The Syndicate

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:If a team ties, I call it in favor of the mafia. That's just me though.

It depends for me on the format. In a large role madness game, I probably wouldn't end it if there was a mechanical chance that the baddies could lose (perhaps even if the civilians were outnumbered...)

But in a heist game, even numbers is game over, baddies win.

Absolutely- in big games I usually have some mechanic to handle that. In a Heist? No.

If a team ties, I call it in favor of the mafia. That's just me though.

speedchuck wrote:I played a terrible game till final day. Thanks for not lynching me at least.

We need to learn to do better as civilians. You were playing your heart out, and Sorsha was moving (I didn't know this). I should have roared S~V~S down when I caught whiff of her Mafia scent but I don't like getting in back and forths with her.

The Dom ruse was trickier (amazingly, he says it wasn't a ruse, what the hell).

Still- I should have recognized your background and said, "speedchuck is good."

So damn me too.

I made a great case on S~V~S, and MP comes in here raging bull at me. Man come on. Do you even read what I write?

I am happy that I no longer ever have to consider S~V~S' emotional bullshit.

Checks cashed.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Sorsha hasn't voted and everyone has piled onto her except Dom.

That's worth talking about.

Yeah, that's true.

It's worth talking about. I just really don't know what to say.

MovingPictures07 wrote:And if you're bad?

I did not play well.

Sorsha hasn't voted and everyone has piled onto her except Dom.

That's worth talking about.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Well this was a disappointing day period, save for speedchuck's contributions.

I don't know what I can even do at this point other than hope it's Sorsha.

It's probably not, but that's just how things have gone this time.

If Dom fabricated his DF reaction, it was a good move and I approve.

If S~V~S pretended to leave in a huff, then I know something about how she engages suspicion that will be useful to me in the future (and future attempts on her part will be utterly disregarded).

If speedchuck is bad, he's done a good job acting like he isn't of late.

I have no problem losing to a mafia that played well (see FZ.'s latest win). I have a problem losing when civilians act a fool.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I don't like like this at all. Maybe it is Epi and SVS.

Maybe it's Maybelline.

Culpability doesn't matter at this stage. Getting it right does.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Epi, do you worry that you're giving too much re: S~V~S and Dom for the reasons you're clearing them?

I do.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Epi, can you walk me through your thought process a bit more on your voting history? I can read what you've thrown down, but I'm not sure I understand the progression.

I really can't. I think I've overextended myself and everything is a blur. I even have to look to see whom the hell I even voted for.

I voted speedchuck to contribute to the tie (as G-Man wanted). That vote was for speedchuck, if that's worth anything to you.

I voted nutella because I apparently always think she's bad now and haven't learned my lesson.

I made a case on S~V~S, which I still think has merit on its own, but my back-and-forths with S~V~S usually indicate we both don't know what we're doing.

DF was a bad boy.

MovingPictures07 wrote:If you don't think S~V~S or Dom is mafia either, why offer it to me?

I'm more confident in you than in them.

Confident in your alignment, not your ability.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:You are not confirmed, but given the ratio of previous installments (two civilian power roles vs. one mafia power role), I'd say it's highly unlikely you are bad.

Oh, was my alignment not confirmed when Quin's first role card flipped? I didn't even check, I just assumed it was.

Well, the post said Quin was a vanilla civilian, so I'm taking things with a grain of salt here.

You are not confirmed, but given the ratio of previous installments (two civilian power roles vs. one mafia power role), I'd say it's highly unlikely you are bad.

I tell you what, MP.

For better or worse, I'll do the same thing I did with G-Man. I don't think you are mafia, and I know I'm not, so this is a safe(r) approach. I will put my vote wherever you do (provided of course it's not on me). That makes your vote worth two. And if we're wrong today

I'm done engaging with you. You've made up your mind. You're wrong. If you are a civilian, you will lose (again) in Lost (again).

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:This is just like what you did earlier when you argued with G-Man, who was confirmed fucking town I might add, for seemingly no reason to sort anyone out. You keep pushing back against me using emotional manipulative statements saying "you're going to lose it all for town hurrr de durrr". That's scummy ass behavior.

