The Syndicate

MacDougall wrote:Let me elaborate on the Jimmy INH thing.

JJJ had civ reads of both INH and Rico. He vociferously defended Rico but only passively defended INH. Perhaps he as Mafia had the safe zone of knowing he was right about Rico but also had concerns about so blatantly defending INH for fear of an INH flip looking bad for him if he did defend him.

Is there any other reason you think I'm scum other than 3J passively defending me?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:When I pressed you for thoughts on him, this was your response:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'll leave others to comment. Between the two, I think INH is more suspicious than Zebra. His eulogy thing was unnecessary at least.

When his wagon remained a viable lynch option, you said he was a town read but, to my knowledge, never gave much reason why. I remember that you felt he and zebra looked good for their interactions with Epi on Night 1, but what is there beyond that?

Your suspicion of him in many ways looks familiar to my own incorrect suspicion of him in The Office, and Golden's incorrect suspicion of him in Red vs. Blue. He has a particular way of playing, and of conveying his defenses of himself, that at face value appear deflective and discrediting of his accusers. I don't think he's the type to acknowledge the soundness of a point made against him even if a majority of others feel it is sound.

Quin wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:And welcome, Quin! I think replacements can sometimes offer unique insight into what is occurring in the thread, so I look forward to your perspective once you're current with the thread. It's good to have you in the game.

Let me know what you'd like my opinion on.

https://www.reddit.com/r/indieheads/com ... t_top_its/

Does this new Jeff Mangum drawing indicate that Neutral Milk Hotel is going to release a new album?

Apologies in advance to motel room for the lighthearted frivolity of this post.

So Rico was an independent who only needed to be alive to win? That...makes a lot of sense. He wasn't civ-minded, that's for sure.

Oh shit I'm being too cavalier. I've gotta get super intense and focused to ensure that I don't get mislynched for little to no reason on Day 2.

a2thezebra wrote:Goddammit INH

It's like we finish each others sandwiches.

Found the Ricochet biopic:

motel room wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

motel room wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:It doesn't really matter. He's probably getting lynched. I'm not going to vote INH to save him. They're both town reads.

I went Elo for a sec before switching back. That's where my gut is out of these three.

Why is feeling more comfortable after not being tied for first near the end of the day scummy?

It read like you felt you could drop the act.

You mean the act of not wanting to get lynched?

You're right, you got me. I don't want to get lynched. I know, it's very humiliating.

That still doesn't say squat about my alignment, sonny boy.

motel room wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:It doesn't really matter. He's probably getting lynched. I'm not going to vote INH to save him. They're both town reads.

I went Elo for a sec before switching back. That's where my gut is out of these three.

Why is feeling more comfortable after not being tied for first near the end of the day scummy?

Motel Room just changed his vote from Rico to Elo and back to me again.

Feeling a bit nervous, bud?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

S~V~S wrote:But you can reconcile that irrational mindset he clung to on day one with civ Rico, who is not irrational, like, at all?

He was highly irrational as a townie in Red vs. Blue.

Welllll, I think it was a bit more complex than that. Rico just got super duper frustrated. I can empathize.

motel room wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:It feels like the only major thing Zebra and I disagree with is that Persona is clearly the best Ingmar Bergman film. Fanny and Alexander's great, don't get me wrong, but Persona's in my top five movies of all time.

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/CinemaZe ... r_bergman/

And you ranked it number 10?

Shameful.

insertnamehere wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:It feels like the only major thing Zebra and I disagree with is that Persona is clearly the best Ingmar Bergman film. Fanny and Alexander's great, don't get me wrong, but Persona's in my top five movies of all time.

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/CinemaZe ... r_bergman/

And you ranked it number 10?

Shameful.

lol I need to update that, but yeah Persona is still the worst Bergman film I've seen.

*votes Zebra*

You got chill when you were off the chopping block.

Yep. I don't want to be lynched. I was tied for first with Rico, it wasn't super fun.

How does that say anything about my alignment?

a2thezebra wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:It feels like the only major thing Zebra and I disagree with is that Persona is clearly the best Ingmar Bergman film. Fanny and Alexander's great, don't get me wrong, but Persona's in my top five movies of all time.

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/CinemaZe ... r_bergman/

And you ranked it number 10?

Shameful.

lol I need to update that, but yeah Persona is still the worst Bergman film I've seen.

*votes Zebra*

S~V~S wrote:And looking at the poll, why is INH taking all of those votes? Can I get a Cliffs notes?

People think I'm parroting others opinions and avoiding having actual thoughts on the game.

Here's an actual thought and opinion: Those people are dum dums.

It feels like the only major thing Zebra and I disagree with is that Persona is clearly the best Ingmar Bergman film. Fanny and Alexander's great, don't get me wrong, but Persona's in my top five movies of all time.

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/CinemaZe ... r_bergman/

And you ranked it number 10?

Shameful.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:It feels like he decided to back away from his initial "FUCK MAC" stance only after others called him out on it.

I feel like we're reading different threads.

The feeling's mutual, man. The one I'm reading has Neil Hartley in it.

BRING BACK NEIL HARTLEY 2016

MovingPictures07 wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:linki - LMAO I'm too baked for these coincidences.

I think it's quite obvious that there are groups forming here. You, me, and Mac against the world.

