The Syndicate

Scotty wrote:Wtf is going on. You people talk too much.

Are we all claiming? Is that what's going on? Sloonei's got a gun and he's trained it against either me or LC now eh? I still want to believe Quin is the good one and jack is the bad one in all of this, and apparently Justin like yesterday, you guys seem to keep talking yourself out of it.

I can claim too- I don't really give a shit anymore, because I've been far too inactive to utilize it my full potential and may be running out of opportunities in this clusterfuck with all these more powerful claims.

My role? I'm a fucking stump.

What does it mean that you are too busy to utilize your full potential? Maybe it will make more sense when I find out what a stump is.

Ok, just a couple of things this morning.

First, what is a stump?

Second, could someone describe what "protective role" means?

Third, I want to make sure people understand I'm not claiming doctor.

Fourth, instead of a rainbow which seems impossible right now I'll give you my thoughts on people. 1 is "civ for sure" and 6 is "I'm sure you are bad":

Jay - 1 - no change from yesterday

Dizzy - 1 - no change

Sloonei - 1 - no change

speedchuck - 2 - no change

Eloh - 2 : She was yellow yesterday but after I read JJJ's assessment and thought about my own assessment (how much she participated in Unfortunate Events even though she moved during that game, how she had 40 posts in two days in Transistor, and how she voted for herself) I've come to the conclusion she is good. I wish she would get replaced.

Scotty - 3 - This may change once I find ut what a stump is. Is it something Scotty could prove with his night actions?

Golden - 3 - Golden was light green yesterday. JJJ's interaction analysis is the primary reason I have dropped him a little. I need to re-read that in light of Golden's defense and look through Golden's posts in general.

Fred - 3 - I read his posts and it seemed he mentioned Jack was probably bad a lot yet doesn't rate Jack in his top two. I thought this was odd. Fred, have you been burned badly by Jack in the past? It feels like you think you have to keep mentioning him as bad.

Jack - 3 - Jack was on the bottom of my pile yesterday but has moved up after last night. He could be distancing from Quin but his posts feel like he really thinks Quin is trying to pull one over on us. He's not a 2 though because of the distancing possibility.

Long Con - 4 - This is low because of process of elimination. I suck at reading LC. As I told the other group I once handed him the game when I was a civ and he was a baddie so I am naturally wary of him.

Strawhenge - 4 - Much the same as LC. I just don't see a lot of content here but I'll read him again and see if I can get more comfortable

Soneji - 5 - As I've said I don't like the Fred vote in the INH lynch and he's been so absent. If he shows up today I hope he will give reads so I can judge him better. I really don't want to mislynch him twice in two weeks.

Quin - 5 - I agonized over this rating and I admit Speedchuck's answer to my question last night has a lot to do with it. I just don't believe there are two doctors in a game this small when sprityo comes from a site that doesn't utilize that dynamic. Quin's posts come across as very genuine though and I want to believe he is who he claims. With that said, he came across genuine in Mad Max too. He's a master of mafia.

I'm going to pay attention to my other game now and hope somebody wanders in to this one who can answer my questions and might want to give some reads so I can bounce off of them.

And with that, gentlemen and lady (nutella) I'm going to bed.

I have no idea where I will put people on a read list in the morning.

speedchuck, in your experience on sprityo's site have you seen games with the set up JJJ is talking about?

Sloonei wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Theory:

Three similar supportive civilian roles. They are balanced in that they don't always work -- see: paranoid/insane/naive cops. Doctors have similar variants. Quin is one such variant. His shit didn't work because he's a wack ass doctor.

This is an intriguing theory but I struggle to buy into it without further clarification on roles. I do not wish to ask anyone to roleclaim, though.

How likely do you think it is that juliets did what she just did as a baddie?

Unlikely. But I am still unclear on the exact nature of what her role is, or what exactly your proposal would entail. Based on her reaction, it seems she may be some sort of a protective role.

I'm unsure how much information to give out - I'm in totally new territory in terms of my mafia experience. I don't think it's in the best interest for me to claim.

Quin wrote:

juliets wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

juliets wrote:

Sloonei wrote:The thing that gives Quin an advantage over Jack in my eyes is that Quin has been unafraid to get right in the middle of things all game long. He's repeatedly thrust himself into the spotlight and been comfortable there. Jackofhearts has been around, but I can't say that he's been as directly involved in as many things as Quin.

I also have begun to feel increasingly good that at least one of Long Con and Juliets is bad, and I've seen no reason why they can't both be. The radio silence across the board (from everyone, not just those two) since shortly after I exposed my gun has been intriguing. We've had a lot of names lurking at the bottom of the page and most of them are silent. Speak up, anyone!

I am here. I am listening to what everyone has to say and will have revised reads in the morning.

I also want to ask what the probability is that there is are two doctor roles.

The only way I can see there being two doctors is if one targets on even-nights and the other on odd. I would not bet on it though.

Do you have no immediate thoughts to share right now on any of the stuff that's going on?

Yes, I do. I was waiting on clarification from the host on something which I now have and given the answer to your question, I do not believe Quin is telling the truth. I am not claiming doctor.

I would expect an actual justification for this after seeing my name in every post for the past 24 hours. juliets has just given herself precedent for a vote if the chance arises.

I'm not sure what you mean by me having given myself precedent for a vote.

Oh, interesting theory JJJ about three roles that don't always work. That is possible.

Sloonei wrote:

juliets wrote:

Sloonei wrote:The thing that gives Quin an advantage over Jack in my eyes is that Quin has been unafraid to get right in the middle of things all game long. He's repeatedly thrust himself into the spotlight and been comfortable there. Jackofhearts has been around, but I can't say that he's been as directly involved in as many things as Quin.

