The Syndicate

I want to lynch Lorab.

Lame.

I didn't do shit this Day phase.

Glorfindel wrote:
Scotty wrote:Glorf, are you bad?

If you say the right answer, I might move my vote
My friend, I've played many games with you here at The Syndicate and you are someone for whom I have a great deal of respect. In this game however, I am increasingly convinced you are Mafia and your post above (in my opinion) is the icing on the cake. Do you REALLY expect me to buy that in ANY circumstance, you would shift your vote from me knowing that in all likelihood the consequence would be your own lynching?

I (want to) believe at the moment that the questions asked of me by Jay came from a place of genuineness and sincerity. I'm really sorry but the question put to me in the manner that you just did reeks of manipulation.

Glorfindel wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Thanks Scotty!

Glorfindel, got any response to what Scotty said?
My friend, I've believed in you all game and I still feel that you are our best hope here. I reviewed Sprityo/Scotty 2.0 in depth in an attempt to give you the most objective and informed response I could. I think the verdict is quite clear, and I assume I was sufficiently clear in the conclusion that I posted. In return, I've seen little more than the most thinly veiled OMGUS as his response. To my knowledge, he's been unable to put forward anything that looks remotely like a case against me other than declaring me 'Bad' in his GTH reads. I just read that he has resorted to inferring that my posts are 'verbose'. REALLY? If by that he means that I am committed to posting constructively so this will turn out right, then damn straight I'll put my hand up for that.
What is your opinion of Dom, Glorf?

And at what point is JJJ's pointed questions of "Are you bad?" are you looking to answer on your long list of things to get back to?
I will happily review my opinion of Dom and get back to you, my friend (I'm not given to throwing out glib opinions on others as is the case of some others in this game).

You obviously missed this post from Jay (only a few hours ago):
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think the Llama Method is more likely to work with some players than others, and Glorfindel is one I would put in that category. That's why I have been pressing those questions. I'd agree that they've not been answered in a way that would indicate his innocence.

I'm still listening though Matty, so answer at will.
And so I shall. I have no idea what he is referring to in his reference to 'the Llama method' but it's probably not that important in this context. You seem uncommonly keen for me to answer those questions all of a sudden...

Moved my vote.

Quin wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I still think Lorab is good. That's who I am most confident is a civilian.

3J.
Does this mean you have your doubts about clearing 3J and INH?

No. It means I'm busting his balls some.

I'll move my vote eventually.

Dom wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Grades are in. I should be able to devote a little more time to this, especially with the weekend approaching.
Were yours due today too?

Yes. I hate the end of a grading period. Students who do dick the whole time expect you to give them everything they are missing the last week of the grading period, and I give it to them, because I've gotten flak for failing too many kids.

Grades are in. I should be able to devote a little more time to this, especially with the weekend approaching.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Oh, NOW your vote on me is meaningless. I said as much yesterday. You denied it.
I am referring to "meaningless" in the context of the argument I was presenting here.

Epignosis wrote:And with the latter thing, you're just being silly. I don't think that, and you're grasping for straws, because super Jay, cleared Jay, is losing this game. "Epi thinks I'm actually bad." Get real.

You may not like my approach, but you are failing. Start thinking me as an annoying friend instead of an enemy,
I agree I'm losing. What is the relevance of that to anything?

It means you should listen instead of trying to take charge all the time. Whom do you trust?

My best wins as a civilian came after S~V~S told me to stop trying to be the leader and listen to others. Step back and observe.

You're a cracker jack civilian- no question. But I'm stepping back and looking at everything I can.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:When are you not justified to inquire about my reads and votes?
When the action renders me a doofus. Answer please.
I explained why I trust Lorab. I don't trust you as much as I do her because you voted for me for a time. So, to use Lorab's favorite phrase "Neener neener."
The vote is meaningless.

You think it's more likely that my own hypothetical baddie team (within which I am a part of the decision process) elected to shoot me and eliminate my lynchproof power than it is for a bad LoRab to let DrWilgy live?

Oh, NOW your vote on me is meaningless. I said as much yesterday. You denied it.

