbornness. None of that on its own is enough for my condemnation.

Quin wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Quin wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Quin wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I mean, if someone had spoken positively about me before comes in and says he is going to break the tie, I would interpret that to mean that he would break the tie in my favor. No comment would be necessary.

Am I ignorant for thinking this?
Yes.
Then you have unreasonable expectations of people.
Llama wasn't inquisitive enough to ask me for my reads. I'd never once said I civ or scum read either of them. That's not unreasonable.
If the objective was that he was supposed to guess that you wanted him to ask you a question, then I have to say you have unreasonable expectations of people in general, and of llama specifically. Llama wasn't going to ask you for no damn reads.
That's because he's bad. Anybody else would've wondered enough about a cryptic as fuck post to ask if they were in his position.

I just said that I would not have.

Quin wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Quin wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I mean, if someone had spoken positively about me before comes in and says he is going to break the tie, I would interpret that to mean that he would break the tie in my favor. No comment would be necessary.

Am I ignorant for thinking this?
Yes.
Then you have unreasonable expectations of people.
Llama wasn't inquisitive enough to ask me for my reads. I'd never once said I civ or scum read either of them. That's not unreasonable.

If the objective was that he was supposed to guess that you wanted him to ask you a question, then I have to say you have unreasonable expectations of people in general, and of llama specifically. Llama wasn't going to ask you for no damn reads.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Epignosis, how does a counter-wagon on Jay sound?

Interesting enough for you?

Linki:

I have already rendered my vote, so I do not feel right endorsing the lynch of someone else. If I had wanted 3J out, I would have voted him.

Quin wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I mean, if someone had spoken positively about me before comes in and says he is going to break the tie, I would interpret that to mean that he would break the tie in my favor. No comment would be necessary.

Am I ignorant for thinking this?
Yes.

Then you have unreasonable expectations of people.

Sorsha wrote:
Epignosis wrote:DDL didn't comment on Quin's post either, so what the hell?
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... DL#p327252

It's a long one so I just liked back.

I read all that, but it all sounded like Charlie Brown's teacher.

Quin wrote:Clear contradiction. Pick a stance. Hopefully pick the one that's true.

I don't understand where there was a contradiction.

Quin wrote:And I don't believe you saw me baiting you specifically from that post. You aren't that insightful. You're making yourself look good using hindsight as a weapon. Nah. If I hadn't said anything you'd have no idea what I was thinking.

I don't get this either. Is the expectation here that llama be a mind reader?

Quin wrote:And I didn't expect DDL to respond to me. He wasn't in the thread. You were. And you're the only one I saw any baddie tells from.

What are these "baddie tells?" Or am I supposed to read your mind to glean them?

Voting Quin.

I mean, if someone had spoken positively about me before comes in and says he is going to break the tie, I would interpret that to mean that he would break the tie in my favor. No comment would be necessary.

Am I ignorant for thinking this?

DDL didn't comment on Quin's post either, so what the hell?

Sorsha wrote:
Quin wrote:When I said I'd break the tie, I expected llama to at least acknowledge it, since he was one of the two I'd be voting to lynch. I think he was complacent enough to give it a pass based on my earlier posts about him.

I also think the contradiction people suspect DDL for isn't of value. That's who he is, I know that much. I also think he'd have a new energy here if he was bad, considering he often complains about how he never rolls bad here.
This was what he said to that, Epi

Okay, then that's bullshit. I wouldn't have responded to Quin saying he was going to break the tie if I had been in the running. What did he expect llama to do? Break down and act like a little bitch? Grovel? Beg?

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