The Syndicate

You all are killing me.

Ain't hard guys. No need to fight.

My question wasn't rhetorical.

Epignosis wrote:Without looking at the front page, how many roles are there that can escape a lynch? Go.

Who is looking at the front page?

Without looking at the front page, how many roles are there that can escape a lynch? Go.

Epignosis wrote:There's more shortsightedness here than in a obstetrician's office from The Shire.

My joke would have been more effective had I gone with "optometrist's office," but I'm not a doctor.

There's more shortsightedness here than in a obstetrician's office from The Shire.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:Let's follow the logic, Epignosis.

Your claim: Nerolunar and chaindeath are trying to get through the "home stretch" intact to win the game, which is why Nero is holding his vote on Dom.

Implication: This can only make sense if Dom is town. False. See below.

External fact: Epignosis has been inclined to read Elohcin as town.

External fact: From Epignosis's perspective, he is also town (hypothetically speaking, as he must convey himself here).

Implication: If his accusation of Nero is valid, then that means Epignosis, Elohcin, and Dom are all town.

Implication: Those three being town leaves only the following three to be cops: Soneji, chaindeath, Nerolunar -- unless a new name is incorporated from the trusted group (S~V~S, Sloonei, Turnip Head, Prisoner).

External fact: Before choosing Turnip Head, Epi asked me incredulously if Soneji is suddenly one of the trusted people.

If he and chain are trying to hold it together now and instead lynch Dom to win it, then there are no townies left (unless you accuse a trusted player). If Dom is town and you're town, then Elo cannot be town.
This implies Soneji is trusted.

Implication: He didn't realize his goof, and then he had to fill the gap with someone from the trusted group. Epignosis chose Turnip Head.

External fact: Epignosis had made no mention prior of any meaningful suspicion of Turnip Head being a cop. It only happened just then. And I still have none.

Implication: He made it up and does not believe it.

Implication: He's lying about his read on Turnip Head.

Implication: He's lying about the mindset that brough him to that read on Turnip Head (derived from the accusation against Nero).

Implication: He doesn't believe in his own accusation of Nero.

Implication: He's a cop.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:And if Epi does think Dom is a cop, then what sense does it make to accuse Nero of meekly avoiding bussing chaindeath if he'd just be bussing Dom instead?

None of this adds up.

Not all cops are created equal. One is responsible for extra arrest attempts. One isn't responsible for anything. When I look for bussing attempts, I look at the value of the role power in question when I'm making a judgment.

Time to cook.

I'm not pushing Turnip Head as a cop. I was accepting the premises you put on the table. I don't agree with one of them. One of them I'm questioning. One is gospel.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:Epi's play in this phase has been suspicious enough that I'd feel just as comfortable lynching him. He put Nero in a lose-lose position, made an accusation that logically cannot even work with his claimed "reads", and then started talking nonsense when called out for it.

Lose-lose situations. You like those.

"If you are good and Eloh is good and Dom is good, who is the cop team?"

Was the movie any good?

Prisoner 509378 wrote:I'm in a movie theater. I'll be back with time to spare. Y'all should talk about whether Epi should go now or later.

I hope your movie is better than your most recent posts.

"Exactly nothing."

Okay then.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:Oh please, pray tell? What is S~V~S's role?

You don't believe Turnip Head is a cop, which means you are still left with Dom as a cop, which means your accusation of Nero makes no sense.

I believe S~V~S is not a fighter.

And my accusation of Nero is just fine, thanks.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:Epi, what you just asserted Nero is doing is impossible unless you're willing to call Elohcin a cop.
Impossible? As in, "under no circumstances whatsoever?"
If he and chain are trying to hold it together now and instead lynch Dom to win it, then there are no townies left (unless you accuse a trusted player). If Dom is town and you're town, then Elo cannot be town.
Soneji is a trusted player now?
I didn't say that. What cop team is there if you, Eloh, and Dom are all town?
chaindeath, Nerolunar, Soneji, and Turnip Head.
Yeah you screwed up. Oops!

You're only trying to appeal to S~V~S at this point. You don't believe TH is bad. You're obvious and you hate it.

No, I don't believe Turnip Head is bad. I don't believe S~V~S is either (in fact, I think I have her role pegged).

Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:Epi, what you just asserted Nero is doing is impossible unless you're willing to call Elohcin a cop.
Impossible? As in, "under no circumstances whatsoever?"
If he and chain are trying to hold it together now and instead lynch Dom to win it, then there are no townies left (unless you accuse a trusted player). If Dom is town and you're town, then Elo cannot be town.
Soneji is a trusted player now?
I didn't say that. What cop team is there if you, Eloh, and Dom are all town?

chaindeath, Nerolunar, Soneji, and Turnip Head.

