The Syndicate

Also, the deal isn't exactly a secret anymore.

5th post. SORRY!! This late in the game, I felt it necessary to pull examples of what I was referring to about Lorab. List of examples below.

LoRab wrote:And, really, you haven't made a case against me. You could at least give me the respect of allowing me a chance to defend.

LoRab wrote:And please, dig away. There is nothing there that makes me bad, because I am not.

LoRab wrote:I AM NOT BAD. Anything you think you have on me is wrong.

LoRab wrote:Not circle. What role do you have me slotted for?

And if you have me as anything other than civ, you're wrong.

LoRab wrote:Wilgy had nothing on me. He accused me out of nowhere. Gave false evidence against me. And continued. I fully believe he was bad. And that his evil ways were his motivation.

If he was civ, then he was quite simply wrong.

If that is your only motivation for suspecting me, then you have no case. If you suspect me for legit reasons. then I look forwrd to hearing them.

LoRab wrote:Wilgy had nothing on me. He couldn't have because I'm civ.

Not that I think the spelling will make a difference. Also, that part of the statement is likely not detectable, since the person detecting couldn't know what info Wilgy did or didn't have and he could have had information that I was civ and was trying to get me lynched if he was bad.

This particular defense strikes me as the most suspicious. She is very quick to cover possibility of a lie detection on Wilgy's statement here.

LoRab wrote:Wigly had nothing on me. He couldn't have because I'm civ.

First of 3 times she has said this

LoRab wrote:You are wrong about me. Not sure what thread specifics you're thinking make me seem bad but I can assure you that you are misreading me. Not sure what warm or what fuZzie you haven't gotten. I am civ.

LoRab wrote:Please do take a look at me. Why do you find me suspicious?

I am civ. Eye me all you want.

This is all I felt like pulling. These are from the first 2 pages of Lorab's post history, so the most recent examples. IRL, guilty criminals typically defend themselves by pointing out the lack of evidence against them and stating "I'm innocent," rather than pulling evidence of their innocence. I see more of the former going on with Lorab.

Linki Dom: When there are 2 baddie teams, it's a good strategy that can help get rid of the other team. In this case, that other team is, presumably, the stronger team. Plus, SVS's response to the deal made feel even better about Tranq and his deal.

Golden wrote:
Draconus wrote:
fingersplints wrote:
Tranq wrote:So, MM and Timmer are dead. It still makes more sense to lynch another member of the Circle first.
SVS is a one-woman team at this point. Timmer had 3 teammates who helped him get off the poll. If he only had 2, another 3rd player would've gotten a PM asking them to take Timmer off the poll. I suspect they recruited the Living Statue, and have Scrippleskitz or Possessing Entity still alive. I'm not willing to give them the Cabal's NK tonight. With an SVS lynch and a civ NK, they're standing 4 vs 2. If they have Scrippleskitz, they win. If they have Possessing Entity, and the role is similar to the version in A World Apart, they potentially have a lynch deflection. They'd win.

Dom is the most obvious Circle of Decay member. I suspect LoRab is aswell. I think she recruited him. Their thread behaviour links them together and they both have connections to Timmer and Turnip Head aswell. I'll make a post on them in a bit.

I don't suspect Sorsha at this point. One could say the game has come full circle
How is it 4? We just lynched TH and Timmer is gone now

I agree with you about the rest just trying to work out the numbers. I'm not sure why Lorab is cleared by some. I'd always rather lynch original baddie over recruit - so I guess my lynch options would look Lorab > SVS > Dom
I agree with the bolded. We'll need landslide lynches now, so hopefully Golden and Sorsha are on the same page as us.
Not right now. I agree with you that we need to get on the same page though. But lets not just jump into one choice... discussion is what is needed.

I am really thinking tranq might be a good option. He is pushing one paricular narrative very hard when I think multiple potential scenarios are open..

Circle 2, cabal 1
Circle 1, cabal 2
Circle 2, cabal 2
Circle 1, cabal 1

I think we should be treating all of these as options. If SVS is bad and is the trickster, there is no reason for me to assume Cabal is down to one.

I have been believing tranq and SVS are a team for a while. Could LoRab be circle? I think it is possible, but I'm not as convinced...

