The Syndicate

One area I remain fuzzy on (heh) was the RadicalFuzz lynch. Even though I was here for it, I don't quite grasp how that really got going.

Jay, at the same time, I feel like a dick.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:09 pm
I am afraid the problem here is that JJJ fun isn't often compatible with everyone fun.

Lemme stop ya right there.

You are fun.

And more importantly, you have elevated mafia culture here to a level that nobody else has.

You have made me a better civilian...

...and you have made me a better mafia member because I often keep you around when I'm bad to work out how to outsmart you.

If that's not fun, I don't know what is.

I am talking about a very specific thing: A few people posting so much that others who have more limited schedules honestly- regardless of alignment- can't keep up and PLAY, and I believe reading all the posts is no different than seeing what everyone else did in a board game. I guess that, if you can't win without dominating the thread, are you really that good?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:15 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:11 pm 1. How many times have you dominated a thread as a civilian and lost?

Now don't concern yourself with losing. Instead, concern yourself with this:

2. How many civilians gave up because they couldn't keep up with you?

1. Considerably fewer than I've won.

2. A non-zero number. I'm sure if the general population here was asked that question, I'd see numerous hands raised. This is the argument I think has merit, not the one disputing that more activity is better than less activity for civilians in terms of win probability. I don't want people to have no fun. It is frustrating that my kind of fun doesn't seem to mesh with other people's fun. If I am winning a bunch of games and my own teammates don't enjoy the process, then it isn't worth it. There are multiple alternatives, and all of them ask me to have less fun.

You're a good man Jay. I made up Omerta to see what would happen if you only got four posts a Day. We only played it once.

I think economy in writing is a good thing anyway.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:03 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:01 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:00 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:47 pmListen more than you talk.

There's a place for that.

If everybody does it, there's no thread.

Listen more than you talk.

Not "not talk."

That's what I mean.

If everybody listens more than they talk, then the thread by nature must creep along at a snail's pace because everybody is too inclined to listen and too disinclined to speak. There must be something to listen to. I firmly believe that the listeners benefit from having at least one loudmouth, because the thread builds itself upon that content and the responses it facilitates. Without the loudmouth, we get the Gatsby game.

No, there are more than two people to talk. You can listen more than you talk if you have a group of 12 or 15. You don't need one or two loudmouths to win. They can be helpful sometimes, but take it from me, they can be garbage too.

How many times have you dominated a thread as a civilian and lost?

Now don't concern yourself with losing. Instead, concern yourself with this:

How many civilians gave up because they couldn't keep up with you?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:01 pm Is it harder to keep up in a Vocaroo game than in a text game? Absolutely.

Do I hear this crap in and after text games just the same? Absolutely.

I know you do.

What if everyone could keep pace with the thread though? What would happen?

How many times can you remember that someone said "Epignosis is quieter than usual?"

People have been saying that for literally years.

I made a reputation and when I go quiet, people assume I'm bad or up to something.

Well, I'm always up to something, but there you are.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:00 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:47 pmListen more than you talk.

There's a place for that.

If everybody does it, there's no thread.

Listen more than you talk.

Not "not talk."

Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:43 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:20 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:16 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:32 pm Your second scenario sounds just like Vocaroo Mafia 1.

Exactly.

Do you think I won Vocaroo Mafia I because thread activity was low?

Not to intervene too much in this discussion (just here to pick up the results for the HoF), but I think we all know how that game was lost, the answer being human idiocy. From what I can tell, the civilians eliminated such an element from this game rather early on.

You would have not won the endgame with me alive and informed as a tracker. As in, 0% odds. Alternatively, you would have had very diminished odds to win alongside a confirmed (outed) civilian and a strong (however misguided in general) profile of a hunter throughout the game in a last 3 scenario.

Yep.

And I completely defended you.

I think this is venturing too far into the reductive fallacy territory.

When I play, regardless of alignment, I read everything before I post almost all of the time.