Also, MP, you third party voter you. What do I have to do to convince you to break this tie by voting for Rico?

Give me your best case against Rico. Why is his behavior best explained with a mafia motivation?

Either Rico deliberately decided to self-sabotage himself for purely petty infantile salty-ass reasons, or Rico is intentionally trying to put forth an "emotion-based" "policy lynch" that no one can really argue with, meaning that most of the thread can just ignore him while he pursues his little invented grudge. If Mac's lynched and flips civ, Rico can just put his hands up and say "Look at the people who jumped on board the bandwagon. From the start, my beef with Mac was personal, and I didn't even try to pretend it wasn't."

Rico can just screw around talking about Mac Day in and Day out, distracting people from catching baddies and attracting no suspicion himself. He also has an emotion based alibi he can trot out when Mac flips civ.

All Rico has to do is just not shut up about Mac and linger around in the thread while not actually putting forth any analysis, and he's made in the shade.

What about his ISOs today though, and the fact that he started out the day saying he would be looking elsewhere for mafia? I think he has shown genuine hunting in an attempt to uncover mafia aside from Mac as well.

Yes, Rico's tossed out a couple of customary "Hey look guys, I'm contributing too!" during DAY 2, after he attracted a hell of a lot of heat from me, Zebra, and others in Day 1.

It feels like he decided to back away from his initial "FUCK MAC" stance only after others called him out on it.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:Voting for Rico, not only to save myself, but also because nothing said after Day 1 stopped him from being my top scum read. No misquoted, misinterpreted quote that Sloonei slaps in my face like a dead, rotting horse carcass is going to change that.

The case against me is poppycock. There, I said it.

People I'd like to ISO if, in fact, I survive the Day:

Lorab
Dom
motel room

Lorab and Dom I feel are falling into the trap of focusing so much on criticizing the way other people play that they are forgetting to actually provide anything of value themselves. I want to see if they can, in addition to giving it, also take it. Motel Room I feel has been townread by people for not a lot of reasons.

Hey INH, do you have any reads of anyone you didn't list here yet? Just curious. Sorry if you've stated them elsewhere; I don't recall them though.

READZZZ:

Zebra
Mac
MovingPictures
S~V~S
3J
DrWilgy
Glorf
spirityo
sanmateo
BWT
Sloonei
Elochin
motel room
Lorab
Dom
Ricochet

Thanks for this, INH! It helps get a better idea of where your mind's at.

Can you elaborate on your Macdougall, Elohcin, Glorfindel, and sprityo reads by chance?

Nothing Mac's done has made me read scum on him, and it feels like he's one of only two other people whose heads are at the same place as mine. Elohcin's acted weird, but it's harder for me to see a baddie reason for her oddness than it is for me with Rico. Glorf is someone I've barely played with and am still feeling out. So far he's done nothing to cause me to lean one way or the other. He's contributed tho, which makes me rank him above the inacts. Spirityo is someone who hasn't really made a big impression on me, although I'm not a fan of how he's contributed to the dogpile against me. But then again, I am pretty biased when it comes to that.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:linki - LMAO I'm too baked for these coincidences.

I think it's quite obvious that there are groups forming here. You, me, and Mac against the world.

Also, MP, you third party voter you. What do I have to do to convince you to break this tie by voting for Rico?

Give me your best case against Rico. Why is his behavior best explained with a mafia motivation?

Either Rico deliberately decided to self-sabotage himself for purely petty infantile salty-ass reasons, or Rico is intentionally trying to put forth an "emotion-based" "policy lynch" that no one can really argue with, meaning that most of the thread can just ignore him while he pursues his little invented grudge. If Mac's lynched and flips civ, Rico can just put his hands up and say "Look at the people who jumped on board the bandwagon. From the start, my beef with Mac was personal, and I didn't even try to pretend it wasn't."

Rico can just screw around talking about Mac Day in and Day out, distracting people from catching baddies and attracting no suspicion himself. He also has an emotion based alibi he can trot out when Mac flips civ.

All Rico has to do is just not shut up about Mac and linger around in the thread while not actually putting forth any analysis, and he's made in the shade.

motel room wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

motel room wrote:I'm not a fan of insertname's contributions but have never played with him before. (Well, I'm not a fan of your contributions, so )Maybe its his creepy avatar (....juuuudy....)or that agreeing with Sloonei agreeing with me is me patting myself on the back. (Ding, we have a winner.)

Also I hate this

insertnamehere wrote:I guess the reason I'm so frustrated with your case against me is because it's seemingly built on the way I play the game being inherently valueless and sketchy, instead of anything I actually did.

Why do you hate this motel room?

I'm gonna be demanding some detailed reasoning for each and every one of you who are a part of this hatchet job. Have I mentioned how purely annoying I find the case against me? Yes? Well, let me reiterate.

Ok, its one of those mindsets I see often in scum when they know they'll have to defend, they want to defend, but all they get against them is people saying "something seems off" and it drives them nuts that they can't persuade or explain it away.

So a civilian wouldn't be frustrated by someone saying that "something seems off" and being tied for first place at the end of Day 2? I don't think this behavior is alignment indicative.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:Voting for Rico, not only to save myself, but also because nothing said after Day 1 stopped him from being my top scum read. No misquoted, misinterpreted quote that Sloonei slaps in my face like a dead, rotting horse carcass is going to change that.