Also, there is just the reality for me that every single person left in the game falls inside what I would call my circle of trust and so at this point I reocgnise I could be wrong about anyone and that includes Sorsha and Draco.

Understandable. I'm just terrified that lynching Tranq will just be a repeat of the Bass and Matt scenarios. And if that's the case, we lose. Also, why turn the lynch on someone who's willing to vote someone he thinks is Circle? Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the Cabal. I just think we stand a better chance of winning against the Cabal in the end, especially if Scripple is still alive.

And sorry for this quad post. I'll add one final thought here to avoid 5 in a row. I believe Lorab has been a bit too careful to avoid any sort of suspicious activity. What makes me think this is her quick-draw on the "you have no evidence on me" card every time she comes under fire. To me this just screams baddie. So no matter which team she's on, I think she'll be a good candidate. I'm more convinced that she's circle, though, based on current numbers and suspicions. Putting a placeholder vote on her now so I don't forget later.

S~V~S wrote:

I love this, btw!!

S~V~S wrote:
I think someone said a bunch of crap to me based on the presumption that I am bad. So I am not a huge fan of this being discussed this way, since it is not true, and I have not admitted I was bad to anyone. But at this point all I really care about it that the people who killed Metalmarsh die. That was unnecessary. He put his faith in me, and it got him screwed. All I care about at this point is that the Circle does NOT win, other than that I don't particularly care who does. Circle members, ask TH how I am about this kind of thing, he was my teammate in HSK.
Tranq has said a great deal to me based on the supposition that I am bad, as I said ^^ personally, I kind of agree with him. When numbers are this tight, and no one seems to have a consensus on just who the circle is, it would make more sense to sort that out first.

I approve of this deal, no matter which one of these 2 are bad

I still have a lot of reading to do, but I just happen to see Dom's question in someone's post. I've trusted Tranq for most of this game now. In map btsc he said things about other players that I totally agreed with, and that have been correct so far. I'm not sure where the whole "Tranq is bad" thing is coming from, atm, but I do agree with him that it would be most wise to try and take out the Decay members first.

This doesn't answer Dom's question, though. I only just found out about Tranq's "deal" with SVS. If anything, the deal makes me feel better about Tranq not being the last member of the Cabal. I haven't done enough reading to see what SVS had to say about the deal, though. Some enlightenment on this aspect would be appreciated

Also, just happened to scroll up before posting and see Tranq's question. I did not recruit Dom. I have yet to share a square with him. Also, he suspected me? The only thing I saw in that link was him questioning my logic behind saying that he was recruited by SVS. I no longer think this, fwiw.

Also meant to add, great night result!! The first thing I looked at was the poll and immediately thought, "Shit! Timmer's off the poll again!"

GG MM and Timmer!

fingersplints wrote:
Tranq wrote:So, MM and Timmer are dead. It still makes more sense to lynch another member of the Circle first.
SVS is a one-woman team at this point. Timmer had 3 teammates who helped him get off the poll. If he only had 2, another 3rd player would've gotten a PM asking them to take Timmer off the poll. I suspect they recruited the Living Statue, and have Scrippleskitz or Possessing Entity still alive. I'm not willing to give them the Cabal's NK tonight. With an SVS lynch and a civ NK, they're standing 4 vs 2. If they have Scrippleskitz, they win. If they have Possessing Entity, and the role is similar to the version in A World Apart, they potentially have a lynch deflection. They'd win.

Dom is the most obvious Circle of Decay member. I suspect LoRab is aswell. I think she recruited him. Their thread behaviour links them together and they both have connections to Timmer and Turnip Head aswell. I'll make a post on them in a bit.

I don't suspect Sorsha at this point. One could say the game has come full circle
How is it 4? We just lynched TH and Timmer is gone now

I agree with you about the rest just trying to work out the numbers. I'm not sure why Lorab is cleared by some. I'd always rather lynch original baddie over recruit - so I guess my lynch options would look Lorab > SVS > Dom

I agree with the bolded. We'll need landslide lynches now, so hopefully Golden and Sorsha are on the same page as us.

Oooh. That poll was closer than I thought

timmer wrote:
Draconus wrote:What if the Mountains remove Timmer from the poll?