I don't care what behavior it is. You come in here all high and mighty and want to lynch me over someone with 19 posts?

Fuck out of here.

Yes, I do, because I've pointed out PLENTY of interpretations of your posts and behavior that make you seem real damn bad. Sorsha doesn't have that. She's a player just like everyone else; if she has just 19 posts, then she has just 19 posts. They have content in them too to be analyzed.

You just can't stand the fact that I find you more suspicious than someone who didn't play the game. Get over it. You're suspicious.

Sorsha doesn't have that because she doesn't have anything.

I don't care if I'm suspicious. I'm not bad.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Seriously Epi, stop preemptively blaming me. You're being a real something right now and it's pissing me off.

Then lay off me and lynch somebody who is bad. Don't call my game "ass" when you are sucking ass right now yourself coming for me.

THEN STOP BLAMING ME FOR EVERYTHING. I've come in here and was nice enough to replace. I performed all of that work trying to sort everyone out. You're not even doing anything. Your game is ass and has been all game. Deal with it.

I will blame you if you lead a lynch on me. That's not for EVERYTHING OMG!!!!!!!!1!!!!!

Just for blowing my perfect streak in LOST Again games.

I don't care that you were nice enough to replace.

I'm not even doing anything.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I cannot fathom any member of the town just going "ehhh whatever, I don't care, I just don't want to lose to the inactive scum" at this point in the game. Not even Epi.

Fathom it, bitches.

MovingPictures07 wrote:This is just like what you did earlier when you argued with G-Man, who was confirmed fucking town I might add, for seemingly no reason to sort anyone out. You keep pushing back against me using emotional manipulative statements saying "you're going to lose it all for town hurrr de durrr". That's scummy ass behavior.

I don't care what behavior it is. You come in here all high and mighty and want to lynch me over someone with 19 posts?

Fuck out of here.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Seriously Epi, stop preemptively blaming me. You're being a real something right now and it's pissing me off.

Then lay off me and lynch somebody who is bad. Don't call my game "ass" when you are sucking ass right now yourself coming for me.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Explain to me, Epi, how it makes sense to go with a shot in the dark with Sorsha then (since you seem to think that's what she is) OVER the person you just said above "I think you're bad, but you're talking, so whatever".

Bullshit.

See above.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I gave a full ISO of Sorsha on the other page. I analyzed her voting history. There's enough there to at least try to analyze here, and I don't think she's bad. But if she is bad, we can figure it out after we lynch someone else who's been more involved. Fuck this voting inactives shit. That's a cop-out right now, Epi, and it's so indicative of your entire attitude all game: You've gone after everyone when it was convenient to do so. You're not going after anyone with an attempt to sort them.

You're bad. Let's lynch Epi NOW.

Took all of two minutes, didn't it?

It doesn't matter how long it took me.

If you wanted to crusade against inactives, you should have done it before a critical LYLO stage in the game.

It's not a crusade against inactives. There's one inactive. If you vote me out, and Sorsha is bad, you have handed the win to somebody who didn't even friggin play. That's going to be on you.

You going to eat a hat if you're wrong again?

MovingPictures07 wrote:I gave a full ISO of Sorsha on the other page. I analyzed her voting history. There's enough there to at least try to analyze here, and I don't think she's bad. But if she is bad, we can figure it out after we lynch someone else who's been more involved. Fuck this voting inactives shit. That's a cop-out right now, Epi, and it's so indicative of your entire attitude all game: You've gone after everyone when it was convenient to do so. You're not going after anyone with an attempt to sort them.

You're bad. Let's lynch Epi NOW.

Took all of two minutes, didn't it?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I also don't trust any of you all as far as I can throw you, but I don't think lynching the less-than-active Dom or Sorsha is the way to go. I see nothing in Sorsha's post history that seems that scummy, and I don't like how speedchuck is behaving this phase.

I'm considering all of you, but I still think it's Epi and speedchuck. Just look at the way they've interacted with DF and each other all game.