The case against me is poppycock. There, I said it.

People I'd like to ISO if, in fact, I survive the Day:

Lorab
Dom
motel room

Lorab and Dom I feel are falling into the trap of focusing so much on criticizing the way other people play that they are forgetting to actually provide anything of value themselves. I want to see if they can, in addition to giving it, also take it. Motel Room I feel has been townread by people for not a lot of reasons.

Hey INH, do you have any reads of anyone you didn't list here yet? Just curious. Sorry if you've stated them elsewhere; I don't recall them though.

READZZZ:

Zebra
Mac
MovingPictures
S~V~S
3J
DrWilgy
Glorf
spirityo
sanmateo
BWT
Sloonei
Elochin
motel room
Lorab
Dom
Ricochet

a2thezebra wrote:linki - LMAO I'm too baked for these coincidences.

I think it's quite obvious that there are groups forming here. You, me, and Mac against the world.

Also, MP, you third party voter you. What do I have to do to convince you to break this tie by voting for Rico?

motel room wrote:I'm not a fan of insertname's contributions but have never played with him before. (Well, I'm not a fan of your contributions, so )Maybe its his creepy avatar (....juuuudy....)or that agreeing with Sloonei agreeing with me is me patting myself on the back. (Ding, we have a winner.)

Also I hate this

insertnamehere wrote:I guess the reason I'm so frustrated with your case against me is because it's seemingly built on the way I play the game being inherently valueless and sketchy, instead of anything I actually did.

Why do you hate this motel room?

I'm gonna be demanding some detailed reasoning for each and every one of you who are a part of this hatchet job. Have I mentioned how purely annoying I find the case against me? Yes? Well, let me reiterate.

Voting for Rico, not only to save myself, but also because nothing said after Day 1 stopped him from being my top scum read. No misquoted, misinterpreted quote that Sloonei slaps in my face like a dead, rotting horse carcass is going to change that.

The case against me is poppycock. There, I said it.

People I'd like to ISO if, in fact, I survive the Day:

Lorab
Dom
motel room

Lorab and Dom I feel are falling into the trap of focusing so much on criticizing the way other people play that they are forgetting to actually provide anything of value themselves. I want to see if they can, in addition to giving it, also take it. Motel Room I feel has been townread by people for not a lot of reasons.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Okay, INH is doing that thing where he pretends other people have some kind of hyper-arrogant strategy when it's actually him who can't stop condemning people for the way they play.

Heh. The original song is about a washed up music scenester criticizing the new generation of younger hipper kids in a more-than-a-little-bit hypocritical fashion. If you don't think that I didn't see the irony with how you and others see me and that I wasn't making fun of myself just as much as I was Sloonei, then you need to think again.

Sloonei wrote:What is your strategy, INH?

I read the thread. If there's something odd, I point it out. If someone makes an insightful post, I say that I agree with that post, while still trying to build on top of their suspicion. If somebody does something weird, even if I lean civ on them, like I did with Epi before the Scotty reveal, I try and figure out what's going on.

I guess the reason I'm so frustrated with your case against me is because it's seemingly built on the way I play the game being inherently valueless and sketchy, instead of anything I actually did.

I've tried to point out to you that I have actually had original thoughts in my head this entire game, but you just shrug them off and call whatever posts of mine that I quote worthless and providing no critical value. At this point, I feel like I could go through my entire posting history for this game, and analyze my thought processes for every single post that I made, pointing out where I gathered every single idea I put into each sentence, and every single idea that I had, and you would just go and call my way of thinking nonsense parroting.

The post that you keep throwing in my face over and over again, pretending it says something that it doesn't, is the one I wrote immediately after Scotty was revealed to be a civilian. I stated that two people come out of that reveal looking worse for me: Elo and Epi. I didn't state that I thought they were scum, even though you say I did. I didn't state that they were the two that I think the worst of, even though you say I did.

It's easy to just shittalk the way that someone plays the game while offering little to no insight while doing so. Here's the wall of comments you made about me that prefaced my little ditty: (I'm still proud of that work of art, even though nobody else appreciated it. Maybe if I parodied a prog rock song, it'd be better received; I don't know if this is necessarily an LCD Soundsystem type of place.)

Sloonei wrote:Your analysis strikes me as being contrived and just there for the sake of appearing to work things out. I don't think the "conclusions" you draw are sincere.

Sloonei wrote:...as if your pointless little eulogy is in some way an adequate response to or analysis of Epi's death. I want you to make an effort to analyze the game...

Sloonei wrote:...I don't think that analysis is genuine, conclusive, convincing, or anything, really. It's just there. It's words.

Sloonei wrote:He doesn't appear the least bit interested in actually addressing motel room's concerns and is just paying lip service until he can move on.

Sloonei wrote:Oh, so that eulogy was your way of addressing Epi's death, so now you don't have to analyze it at all, because you already addressed it, in a way that says nothing about the game.

Sloonei wrote:INH in this game is just a hype man for other people's suspicions.

Sloonei wrote:Your post did not really bring anything new to what Epi said, so it came off as a long-winded piggybacking of somebody else's theory. Echoing his thoughts back at him, disguised as new content.

I'm also not liking the lack of effort you put into responding here. I don't think this was too difficult a thing to figure out, but your two posts here indicate a near-refusal to engage in a discussion.