And with the latter thing, you're just being silly. I don't think that, and you're grasping for straws, because super Jay, cleared Jay, is losing this game. "Epi thinks I'm actually bad." Get real.

You may not like my approach, but you are failing. Start thinking me as an annoying friend instead of an enemy,

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:When are you not justified to inquire about my reads and votes?
When the action renders me a doofus. Answer please.

I explained why I trust Lorab. I don't trust you as much as I do her because you voted for me for a time. So, to use Lorab's favorite phrase "Neener neener."

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:You decide.
No. Answer the question.
It was a joke you doofus.
You just implied you trust LoRab more than you trust me, so I am justified to inquire about your reads and your votes. Was that also a joke?

When are you not justified to inquire about my reads and votes?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:You decide.
No. Answer the question.

It was a joke you doofus.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Because...I believe she would have killed Wilgy a long time ago were she bad. Therefore, I don't think she's bad. It isn't a feeling. It's my opinion.
You know why I'm asking you this, so please just answer the question and spare me these weasel responses. Why do you believe a bad LoRab would have killed DrWilgy a long time ago?

I thought it was obvious. Wilgy was gung-ho about lynching Lorab for a while there. Lorab doesn't bullshit around. She's good on your team. She snuffs the person suspecting her and twirls her way out of it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:JaggedJimmyJay
Snark or suspicion?

You decide.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I believe with every fiber in my being that Lorab would have greased Wilgy a long time ago.
What makes you feel that way?

Because...I believe she would have killed Wilgy a long time ago were she bad. Therefore, I don't think she's bad. It isn't a feeling. It's my opinion.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Was anybody going to vote motel room?

I think there's your answer.
Was anybody going to vote me?

JaggedJimmyJay

Was anybody going to vote motel room?

I think there's your answer.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I still think Lorab is good. That's who I am most confident is a civilian.
What about LoRab makes you feel so strongly?

I believe with every fiber in my being that Lorab would have greased Wilgy a long time ago.

Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I still think Lorab is good. That's who I am most confident is a civilian.

3J.
Who are you most confident is not a civilian?

I want to look at the voting record first.

I still think Lorab is good. That's who I am most confident is a civilian.

3J.

I see they do not.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Sorry for being worthless this night phase. I've been dealing with school stuff all day.

Do they come for you again?

motel room wrote:
Epignosis wrote:motel room- why did you vote Wilgy for so long?
I put it on him early in the Day because Sloonei and JJJ had votes on people and I wanted to add to the spread. I can't really read Wilgy, pretty ok with him flipping, still am. After we had a public holiday here I came back to what looked like an easy wagon on him, and some Wilgy responses that seemed legitimately town, and wanted to contribute more to the EOD stuff, putting my vote on Dom cos I read that everyone had read him "bad" but only JJJ was voting him. I wanted to see if people who read him bad would follow through with votes and I don't really feel like they did (gut, need to double check). After that I went to Glorfindel who has been someone I could see hiding behind his posting style and hasn't really done a lot of anything before I had my meeting.

Do you still suspect Sloonei? For what prompted for your vote that stayed on him or for other things now?

Somewhat. What prompted my vote to stay on him was that I was doing two other things at the time. I normally don't skip pages in mafia, but I can't keep up with the volume.

I started reading Wilgy before his lynch and was suspicious of him slightly. I'm going to do it again with this revelation.

And what prompted you to change your vote?

motel room- why did you vote Wilgy for so long?

I skipped two pages of bullshit. I can't keep up with that. I'm here now. Lynching Wilgy is a crap shoot in my opinion. This time it crapped out.

Sloonei wrote:That post Epi just made reminds me of another post Epi the Warden made in Turf Wars where he showed up at the end of the day and said "Oh my there's so much for me to read!" and then safely sat out as we lynched his teammate RadicalFuzz, I think. i could be misremembering this.

You're remembering that perfectly well.

Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I am four pages behind.

Speed reading.
Don't bother. Just dive right in. I'm voting for you because you showed no interest in actually engaging with Jay's case against you at the start of the day, and I think your suspicion of me was a drummed up effort to avoid having to share any other reads. Tell me why I'm wrong.