I also have begun to feel increasingly good that at least one of Long Con and Juliets is bad, and I've seen no reason why they can't both be. The radio silence across the board (from everyone, not just those two) since shortly after I exposed my gun has been intriguing. We've had a lot of names lurking at the bottom of the page and most of them are silent. Speak up, anyone!

I am here. I am listening to what everyone has to say and will have revised reads in the morning.

I also want to ask what the probability is that there is are two doctor roles.

The only way I can see there being two doctors is if one targets on even-nights and the other on odd. I would not bet on it though.

Do you have no immediate thoughts to share right now on any of the stuff that's going on?

Yes, I do. I was waiting on clarification from the host on something which I now have and given the answer to your question, I do not believe Quin is telling the truth. I am not claiming doctor.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:The thing that gives Quin an advantage over Jack in my eyes is that Quin has been unafraid to get right in the middle of things all game long. He's repeatedly thrust himself into the spotlight and been comfortable there. Jackofhearts has been around, but I can't say that he's been as directly involved in as many things as Quin.

I think this is a positive for both of them, and it's supported by the post count chart. I think Quin's perspectives have generally seemed more organic (I've gotten a few vibes that Jack is following thread trends as much as developing personal reads), but I think they've both been heavily involved in most relevant dialogues.

You should do an ISO on juliets if time permits. Your suspicion of her is pretty vague.

I agree, you should iso me.

Sloonei wrote:The thing that gives Quin an advantage over Jack in my eyes is that Quin has been unafraid to get right in the middle of things all game long. He's repeatedly thrust himself into the spotlight and been comfortable there. Jackofhearts has been around, but I can't say that he's been as directly involved in as many things as Quin.

I also have begun to feel increasingly good that at least one of Long Con and Juliets is bad, and I've seen no reason why they can't both be. The radio silence across the board (from everyone, not just those two) since shortly after I exposed my gun has been intriguing. We've had a lot of names lurking at the bottom of the page and most of them are silent. Speak up, anyone!

I am here. I am listening to what everyone has to say and will have revised reads in the morning.

I also want to ask what the probability is that there is are two doctor roles.

Sloonei wrote:

juliets wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I'm also a little suspicious of Long Con and Juliets. But I still feel like I should shoot either Jack or Quin.

I know this isn't top priority but why are you suspicious of me?

I have a lot of town reads in this game and DFaraday was a complete non-entity. If I am going to trust my ability to identify town reads, then process of elimination says you have a pretty good chance of being scum.

Ok, I can see how that could be the case. I'm not a baddie though.

Dyslexicon wrote:

juliets wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I'm also a little suspicious of Long Con and Juliets. But I still feel like I should shoot either Jack or Quin.

I know this isn't top priority but why are you suspicious of me?

Because you're name is an annagram of "just lie".

That is hysterical. I may have to put that in my sig.

Sloonei wrote:I'm also a little suspicious of Long Con and Juliets. But I still feel like I should shoot either Jack or Quin.

I know this isn't top priority but why are you suspicious of me?

I didn't think about baddie - baddie as I read through Quin and Jack's dialogue but I certainly see the argument for it. After watching zebra and Mac personally attack each other in a game for the sake of distance I can't believe I didn't think of it in this case. I will read back through their dialogue and also Jack's dialogue with regards to wanting to be paired with Quin and Sloonei. I won't do that until tomorrow though because I'm too tired tonight.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Would love someone besides JJJ and I to weigh in on Marmot's evaluation of Eloh's meta.

I've read it as a slight point against her. JJJ read it as a null thing.

I read it null. I looked at two of Elo's games over the night period, Unfortunate Events and Transistor and it seemed like she posted a good amount. My impression of her without looking at more games is the same as what MM said, i.e., that she is more involved when bad. She also voted herself which didn't strike me as something she would do as bad. The other side of that is the post JJJ brought up that was almost exactly like her vote for Dys. All in all, the reason she ends up a "don't know yet" on my read list is I think her rl situation last week trumps any conventional wisdom I might be using to make a read.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Would also love any evaluations of my previously stated group, especially Sonjei and Straw.

I have proven to be a bad reader of Soneji, having just voted to lynch him in GOC for not providing reads. That said, I'm not wild about the fact that he left his vote on Fred when we were trying to decide the INH v. JOH lynch. Strawhenge is here now so maybe I can get a better picture of him/her(?).

Strawhenge wrote:Jay: Mostly, end of pg. 66.

speedchuck: as of the end of pg. 66, Quin's not looking great.

Just fyi, we are probably not all on the same page number. I'm set to 100 ppp for example (makes multi-quoting easier) so I only have 28 pages total for this game.

Fredwood wrote:

juliets wrote:Dang, Fred got out of here without answering my question.

Fred, you probably didn't see this because it was in a longer post but here's my question:

Do you think it's believable that Jack would have not killed Silver Lantern, and argued with teammates not to kill him, because of his community outlook on Lantern's participation? I'm asking you because from what I gather you know Jack the best and come from the same community.

Don't know, Silver being the vig is sticky. I would agree that he would have argued against killing Silver in a normal situation. With him saying he was vig I think that argument gets shot down by the other mafia.

So, I'm not saying he did or didn't argue that Silver shouldn't be killed, but that it wouldn't have mattered because he was overridden or didn't have a better alternative. I certainly don't view Silver's death as proof of his innocence.

Yeah I wasn't focused on the rest of the team when I started thinking about this last night. Thanks.

Do you still see Scotty and Soneji (and maybe Quin, I wasn't sure if your list was in order or not) above Jack on your list of people you think are bad?

linki

Dang, Fred got out of here without answering my question.