This is such a worthless way to criticize someone. What do you think's going to happen? I'm gonna read this stuff and realize: Oh gee wilikers! The way I play mafia is all wrong! I've never had a single idea in my life! Thank you so much Sloonei, for pointing out my natural impotence!

The only thing I can say in response is: No, you're reading my posts wrong. Then I have to launch into a detail-orientated discussion of semantics where I retread every single one of my points to impress you.

And of course, you can just say: Nope, your posts are still worthless, and your defenses are worthless too.

The sheer arrogance in this case overshadows anything 3J's done so far. (Even though I disagree with him about Rico, and every post he's made has only dug himself into a deeper hole with me. I feel like 3J's opinions would be better received if they came directly from the silver tongue of Neil Hartley.)

Sloonei wrote:Your analysis strikes me as being contrived and just there for the sake of appearing to work things out. I don't think the "conclusions" you draw are sincere.

Sloonei wrote:...as if your pointless little eulogy is in some way an adequate response to or analysis of Epi's death. I want you to make an effort to analyze the game...

Sloonei wrote:...I don't think that analysis is genuine, conclusive, convincing, or anything, really. It's just there. It's words.

Sloonei wrote:He doesn't appear the least bit interested in actually addressing motel room's concerns and is just paying lip service until he can move on.

Sloonei wrote:Oh, so that eulogy was your way of addressing Epi's death, so now you don't have to analyze it at all, because you already addressed it, in a way that says nothing about the game.

Sloonei wrote:INH in this game is just a hype man for other people's suspicions.

Sloonei wrote:Your post did not really bring anything new to what Epi said, so it came off as a long-winded piggybacking of somebody else's theory. Echoing his thoughts back at him, disguised as new content.

I'm also not liking the lack of effort you put into responding here. I don't think this was too difficult a thing to figure out, but your two posts here indicate a near-refusal to engage in a discussion.

Yeah, I'm losing my edge
I'm losing my edge
The new posters are coming up from behind
I'm losing my edge
I'm losing my edge to the kids from RateYourMusic and from MafiaUniverse
I'm losing my edge to the posters whose usernames I see when they get on the boards
I'm losing my edge to the Internet seekers who can tell me GTH reads on every player on Day 0 in a 50 player game
I'm losing my edge
To all the kids with novelty gamestyles and in-jokes that I'm not aware of
I'm losing my edge to the detail-orientated amateur analysts with their intentional interrogational rudeness

But I was there
I used to play on Lostpedia and RevolutionMafia
I had played with everyone
I was there in the 2013 Game of Champions, back when DH and Flyin' High were still playing
I was there when SD and MP were deciding what colors to make the message boards
I told them: "Don't make it red and black, it'll be a total eyesore."

But I'm losing my edge to more insightful people
With better deduction skills and more posts
And they're actually really, really nice

I'm losing my edge

I heard you have a playstyle that can tell with a 100% certainty who in a game of mafia is scum within five posts. I heard that you made 100 posts per hour in the latest Turf War game, whatever that was. I heard that in your last game you accused someone directly in every single one of your posts, that no one else even suspected before, and you were right every single time. I heard that in your last game, you didn't even quote a single person because you had such original suspicions that nobody else even slightly influenced. I heard that your first post in the last 40-player game you played was a rainbow list of every single player, and you were right about every single one. I heard that you've found a way to ensure that the civilians win every single time: they just need to listen to you.

I hear you're ignoring any civilians you lynch because it's part of your playstyle that tells you exactly who's good and bad. You want to make a computer program.

I hear that you think that any people who don't post what you subjectively deem to be "big opinions" must be scum
I hear that you think that any people who try to steer the thread in a certain direction that you disagree with must be scum

I hear that every single mafia suspicion you have is way more original, authentic, and correct than every single mafia suspicion that I have.

But have you seen my banners?

You don't know who is really scum
You don't know who is really scum
You don't know who is really scum
You don't know who is really scum
You don't know who is really scum
You don't know who is really scum
You don't know who is really scum
You don't know who is really scum
You don't know who is really scum
You don't know who is really scum
You don't know who is really scum
You don't know who is really scum
You don't know who is really scum
You don't know who is really scum

Sloonei wrote:

Plus, I already responded to his death here:

insertnamehere wrote:Epignosis went out like he played: frustratingly. RIP, and I wish you elected to answer a single question before you left this mortal coil. Guess it doesn't particularly matter now.

There ya go.

Now onto Rico's text wall.

Oh, so that eulogy was your way of addressing Epi's death, so now you don't have to analyze it at all, because you already addressed it, in a way that says nothing about the game.

I'm voting insertnamehere.

What do you want from me, Sloonei? Epi's death seemed kind of odd and random, and I don't like how it's seemingly put a larger target on me and Zebra's back than Scotty's mislynch has on any of his voters. Of course, because that epitaph was written right after the reveal of his death, I didn't know how it would affect me. I didn't expect people to make an absurd logical leap because of it, and I don't think there's a burden of proof on me to somehow "make up" for just wanting a simple answer from the dearly departed.

Sloonei wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

LoRab wrote:Curious to see what Zebra and INH have to say now that Epi was killed by mafia. And highly unlikely, in a speed game, that mafia would kill one of their own night 1. So....wanting responses there.