No longer a sarcastic question

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Draconus wrote:What if the Mountains remove Timmer from the poll?
I'd rather the mountains keep us both on the poll than take us both off.

What if the Mountains remove Timmer from the poll?

Also, theme parks FTW!!

Golden wrote:All the obvious baddie stuff has me uncomfortable. I have no idea why TH just voted to lynch himself when he then did get lynched and came back bad. Was he that confident that he is setting a serial killer free? That seems nuts to me.

Do you really buy the whole "The Gollum is protecting me, not SVS" thing?

Long Con wrote:Turnip Head has been lynched. He was the Lich of Khastor Keep, and a member of the Circle of Decay.

Well what do you know? I did have TH's role figured out

That was a ? obviously.

I agree that the Circle is the best rout today. Why risk giving one team a nightly kill this early.

Tranq, you clever bunny. I will contribute to a TH lynch, of course.

I'm alone right now. But nothing direct has happened. I could just be paranoid.

Tranq wrote:
Golden wrote:@Draconus - I don't know, but for me it would avoid the necessity for two lynches, so it would be a pretty big swing.

Plus, you know what I mean when I say I could double back and get the Master Thief in other ways. With the trickster, I feel blind.
Maybe you could double back on the Master Thief, but i can't. Knowing whether or not that role is 100% good or bad without a doubt would be a huge help.
Also, who says the Trickster can't fake his appearance from this poll?

That's what I've been saying!!!

Turnip Head wrote:
Draconus wrote:
Draconus wrote:TH, I can't explain exactly how, but if the Thief comes back bad, you will look really good in my book. There's incentive for switching your vote.
Also, allow me to backtrack for a sec and clarify. You will look better to me. Not 100% better. But a little bit better.

Linki @Golden: I do understand what you mean... I'll think on it some more today, but you may be right.
Interesting How does this work? I wish you could elaborate... are you still near where you talked about going the other day?

Sad to say, I am long gone because I found I have trust issues (and that's not directed at you).

Draconus wrote:TH, I can't explain exactly how, but if the Thief comes back bad, you will look really good in my book. There's incentive for switching your vote.

Also, allow me to backtrack for a sec and clarify. You will look better to me. Not 100% better. But a little bit better.

Linki @Golden: I do understand what you mean... I'll think on it some more today, but you may be right.

Golden wrote:I just think lorab knows dom is a civ.

For me, I think it is easily timmer and TH first from that team... after that, figuring out who else is on the team is a possibility. The dom thing makes sense, but I don't really think it is true.

@tranq - every player needs to be out there. I'm even including thinking you could be one of them, at this point.

As for trickster - I don't think it it necessarily is as straightforward as 'finding out which team they are on'. The person I am suspecting right now for being trickster has even either voted or considered voting trickster. For me, that reinforces that trickster is a good vote... it may be the only way we can figure out that roles affiliation. If I find out that role is civ, it changes the complexion of the game from here significantly.

I can find other ways to double back on the Master Thief.

I hadn't seen this yet. What do you think the odds are that role is civ? I find it highly unlikely.

TH, I can't explain exactly how, but if the Thief comes back bad, you will look really good in my book. There's incentive for switching your vote.

Tranq wrote:Atleast 2 players have to be helping him. Possibly 3. If Timmer only has 2 teammates left, someone else should've gotten a vote in taking him off the poll.

@ Everyone: Was anyone asked if they agreed to taking Timmer off the poll?

No.

Tranq wrote:
Draconus wrote:I'm pretty sure the Soul Shade is dead.
Which team do you think the Soul Shade was on?

I'm thinking this could be a pretty straightforward poll. 1 civvie, 1 cabal, 1 circle

I think the Trickster is Cabal, I WANT TO BELIEVE the Shade is Circle, and the Thief is Civ. That's why I want to know the Thief's alignment. If we figure out that one, then I will have an immediate vote for the next Day phase.

Also, if Golden and Sorsha are bad, I quit

< Ignore the "good night." I'm digging my own grave.

Linki: I believed Matt's quest, but I still voted for him

Right.

I just said a bunch of words out loud that I would not be comfortable posting on any website.