Fred, you probably didn't see this because it was in a longer post but here's my question:

Do you think it's believable that Jack would have not killed Silver Lantern, and argued with teammates not to kill him, because of his community outlook on Lantern's participation? I'm asking you because from what I gather you know Jack the best and come from the same community.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Off the top of my head, I can think of five town roles that I would have targeted roughly the same players with on the same nights.

Do you think there'd be any harm in stating those five?

Not at all.

Doctor
Bodyguard
Nexus
Guide
Unculter

Could you tell me what a Nexus, Guide and Unculter are?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

juliets wrote:**Because he seems to have disappeared but unlike Elo hasn't asked for replacement. I need to read through his posts.

Thanks for the reads, juliets. I think you forgot Elohcin though; where'd she be situated on the ol' rainbow?

I think I also forgot Quin.

Quin would be in light green and Eloh would be in yellow.

JJJ
Sloonei
Dyslexicon
Golden
speedchuck*

Scotty
Long Con
Fredwood
Soneji

Strawhenge**
Jack of Hearts***

*If there was a color that was a lighter green thats where I would rate speedchuck. I read through his posts and like what he was saying about the Dyslexicon suspicions while they were going on and otherwise he seemed to be trying to analyze and give his view on things. I agree with the school of thought the he could have just not voted for MM and that been seen as ok. This is really a gut read, I don't know him at all.
**Because he seems to have disappeared but unlike Elo hasn't asked for replacement. I need to read through his posts.
**Still at the bottom but I am re-evaluating based on his Silver Lantern claim.

If someone moves into solid red I will place a vote for them.

Scotty wrote:

juliets wrote:

Scotty wrote:

juliets wrote:

Scotty wrote:Ima not be talking a lot this phase again unfortunately, since I have a long couple of days ahead of me.

I also didn't do shit last night for my role because I forgot to come in and activate in time. Sorry to disappoint, Sloon.

Scotty, the fact that you forgot to come in and activate in time makes me a little nervous.

Why

Because it was such a big deal yesterday, you proving yourself, and I don't see how you would forget. I don't work though so maybe I am projecting my ability to remember things I need to do in mafia onto you. That's why I say a "little" nervous.

Ah yea, then I guess it's a misunderstanding. I was only around for a hot seconf all of yesterday and in doing so I used it to catch up on what I missed from EoD. I didn't get around to activating because I forgot to do so in my 20 min catch up.

That it makes you "nervous" is still a weird phrasing. Nervous about whether or not I'm good, I guess?

Yes, nervous that I have you rated as a 3 on a scale of 1-6 with the only caveat being that I might tend to halo you because of GOC. "Nervous" is not an unusual state for me though in general.

And sure I'll try some reads. I have a lot of yellow.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Is fake claiming never a thing here?

I see Nut, JJJ and Silver with verifiable claims.

Quin and Scotty could be vanilla given their claims and the actual results we've seen.

What's the reasoning behind automatically believing such role claims as several people (some confirmed town) have done?

Fake claiming is almost never done here because it generally isn't allowed. It's hard for me to know what to make of them. I'm trying not to automatically believe them though.

Scotty wrote:

juliets wrote:

Scotty wrote:Ima not be talking a lot this phase again unfortunately, since I have a long couple of days ahead of me.

I also didn't do shit last night for my role because I forgot to come in and activate in time. Sorry to disappoint, Sloon.

Scotty, the fact that you forgot to come in and activate in time makes me a little nervous.

Why

Because it was such a big deal yesterday, you proving yourself, and I don't see how you would forget. I don't work though so maybe I am projecting my ability to remember things I need to do in mafia onto you. That's why I say a "little" nervous.

Scotty wrote:Ima not be talking a lot this phase again unfortunately, since I have a long couple of days ahead of me.

I also didn't do shit last night for my role because I forgot to come in and activate in time. Sorry to disappoint, Sloon.

Scotty, the fact that you forgot to come in and activate in time makes me a little nervous.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Juliets

Didn't say it was.

Still want people to give reads on you. My concern is the low amount of focus ON you (and Fred, LC, Sonjei, etc), not FROM you. I'm concerned at the low amount of focus FROM some of the people I listed, too.

I don't have strong feelings one way or the other about your alignment. While that's not your fault, it is a problem.

Oh ok I misunderstood your post.

Long Con wrote:I don't have a lot of time right now, I just wanted to catch up on the night's posts. I'll just give a rainbow for now, then do farm chores, shower, and go to work... arriving home in perhaps 5 hours from now, give or take half an hour. Then some family time and dinner, but that still leaves time within that 13 hours before lynch time.

Nutella
Golden
Dyslexicon
Quin
Sloonei
Elohcin
juliets
Soneji
insertnamehere
Fredwood
Scotty
Strawhenge
Jackofhearts
JJJ
Speedchuck

LC, I forgot to ask you yesterday what made you read me as orange? Also, are there any of these reads you would change at this point?

I am dead tired by 11:00 at night and just stayed up long enough last night to see who died so I missed the conversation. I'm not looking forward to an 11:00 EOD as I just am not good at evaluating fast moving evidence at that time of night. I also don't know how any of the European people are going to make it that late. I have an idea I'm going to propose to sprityo to try and get him to move the time back to 10:00 pm but we'll see.

Quin wrote:I'll also say that the reason I didn't join her on the marmot wagon at the time was because I didn't entirely trust her at the time. I did consider it though.

Quin, I can't tell if you did this last night but could you possibly remember why you didn't trust her by reviewing her posts that day?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Soneji, I'd love to hear about your worthless Day 3 vote.