I don't believe either me or Zebra called Epi mafia. We just wanted some kind of explanation for his D1 vote, and his pussyfooting around it was aggravating.

"Never called Epi mafia."

insertnamehere wrote:The two people who came out of Day 1 looking worse for me are Elo and Epi, those two lovebirds.

The two people who came out of Day looking [worst] are Elo and Epi. Uh.

Don't misquote me, Sloonei. Here's the original post, I'll repeat it again for your benefit:

insertnamehere wrote:The two people who came out of Day 1 looking worse for me are Elo and Epi, those two lovebirds.

Worse. A different word than worst, with different meanings and connotations. Here's a helpful WikiHow article to teach you the difference: http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Worse-and-Worst

Cliffnotes:
The lynch train against Scotty being one that was perpetrated against a civ, made me reconsider my assumptions about two people, Epi and Elo. I didn't imply that they were my two top suspects, but that my view of both of them was altered by the Day 1 results. And I never called Epi mafia.

Hopefully, you now understand.

Sloonei wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:Epignosis went out like he played: frustratingly. RIP, and I wish you elected to answer a single question before you left this mortal coil. Guess it doesn't particularly matter now.

What was the purpose of this eulogy? Is it a thing you usually do?

This was immediately after the Night post, and it was my response to Epi's death, which was something I thought was slightly warranted. Seeing how Lorab immediately posted after this:

LoRab wrote:Curious to see what Zebra and INH have to say now that Epi was killed by mafia. And highly unlikely, in a speed game, that mafia would kill one of their own night 1. So....wanting responses there.

I suppose it was warranted.

A person (no, not that A Person) made a weird vote D1. I wanted an explanation for this weird vote. The person refused to give one, and was crazily evasive and almost mocking to anyone trying to get an answer. I continued pressing that person for a type of explanation. That person was then nightkilled. I said, "oh well, guess it wasn't important anyway, now back to my big current suspicion."

Would you kindly explain what I did wrong?

Sloonei wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:Epi, blink twice if your vote was forced. Otherwise, I'm gonna have to agree with Zebra that your pithy evasive non-answers are only making this one small thing into something more and more fishy.

INH in this game is just a hype man for other people's suspicions.

Shame on me for fucking agreeing with other people.

Awful play, I know.

But I still don't see how you can discredit my entire case against Rico as just me parroting what smarter people have said. You're just so eager to make everything I say meaningless that you're disregarding the actual content of most of my posts.

Sloonei wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

motel room wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

motel room wrote:

motel room wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:This.

Rico has set up a very risky system here. He's intentionally put a massive target on his back. If neither Rico or Mac are bad, all the mafia has to do is kill Rico, and they get a free lynch of Mac. This same logic gives Mac a smokescreen to hide behind if he is, in fact, bad. In both scenarios, Rico = Dead N1.

It seems like such a categorically poor move for Rico that it essentially leaves me with two options. A. He has some sort of secret info or an ulterior motive for voting Mac Day 1. B. He knows for sure that the target on his back won't hurt him because he's scum.

Uhhh

Free lunch!

This was from yesterday, on my phone on the train. Epi had the most concise cut-down of the rico\mac bickering and this bloke appeared to piggyback off it, but with an odd confident "two option" stance which I was not a fan of.

Care to elaborate on why you aren't a fan?

Just like, the vibe. Mabo.

Welp.

Maybe I can try, because I think I also saw what motel room was picking up here. Your post did not really bring anything new to what Epi said, so it came off as a long-winded piggybacking of somebody else's theory. Echoing his thoughts back at him, disguised as new content.

I'm also not liking the lack of effort you put into responding here. I don't think this was too difficult a thing to figure out, but your two posts here indicate a near-refusal to engage in a discussion.

Maybe I'm just an imbecile, but I didn't get any of that first paragraph from Motel Room's interactions with me. I asked him why he didn't like what I said, and he gave me "bad vibes." There's not really anything I can do with that. I can't say "NO, YOUR SUBJECTIVE FEELINGS ARE WRONG!" So my first reaction was to just sigh and move on, hoping that my future posts would not bring down even more bad vibes.

Once again, maybe I'm just mentally challenged, but I see a clear difference between Epi's post:

Epignosis wrote:If MacDougall can't kill you, then he can't kill you. And if he can kill you, all he has to do is...refrain from doing so. If you were good, you've opened yourself up to being killed to set up MacDougall.

Not helpful.

(Pointing out the inherent contradiction in Rico's "policy lynch" and seeing how it could easily backfire, making the entire thing irrelevant to the civ cause.)

And mine:

insertnamehere wrote:Rico has set up a very risky system here. He's intentionally put a massive target on his back. If neither Rico or Mac are bad, all the mafia has to do is kill Rico, and they get a free lynch of Mac. This same logic gives Mac a smokescreen to hide behind if he is, in fact, bad. In both scenarios, Rico = Dead N1.

It seems like such a categorically poor move for Rico that it essentially leaves me with two options. A. He has some sort of secret info or an ulterior motive for voting Mac Day 1. B. He knows for sure that the target on his back won't hurt him because he's scum.

(I state that Rico knows the contradiction and is choosing to ignore it. I then state that Rico either must have a second reason for ignoring it and endangering himself, or he must know he isn't in any danger because he's scum. I imply that I'm leaning towards the latter.)