In this format (and yes, I think it's a format thing), I would have a hard time doing that. If I got lynched because I preferred to CATCH UP and it left me out of some exclusive club, I would mutter a hex on all of you.

I can't tell you how many games I've hosted where some civilians gave up because they couldn't keep up.

And I don't want to know how many games I played where the same was true.

It was S~V~S who told me something that changed the way I operate as a civilian, and it was for the best. These might not be her exact words, and I haven't always followed them, but she said something like: Listen more than you talk.

I won a hell of a lot more as a civilian by watching than I did by talking.

That's a loose guideline, granted, because your activity is going to be relative to everyone else's. But me having a back and forth with DharmaHelper never did anybody any good. And this game makes me wonder how much damage my back-and-forths have caused.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:26 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:20 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:16 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:32 pm Your second scenario sounds just like Vocaroo Mafia 1.

Exactly.

Do you think I won Vocaroo Mafia I because thread activity was low?

It's not the sole reason you won, but it helped you. A more active thread facilitates a stronger civilian core (given enough opportunities with posts in the thread, they're going to tend to find each other more easily), and that will leave the people with no real civilian credit (such as but not limited to the guy with 20-some posts only providing half-relevant songs) exposed by process of elimination.

If you'd played in this game the exact same way you played in that one, you'd have been one of the people stuck in the POE pile as a candidate to be lynched.

If I played in this game the exact same way I played in that one, nothing I would have said would make any sense.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:16 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:32 pm Your second scenario sounds just like Vocaroo Mafia 1.

Exactly.

Do you think I won Vocaroo Mafia I because thread activity was low?

Maybe it's time for Omerta Mafia II.

Your second scenario sounds just like Vocaroo Mafia 1.

Even that took three hours to read.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:15 pm nah, ya'll are a bunch of babies.

Babies with limited time.

I didn't mean to start a row on the subject, and I didn't mean to imply that JJJ and dunya weren't instrumental in winning the game. I'm sorry if that's how I came across. I look forward to the day when I am bad and have to face a civilian dunya and a civilian 3J. That will be fun.

I only meant that some people could find it impossible to play the game. Hell, the only way I, the friggin host (not mafia!) was able to stay current was because snow killed work for three days, because I can't listen to posts at work. No puedo escuchar en el trabajo.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:30 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:13 pm or maybe you guys could just.... take all the constructive feedback to heart and learn from it

Truly, arguments about what makes the game fun or not fun -- those are meaningful and I will listen to them.

Good luck to anyone though trying to convince me that what dunya and I did in this game doesn't help civilians win the game. It isn't about voice versus text, it's about how the game of Mafia works on a message board forum.

Question: How would you have approached this game as a civilian if you had only thirty minutes a day to devote to it? Do you think you would get lynched far more easily than if you had more time?

"Attaining a state of currency"

I thought the civilians were going to be hosed in this game. I thought RadicalFuzz and Made gave a genuine effort.

But yes, the civilians nailed it.

My concern has to do with new players. If they can't keep up, that doesn't mean they are BAD.

It means they can't keep up.

I'd like an honest discussion about that is all.

Sloonei, you are a funny fellow.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:42 am As I see it:

Slow games are friendlier for people with less time. They're also friendlier for the bad guys. If I'm not a bad guy myself, fuck that.

What I am saying is this:

If you really want to hear what civilians have to say about this that and the other...

then don't make 70 posts for them to read / listen to.

Most of the time, those back and forth exchanges are shit anyway.

I am not criticizing your behavior or anyone ele's. Rather, I'm considering how civilians who are less inclined to be engaged can be engaged.

I was the host, and I could not keep up in this game.

Don't get me wrong. I think everyone should be active.

However, having two-three people gun the thread makes it hard for OTHER CIVILIANS to keep up.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:29 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:26 am I have never lost as mafia because of post counts.

I HAVE won before because civilians value post counts.

There are exceptions to every rule. If you judge mafia teams in general by your own achievements, I think you're making a mistake. Also, I consider you to be a very skilled bad guy. I have never seen you detonate a post count list by tripling or quadrupling second place.

