The Syndicate

Fredwood wrote:If you're a LMS, why would you so aggressively pursue someone who was at least 50/50 supported as town?

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:Maybe I would be up for a CFD. I disagree with Jack's philosophy of community > winning in this specific context, but I can understand it and I'm a sucker for a good appeal.

I would like it more if it wasn't the exact same thing I said earlier in the game about Nacho.

I could lynch INH though. He's staring at this EOD madness and _________________.

I'm expecting a wall post.

Sloonei wrote:Yes. I think there's something to be said there. I won't ever take credit for having metalmarsh pegged or being even remotely confident in my vote at the time. But, in the end, I helped lynch a member of the mafia team, while Jackofhearts (and you) were positioned opposite to the scum lynch. Simple optics says that's bad for you guys.

Sloonei wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:vote Jackofhearts for the time being. I need to go do something else. I'll probably continue popping in and out for a couple hours, but I won't be fully here.

*waves hand dismissively*

What were you doing at the end of the day yesterday? You voted for Scotty and then just kinda stuck around the thread not doing much.

Exactly 15 min before thread lock, after ~4 straight linki refreshes...

JoH: I read Scotty scum, Diz town and I can't read Marmot or Eloh for crap. If anyone has a good argument, give it now.

Then a few people (you included) switch without providing reasoning at all and the thread is locked.

What was I supposed to do? Nothing happened that could have changed my opinion and there was no time for extra analysis.

Getting annoyed with your framing.

You could have weighed in more. But I just went back and looked. Your Scotty vote came much closer to the deadline than I remembered it (probably because I chucked like 50 posts into the thread in those 15 minutes. I was remembering it as if you had cast your vote a half hour or so before the day ended, and then say in silence as the rest of us tried to figure stuff out.

You still are someone who stands out for the simple fact that you are not on the metalmarsh bandwagon. That in itself is not suspicious, but it certainly warrants some attention, wouldn't you say?

And you've also come out swinging against one of the people responsible for lynching the dead scum player yesterday. Do you think we should all just overlook this reality?

Sloonei wrote:bumping this so INH can share his thoughts on it.

Sloonei wrote:insertnamehere provided a really interesting point as evidence against Dyslexicon at the end of the day. But I took interest in it not as evidence against Dyslexicon at all. Where INH sees Dyslexicon buddying with Golden, I see grounds for suspicion of Golden:

insertnamehere wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

Golden wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:Sometimes I feel that Golden acts like I'm confirmed town.

Not sure exactly what you're seeing or how you mean this, but I tend to act like everyone is town. Even when I suspect someone on one hand, I don't want to ignore their perspective on things on the other, in case I'm wrong. I think I'm much better at figuring out who is town than who is bad, so this also aids my hunting approach.

It's not for how you interact with me (actually thinking about it, I don't think we've interacted much? Hi.), but more so in your analysis of votes and wagons and how people are treating me, it seems like you assume that I'm town. Both with the reactions to my fakeslip and in regards to the wagon on me. I don't know what this means, it's just a feeling I had and I wrote it out.

If it's accurate that Golden is "assuming" Dyslexicon to be town, it could be because Golden knows Dyslexicon is town and so is not treating them with the same skepticism as everybody else. Scum Golden does not wish to push a fake case against town Dyslexicon and so is content with his town read and is not jumping on the things that all the paranoid townies are jumping on.
This is something I'd need Dyslexicon to comment on before I can be sure it's a legitimate cause for suspicion. Do you see this as a possibility, Dyslexicon?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:My face when people still try to lynch Dizzy, who I think would not be near the conversation minus SlipGate:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:Dizzy and marmot, I mean.

I want you to tell me in three sentences or less why Dizzy is mafia-aligned.

insertnamehere wrote:

Sloonei wrote:What do you think is the single most compelling point against Dyslexicon?

His "slip" gambit failed to produce anything of real value, making it a pointless anti-civilian bit of frippery.

2nd most compelling point: His aggressive pursuit of people with neutral demeanors.

3rd most compelling point: His inconsistent reads on people.

4th most compelling point: His buddying up with percieved civ "power-players" like Golden.

Sloonei wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Sorry Sloonei, that question was directed towards nutella. I didn't catch that portion of her post until you highlighted it.

Linki: I haven't been around the last 5 hours, so I missed that.

Unvote

Vote Lynch Dizzy

I don't actually want to lynch Sloonei.

YEAH WELL... uh

speedchuck wrote:Are INH and/or sloonei usually ballsy enough to just come out in thread and bait/encourage everyone into a lynch that >half the town doesn't feel, while being best buddies?

I'm really lost as to whether they are suretown or surescum

Aaaaaand voting Sloonei WTH marmot

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Unvote

Vote Lynch Sloonei

Get yo' head in the game!!