I don't care about Jay's case against me.

I am four pages behind.

Speed reading.

The first thing I took away from reading Wilgy is that I think Lorab is good.

Sloonei wrote:Hey Epi what do you think of the ongoing conversation between Wilgy and I? There's quite a lot of dirt on both of us in there.

I will admit I haven't kept up with Wilgy very well. I feel like lynching Wilgy if he's bad in general is the product of luck. I'll take a look at him and his interactions with you over lunch while I grade stuff.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Epignosis being more concerned with whether I really suspect him than the content of my post makes me want to leave my vote there. The correct answer, by the way, was that the suspicion was real.
I wasn't concerned, but since you say this is what you really think, it means you believe my opinion of Sloonei is fabricated. Very well. It isn't. I'm not going to put on a dog and pony show for the sake of appeasing you or changing your mind. It also means you believe your theory is that I killed Mac to set up Glorfindel. That's wrong too, but if that's what you want to go with, go with it.
Do you think Sloonei killed Mac to set you up?

Not really. From my experience, people usually get killed for three reasons: The victim is on the right track, the victim has a reputation as a strong civilian, or to keep things as unpredictable as possible. I don't often see too many mafias kill people to set someone up, because that sort of play rarely works out as planned. Nobody seems to think Mac was on the right track with Glorfindel, and he wasn't on the right track with me. Wilgy is a mystery to me, as always. Killing MacDougall, who could have been lynched, smells more like the third option, although you could make the case that MacDougall is a volatile player, and volatile civilians- those who can turn on you in an instant and with great fervor- are dangerous civilians.

Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Epignosis being more concerned with whether I really suspect him than the content of my post makes me want to leave my vote there. The correct answer, by the way, was that the suspicion was real.
I wasn't concerned, but since you say this is what you really think, it means you believe my opinion of Sloonei is fabricated. Very well. It isn't. I'm not going to put on a dog and pony show for the sake of appeasing you or changing your mind. It also means you believe your theory is that I killed Mac to set up Glorfindel. That's wrong too, but if that's what you want to go with, go with it.

Sloonei wrote:Of the three, Epi's behavior is the most difficult to grasp. He latched onto the very first thing I said today and has neither let go of it or moved on. He's still stuck on saying I was setting him up by asking him the softest softball of a question one can ask in mafia. I do not get it if he's town. If he's scum I can see an angle for it, but I do not think it would be his best or most likely move.
People trying to predict me.
So you admit you are bad?

No.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Epignosis being more concerned with whether I really suspect him than the content of my post makes me want to leave my vote there. The correct answer, by the way, was that the suspicion was real.

I wasn't concerned, but since you say this is what you really think, it means you believe my opinion of Sloonei is fabricated. Very well. It isn't. I'm not going to put on a dog and pony show for the sake of appeasing you or changing your mind. It also means you believe your theory is that I killed Mac to set up Glorfindel. That's wrong too, but if that's what you want to go with, go with it.

Sloonei wrote:Of the three, Epi's behavior is the most difficult to grasp. He latched onto the very first thing I said today and has neither let go of it or moved on. He's still stuck on saying I was setting him up by asking him the softest softball of a question one can ask in mafia. I do not get it if he's town. If he's scum I can see an angle for it, but I do not think it would be his best or most likely move.

People trying to predict me.

Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Let's review some of Zebra's strongest stances taken in this game:

~ Ricochet is bad.

~ Elohcin is good.

~ MovingPictures07 is bad.

I have spent the whole game thinking she looked genuine in her incorrectness, and I was willing to forgive. I ask myself now though, especially in the wake of Mac dying, whether I was being too easy on her. Zebra by her very nature as a player is very assertive about her manner of conveying her reads whether they are real or fake. That assertiveness is easy to mistake for sincerity, which is her best skill as a player.