All I mean is that, if I were a civilian in this game, I would have said to hell with it.

Too much empty space and redundant arguments. Too much back and forth.

I only mean that I could see a civilian shutting down and and not being productive simply from lack of time.

Civilians flooding the thread didn't win this game is all I mean.

How about this: The two power roles were Sloonei and JaggedJimmyJay...

...and both of them lived until the end.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:47 am I was on the other side too when the same thing wasted my team in Mountain Mafia. We didn't just lose that game because of balance problems. The civilians washed us out by playing as hard as they could. My entire team, including my postaholic ass, failed to find a place in the top ten of post count. We were exposed.

Spamming the thread just to assure the post count rockets isn't the method. The posts still have to have some kind of function. Even repetitive posts have an important function, and in this case it was teamwork.

I can agree that it might annoy civilians who can't keep the pace. It infuriates mafia who can't keep the pace.

I have never lost as mafia because of post counts.

I HAVE won before because civilians value post counts.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:31 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:26 am I complained about Dunia and Jay earlier with their close to 2 hours of content each per day phase, but now.... I really do think creating an atmosphere where the mafia members couldn't catch up was at least somewhat instrumental in this victory.

It's one of the easiest ways to filter out mafia members in any game. Vocaroo made it even more pronounced.

The faster the pace, the more difficult the game for the bad guys. It's just the way the game works.

I'm going to say this is the shittiest "method" I've ever witnessed in my life.

Just because it worked here doesn't mean it's good practice.

Some of you talked just to talk or say things other people said many times. As a host, I wanted to pull my hair out.

You run the risk of alienating civilians too.

Don't act like posting a lot makes you super civilians. That wasn't why you won here.

I liked how speedchuck was "Well I'm going to get rid of this country accent."

Then he speaks in a country accent.

You are country.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:51 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:49 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:44 pm Note: the first Vocaroo game here covered about 400 active posts and elapsed 5.5 hours recording time. If the averages hold, that would project to 21.5 hours recording time in this game.

I refuse to put this game into one video. I refuse.

I only let my kids play because I wasn't expecting so many fucking audio posts, and so much dead air from players.

Did they listen to everything???

No. There was no way. I was behind the entire time myself. You people are animals.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:44 pm Note: the first Vocaroo game here covered about 400 active posts and elapsed 5.5 hours recording time. If the averages hold, that would project to 21.5 hours recording time in this game.

I refuse to put this game into one video. I refuse.

I only let my kids play because I wasn't expecting so many fucking audio posts, and so much dead air from players.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:28 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:26 pm By the way, DrWilgy was active in BTSC.

However, he didn't ID himself. He went in as One-Shot Janitor and had RadicalFuzz talking about how great a friend DrWilgy is.

link?

It's a chatzy. Those conversations are long gone.

By the way, DrWilgy was active in BTSC.

However, he didn't ID himself. He went in as One-Shot Janitor and had RadicalFuzz talking about how great a friend DrWilgy is.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:23 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:22 pm Oh!

After I showed Tink she died for her actions, she said, "Well, that trick probably won't work again."

Girl is smart.

was she proud of herself? did you tell her we all love her and think she's amazing???? (except for the scum team....they got punk'd by an 8-yr old )

She already thinks too highly of herself. She knows what she did though.

Oh!

After I showed Tink she died for her actions, she said, "Well, that trick probably won't work again."

Girl is smart.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:05 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:02 pm Also, Vanilla Cop bitches. Learn to Google.

honestly, never seen this role before. I like it though, it's a weakened down version of the alignment cop. Nice.

The idea is that, if you assume, as Jay did, that there's two power roles for the civilians, and one for the mafia, then you are torn between lynching your civilian power role or the mafia power role. I was hoping it came to that, but it didn't.

A word on Tink lying.

That was entirely her idea.

She is a liar. She's gotten in trouble for that. Many times.