Epi's post points out a contradiction and observes how it makes Rico's entire enterprise pointless. My post says that Rico must be aware of this contradiction, and is likely scum for it.

Those are two different points of view. Yes, parts of the first paragraph of my post are repeating what Epi said, but it's all in service of a wider point that Epi himself didn't state at all: Rico is most likely scum.

Please illustrate to me how my own posts are pointless, Sloonei, because I don't see it.

LoRab wrote:Curious to see what Zebra and INH have to say now that Epi was killed by mafia. And highly unlikely, in a speed game, that mafia would kill one of their own night 1. So....wanting responses there.

I don't believe either me or Zebra called Epi mafia. We just wanted some kind of explanation for his D1 vote, and his pussyfooting around it was aggravating.

Plus, I already responded to his death here:

insertnamehere wrote:Epignosis went out like he played: frustratingly. RIP, and I wish you elected to answer a single question before you left this mortal coil. Guess it doesn't particularly matter now.

There ya go.

Now onto Rico's text wall.

Ricochet wrote:That's not how you spell Ricochet.

Add this to the list of questions, Rico:

Does the fact that you weren't instantly nightkilled make you slightly less gung-ho about getting Mac out?

Ricochet wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:Also, @ Rico showing up in the thread, after ignoring my criticism of his Mac-centered hurlyburly, to criticize me for not making sense.

Do the two topics need to be related? Is pointing out something in real time not admissable, unless I've covered everything in the past?

As for your reply pointed out, given its lateness in my time zone, I might have very well missed it indeed. Do you still want rebuttals on it?

Yes, I would.

Epignosis went out like he played: frustratingly. RIP, and I wish you elected to answer a single question before you left this mortal coil. Guess it doesn't particularly matter now.

Dom wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:Epi, blink twice if your vote was forced. Otherwise, I'm gonna have to agree with Zebra that your pithy evasive non-answers are only making this one small thing into something more and more fishy.

What do you mean by forced? On Day 1? With no public coercer role?

my thoughts exactly

I'm just trying to think of a possible reason why Epi would switch and vote for sanmateo, and I was considering some possible outside influence that'd explain why Epi doesn't want to even begin to give a concrete reason for his Day 1 vote.

Looking at the role list now, I don't see any vote manip type stuff. But then again, I myself learned during Red V. Blue to never underestimate G-Man's propensity for crazy secret game mechanics that screw me over big time.

Do I think Epi's vote was forced? No. But I thought it was a distant possibility, like I always do when someone makes a weird vote that they emphatically refuse to elaborate on.

Also, @ Rico showing up in the thread, after ignoring my criticism of his Mac-centered hurlyburly, to criticize me for not making sense.

Here's that post you didn't respond to, Rico. Just in case you didn't see it.

insertnamehere wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:
A baddie Rico going after Mac seems way more likely to me. Manufacturing outrage over a previous game, while starting a bus against a civ in a way that'd be hard to backfire. Purely emotional plays are hard for civilians to dispute, even when they lynch a civ.

I didn't express any "outrage" at first. I expressed a policy lynch. Of course, I had to explain context, when inquired afterwards.
And how can this so-called "outrage" be manufactured, if it's certified to stem from a past game?

Further down your phrase:
a) how would this lynch be against a civ? Do you know Mac to be a civ? Do you think that, at any point, I said lynch Mac no matter what he is?
b) how can one "bus" a civilian?
c) how would this be "hard" to backfire? Isn't it already backfiring?

Maybe my definition of a "policy lynch" is different than yours, but just voting Mac because "Fuck Mac" is less of a policy and more cattiness.

a) Mac has done absolutely nothing to form any impression one way or the other in my mind. To me, a Mac vote would be as productive as a BWT vote. Just throwing a dart and hoping it lands. Seeing as you started your case against Mac before you could even possibly get an actual legitimate read on him, I took that to mean that you wanted to lynch Mac just on the 4/19 chance that he's a baddie which automatically means that he'll NK you, because you know Mac well enough to predict his exact baddie game in every single instance. Apparently.
b) Maybe "bus" was the wrong term; sometimes all the insider lingo and jargon of mafia gets a bit screwy in my head. I meant starting a lynch train/wagon/party/turducken against a person you know is a civilian, but doing so in a way where it won't backfire against you once his alignment is revealed.
c) By backfire, I mean that in the scenario in which Rico = Bad, and Mac = Civ, after Rico lynches Mac, Rico can point to his personal motive for targeting him and shift the blame on other more ostensibly opportunistic parties. Making completely "personal" game moves is a good smokescreen and a nice way to avoid culpability.

Epignosis wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:Epi, blink twice if your vote was forced. Otherwise, I'm gonna have to agree with Zebra that your pithy evasive non-answers are only making this one small thing into something more and more fishy.

I like fish.

Yes, yes, the sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

Epi, blink twice if your vote was forced. Otherwise, I'm gonna have to agree with Zebra that your pithy evasive non-answers are only making this one small thing into something more and more fishy.

The two people who came out of Day 1 looking worse for me are Elo and Epi, those two lovebirds.