The object of the game for mafia is to not "seem scummy." She doesn't have anything that "seems scummy" because she doesn't have anything.

You are so fucking bad.

You are so fucking wrong.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I also don't trust any of you all as far as I can throw you, but I don't think lynching the less-than-active Dom or Sorsha is the way to go. I see nothing in Sorsha's post history that seems that scummy, and I don't like how speedchuck is behaving this phase.

I'm considering all of you, but I still think it's Epi and speedchuck. Just look at the way they've interacted with DF and each other all game.

The object of the game for mafia is to not "seem scummy." She doesn't have anything that "seems scummy" because she doesn't have anything.

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Epignosis clearly doesn't give a fuck who goes as long as it's not him. He's not town.

Congrats on the loss.

Or the win. I really don't know.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Epignosis clearly doesn't give a fuck who goes as long as it's not him. He's not town.

Congrats on the loss.

Frankly, if you're bad speed, I'm cool with you winning. Sorsha and Dom aren't doing shit. It'll be yet another mark on The Syndicate where civilians do absolutely nothing and lose for other people.

Hopefully they're bad though.

speedchuck wrote:Can I get a meta-reference to you defending an AFK scummate? Maybe even 2 or 3?

Vocaroo is the only one I remember.

I had civilian BTSC with Made in a recent Burglary, but he never showed up and I got lynched.

speedchuck wrote:. . .

Alright.

And no use asking you who to vote for because if we are both town, Dom AND Sorsha would be scum. :P
I'll leave it on Sorsha for now, and hope that MP has some insight when he returns.

That is precisely what I was about to consider. Dom is smart enough to pull a gambit like that, and he's been acting clueless the entire time. I think Sorsha is the way to go for now.

speedchuck wrote:

Epignosis wrote:In the meantime, speedchuck- why are you voting me when your belief is that Sorsha is bad too and I'm throwing her under the bus?

If I vote sorsha, and she does happen to be your scummate:
Sorsha dies.
MP dies.

You easily glide to a speedchuck lynch without MP here.
Town loses.

It's also quite possible, as per your defense and MP's scumreads, that I'm wrong about Dom, that he is your teammate, and you are defending him.
Basically, I consider the Epi/Sorsha and Epi/Dom worlds to be more likely than the Sorsha/Dom. I think. I'm still prone to switching.

Again, I like you because you are talking.

Let's not vote each other. I'm not bad. I think you are, but I'm willing to lynch someone else before you.

If you aren't bad, then it would make sense to consider someone other than me.

In the meantime, speedchuck- why are you voting me when your belief is that Sorsha is bad too and I'm throwing her under the bus?

I need to look up something. Be back.

speedchuck wrote:I'm only saying that you're doing this because it's what you're doing.

speedchuck: Show me at least three instances in which you did this:

"Which means he's doing what I do near endgame. Making a bunch of inconvenient townfirms (SVS, you) and throwing his own inactive teammate under the bus to make his accusation against me legitimate."

speedchuck wrote:

Dom wrote:

speedchuck wrote:I can see why you are top FEB, Epi

You play a bad guy like I do.

what does this mean

Pretty sure Epi and Sorsha are the scum right now.

Which means he's doing what I do near endgame. Making a bunch of inconvenient townfirms (SVS, you) and throwing his own inactive teammate under the bus to make his accusation against me legitimate.
It's the very kind of thing I do as scum.

As for your other question, MP had you as the same color as me in his review. I was trying to figure out where his head was at.

linki: Ouch. I've never played a scum game on this site, Epi. I can't get in the hall of fame without playing here.

That's the stupidest strategy I ever heard.

Show me one time I have ever thrown an inactive teammate under the bus.

Guess what? It's never ever happened.

In Vocaroo I had one teammate: a2thezebra, who never even showed up. Got lynched Day 1. Guess what I did? Defended that motherfucker through song.

Then I went on to win by myself.