That aside

Matt. I'm sorry. I don't know who to trust anymore, and it's giving me very mixed emotions. I'm voting with MM for the Thief. No offense meant to any player in particular. I just have to know who I can trust. Why not the others? I think it's pretty clear what alignment the Trickster holds (and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the answer we get is a lie). I'm pretty sure the Soul Shade is dead. So let's not waste this vote.

I know

Nope

Tranq wrote:Do you think Matt was being truthful when he said he was on the south side of the map atm?

Yes. I think I know the exact square, actually. But that only helps me run away, lol.

Dom wrote:Draco-- why do I want to lynch SVS, then?

Looks good for you

I am tearing the rest of my hair out trying to figure you out, Matt.

So here it goes. Pants down, bearing all, gun to head, "WHAT TEAM?!"
I think Matt, TH, and Timmer are Decay. Possibly Lorab, too, if she's bad. (and that's a fat fucking IF)
I think SVS could be the last Cabal, and I think she recruited Dom.
So I'm leaving my vote where it is for now for fear of having a mecca-baddie in our future... I mean... What quest?

*Draconus pulls his pants back up and zips them up. Realizing how unnecessary that part was, he hurriedly walks out of the room, face bright red.*

Linki: I'll get to that later.

Moved to Matt for the time being.

Turnip Head wrote:
Draconus wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:
Draconus wrote:I'm skipping my read through of this whole Dom v. Matt suit. The only thing I agree with right now is that the Lich is bad, and he saved TH.
Well I for one think you should read the thread. Dom and Matt are both accusing each other of lying, you don't think that's worth looking into? I agree the Lich is bad but he did not save me. Do you have any other thoughts on me? It seems like you're basing your vote for me on a single event... I would ask you to consider your vote more carefully today.
The portion of their back and forth that I'm skipping is just repetition of what I have read from both of them. It's not helping me feel better or worse about both of them. It's just giving me a WIFOM migraine.
And my vote on you is based on more than just the one event. I have my own suspicion of what your role is based on a miner interaction we had on the map. Like I said it's miner, mostly gut. But there's also the circumstance of our location and where you were headed that gives me pause on my suspicion. Vague, yeah? I'd reveal more, but I don't want to after Matt's punishment
Anyways, my vote on you isn't necessarily permanent. I'm still mulling over those aforementioned circumstances.
Well the second part isn't vague, I told you exactly where I was going and what I was doing The first part is vague though, I don't recall discussing anything that could have been related to my role. I understand if you don't want to elaborate but I hope we can sort this out.

But I urge you to take another look at Dom vs. Matt. Here's how I'm seeing it, FWIW:

Matt looks bad for going after Dom based on role alone. If the baddies missed out on recruiting the Statue it's going to be a difficult role for them to get rid of, and Matt was quick to paint Dom's potential recruitment in a bad light, immediately accusing him of being Cabal after the failed Circle kill. Matt had a lot to say this phase, but when I asked him how he could be sure the Star Gem wasn't located by a civvie, he clammed up. He was also dismissive of my point that he didn't mention Dom until 4 days after his quest failed, which seems to coincide with the NK attempt on Dom. He also didn't answer my question about why Dom would lie about sending him on a quest. I think these are pressing questions and Matt hand-waved it all.

Dom too ignored my questions directed at him. I think Dom looks bad for making a big stink about Matt "outing" him. Even being outed, Dom should have nothing to fear if he's civvie. He's getting defensive over Matt outing him but he's not getting defensive over his alignment, which makes me think he has something to hide.

They've both accused each other of lying, so something's gotta give there. I don't know which I'm voting for yet, I think there's a chance they both could be bad, and they're both better options than me today.

Just to make sure we're on the same page with the bolded part. It's where you were going that makes me doubt my suspicion about what your role is, aka makes me feel better about you, slightly. FWIW, I'm glad you found what you were looking for

I'm with Tranq, though, in that all 3 of you could be bad. I just have no idea which of you to vote for. I did just talk myself into moving my vote off of you. SVS feels like a dark cloud looming over my head and I can't figure out if her presence will bring me life or doom

Wait, I thought Matt's self-vote was his punishment for revealing too much... But his vote is back on Dom

Guess I was wrong about his punishment

Turnip Head wrote:
Draconus wrote:I'm skipping my read through of this whole Dom v. Matt suit. The only thing I agree with right now is that the Lich is bad, and he saved TH.
Well I for one think you should read the thread. Dom and Matt are both accusing each other of lying, you don't think that's worth looking into? I agree the Lich is bad but he did not save me. Do you have any other thoughts on me? It seems like you're basing your vote for me on a single event... I would ask you to consider your vote more carefully today.