Nerolunar wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Nerolunar wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:Nero, what is your answer to Epi's chaindeath vote?
Its very clever. I think he wants to provoke a reaction from me to try to shift the wagon back on me. I have two choices:

1) Vote for Chaindeath, decreasing the lead on Dom and splitting the wagon. Not a good choice.
2) Not vote for Chaindeath and get accused by Epi for being indecisive, probably causing votes to come back on me. Epi will say something like: "There is a wagon for chaindeath now, why don´t you vote for it? This is what you have been waiting for." and frame me when I don´t.

So far Im keeping my vote on Dom. I don´t want Epi to manipulate me.
Nerolunar: I've been trying to lynch chaindeath for days but no one will vote for him.
Epignosis: Let's lynch chaindeath.
Nerolunar: No. I don't want you to manipulate me. We can't split the wagon.

You and chaindeath are teammates trying to hold it together for the home stretch. You don't really want chaindeath lynched, and your vote on Dom isn't from belief that he is bad, it's based on not "splitting the wagon." But since when have you ever been concerned with a bandwagon staying together?

Prisoner, I read your review. I still see kid gloves. Nerolunar's refusal to vote chaindeath now and his reasons for refusing tell me his chaindeath "suspicion" is a sham.
This is exactly what I knew would happen.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:Epi, what you just asserted Nero is doing is impossible unless you're willing to call Elohcin a cop.
Impossible? As in, "under no circumstances whatsoever?"
If he and chain are trying to hold it together now and instead lynch Dom to win it, then there are no townies left (unless you accuse a trusted player). If Dom is town and you're town, then Elo cannot be town.

Soneji is a trusted player now?

Prisoner 509378 wrote:Epi, what you just asserted Nero is doing is impossible unless you're willing to call Elohcin a cop.

Impossible? As in, "under no circumstances whatsoever?"

Nerolunar wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:Nero, what is your answer to Epi's chaindeath vote?
Its very clever. I think he wants to provoke a reaction from me to try to shift the wagon back on me. I have two choices:

1) Vote for Chaindeath, decreasing the lead on Dom and splitting the wagon. Not a good choice.
2) Not vote for Chaindeath and get accused by Epi for being indecisive, probably causing votes to come back on me. Epi will say something like: "There is a wagon for chaindeath now, why don´t you vote for it? This is what you have been waiting for." and frame me when I don´t.

So far Im keeping my vote on Dom. I don´t want Epi to manipulate me.

Nerolunar: I've been trying to lynch chaindeath for days but no one will vote for him.
Epignosis: Let's lynch chaindeath.
Nerolunar: No. I don't want you to manipulate me. We can't split the wagon.

You and chaindeath are teammates trying to hold it together for the home stretch. You don't really want chaindeath lynched, and your vote on Dom isn't from belief that he is bad, it's based on not "splitting the wagon." But since when have you ever been concerned with a bandwagon staying together?

Prisoner, I read your review. I still see kid gloves. Nerolunar's refusal to vote chaindeath now and his reasons for refusing tell me his chaindeath "suspicion" is a sham.

Let's see.

chaindeath

I didn't concede shit. I did have to go help a brotha host just now. Also beer.

S~V~S wrote:Yeah one more fucking stupid thing I've done. Thanks for reminding me of that

Never stupid. Always funny.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Tinfoil theory that I want see come to fruition: the Prisoner is an insider working foe the cops. His role in this game was to take the families down from the inside. Like Leo. He has been steering us all in the wrong direction since he showed up. Like Leo.
I've thought a little about how awesome it would be if I was a convincted serial killer and y'all paroled me.

It's happened before. Ask S~V~S.

Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:As of this moment, Sloonei, I'm not leaving Nerolunar until I hear from him. And even then might not. I would be willing to shift to chaindeath or Soneji. Those are my three bigs.
I wasn't talking to you.

Well ouch.

As of this moment, Sloonei, I'm not leaving Nerolunar until I hear from him. And even then might not. I would be willing to shift to chaindeath or Soneji. Those are my three bigs.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:You all go ahead and lynch me. And lose.
Right.

As if Epignosis would throw away a very real chance at his second-ever civilian win in a full game without putting up a fight.

