The Syndicate

Sloonei wrote:
Golden wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I'm really curious to see what the banner for this game will look like (and I'm excited to display it ). I have to give sprityo some props for the theme. I've never seen a host invent an entire original world and story for their theme before. I was really impressed by that and it was a lot of fun to play in a game whose flavor was entirely unique to this mafia experience.
Oh, you have to sign up for LC games more often...
I've never played an LC game.

Oh wow, you must play the next one. To be fair though the most spectacular ones that I remember are LC & BR games. He doesn't do it alone.

Thank you JJJ for making me feel better.

And again, special thanks for those of you from other sites who played this game. I hope you'll stick around and play some more (I think you already are speed, yay!)

I don't think I'll play another game like this because my lack of knowledge on these terms and ways of playing was a real hindrance. I'm sorry it was so annoying for you watchers. I don't think you understand how stressful this last day was.

nutella wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
nutella wrote:Everyone seemed to ignore that post of LC's though. Even when you were all discussing the weird mafia ratio numbers, it never occurred to you that one of them might have been a fake flip.
To be fair, we all had the advantage of seeing the irony of that post. To someone who was still in the game there was no reason to read into that post at all. But you're right, it was extremely frustrating to look at it just sitting there.
Well, LC specifically used the term "forge" which would have been weird for him to make up imo, and he claimed it was used on Golden but he was obviously lying, just not about the ability itself.

Well, I have never heard of "forging". This game was full of roles/terms that I had never heard of. I don't even remember the post you are talking about. And if JJJ didn't catch it I sure wouldn't.

nutella wrote:
juliets wrote:nutella, I don't know how you would expect me to piece together Quin was good until he died and I took over and even then, it didn't make sense that I was not an odd night back up. Who ever heard of a backup role having more power than the original role? At the point where he died and I took over it really didn't matter what I thought - he was dead.
I thought that your role activation combined with LC's jokey hint at the Forge ability would be enough, even before Fred's flip. I do find it weird though that your role took over full-time for a previously odd-night only role, but I think it makes some amount of sense on a balance/game progression level.

I didn't recognize a hint from LC about forging. Anyway, JJJ put it together when I claimed as he has had enough experience to know an every night doc could be a back up for a limited doc.

nutella, I don't know how you would expect me to piece together Quin was good until he died and I took over and even then, it didn't make sense that I was not an odd night back up. Who ever heard of a backup role having more power than the original role? At the point where he died and I took over it really didn't matter what I thought - he was dead.

Quin wrote:
Golden wrote:Don't let quin fool you, he's bad to the bone!

Seriously though, the funniest thing that happened all game was jay assuming we had a hard bus style because quin and I both flipped bad together. Quin flipping bad was my plan to be town read again.
like he didn't even question it when we both flipped bad together like the day after the biggest beef of the game yet

I figured you guys had that big argument that was about nothing but semantics just to distance from each other.

JJJ figured out Quin was good though when I claimed.

linki hahaha speed!

I had just never heard of a backup anything so I couldn't put the pieces together.

Quin wrote:
juliets wrote:Wow MP wherever you are that was almost worth feeling sick to my stomach while we decided what to do!

Great game speed, when I saw your post after I had voted I thought "oh shit".

Dys, speed, Straw, Fred so great to meet you all and you all did a wonderful job.

Sloonei who did you protect? I'm guessing JJJ. Good job doing it.

Scotty, who ever heard of a stump?? Nice job, you were totally believable.

JJJ great job in this game, what would we have done without you.

Golden I'm dying to know about your targets!!! That was a mystery for almost the whole game! Good job, I was thinking you were good when you 'sploded.

Quin were you good or bad? Either way, nice job.

Loved the game sprityo!
I was the civ doctor!! I was hoping that when you got the PM that you could doctor right after I died that you'd put the pieces together and realise I was civ.

I was so confused ! Because you were odd night but I was every night - it just made not sense to me. But then JJJ put it together and told me on the last day right before he blew up.