The portion of their back and forth that I'm skipping is just repetition of what I have read from both of them. It's not helping me feel better or worse about both of them. It's just giving me a WIFOM migraine.
And my vote on you is based on more than just the one event. I have my own suspicion of what your role is based on a miner interaction we had on the map. Like I said it's miner, mostly gut. But there's also the circumstance of our location and where you were headed that gives me pause on my suspicion. Vague, yeah? I'd reveal more, but I don't want to after Matt's punishment

Anyways, my vote on you isn't necessarily permanent. I'm still mulling over those aforementioned circumstances.

I want a better poll

I'm skipping my read through of this whole Dom v. Matt suit. The only thing I agree with right now is that the Lich is bad, and he saved TH.

Lol. I can positively say that the Oracle and Meadows have not swayed my already somewhat neutral view of Matt.

I've never seen wifom of this scale before

Golden wrote:
Tranq wrote:
Golden wrote:I know of a space that gets you off the poll to, but it requires some people be asked... which actually meshes with timmer starting on the poll then vanishing. Has anyone been asked if they agree to timmer being off the poll? I know I haven't.
I've been to that square early in the game. The number of people needed to make that work is actually worrying me quite a bit.

I'm thinking TH > Matt > Dom atm. You?
Right now, Matt > TH > Dom. Dom's failed nk has me thinking he isn't bad, and I'd still definitely take either Matt or TH over Dom.

I'll explain why I have Matt ahead at a later stage. Right now, I don't want to dictate behaviour in the specific area I find suspicious, if you get what I mean. I want to see how things play out.

I get it. FWIW, I'm leaning the same way Tranq is, atm.

I'm really bummed that Timmer isn't on the poll... I'm even more bummed that I didn't get my self-vote option

That should always be an option!!

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Draconus wrote:
Long Con wrote:Timmer has been removed from the poll!
Did the poll appear before or after people started voting in thread? If after, then 2 days in a row someone has voted Timmer before the poll showed up (myself being one of the first ones). This could just be a coincidence, but let's refrain from doing this going forward.
Yes, I most definitely voted for timmer last night while he was on the poll.

Thank you. There goes that theory.

Draconus wrote:I've heard of Paradise Meadows. I don't know what it does, but I have no reason to not believe Matt about that part. The question is, is Matt bad? If he is, then we don't want him to achieve "awesomeness."

@Golden - Do you have an idea of what TH's role is? I have my own suspicion here, but I'm hesitant about it.

Thinking back on this question, I should have rephrased it. Do you suspect TH enough to vote for him today?

I've heard of Paradise Meadows. I don't know what it does, but I have no reason to not believe Matt about that part. The question is, is Matt bad? If he is, then we don't want him to achieve "awesomeness."

@Golden - Do you have an idea of what TH's role is? I have my own suspicion here, but I'm hesitant about it.

Long Con wrote:Timmer has been removed from the poll!

Did the poll appear before or after people started voting in thread? If after, then 2 days in a row someone has voted Timmer before the poll showed up (myself being one of the first ones). This could just be a coincidence, but let's refrain from doing this going forward.

And the more I think about my travels on the map, the more it makes sense.

Matt wrote:Drac - What are your thoughts on Tranq?

Tranq - What are your thoughts on Drac?

I might be asking others similar questions, just realized that you two have barely spoken about the other.

Drac - You took your vote off me and moved it to Bass. I appreciate that. That being said, why do you think I'm bad because apparently I'm still on your list?

After running into Tranq on the map, I feel like I can trust him. Don't know if I can say more than that, but he was a good temporary btsc partner to have

I moved because you are on the bottom of my very short list, Matt. Your frustration seemed genuine, and you're actually turn into the old Matt I remember (lots of questions... and tinfoil). That's enough to spare you my vote for the time being while we get the rest of this mess figured out.

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