Die.
I honestly don't get it. Is it incorrect? I think you'd said before that it had only happened once (and this isn't a backhanded comment, I've only won one game on The Syndicate).

I've won as a civilian multiple times by now. I did spent my first year of Mafia only ever winning as bad, however.

Talking Heads. Don't know what I ever did to deserve that win.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:You all go ahead and lynch me. And lose.
Right.

As if Epignosis would throw away a very real chance at his second-ever civilian win in a full game without putting up a fight.

Die.

"Second-ever."

Though I guess some people will win.

You all go ahead and lynch me. And lose.

Nerolunar has gone to bed. I want full responses to what I've said. Nerolunar should be beyond willing to lynch chaindeath right now, but he's not. I want answers.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Nerolunar and chaindeath are both cops. Nerolunar says he wants chaindeath lynched but has exhibited little effort to that end. chaindeath has voted Nerolunar twice, but exhibited no effort to that end. Neither one is making a strong effort against the other. At this stage of things, why aren't they at each others' throats?
Who are their team mates?

This is GTH even if I don't like it, isn't it?

Very well.

Soneji and Dom.

S~V~S wrote:Epi, your thoughts on Dom & Eloh?

I've said I don't think Eloh is bad, though the numbers may suggest otherwise. She likes BTSC too much to abandon a game in which she has it.

Dom is making an effort but still looks lost. I'd call that acting.

Nerolunar and chaindeath are both cops. Nerolunar says he wants chaindeath lynched but has exhibited little effort to that end. chaindeath has voted Nerolunar twice, but exhibited no effort to that end. Neither one is making a strong effort against the other. At this stage of things, why aren't they at each others' throats?

Nerolunar wrote:Linki - Epi I have been trying. After realizing it was not going to happen I started to bandwagon more and leave Chaindeath for when people were ready to lynch him. Or well, not leave him entirely as I have voted for him a few times at the beginning of day phases, but when no support came I have been switching to other wagons. my "against wasting votes" ideal came to fruition a few days in.

Epi what do you read Chaindeath as? Which possible scumteam combination do you think is the truth?

How did you start bandwagoning? You have never voted for a single lynched person. Your Day 6 vote was for sig, all by yourself. That was the Day ika got lynched with eight votes (whom you voted for Day 2). Boomslang had six votes. The Day prior you voted Boomslang, but you didn't vote for him Day 6.

I don't see how you throw up your hands on your top suspect only to say you started bandwagoning...when you never bandwagoned a Day in this thing.

I wanted sig lynched for ages, but I'm not going to make that happen by not convincing people to vote him. It eventually happened, even though the result wasn't what I wanted. If chaindeath is your top suspect, then why haven't you tried to get support for a lynch against him?

Nerolunar wrote:Linki - Epi even though my vote history speaks differently Chaindeath has been a major scum read for me through this game. I am against wasting votes so my final votes have not been on Chaindeath that many times as there was no support for it.

That is not the conclusion I drew from my vote analysis of you.

Why haven't you campaigned harder to get chaindeath lynched?

Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The chaindeath/Nero pairing is doubtful.
I don't agree. Why do you think this?
For some time I did suspect Nero might be distancing/bussing chaindeath for most of the game, but as it has progressed I have lost that feeling. chaindeath's own treatment of Nero especially often seems OMGUS/NO U in nature, and given his newness (I am still willing to call him a new player) I find that a natural reaction to someone giving him a ton of crap regardless of his alignment. If Nero is a cop then chaindeath makes perfect sense as his long term scapegoat, much like people have accused you of doing with sig.

I don't get that impression. Nerolunar voted chaindeath once- Day 1, and Nerolunar voted late. chaindeath has voted Nerolunar twice: Day 3 (third vote), when sig already had four votes, and right now when Nerolunar has a large lead. What people post and how those same people vote tell a story.

I think calling a Nerolunar / chaindeath pairing "doubtful" is a mistake.

The chaindeath/Nero pairing is doubtful.

I don't agree. Why do you think this?

I went through Nerolunar's votes. No context- just votes.

chaindeath
2
Scotty (11), Nerolunar (20) 7%

Diiny lynched.

++++

ika
9
Quin (5), Nerolunar (6), agleaminranks (11), Soneji (12), Serge (14), RadicalFuzz (16), Enrique (23), Long Con (28), sig (29) 31%

RadicalFuzz lynched.

++++

No vote Day 3.

Long Con lynched.

++++

sig
3
Nerolunar (6), Epignosis (10), Metalmarsh89 (17) 12%

agleaminranks lynched.