Elo's Scotty vote and "self-preservation" was weird to me. Same thing with Epi's ultimately useless last second switcheroo where he jumped off of the Scotty train mere seconds before it crashed into a wall. I'd really like to see his explanation for his vote because right now it just rings as hollowly opportunistic.

motel room wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

motel room wrote:

motel room wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Epignosis wrote:If MacDougall can't kill you, then he can't kill you. And if he can kill you, all he has to do is...refrain from doing so. If you were good, you've opened yourself up to being killed to set up MacDougall.

Not helpful.

This.

Rico has set up a very risky system here. He's intentionally put a massive target on his back. If neither Rico or Mac are bad, all the mafia has to do is kill Rico, and they get a free lynch of Mac. This same logic gives Mac a smokescreen to hide behind if he is, in fact, bad. In both scenarios, Rico = Dead N1.

It seems like such a categorically poor move for Rico that it essentially leaves me with two options. A. He has some sort of secret info or an ulterior motive for voting Mac Day 1. B. He knows for sure that the target on his back won't hurt him because he's scum.

Uhhh

Free lunch!

This was from yesterday, on my phone on the train. Epi had the most concise cut-down of the rico\mac bickering and this bloke appeared to piggyback off it, but with an odd confident "two option" stance which I was not a fan of.

Care to elaborate on why you aren't a fan?

Just like, the vibe. Mabo.

Welp.

motel room wrote:

motel room wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Epignosis wrote:If MacDougall can't kill you, then he can't kill you. And if he can kill you, all he has to do is...refrain from doing so. If you were good, you've opened yourself up to being killed to set up MacDougall.

Not helpful.

This.

Rico has set up a very risky system here. He's intentionally put a massive target on his back. If neither Rico or Mac are bad, all the mafia has to do is kill Rico, and they get a free lynch of Mac. This same logic gives Mac a smokescreen to hide behind if he is, in fact, bad. In both scenarios, Rico = Dead N1.

It seems like such a categorically poor move for Rico that it essentially leaves me with two options. A. He has some sort of secret info or an ulterior motive for voting Mac Day 1. B. He knows for sure that the target on his back won't hurt him because he's scum.

Uhhh

Free lunch!

This was from yesterday, on my phone on the train. Epi had the most concise cut-down of the rico\mac bickering and this bloke appeared to piggyback off it, but with an odd confident "two option" stance which I was not a fan of.

Care to elaborate on why you aren't a fan?

Ricochet wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:
A baddie Rico going after Mac seems way more likely to me. Manufacturing outrage over a previous game, while starting a bus against a civ in a way that'd be hard to backfire. Purely emotional plays are hard for civilians to dispute, even when they lynch a civ.

I didn't express any "outrage" at first. I expressed a policy lynch. Of course, I had to explain context, when inquired afterwards.
And how can this so-called "outrage" be manufactured, if it's certified to stem from a past game?

Further down your phrase:
a) how would this lynch be against a civ? Do you know Mac to be a civ? Do you think that, at any point, I said lynch Mac no matter what he is?
b) how can one "bus" a civilian?
c) how would this be "hard" to backfire? Isn't it already backfiring?

Maybe my definition of a "policy lynch" is different than yours, but just voting Mac because "Fuck Mac" is less of a policy and more cattiness.

a) Mac has done absolutely nothing to form any impression one way or the other in my mind. To me, a Mac vote would be as productive as a BWT vote. Just throwing a dart and hoping it lands. Seeing as you started your case against Mac before you could even possibly get an actual legitimate read on him, I took that to mean that you wanted to lynch Mac just on the 4/19 chance that he's a baddie which automatically means that he'll NK you, because you know Mac well enough to predict his exact baddie game in every single instance. Apparently.
b) Maybe "bus" was the wrong term; sometimes all the insider lingo and jargon of mafia gets a bit screwy in my head. I meant starting a lynch train/wagon/party/turducken against a person you know is a civilian, but doing so in a way where it won't backfire against you once his alignment is revealed.
c) By backfire, I mean that in the scenario in which Rico = Bad, and Mac = Civ, after Rico lynches Mac, Rico can point to his personal motive for targeting him and shift the blame on other more ostensibly opportunistic parties. Making completely "personal" game moves is a good smokescreen and a nice way to avoid culpability.

THOUGHTS ON PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT RICOCHET OR MAC:

MP just seems like MP to me. Not getting the suspicion.

I'm liking Neil Hartley a hell of a lot. I'd really appreciate if his agent, JaggedJimmyJay, could continue booking him for the foreseeable future.

Zebra gets the Making-Most-Sense-to-Me award, and is probably my biggest civ read. Although I may be slightly biased due to her being the first person to recognize where my avatar is from. If you're a fan of Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me, you're my kind of people.

Elohcin has been acting odd, and I dislike her besmirching of the honorable Neil Hartley. But I'd like to see a bit more before necessarily scum-reading her.

I disagree with the reasoning behind voting BWT, particularly on such an eventful Day 1, but I understand where it comes from.

Scotty is probably the person behind Ricochet who's pinging me the most. I don't like his interactions with Epi one bit.

Epi seems alright to me. Not really seeing his 4-person team thing, but I like that he's throwing stuff out there.

Ricochet wrote:

insertnamehere wrote: This whole thing is one big cask of WIFOM. If Rico was mafia, which is a phrase that irritates me, I could definitely him you going after Mac in the thread as a smokescreen for any other actions. Yes, he could go tit-for-tat and NK Mac, but maybe his team doesn't want to necessarily follow his disdain-filled agenda.