I didn't understand this vote either. It seemed like you didn't want to take a stand in the main debate. Also Soneji, will you give some reads in this game or is this something you are always fundamentally opposed to?

Sloonei wrote: How are we all feeling about JOH today? Did he convince everyone not to lynch him, or did INH make himself too lynchable to miss?

After reading back over Jack's posts EOD I do want to consider Jack's claim that he wouldn't have killed Silver Lantern. Trouble is I don't know Jack at all so the best way I know to assess this claim is ask Fred who seems to know Jack well what he things about it. Does this ring as true Fred? I apologize if I missed your assessment in my reading, feel free to link me back if I did.

Sloonei wrote:I have apparently voted to travel West. I do not recall doing this.

I forgot to vote - I apologize. I don't really understand the criteria we are using to make a decision so would appreciate someone explaining that. I don't want to go backward again like we apparently did last night though so I hope someone will recap where we've been (I think someone last night asked for that).

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Sonjei, Eloh, Straw and to an extent, LC, Juliets, Fred and Scotty don't have nearly as much content as the top posters. What do you make of them?

I will not be a top poster in this game because I missed time and am spending a lot of time trying to get my feet under me, but that is not alignment indicative.

Quin wrote: nutella should not be dead. I protected her. I protect on odd nights. From that I've concluded either I was role blocked, or the killer has a strongman role.

Quin I don't get this at all. Why would you role claim this role? You said later in the dialogue you would rather die at night than get lynched but why? That doesn't make sense to me when the roles are revealed no matter how you die. Let if be said though that I didn't understand why Silver Lantern role claimed either so it's entirely possible I just don't understand the dynamic of role claiming important roles in a closed set up. I'm not saying I'm going to vote for you because of it, I'm not inclined to vote for you right now. I need to understand though why you did it.

Great game nutella - I will definitely miss you. RIP

Golden I can recall two games where Elo was bad and engaged, one of them I was baddie with her, but I don't remember which games they were. I realize thats not very helpful but I offer it for what it's worth. I think both games were smaller games. I thought she was probably good this game because I didn't see her posting but only "probably" because she had a bad week last week rl.

linki a million times

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

juliets wrote:I haven't read INH. I know he built a case on Dyslexicon which I read and found to be lacking. Is the case abasing him that he argued a case that went against Marmot? Is there anything else to consider?

linki - nutella i see your point about him not showing up today

more linki

There's nothing else INH has done but pursue Dizzy.

Even if he's wrong on Dizzy and Marmot, he's not playing like a townie.

Are you saying he's not playing like a townie because he's not considering alternatives? I'm not arguing the point, just trying to clarify.

linki

EBWOP: "case against him"

I haven't read INH. I know he built a case on Dyslexicon which I read and found to be lacking. Is the case abasing him that he argued a case that went against Marmot? Is there anything else to consider?

linki - nutella i see your point about him not showing up today

more linki

OH SORRY - you meant the word typical! I thought it was some mafia term I didn't know!

Fredwood wrote:
<snip>

lol, I literally said it in the post. Based of the bickering between the 3 of you, my assumption is that one is scum trying to confuse the sheep from following blindly. If you pro and con it, JJJ and Golden have more pros then you (eluded to some specific instances in the post and some others that I chose not to get into because I have mentioned them previously), so thus (POE) you are trailing in the civ read department atm. I said that I don't think it's a strong enough case to lynch you at the moment, but apparently this is the way the wind is blowing. I'm a careful and patient voter, and I don't think I'm just a follower, I will say that I will be unlikely to vote for you this phase barring some dramatic revelation or argument that I hadn't considered, but I do think I've been nothing if consistent in my reads of everyone, which I admit may just be confirmation bias.

Fred, who are you looking at voting for this round?

link - I don't know what a "typical is"

Fredwood wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

juliets wrote:

Quin wrote:Vote JOH

Because shapes.

Ok, I was trying not to place the 5th vote but since its been placed I am voting now. I'm not sure I understand what the hammer vote is.

Vote JOH

Wait...am I already dead?

No, I think there's still only 4 votes on you, hammer would be 9 I think, soft would be 5

I was confused earlier and thought 5 was the hammer. I actually think there are 6 votes out there on Jack. Quin was 5, I was 6. I don't think anyone has voted since have they?

Quin wrote:Vote JOH

Because shapes.

Ok, I was trying not to place the 5th vote but since its been placed I am voting now. I'm not sure I understand what the hammer vote is.

Vote JOH

Sloonei wrote:Fredwood, Elo, and juliets are supposed to be null yellow, but I was trying to avoid the plain yellow shade because I've heard it can be difficult to read on certain backgrounds.

Yes thank you, it is very difficult for me to read that "null yellow" and also that neonish bright green.

Sloonei wrote:Scotty has felt authentic today. I'm not prepared to call him a town read, but I think I'm starting to feel better about voting Jackofhearts than Scotty today. That is partly a deferral to others. I trust nutella, and she suspects him. She also has a Town ID on Jay, so I trust his analysis which points to JoH as bad. And I am skeptical of his Marmot interactions, as I just detailed above. That's enough for me, at least right now.

vote Jackofhearts

I read through JOH's posts and I don't see anything else I can point to to add to this list and I do agree there is enough to vote him but I don't know where the vote is right now so I'm going to hold off. I don't think we're at hammer but we could be at 4 and I don't want to get that close this early.

I'm going to read Fredwood's posts who I had initially positive thoughts about coming into the game in light of the JOH baddie reads.

Scotty, I would put you at a 3.