Quin wrote:nutella expressed that INH and I were making her 'sad' and that she was 'disappointed' in Sloonei. Neither of those are stances on our alignments. Something to take with us to Day 3.

Silver Lantern wrote:I wish Jack or JJJ was around. Sloonei is VERY non-commital as a leader.

Sloonei wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Scotty is still my most confident read.

Why?

Give me your top reason that doesn't involve meta or semantics.

All of the reads he's shared have been extremely light.

So, neutrality?

Yeah, I'm giving this case a hard pass.

No, not neutrality. Neutrality, as I understand it, is "Maybe Player X is good, maybe Player X is bad. IDK." Scotty's posts have featured such reads as "Wilgy is inviting WIFOM" and "Elohcin is the most suspicious player here." He's taking stances, but the reasons are lacking and I don't find his conviction believable.

nutella wrote:

Quin wrote:

nutella wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

Quin wrote:INH brings up an interesting point in that Dizzy had put Nacho down as her only null read. That seems like a rookie error, which she apparently is not, and given Dizzy's presence in the thread, I think it's likely she'd have spoken out against a Nacho kill for that specific reason.

I agree with INH for what he said about her fluctuating read on 3J. I'm not bothered by drops and rises of one or two tiers on a rainbow list, but to describe it as a roller coaster is correct. My interpretation of 3J's standing in the respective posts looks like this

1 A slight scum, for agreeing with me about the Sorsha discussion and voting 3J
2 Says he has no real scum-reads
3 A rainbow list where 3J is listed as his 2nd top town read. Justification is that he couldn't find anything suspicious about him
4 Slight scum, a cold read.

I still don't see evidence that this is an inconsistent thought process rather than a person simply changing their mind a couple of times. What would be the baddie motivation to change it up like that? Or do you believe Dyslexicon simply lost track of his own read on the most vocal player in the game? That would be a genuine slip.

Tbh, this is the one point that I keep waffling on that could convince me that Dys could be bad, and to me it would entail that JJJ is his teammate. But I'd only be willing to entertain that possibility after determining Marmot's and/or INH's alignment.

Why would a marmot or INH lynch solidify your feelings on Dys and 3J?

I went over this in a post soon after INH's big ISO. I see heavy connections between INH and Marmot (there were some soft defenses in that iso post, for one thing), and I feel an anti-alignment between that pair and between Dys and JJJ because most of INH's ISO was promoting the idea that Dys and JJJ could be baddie teammates. So, if Marmot flips civ, I'd be more inclined to trust INH, and thus more inclined to entertain the notion that Dys/JJJ are bad.

Sloonei wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Scotty is still my most confident read.

Why?

Give me your top reason that doesn't involve meta or semantics.

All of the reads he's shared have been extremely light.

Sloonei wrote:Scotty is still my most confident read.

speedchuck wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:

nutella wrote: lots of linki. Sloon can you give reasons you think MM is town?

No one would vote for themselves that close to the deadline if they were scum?

Clearly a joke, but I'm inclined to agree with you. Also makes INH look better because if they're scum, they somehow aren't worried about buddying. Like, it's all too bold and brazen to be scum.

Still hate the way INH tries to pursue lynches.

nutella wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

Quin wrote:INH brings up an interesting point in that Dizzy had put Nacho down as her only null read. That seems like a rookie error, which she apparently is not, and given Dizzy's presence in the thread, I think it's likely she'd have spoken out against a Nacho kill for that specific reason.

I agree with INH for what he said about her fluctuating read on 3J. I'm not bothered by drops and rises of one or two tiers on a rainbow list, but to describe it as a roller coaster is correct. My interpretation of 3J's standing in the respective posts looks like this

1 A slight scum, for agreeing with me about the Sorsha discussion and voting 3J
2 Says he has no real scum-reads
3 A rainbow list where 3J is listed as his 2nd top town read. Justification is that he couldn't find anything suspicious about him
4 Slight scum, a cold read.

I still don't see evidence that this is an inconsistent thought process rather than a person simply changing their mind a couple of times. What would be the baddie motivation to change it up like that? Or do you believe Dyslexicon simply lost track of his own read on the most vocal player in the game? That would be a genuine slip.

Tbh, this is the one point that I keep waffling on that could convince me that Dys could be bad, and to me it would entail that JJJ is his teammate. But I'd only be willing to entertain that possibility after determining Marmot's and/or INH's alignment.

Dyslexicon wrote:

Golden wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:Sometimes I feel that Golden acts like I'm confirmed town.

Not sure exactly what you're seeing or how you mean this, but I tend to act like everyone is town. Even when I suspect someone on one hand, I don't want to ignore their perspective on things on the other, in case I'm wrong. I think I'm much better at figuring out who is town than who is bad, so this also aids my hunting approach.