If you think I'm throwing Sorsha under the bus, you're a fool. But you're not a fool. I've been on a team with Sorsha. If anything, she tends to try to get me lynched when we're bad together.

speedchuck wrote:I don't drink coffee.

Then shame on you.

speedchuck wrote:I can see why you are top FEB, Epi

You play a bad guy like I do.

*scans for your name in the hall of fame*

Uh...

No I don't. I'm good at it.

speedchuck wrote:Voting Epi

Trying to wrap things up? Nah. Not going to happen.

I've got news for you.

Coffee...

speedchuck wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Ah.

I remember why I don't suspect Dom.

Dom wrote:

Quin wrote:

DFaraday wrote:Baddies are Quin, SVS, and either Chuck or Dom. *is strangled*

If you're town then the game is over so there was no need to say this. Eagerly awaiting a baddie flip.

You got some splainin' to do.

That was Dom's reaction to DFaraday showing up as Locke. If he already knew DFaraday was bad, I don't believe Dom would have posted that.

I literally don't understand Dom's post here in context. Could you elaborate, and explain why he wouldn't post that as scum?

The prevailing idea was that one of Quin or DFaraday had to be bad based on the distribution of power roles. Dom was around for the end of the Day and when DFaraday was temporarily shown to be a civilian, Dom went after Quin.

That kind of post in that exact window makes no sense if Dom already knows Quin is a civilian and DFaraday isn't.

speedchuck wrote:Dom has been asking where Sorsha is all game. Kinda strange. Most recently said he doubts Sorsha would be so absent as scum.

This might be a REALLY bad question for me to ask, but Epi: Why are you going after Sorsha before me? Any particular reason? I have a reason for asking this.

You're talking and she's not.

S~V~S wrote:Why? So the baddies could kill again the next night and game over?

The general strategy is to narrow down the pool.

With 5 alive, mafia kills, making the next Day phase 3-1. That makes the odds of getting it wrong 75%. Refraining from lynching means the mafia (presumably) kills, making it 2-1, which makes the odds of getting it wrong 67%.

I don't think a no lynch is necessary though- lynch Sorsha and then speedchuck.

So if I'm right about MP and S~V~S, then Sorsha and speedchuck are your mafia.

Ah.

I remember why I don't suspect Dom.

Dom wrote:

Quin wrote:

DFaraday wrote:Baddies are Quin, SVS, and either Chuck or Dom. *is strangled*

If you're town then the game is over so there was no need to say this. Eagerly awaiting a baddie flip.

You got some splainin' to do.

That was Dom's reaction to DFaraday showing up as Locke. If he already knew DFaraday was bad, I don't believe Dom would have posted that.

speedchuck wrote:Epi, I saw your post explaining it, but I didn't get it. In clear terms, why did SVS go from a possible vote from you to one of your townreads?

And secondly, what is your read on Dom? I'm somewhat surprised you'd suspect Sorsha over Dom.

S~V~S and I butt heads often and as a result of this particular butting I no longer think she's bad.

As for Dom and Sorsha, I need to read through their posts to draw a clear opinion. I haven't been diligent lately. They have a combined total of 56 posts, so this shouldn't be much of a task.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm not about to blow the endgame myself with tunnel vision, Epi, so you know I will give you a fair shake just like everyone else. I'm just calling shit like I see it, that's all.

I get that. I'd roll with S~V~S being good too (see our earlier dispute). That would leave you with three people to nab two mafia.

Who do you think they are?

Speedchuck and Sorsha.

Why's that?

Because I'm not bad you ninny.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm not about to blow the endgame myself with tunnel vision, Epi, so you know I will give you a fair shake just like everyone else. I'm just calling shit like I see it, that's all.

I get that. I'd roll with S~V~S being good too (see our earlier dispute). That would leave you with three people to nab two mafia.

Who do you think they are?

Speedchuck and Sorsha.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm not about to blow the endgame myself with tunnel vision, Epi, so you know I will give you a fair shake just like everyone else. I'm just calling shit like I see it, that's all.

I get that. I'd roll with S~V~S being good too (see our earlier dispute). That would leave you with three people to nab two mafia.