I know you say your frustration isn't an alignment indicator but I checked Red vs. Blue and didn't feel like you expressed anywhere near the frustration you expressed here. Plus, I remember how angry you were at that fake peak thing in GOC where you were good. I believe you that your lack of expression earlier was due to constraints of time and internet availability so your explanation that the timing of your passion was just coincidental with my asking rings true. And some of it is just gut. I guess the only reason I have you as high as a 3 is I'm cognizant that my read of you may be colored by the fact that I didn't have enough wits about me to defend you in that final two minutes before your Lynch in GOC and I may be letting guilt influence my read.

And you should know I could never explain a read in one sentence!

linki

speedchuck wrote: <snip>
These posts are by no means comprehensive, just a few notes I took. Peopl seem to want up to date responses from me, so ask me questions right this moment, please. Esp you, Scotty, as people want me to address your stuff, and I don't want to track it down.

Again, apologies. I suck at being here on weekends.

speedchuck, here is Scotty's post about you that is the subject of discussion if you want to respond to it. I tried twice to put it in spoiler tabs but couldn't get it to work for some reason. Apologies to all.

Scotty wrote:

Speedchuck wrote:7. I had opinions on Marmot. They were bad. They've been pacified by people who know him. If it weren't for their assurance, he'd be in my top three to lynch

Why? No you didn't. They were

speedchuck wrote:I gave 80% of this list, but it was spread over my posts today.

Fredwood
Golden
Nutella


Sloonei
Dyslexicon
Quin - I disagree a lot with Quin's reads. They don't seem like shade, though. D2 much higher than D1

Soneji
Silver Lantern
Strawhenge
JJJ

JackofHearts
LongCon

MM (marmot)
Scotty - My whole case from earlier. Also, when he responded, he said I was tunnelling, told me to ISO marmot. 1 post later, said marmot was town. Only read he gave was on INH.

insertnamehere - posted a huge thing against Dys, and I only agreed with one point on it. The rest looked like a scum filter over earnest attempts to help the town and one blunder. wasn't a huge fan beforehand, either.

The one point I did agree with on it is that Dizzy seems to go after people that considered him neutral. I don't really consider that scummy, but...

Dizzy has said like five times that they are suspicious of me, and haven't sent a vote or an explanation my way. Calling you out, Dizzybro. Put er up.

Might be voting INH in another few posts, or I might keep scotty or marmot. The culture here says not to throw your vote around every other post, so I won't.

Remembering this.
Right before this post, Nutella votes MM to start it. Immediately after this post, speed votes MM. So he's following his promise, and has just said he won't throw his vote around every other post. Having these options open are great and can keep him ingratiated in the town's eyes if the tides turn on MM, which they did.

Let's move on.

speedchuck wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

speedchuck wrote:I have no issue with any of those four lynches, though the idea of a Chinese Fire Drill scares me.

^Here's you saying you don't want to switch off that four person group, Speed.

Am I misinterpreting that? You said I was lying...

Ah. I take that back.
No, you weren't intentionally lying.
Yes, you were misinterpreting it. The Chinese fire drill referred to switching off of SIG and onto another of those four people: sig, Elohcin, Sorsha/replacement, and DrWilgy. With the JJJ question in context, and as close to the end of the day as we were, I thought that was pretty clear. Just because I have no issue with the four lynches, doesn't mean I wasn't happy with others (though I'd have to look at my opinions at the time to tell you which ones). The CFD applied to those four, and to JJJ's question.

So I didn't want to switch in the four person group, in context.
You can still consider that scummy, if you want, though. I, being used to week-long cycles, am normally quite upset if there's no clear lynch by 5 hours till deadline. CFD in a 48 hour day is frightening.

Quite. As we would find out, the last 30 minutes was a cluster fuck.

speedchuck wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Assignment #2 is complete.

Remember when I said this?:

Sloonei wrote:A note: When I've caught Scotty as scum before, it's been for contradictions and inconsistencies in his behavior.

Well...

That post was the main reason I wasn't trying to push Scotty. I'd be happy to vote Scotty, honestly happier than with Marmot.

If most of the active players would give reads of Scotty and Marmot, that'd be fantastic. Maybe throw some INH vs Dizzy in there, which most of you are already doing.
I think we have many better options for a lynch than Eloh, if anyone is still on them.

My preference of lynch, in order:
1. Scotty
2. Marmot/INH (Tie, really)

This post was made right after Sloonei votes for me.

Speed then went full throttle, since Sloonei gave him the out he needed, and started pushing his preference of Scotty>Marmot. How great.

Both of these posts make me feel bad about Both Sloonei and Speed. As if they were patting themselves on the back as if they've solved a riddle on Blues Clues.

A little over an hour after his vote for MM, who was leading the lynch, comes:

speedchuck wrote:

Sloonei wrote: I'm gonna start advocating for a Scotty lynch. Hey everyone, why aren't you voting for Scotty?

Because you meta-readers shut me down when I originally advocated for it.

Vote Scotty

Oh, so that's all it took? Remember that post he made an hour ago saying he wouldn't throw his post around? Yeah, here we are.

30 minutes before EoD:

Spoiler: show

speedchuck wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Do you have any more specific thoughts regarding Scotty and Metalmarsh?

Not caught up on the last bits. I think Scotty has been softly role hinting from D1, which I find more unlikely to come from scum. Though I'm not sure why he's doing it at all. I suspect Marmot more than Scotty, he seems aloof and none of the interactions I've had with him makes me feel good, and I remember him differently from the game I played here a while ago. Nut pushing on him also makes me feel better about my read.

SINCE WHEN IS MAGIC BAGGINS A TOWN MOVE

Silver Lantern wrote:

Sloonei wrote:unvote Scotty

I am currently voting for nobody. Since he suggested in his latest post that he can prove his towniness with role shenanigans, I'm willing to give him a chance to do that.