But, your mileage may vary on how you interpret Rico's actions. But right now, he's the person whose giving me the scummiest signals, and where my vote's going today.

I would ask for you to clarify your first paragraph, because I fail to understand much of it. There even seem to be missing verbs or mixed up pronouns between Mac and myself, at least in my perception. And it makes me feel you did not address the "Rico must be bad for what he's doing now" scenario in any way.

Highlighted by your "Rico is most scummy, ergo lynch" finale. The so called "scummy" (behaviour/signal/what be it) is proven to not automatically equate mafia and out here there's a tendency to get trigger happy with this.

whoops, let me fix that first paragraph.

This whole thing is one big cask of WIFOM. If Rico was mafia, which is a phrase that irritates me, I could see definitely him going after Mac in the thread as a smokescreen for other nefarious actions. Yes, a theoretically bad Rico could go tit-for-tat and NK Mac, but maybe his team doesn't want to necessarily follow his disdain-filled agenda.

that'll teach me to phone-post.

I don't see any civilian-based reason for Rico to do this other than sheer saltiness and spite. The odds of Rico being NK'd tonight, in my own personal projections, are much higher then they were prior to his anti-Mac brigade. I also fail to see how Rico could honestly expect anyone else to follow him on his little Kill Bill revenge crusade.

Look, being personally targeted in a game feels like shit. But the way to resolve that is to talk with Mac, not drag all of this dirty laundry to the next game you play together. By personally targeting him, you're doing the exact same thing he did to you in Rot3K. Yes, you'd be getting even, but only by lowering yourself to his level.

If, of course, Rico is civ.

A baddie Rico going after Mac seems way more likely to me. Manufacturing outrage over a previous game, while starting a bus against a civ in a way that'd be hard to backfire. Purely emotional plays are hard for civilians to dispute, even when they lynch a civ.

I guess it's easier for me to buy that Rico is cannily faking a purely emotional case against Mac as a smokescreen, than it is for me to buy that Rico is purposefully being petty and irrational.

I dunno. Maybe I'm overestimating him.

Ricochet wrote:So I can't have my policy lynch for once, got it. Glad it's been a non-issue in the past when players pull it for truly shallow/salty reasons, but when I do it out of principle and self-prez, stop the presses.

Damn if I play serious and, as far as recent stats have shown, get remove before seeing another daylight, damn if I don't.

I agree with Epig and INH thoughts that this matter is also Catch22ish, since it's something the mafia could weave, but hopefully the mafia will seek its own agenda after how D1 events shape up, in case Mac's not a part of it, or even if he is, they might choose not to follow his disdain-filled agenda. So projecting how the Mafia will behave is as loose as ever, at this point.

Yes, there's no high degree of helpfulness to this method. It's a declared policy lynch, which is never as substantiated as squuezing neurons to read into a player for mafia tells. And it's personal, which I also never denied.

One thing I can disagree with is that this crayons me bad in any way. If I were part of the mafia team, I'd have nothing to fear about getting killed... by the mafia. If I were mafia and lnew Mac is town, my retribution could easily take another form, without any mention in the thread obviously. As for the ideas of either framing or bussing Mac, they'd seem highly ineffectual as long-term plotting. And I'm a long-term kind of strategist.

So yeah, one could say this basically clears me as town. You're welcome, PoE makers.

This whole thing is one big cask of WIFOM. If Rico was mafia, which is a phrase that irritates me, I could definitely him you going after Mac in the thread as a smokescreen for any other actions. Yes, he could go tit-for-tat and NK Mac, but maybe his team doesn't want to necessarily follow his disdain-filled agenda.

But, your mileage may vary on how you interpret Rico's actions. But right now, he's the person whose giving me the scummiest signals, and where my vote's going today.

Epignosis wrote:If MacDougall can't kill you, then he can't kill you. And if he can kill you, all he has to do is...refrain from doing so. If you were good, you've opened yourself up to being killed to set up MacDougall.

Not helpful.

This.

Rico has set up a very risky system here. He's intentionally put a massive target on his back. If neither Rico or Mac are bad, all the mafia has to do is kill Rico, and they get a free lynch of Mac. This same logic gives Mac a smokescreen to hide behind if he is, in fact, bad. In both scenarios, Rico = Dead N1.

It seems like such a categorically poor move for Rico that it essentially leaves me with two options. A. He has some sort of secret info or an ulterior motive for voting Mac Day 1. B. He knows for sure that the target on his back won't hurt him because he's scum.

Also, is Neil Hartley going to grace us with a one-man show?

http://www.neillhartley.com/One-Man-Shows.html

I hope he gets around to some Sherlock Holmes, I think we could use it.

Ricochet wrote:

S~V~S wrote:So you are saying that he makes you so paranoid that you cannot deal with him being alive without factual knowledge that he is a civ?

I am.

What, pray tell, makes Mac such a devious player, that we must lynch him Day 1 every game just to get him out of the way?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Sorry to hear about your mom, Glorfindel. Wishing the best!

I'll hop on the MacDougall policy lynch. Why not?

Let's start with "why". What's the policy behind your vote to lynch Mac?

Shits and giggles.

As always, shits and giggles are often in the eye of the shitter and giggler. What makes one man shit and giggle, may not make someone else.