So when I explained how heists work, she of course HAD to lie about something.

She even explained it to me this way: "I have to lie so the superheroes don't die."

You got it, gal. You got it.

So she lied and claimed cop and picked speedchuck and that's my girl.

A liar at heart.

I have no idea where she gets it.

Also, Vanilla Cop bitches. Learn to Google.

Jack Benny (Sloonei)
Your money or your life? Just kidding, pal. You’ll stand there all day thinking it over. Say, what’s in that big vault of yours? No, no, I can assure you we are not interested in your money. Or your violin playing. But say, couldn’t you hide somebody in there to keep him safe? I’m sure you could! Trouble is, he couldn’t do much on the outside world if he’s trapped in there. Great! You can be the Civilian Jailor.

Fred Allen (JaggedJimmyJay)
Mr. Allen, you are a master ad-libber. You can find out when there’s a stowaway on a fifty-cent tour. And thanks to your Pasternak Factory Tested Pussy-Willow Mattress (which makes your back arch) and New York’s leading daily (that lines the bottom of your bird’s cage), you have an eye for bad sponsors and impostors You are the Vanilla Cop.

W.C. Fields (speedchuck)
You may hate children and you may hate dogs, but you aren’t a bad guy, are ya fella? Nah, you’re not. A guy who likes lemonade can’t be all that bad, now can he? The folks at home hope you like vanilla and civilians, because you are a Vanilla Civilian.

Freeman Gosden (Simon)
You Amos, and a Vanilla Civilian.

Charles Correll (Abigail)
You Andy. And a Vanilla Civilian.

Mel Blanc (dunya)
"Eh, what's up, doc?" You may be the man of a thousand voices, but you aren’t a doctor or anything of the sort. Mel, you’ve been a Maxwell automobile, a violin teacher, a parrot, a polar bear named Carmichael, and even a little Mexican, but this time around, you’re a Vanilla Civilian.

Dinah Shore (Elohcin)
Dinah Shore! You believe in the three Bs: Barrelhouse, Boogie-Woogie, and the Blues. You are “Mademoiselle Dinah ‘Diva’ Shore,” who starts a fire by rubbing two notes together! And on top of all that, you are a Vanilla Civilian!

Bob Hope (Spacedaisy)
Bob, you are a master of one-liners and self-depreciating humor. You are also a Vanilla Civilian.

George Burns (MovingPictures07)
Have a cigar, George. While college fraternities may not have appreciated you breaking up Guy Lombardo’s “Thirty Minutes of the Sweetest Music This Side of Heaven” with your routines, you eventually showed them! Still, you are but a Vanilla Civilian.

William Conrad (Marmot)
"I'm that man, Matt Dillon, United States Marshal -- the first man they look for and the last they want to meet. It's a chancy job, and it makes a man watchful . . . and a little lonely." You are the voice of Marshall Matt Dillon, who may make Gunsmoke, but you do so as a Vanilla Civilian.

Virginia Gregg (Kylemii)
You’ve met Sam Spade, Joe Friday, Marshall Matt Dillon, and even Jack Benny. You’re a real Jill-of-all-Trades, which makes you the perfect Vanilla Civilian.

Mafia
Orson Welles (DrWilgy)
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows! And so do you, because you are the Mafia One-shot Janitor.

Edgar Bergen (Made)
You are the puppeteer in charge of Charlie McCarthy and Mortimer Snerd. You are a witty ventriloquist and capable of making other people look guilty. You are a Mafia Goon.

Gracie Allen (RadicalFuzz)
You can’t figure out if you are George Burns’ straight man or not. One thing is for sure- you aren’t playing straight. You are a Mafia Goon.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:29 pm what was drwilgy's role?

One-shot Janitor.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:04 pm The post will be late. We had a bit of an emergency here in the Brown household. Burst pipe of some sort and a leak. BAH! Epi is going to post later. Prayers and good thoughts our way that our home isn't damaged from the water running behind our walls for hours most likely