It's not for how you interact with me (actually thinking about it, I don't think we've interacted much? Hi.), but more so in your analysis of votes and wagons and how people are treating me, it seems like you assume that I'm town. Both with the reactions to my fakeslip and in regards to the wagon on me. I don't know what this means, it's just a feeling I had and I wrote it out.

Silver Lantern wrote:

insertnamehere wrote: Only a Sith deals in absolutes, mothertrucker.

I have no problems with Sith, as long as they're town.

BTW, I am probably going to Vig you just cause your avatar is so damn annoying... Just giving you fair notice.

Silver Lantern wrote:

Quin wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:Wish Scotty was still around. Still not clear on his stance with Dys.

Silver Lantern, have you read my case that I asked you to read? Is there a universe where you see yourself voting for Dys today? How can I make that reality into our reality?

If I vote for Dys, Would you be cool with me vigilanting you if he comes up town?

Do you think if I'm wrong about Dys, I must be bad?

What about all the people who mislynched Sig? Why didn't you vigilante them?

*buzzer*

Not the confident townie answer I was hoping for. The right answer is, "I'm positive Dys is scum so I don't have any concern over you even having to consider if you'll vig me." So if you're not positive why are you trying to push his lynch?

P.S. Wigly was on Sig's lynch train.

Do you generally just not vote when you aren't certain about a lynch candidate?

I generally don't vote when I am suspicious of the person leading the lynch train...

Sloonei wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Sloonei wrote:What do you think is the single most compelling point against Dyslexicon?

His "slip" gambit failed to produce anything of real value, making it a pointless anti-civilian bit of frippery.

I don't see this as a reason to suspect him. Like he has said, he's not responsible for the responses of others. Where I do see room to suspect him is in the lack of direction he exhibited himself in producing results, and at times he seems to have shrugged off the idea that he should have done more with it.

2nd most compelling point: His aggressive pursuit of people with neutral demeanors.

3rd most compelling point: His inconsistent reads on people.

4th most compelling point: His buddying up with percieved civ "power-players" like Golden.

These three kind of tie in for me. I know you covered it all in your ISO but I did not fully grasp all of your points at the time. I thought the neutral player observation had some merit and was intriguing, but on his "inconsistent" reads, like I said earlier, I never fault a person for changing their mind. I think that is a different thing than being inconsistent. Can you demonstrate to me how he's been inconsistent, as opposed to simply changing his mind?
And for the 4th point, I'd have to ask how again his behavior towards these players reads as "buddying" rather than simple townie cooperation?

Silver Lantern wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:Wish Scotty was still around. Still not clear on his stance with Dys.

Silver Lantern, have you read my case that I asked you to read? Is there a universe where you see yourself voting for Dys today? How can I make that reality into our reality?

If I vote for Dys, Would you be cool with me vigilanting you if he comes up town?

Do you think if I'm wrong about Dys, I must be bad?

What about all the people who mislynched Sig? Why didn't you vigilante them?

*buzzer*

Not the confident townie answer I was hoping for. The right answer is, "I'm positive Dys is scum so I don't have any concern over you even having to consider if you'll vig me." So if you're not positive why are you trying to push his lynch?

P.S. Wigly was on Sig's lynch train.

Silver Lantern wrote:

insertnamehere wrote: I know you aren't voting MM. I'm trying to convince you to vote Dyslexicon. If we want to actually learn something from this day, we need to get something going here.

It boggles my mind how you people have no proble "learning something" by whittling down town #s, but yet asking someone to share a night result is like kissing a leper...

insertnamehere wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:Wish Scotty was still around. Still not clear on his stance with Dys.

Silver Lantern, have you read my case that I asked you to read? Is there a universe where you see yourself voting for Dys today? How can I make that reality into our reality?

If I vote for Dys, Would you be cool with me vigilanting you if he comes up town?

Do you think if I'm wrong about Dys, I must be bad?

What about all the people who mislynched Sig? Why didn't you vigilante them?

Silver Lantern wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:Wish Scotty was still around. Still not clear on his stance with Dys.

Silver Lantern, have you read my case that I asked you to read? Is there a universe where you see yourself voting for Dys today? How can I make that reality into our reality?

If I vote for Dys, Would you be cool with me vigilanting you if he comes up town?

Sloonei wrote:What do you think is the single most compelling point against Dyslexicon?

Sloonei wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:QUESTION FOR EVERYONE:

Would you rather Dyslexicon be lynched, or no one be lynched?

I'll take somebody over nobody unless that somebody is me or someone I am 100% certain is town.

Quin wrote:

Quin wrote:

Long Con wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I am a bit disappointed that my Axis of Evil theory proved wholly false.

At least me, Quin, and LC can take pride in our inaccuracy.

At least we were wrong... together.

Next time the three of us have compatible reads, we should probably just reassess everything.

Quin wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:I believe this is what they call 'put up or shut up time.'

Sloonei, what about the Dyslexicon case do you not understand? Why are you so apprehensive to vote for him?