Now we have Epignosis going after Mac right before his death in a way that perfectly recalls the circumstances earlier in the game, to the point that coincidence appears less likely than intent. I think motel room was making a valid inference when he suggested this first, and it was my immediate reaction to the reveal of Mac's death. Now, consider the most likely impact of a MacDougall death -- Glorfindel gets wasted today. It's the absolute easiest means of night kill manipulation on the table, and I am not inclined to bite. I think Glorfindel is the carrot, and either Epignosis or Sloonei is dangling that carrot.
I could see this as a strategy that scum Epi would use. Given how tentative so many reads in this game feel, it probably wouldn't be too hard to tip things in any direction right now if the baddies want to do that, and if they're actively involved then that is what they want to do right now. Given this and my sudden town read on Glorf, I'm loosening up on the good vibes I got from Epi last night.
3J manufactures a reason to suspect me (as I don't believe he really does), and you "could see this as a strategy that scum Epi would use."

Super.

Tell me- when I am bad, what strategies are off the table?
I think he suspects you. He is currently voting for you and this looks like a genuine thought process. I can see it as something you'd do, yes. I'm not saying I'm convinced of anything. This is not a crusade. Just keeping an open mind. You've said yourself, somewhere, I think it was in Red vs. Blue that most of those numerous banners of yours have come from scum performances. You're a crafty baddie. The only strategies I'd take off the table for you are things that skirt or break the rules of the game. Take it as a compliment.

You think he genuinely thinks I'm bad? I don't. I know 3J. We go way back.

He voted me because I wasn't on here at all. Then he voted like fourteen other people. Then I logged on and went off to do other things, and I guarantee you he saw me online and voted for me again.

That is what I believe his thought process to be. He can state otherwise.

If you will, describe how you arrived at the conclusion that this was his "genuine thought process" (your words).

You are correct about me. I won't break the rules, but I also won't lie about real life. I don't consider either of those things strategies, but rather "cheating" and "being unfair," respectively.

Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I probably won't end up reading through your posts, Sloonei.
I got my hopes up. Will you at least read this one and the links contained therein?
I read it.

I don't care that you ask questions. I didn't care for the timing of your question, as though I had a planned answer or something. A backup, as it were. You were setting me up.
It was timed that way because it was the first post of the day. What was I even setting you up for? I'm asking you to name suspects. How is that a setup? That's what this game is.

You gave me no opportunity to reevaluate. I timed my case against MacDougall so that no one could change a night action before the post. I think were high on coincidence and sprang to incriminate me.

Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I probably won't end up reading through your posts, Sloonei.
I got my hopes up. Will you at least read this one and the links contained therein?

I read it.

I don't care that you ask questions. I didn't care for the timing of your question, as though I had a planned answer or something. A backup, as it were. You were setting me up.

Sloonei wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Let's review some of Zebra's strongest stances taken in this game:

~ Ricochet is bad.

~ Elohcin is good.

~ MovingPictures07 is bad.

I have spent the whole game thinking she looked genuine in her incorrectness, and I was willing to forgive. I ask myself now though, especially in the wake of Mac dying, whether I was being too easy on her. Zebra by her very nature as a player is very assertive about her manner of conveying her reads whether they are real or fake. That assertiveness is easy to mistake for sincerity, which is her best skill as a player.

Now we have Epignosis going after Mac right before his death in a way that perfectly recalls the circumstances earlier in the game, to the point that coincidence appears less likely than intent. I think motel room was making a valid inference when he suggested this first, and it was my immediate reaction to the reveal of Mac's death. Now, consider the most likely impact of a MacDougall death -- Glorfindel gets wasted today. It's the absolute easiest means of night kill manipulation on the table, and I am not inclined to bite. I think Glorfindel is the carrot, and either Epignosis or Sloonei is dangling that carrot.
I could see this as a strategy that scum Epi would use. Given how tentative so many reads in this game feel, it probably wouldn't be too hard to tip things in any direction right now if the baddies want to do that, and if they're actively involved then that is what they want to do right now. Given this and my sudden town read on Glorf, I'm loosening up on the good vibes I got from Epi last night.

3J manufactures a reason to suspect me (as I don't believe he really does), and you "could see this as a strategy that scum Epi would use."

Super.

Tell me- when I am bad, what strategies are off the table?

At least not today or tomorrow.

I probably won't end up reading through your posts, Sloonei.

You've never seen me bad?

That's something else.

Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Epi, what are your thoughts at the outset of the sixth day of this mafia game?

Don't hold out on us.
My vote is currently for you. I will accumulate more thoughts later.

The way you pressed me immediately after Mac's death gave me the impression that you killed him. The fact that you acted ignorant of the timing regarding PMs and so forth only deepens the impression.
Okay. You are reading into things that are not there in this matter.

Perhaps. I'm not on a crusade. But I am going to read your posts more thoroughly.

Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Epi, what are your thoughts at the outset of the sixth day of this mafia game?

Don't hold out on us.

My vote is currently for you. I will accumulate more thoughts later.

The way you pressed me immediately after Mac's death gave me the impression that you killed him. The fact that you acted ignorant of the timing regarding PMs and so forth only deepens the impression.

Sloonei wrote:Epi, what are your thoughts at the outset of the sixth day of this mafia game?

Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Epi, who you gonna vote for now that Mr Mac is dead?
I don't know. I hate feeling confident about something and it blowing up.

Why are you asking me this?

Did you think I wouldn't ever get around to finding a different person to vote for?

You just got my nod of disapproval.
I am asking because it's quiet in here. I want someone to say something. Thanks for saying something.
So are you looking at me now? No one's really made any case against me yet, just minor grumblings here and there.
It struck me as opportunistic that my suspect died right when I came down on him, you agreed with me, and then he died, and then you're asking me what my backup plan is, as though I have one.

That's calculated business there.
Is it? You think I was sitting here watching the World Series with half an eye on this thread, saw you say something about Mac, and then at the last moment overrode my team's nightkill target just to spin something against you at the start of the day?
No. That would have been impossible. Night actions were due at 8pm EST.

My comments were after that. Purposefully after that- so that nobody could change anything based on what I said.

You were the first one to react to Mac's death and then you asked me who I was voted for right out of the gate, as though I knew. That's not something I'm going to let pass.
I think you interpreted my question different than how I meant it. I was literally just trying to ask you for reads. There was nothing more to it.
The question still stands.

As does the answer.

Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Epi, who you gonna vote for now that Mr Mac is dead?
I don't know. I hate feeling confident about something and it blowing up.

Why are you asking me this?

Did you think I wouldn't ever get around to finding a different person to vote for?

You just got my nod of disapproval.
I am asking because it's quiet in here. I want someone to say something. Thanks for saying something.
So are you looking at me now? No one's really made any case against me yet, just minor grumblings here and there.
It struck me as opportunistic that my suspect died right when I came down on him, you agreed with me, and then he died, and then you're asking me what my backup plan is, as though I have one.

That's calculated business there.
Is it? You think I was sitting here watching the World Series with half an eye on this thread, saw you say something about Mac, and then at the last moment overrode my team's nightkill target just to spin something against you at the start of the day?

No. That would have been impossible. Night actions were due at 8pm EST.

My comments were after that. Purposefully after that- so that nobody could change anything based on what I said.

You were the first one to react to Mac's death and then you asked me who I was voted for right out of the gate, as though I knew. That's not something I'm going to let pass.

Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Epi, who you gonna vote for now that Mr Mac is dead?
I don't know. I hate feeling confident about something and it blowing up.

Why are you asking me this?

Did you think I wouldn't ever get around to finding a different person to vote for?

You just got my nod of disapproval.
I am asking because it's quiet in here. I want someone to say something. Thanks for saying something.
So are you looking at me now? No one's really made any case against me yet, just minor grumblings here and there.

It struck me as opportunistic that my suspect died right when I came down on him, you agreed with me, and then he died, and then you're asking me what my backup plan is, as though I have one.

That's calculated business there.

Sloonei wrote:Epi, who you gonna vote for now that Mr Mac is dead?

I don't know. I hate feeling confident about something and it blowing up.

Why are you asking me this?

Did you think I wouldn't ever get around to finding a different person to vote for?

You just got my nod of disapproval.

Well then.

Quin wrote:I thought we established BWT and Mac had the same amount of votes when Eloh voted.

I'm talking about the final vote. She voted bwt previously, but then changed to Scotty.

*Raises pitchfork*

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