++++

Boomslang
4
Prisoner 920077 (17), Nerolunar (24), S~V~S (30), Prisoner 740359 (31) 11%

Dragon D. Luffy lynched.

++++

sig
1
Nerolunar (4) 5%

ika lynched.

++++

Boomslang
5
Epignosis (8), Nerolunar (9), Soneji (11), thellama73 (13), sig (15) 25%

Turnip Head not lynched.

++++

No vote Day 8.

Boomslang lynched.

++++

Dom (Draconus)
3
Nerolunar (13), Turnip Head (15), Sloonei (16) 18%

Scotty lynch.

++++

Takeaways:

1. Nerolunar has not voted for a lynched person the Day that person was lynched.
2. Nerolunar has voted for people, but did not do so on the Day those people were lynched (ika, Boomslang).
3. Nerolunar has voted two people twice (Boomslang and sig), but never anyone more than twice.
4. Nerolunar has always voted first or second for the person (as far as the final tally goes).

None of these are opinions, but facts.

Now for inferences:

Facts 1 and 2 indicate a penchant for keeping his hands clean. For all the instances of the term "avoid" in relation to Day 2 and me, I can't recall that verb ever being used to describe Nerolunar. However, fact 3 (exacerbated by Fact 2) indicates a lack of personal conviction on Nerolunar's part. Fact 4 indicates that Nerolunar has never tried to save anyone with his vote. The voting differentials indicate that there has never been any real pressure to save a cop except Day 2, when Nerolunar voted ika. To be fair, Nerolunar's vote was on ika before Fuzz had any votes. I don't know how much can be read into that, since Nerolunar couldn't save Fuzz any more than he already was.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:Whoever is town, this been the scummiest town I've ever seen. Epi cried about the votes on him, they moved immediately, and it's still crickets.

I'm here keeping up, but I'm doing other shit. Like cooking lunch and eating. In a little bit I'm going to be painting.

Sorry I don't operate on a strict timetable like you're accustomed to, prisoner.

No. If my lynch is inevitable, then I'm not going to spend my last two days of spring break losing. I have other things I would rather do.

Nerolunar wrote:We should also be careful of bussing and new wagons popping up. There is probably going to be an attempted save at some point.

Read: We must regard any alternative lynches as save attempts because Epignosis is bad, and we must regard any additional votes on Epignosis as bussing because Epignosis is bad.

Way to think things through.

Nerolunar

Soneji wrote:Epi seems to have a unique relation with certain words, cop-like even. I didn't avoid the gun-fight between Ika and Fuzz, this Zebra just came out of nowhere and I had to defend myself! I didn't relentlessly pursue this man who had barely any connection with the mafia just due to the numerous false allegations hes had in the past, he really looked dirty this time! I swear!

Epignosis

I didn't avoid the lynch. I wasn't home. I thought I was going to have to save myself. Turns out I didn't. I didn't tunnel sig in the sense that I did nothing else, but I did relentlessly pursue him.

Tell me, what relation with certain words would a cop have?

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Site cracking up for anybody else?
I must have missed this. Is this still happening?

Everything has been fine since. I can't speak for anyone else.

But Epignosis is going to have to start tomorrow, because he has other things to do right now.

chaindeath

Epignosis is starting with you.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I'm not going to waste my time talking about me. I know my role. Even this fuck-up has got better shit to do.
Good call. Please talk about non-Epignosis people as much as you possibly can.

I will.

I'm not going to waste my time talking about me. I know my role. Even this fuck-up has got better shit to do.

S~V~S wrote:You NEVER give a shit how you ,or your votes, look when you're civ. This aspect bothers me. I did not think that bad Epi would do something like continuously suspect someone who regularly gets mislynched, but what do I know?

I don't give a shit how I look or how my votes look, civilian or bad. I can weasel my way out if I'm bad. However, compare first six or eight game phase Epi to Endgame Epi and see what's different. Look at Harry Potter, for example. Or The Hobbit. Or Frisky Dingo. Not giving a shit is easy when you never know if you're going to be killed. When you're a lynch or two away from winning or losing? Well that's different.

Syndicate is fucked up.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:The accusations ended when you didn't grant the obvious that your Zebra vote is a bad look. Everything further is interactive analysis drawn from the new knowledge that you're a cop. If you keep talking we'll get more information, so by all means keep at it.

Oh, I see. Foregone conclusions. Seeing who will jump at it. Mind games and what not.

Nah, you're just making another mistake.

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