You're gonna fall for that ploy? Wow, I take back anything good I ever said about you...

OH THANK GOD

Quin wrote:I would prefer that Eloh be replaced, rather than lynched. Voting for her feels like a cop out at this point.

THANK YOU

insertnamehere wrote:QUESTION FOR EVERYONE:

Would you rather Dyslexicon be lynched, or no one be lynched?

NO

insertnamehere wrote:Yo, Elochin, I see you reading the thread.

Vote Dyslexicon.

Pretty please.

NO!

Silver Lantern wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:Wish Scotty was still around. Still not clear on his stance with Dys.

Silver Lantern, have you read my case that I asked you to read? Is there a universe where you see yourself voting for Dys today? How can I make that reality into our reality?

If I vote for Dys, Would you be cool with me vigilanting you if he comes up town?

DANGIT YOU WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO REVEAL THAT YOU COULD DO THAT, EVEN JOKINGLY

Silver Lantern wrote:

insertnamehere wrote: I know you aren't voting MM. I'm trying to convince you to vote Dyslexicon. If we want to actually learn something from this day, we need to get something going here.

It boggles my mind how you people have no proble "learning something" by whittling down town #s, but yet asking someone to share a night result is like kissing a leper...

THANK YOU AS WELL

Sorry about all of the caps, it's a good way to tell my writing apart from the posts in notepad. Also the thread is falling apart holy crap.

Insertnamehere is chasing a lynch for possible town reasons, but in the scummiest way possible.
Sounds like him.

Gonna figure out where to go in the next 40 minutes. Happiest with a Scotty lynch (sorry scotty, but I don't know your meta, and everything you've said since I did my ISO screames at me for lynching)

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:QUESTION FOR EVERYONE:

Would you rather Dyslexicon be lynched, or no one be lynched?

I'll take somebody over nobody unless that somebody is me or someone I am 100% certain is town.

I'll state the obvious. You're one of the few active voters who is still up in the air.

I know you aren't voting MM. I'm trying to convince you to vote Dyslexicon. If we want to actually learn something from this day, we need to get something going here.

I agree. I am trying very hard to figure out where my vote should go, but I'm feeling very scatterbrained right now.

Follow my lead.

Vote Lynch Metalmarsh89

CRAP

Wtf was that post. Why does he say CRAP when Mm votes himself?
And why does he keep referencing that he would rather lynch me over Mm, if MM still is on his bad list? Why not just go along with the crowd, if he really wanted MM lynched?

Followed 5 minutes later by THIS post:

speedchuck wrote:

insertnamehere wrote: What about if we just go ahead and lynch Dys, then you can figure out me and Marmot's alignment?

What is I think you're all three town ATM

Wtf? What the actual fuck? What happened to the red MM/INH/Scotty being your biggest scum reads? Now the first two are TOWN?

speedchuck wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

insertnamehere wrote: What about if we just go ahead and lynch Dys, then you can figure out me and Marmot's alignment?

What is I think you're all three town ATM

I don't understand.

Your last rainbow says otherwise.

Some things have changes since my last rainbow.

If you two are scum (yes you are lumped together), you have GIGANTIC BALLS to be pulling all of this. TBH, I almost think I'm wrong about Dizzy now. Almost. Not quite.

I can hardly keep up with the posts right now.

Scotty is my most confident read too.
SL, I believe you now because of the reveal that you have more vigs. Falsifiable and unbalanced as scum. Good for my read, bad for your survivability. Protectives take note. Wish you hadn't said that.

WOW is anyone else seeing this? Mm even calls him out on it, which in and of itself is pure WIFOM, but he's all but dropped his suspicion of anyone else except me. I'd bet on him if he were a horse, because he's got LAZER FOCUS.

Then has the gall to say that bit about Silver probably not surviving. Even if speed is town, this is such a twrrrrrrible point to keep hammering home.

speedchuck wrote:

nutella wrote: I went over this in a post soon after INH's big ISO. I see heavy connections between INH and Marmot (there were some soft defenses in that iso post, for one thing), and I feel an anti-alignment between that pair and between Dys and JJJ because most of INH's ISO was promoting the idea that Dys and JJJ could be baddie teammates. So, if Marmot flips civ, I'd be more inclined to trust INH, and thus more inclined to entertain the notion that Dys/JJJ are bad.

I honestly can't see INH and Marmot being scum at this point. Mostly because of how blatant everything right now is with them trying to kill Dys.
But I thought all this time that Dys was town.

I do see that same thing though, yeah.

Disclaimer for me: I WILL literally vote for anyone that isn't in my SUPER DUPER town list to secure a lynch.
My SUPER DUPER town list is being shaken up.

Why do you guys post so much this close to deadline? Agh post earlier so we can sort things out

Are...are you saying INH and MM moved into your SUPER DUPER town list? WHAT ON GODS GREEN EARTH.

He's blaming everyone else on the lack of coordination at the end. It wasn't until Sloonei changed his vote to me that a player had 4 or more votes (that was Mm).

speedchuck wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

speedchuck wrote: I'm ballsy/stupid enough to do so, but Sloonei usually isn't.

My bad. Meant metalmarsh

Oops. He forgot his scum mate.
Before this, he doesn't know if they're "surescum" or "suretown". But I'm apparently ULTRA KAMAYHA MAYHA SCUM. apparently.

speedchuck wrote:Dammit

Vote mM

The final and locking vote for a lynch. Thanks to Sloonei and chuck for actually bringing a lynch today. It sure sounds like speed isn't happy about it, but HEY! It didn't end in a no-lynch, so that's good right?