You, me and LC are on the same page again. How does this make you feel?

Quin wrote:I'm still mixing up he's and she's. Problem is I don't actually know so Sorry.

Sloonei wrote:Also @ INH, do you have any strong suspects besides Dyslexicon?

Sloonei wrote:Do you have anything specific to say against my case on Scotty?

speedchuck wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

speedchuck wrote:insertnamehere - posted a huge thing against Dys, and I only agreed with one point on it. The rest looked like a scum filter over earnest attempts to help the town and one blunder. wasn't a huge fan beforehand, either.

The one point I did agree with on it is that Dizzy seems to go after people that considered him neutral. I don't really consider that scummy, but...

Dizzy has said like five times that they are suspicious of me, and haven't sent a vote or an explanation my way. Calling you out, Dizzybro. Put er up.

Might be voting INH in another few posts, or I might keep scotty or marmot. The culture here says not to throw your vote around every other post, so I won't.

What makes me bad, speedchunk? I'd appreciate a straight answer.

Also, what's the "one blunder" in my ISO you reference?

The blunder was the thing about Dizzy attacking certain people. His blunder, not yours.

It was the rest I disagreed with. And, I'll admit, I haven't done an ISO on you, nor built a case. I just can't remember any reasons to put you as town, and I'm on Dizzy's side regarding the ISO. It seems more like you were taking a player who had a shaky spot in this game earlier, assuming he's scum, and coming up with evidence to push that viewpoint.

Edit before posting: Your post about the case on mM is quite good, though. I like it.

Sloonei wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Sloonei wrote:One thing that I did not like, though, was his loyalty to Metalmarsh in the whole map business, which seems like it may be spreading out into the game in general. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe INH had any serious reason to trust the Marmot on Day 0 when he voted to give him the map, but he seems to have continued to trust him with some reliance on this premise deeper into the game (and I don't just mean with regards to the map claims. I believe there was some soft Marmot defense in INH's Dizzy ISO). I'd like to hear more about that.

While I do not agree with all of his case against Dyslexicon, I also think it looks believable and I like the contribution INH has made with that case. I've never seen a scum INH, but this looks like his usual town self so far. I would, however, like to hear some expanded thoughts from him. We know where he stands on Dizzy. What about Metalmarsh? What about Jay? What about Golden? He was an early suspect; what has become of that now?

I'll be up front. I don't get the case against MM. The parts of it that I do get remind me of the case against Sig, and the one against myself, both of which I know to be BS.

I can't help but think if I hadn't shown up with my big ol' ISO, I'd be the one people were pressuring others about. If MM were here right now, responding to people, defending himself, I doubt he'd be in the lead with the votes.

There seems to be a trend of voting out "controversial" players when they aren't around to defend themselves. It took sig, and I'm worried it's gonna take MM too. That's a big reason why I wish sprityo was as active in posting the vote tallies as he was D1. I'd be very interested in the overlap between the Sig and MM voters.

It feels like the path of least resistance to me.

Jay and Golden I'm indifferent towards currently. I feel better about Jay than I do Golden, but I'm not about to scum read either of them.

Having ISO'd metalmarsh after ISOing you, I fully agree with your stance on him. The little snippets of case I've seen against him don't strike me as anything I'd base a vote off of.

What do you think of Scotty and Elohcin? They are the two players I am most likely to vote for right now.

Sloonei wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:I'm assuming MM is in the lead, right?

How does this make you feel?

Sloonei wrote:One thing that I did not like, though, was his loyalty to Metalmarsh in the whole map business, which seems like it may be spreading out into the game in general. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe INH had any serious reason to trust the Marmot on Day 0 when he voted to give him the map, but he seems to have continued to trust him with some reliance on this premise deeper into the game (and I don't just mean with regards to the map claims. I believe there was some soft Marmot defense in INH's Dizzy ISO). I'd like to hear more about that.

While I do not agree with all of his case against Dyslexicon, I also think it looks believable and I like the contribution INH has made with that case. I've never seen a scum INH, but this looks like his usual town self so far. I would, however, like to hear some expanded thoughts from him. We know where he stands on Dizzy. What about Metalmarsh? What about Jay? What about Golden? He was an early suspect; what has become of that now?

speedchuck wrote:insertnamehere - posted a huge thing against Dys, and I only agreed with one point on it. The rest looked like a scum filter over earnest attempts to help the town and one blunder. wasn't a huge fan beforehand, either.

The one point I did agree with on it is that Dizzy seems to go after people that considered him neutral. I don't really consider that scummy, but...

Dizzy has said like five times that they are suspicious of me, and haven't sent a vote or an explanation my way. Calling you out, Dizzybro. Put er up.

Might be voting INH in another few posts, or I might keep scotty or marmot. The culture here says not to throw your vote around every other post, so I won't.