If speed had just left it alone, there would be a no-lynch. But he was obviously around at EoD, and had previously expressed "opinion" that Mm was bad, so it would look fishy if he didn't respond in kind.

I dunno guys. I'm going full Speedchuck this phase and giving him all the bullshit he gave me last phase.

Except this time I think i actually caught scum

I'm feeling overwhelmed by this game this morning. It may have been a mistake for me to replace in as I don't know that I can ever catch up today and provide what I consider to be solid reads. I'm not a nighttime poster so I am really worried about a fast paced EOD tonight that I can't keep up with. I'll give some impressions based on what I read yesterday and the conversation that's taken place since I replaced in.

I have civ reads on Sloonei, nutella and Dyslexicon. Sloonei at EOD yesterday reminded me of myself in the bea vs. soneji lynch in GOC - unsure which way to go and changing his mind as he looked at different aspects of each person - so I empathize with his situation. (Sorry for those of you not in GOC, I know my reference doesn't mean anything to you.). I don't think he was trying to lead and if people looked at him as a leader that was not his fault. I also think it would have been easiest for him to stick with Scotty based on what he had posted.

I haven't read JJJ so I have no opinion but I'll do that this morning. I don't remember having seen angry JJJ before and I don't understand the anger about being suspected. Maybe I will understand better once I read him. I will say I believed his claim when I was reading through because he had asked Quin earlier in the game if anything had interfered with him in the night. But, I know nothing about claiming. It seemed convenient that the claim was of a role that had already used it's power, helping to explain why he wouldn't be a good target for a night kill which would be good if he's bad.

I wasn't reading Scotty positively when I first entered the thread because I didn't feel he was defending himself in a passionate manner like I felt he did in GOC. That has changed however and I have to say when I read his speedchuck post I though "wow, he sounds bad". I got a little nervous though that maybe my comment about Scotty not having enough passion made him think he better do something or risk being read as bad. Also I think it was JJJ that brought up Scotty's anger in Red vs. Blue and I guess he was implying that Scotty was angry there and bad. nutella seems to think he's good because of the hinting but I'm entirely unsure how to read all this blatant hinting and claiming. It's completely foreign to me. I am going to have to read Scotty in ISO again and take a look at Red vs. Blue to come to a conclusion for him as the evidence in my mind seems to cancel out. I know this won't be a popular read as most are reading him as bad and this seems wishy washy. I'll do my best to come down on one side or the other later in the day.

There was competing info about speedchuck yesterday both very good and very bad. I'll add him to my ISO list though I tend to lean toward Sloonei's assessment since I'm viewing Sloonei positively.

Please remember that I'm on day 2 of my day 1. Skimming the thread to loosely follow along is a lot different than reading to retain content and make reads. Everyone around me appears to have a lot of confidence in their reads and I have none other than my good reads. If there is anything you think would help me, anyone else I need to look closely at to help me get to a confident read on someone bad for today's lynch please let me know. Otherwise I ask you to bear with me.

I hate to interrupt but can someone explain to me what has just been discovered? Are you saying that MM did not switch Golden's action toward JJJ to Fredwood? If not, what happened?

nutella wrote:

juliets wrote:nutella, when you are finished with your speedchuck research could you talk about your suspicion of LC? I am a notoriously bad reader of him - I once handed him the game when I was a civ and he was a baddie. I did skim through his posts and saw he changed to Marmot seemingly on your recommendation which I thought was a good thing but obviously you are seeing something else in him.

A lot of it has to do with connections to other players, including Marmot. When I looked at LC's ISO I got the feeling he's a likely teammate of Marmot's based a few things, and JJJ got the same feeling from Marmot's mentions of LC. I could look back and see if I can pull up specific places that support this feeling, but it's also kind of a general vibe, and also has a lot to do with connections I see to other players who I think could be marmot buddies -- there are several I have considered, but sketchy interactional reads re: LC have been the common denominator between all of them. To be fair, I flip-flopped on LC a fair amount for the first couple days as well, so it might just be that he looks ambiguous and so people have ambiguous feelings toward him, but that's easy for a teammate to hide in, so in my mind it increases the likelihood that I'm right about at least one or two of these possible connections I'm seeing.

Ok great. Don't bother to pull up specifics - I can look for the connections. I have not reviewed JJJ yet so missed that he had a related observation.

Scotty, I take back what I said about you not having any passion. I guess I'm going to have to suck it up and read yesterday's EOD to get the full flavor.

nutella, when you are finished with your speedchuck research could you talk about your suspicion of LC? I am a notoriously bad reader of him - I once handed him the game when I was a civ and he was a baddie. I did skim through his posts and saw he changed to Marmot seemingly on your recommendation which I thought was a good thing but obviously you are seeing something else in him.

Dyslexicon wrote:

juliets wrote:Yes, that answered my question, thanks.

Can you tell me why you don't feel good about my post (not sure which it was)?

No, it's just gut at this point. (I know this can be frustrating as it's impossible to answer to). Will have to read everything more closely tomorrow. Been super busy all weekend, and need to sleep now.

Thats ok. I will surely have some gut feelings of my own before this is over.

Dyslexicon wrote:I want to put this out there:
Eloh is suspicious to me for asking Quin who to vote so near EoD. At the time Quin was voting me, and the votes very quite tied between players (scum!Marmot! among others). It's very possible to me that Eloh wanted Quin to answer her that she should vote for me. Quin answered that there are good cases for all the vote options, and Eloh proceeded to vote self. Marmot commented on this with "Scum would never do this ) or something similar.

Has she shown up today at all?


Haven't read everything, but from the very brief posts of Juliets, I don't feel particularly good. Gut reaction. I did see she had a question for me, so

@Juliets - That game was a total different situation as my meta is known there (and therefor interacts very differently, and I probably act differently as well). I had suspicion on that player who commented on my fakeslip there regardless of how she commented. Everyone else ignored the slip. Only when I brought it back up the same player started to spin it again in a way that pinged me, and then it became a minor point in an already strong suspicion (based on other things). Hope this answered your question.

Yes, that answered my question, thanks.

Can you tell me why you don't feel good about my post (not sure which it was)?

I read Scotty's posts and speedchucks case on him. Scotty, I'm not loving that you didn't put a good defense out there to what speedchuck posted. It seemed like you addressed all things that were thrown out there about you in GOC, in fact even showed anger at some (the fake peak issue) but in this case you kind of just skipped right over the accusations and didn't show any passion about there being a case. What's the reason you didn't put on a defense here?

My head is really spinning. I just read Quin, Dyslexicon and INH's case on Das.

Impressions - Dyslexicon has what I would call a freewheeling style and it's easy for me to believe he is saying things as he thinks them so the changing opinions about JJJ do not bother me. When reading Quin's comments that he had not used his fake slip to develop reads I found myself wondering if there is not just a style issue at play. It seemed to me Dyslexicon did have some observations based on reactions to the fake slip one being on Quin himself (that he was ok for believing it was a slip) and one being on Marmot (that he was baddie for ignoring the slip). There was more but I'm not remembering it as specifically as those two. I didn't think INH's case was particularly strong but I also didn't come out of reading it thinking INH was a baddie. That opinion may change when I read more of his posts (I only read the case and a few posts surrounding the case). I also didn't come away with a baddie impression of Quin though he has fooled me before so I want to be careful in assessing him.

Dyslexicon there is one question I have regarding your analysis of people post fake slip. If I read it correctly you said the last time you did this only one person commented on it and you read that person as baddie. Here though you seem to be reading the people who said something about it as civ and the people who didn't as bad. Am I misunderstanding what happened in that prior game? I know you don't think that prior game is relevant but it's the only point of reference I have on you since I know nothing of your meta.

Also, I saw there was some suspicion of DFaraday. I only saw one post from him - was the suspicion due to his low posting?

I've been reading this game for hours and will probably take a break for awhile.

nutella wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote: It's an interpretation of how I see you as a person. This 'personality read' has a lot to do with my beef against you right now.

I do not know what to say to that, other than that Sloonei the person and Sloonei the mafia player aren't the same thing.

I could not have shared all of my thoughts at the deadline yesterday because of time. Typing posts and submitting them takes a lot of time, especially when everyone else is flooding the thread with linkitis. As you have noted, I had ~5 minutes to make a decision and a brain that was overloaded with information. I was processing, but I wasn't posting everything because that would be a) impossible and b) a waste of time. In the end I decided to go with the marmot for reasons that could not have been articulated in the thread by any means.

^yeah, Quin, honestly I don't get how you don't see this. Have you reread Sloonei's last several posts before the deadline? Because he posts enough in response to my reasons against Marmot to show that he was genuinely changing his mind about him enough to justify his vote. And then he changes his vote, says "balls to the wall" and "call it gut trust in nutella." I don't know what more you wanted from him as justification. That's a legit, genuine, open-minded process of last-minute decision making that I can totally relate to as I'm sure I've been in the same boat as a civ before many times. Flip-flops happen, and sometimes they happen frantically in a nail-biting, lynch-determining way.

Ok I just finished reading through Sloonei's posts up through the lynch and I come out here ^. It also seems to me that it would be stupid and careless to at the last minute bus a teammate after having called him town the whole time. Wouldn't it have made more sense just to stick with a Scotty vote? If Scotty is bad it would have been a believable bus and if he was good Sloonei had already laid plenty of groundwork to justify his belief in the vote. Maybe I will feel differently after ISO'ing Quin and some of the other people doubting Sloonei but at this point I'm sticking with my initial impression that Sloonei was coming from a good place when he made his vote.

I have added Scotty to my list of people to read in ISO. If there are any interactions I should read through please point me to them and I will do so. Otherwise most of my focus is going to be on ISO's.

Oh boy, I have walked into a brouhaha that I didn't expect. I had to go to bed in the middle of the Quin- Sloonei debate sorry. I do most of my mafiaing in the morning.

Today I will focus on ISO's of Sloonei, Quin, Marmot, Dyslexicon, INH's case, LC, JOH, Fredwood, and oh-God-don't-make-me Golden. Nutella's thoughts come closest to reflecting my own, though I didn't expect the suspicion of Fredwood and LC (hence my desire to ISO). Didn't LC vote for Marmot? I hate not having the lynches to reference quickly. I guess the implication if he did is that he was bussing.

Without reading back I will say that Sloonei's behavior didn't smack of the Sloonei I know and love but my impression was he was still in catch-up mode and frantically trying to decide who to vote. Frantic doesn't describe the Sloonei I know but open mindedness does. I too had the impression that it was nutella's assuredness that convinced him in the end. It certainly convinced me as I was skimming through the other day. I have also been known to change my mind at the end of a lynch so that seemed normal to me. But - I will review in ISO and maybe see the other side.

I feel better a little better about JJJ than I did at the beginning because of his comments about the lynch end. Occams razor occurred to me as well.

Btw, a request: I use the light background instead of the dark background for the site. As such, I can't read the yellow writing at all, and I can't read the bright green at night time or early in the morning even when I highlight (my new computer highlights in a color that just further blocks out the writing in those colors). If there are other colors you can see on the black background and you can use to highlight text I would really appreciate it. Thanks!