Wow MP wherever you are that was almost worth feeling sick to my stomach while we decided what to do!

Great game speed, when I saw your post after I had voted I thought "oh shit".

Dys, speed, Straw, Fred so great to meet you all and you all did a wonderful job.

Sloonei who did you protect? I'm guessing JJJ. Good job doing it.

Scotty, who ever heard of a stump?? Nice job, you were totally believable.

JJJ great job in this game, what would we have done without you.

Golden I'm dying to know about your targets!!! That was a mystery for almost the whole game! Good job, I was thinking you were good when you 'sploded.

Quin were you good or bad? Either way, nice job.

Loved the game sprityo!

Yeah I am sorry too if it's not him. I feel like the weight of the whole game is on us. Cheers to whoever it is you did a great job.

We can't talk after my vote here so I hope sprityo gets here soon and ends this.

vote speedchuck

MovingPictures07 wrote:
juliets wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm leaning towards voting speedchuck actually after mulling over it and reading all of this. The Bellic thing doesn't add up. Strawhenge is giving a genuine effort.

I was giving him points earlier for these posts as well as the fact that I've found him generally very logical and sincere, as well as the fact that Strawhenge's claim seemed most convenient, as well as the fact that speedchuck seemed to be arbitrarily removing me and juliets from competition which seemed unwise if he's the marker... but all of this doesn't exclude solid marker play.

I'm really torn though. I guess you could say I'm feeling 60% speedchuck, 35% Strawhenge, 5% juliets at the moment. It could change easily.
I am leaning toward speedchuck as well.
Well, I'd be willing to end this thing I suppose if you are. Props to whoever the marker is regardless of all of this... this is a really tough end game.

Yeah I'm tired, and tired of trying to think about it. I don't think anything else is going to come to me about this situation. I think I'm ready to vote.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm leaning towards voting speedchuck actually after mulling over it and reading all of this. The Bellic thing doesn't add up. Strawhenge is giving a genuine effort.

I was giving him points earlier for these posts as well as the fact that I've found him generally very logical and sincere, as well as the fact that Strawhenge's claim seemed most convenient, as well as the fact that speedchuck seemed to be arbitrarily removing me and juliets from competition which seemed unwise if he's the marker... but all of this doesn't exclude solid marker play.

I'm really torn though. I guess you could say I'm feeling 60% speedchuck, 35% Strawhenge, 5% juliets at the moment. It could change easily.

I am leaning toward speedchuck as well.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Strawhenge wrote:
juliets wrote:No, its not me. Its either Straw or speed and whichever one it is has played a great game.
Well, I haven't played a great game, so...

Speedchuck's assessment of why MP wasn't lying seems really reasonable to me. Which crosses MP off my list.

So it comes down to speedchuck and juliets. I've already stated why speedchuck could be the rogue, but what about juliets? What did juliets claim? Backup doctor? Someone (I think speedchuck) said they didn't believe juliets would make a claim she'd never heard about before. I think that's kind of funky reasoning, but... Do we have any evidence that juliets's claim is true?

Also, from what I recall, the only thing I remember seeing about why juliets isn't the rogue is, 'Well it can't be juliets because it can't be.' I think speedchuck and Dyslexicon both said something to that effect. I too said that, but from a perspective of drowning in text and having no juliets-related pings.

I still have a strong gut feeling that it's speedchuck, but can I get some reasoning on why it can't be juliets? Because right now, if it's not juliets, it's fuggin speedchuck and we should lynch him.

I was kinda given a raw deal with an unprovable role, surviving this late in the game. Whichever of you is the rogue, you've been clever and creative with your claims. If I wind up getting lynched, it will be that cleverness and creativity on which you may rest your laurels. But I implore you all: I am not the rogue. I am not scum. I am a town-aligned revenge killer.

linki: No.
It could be juliets I guess. I really don't know.

It's really not me. If I were going to fabricate a role I would at least fabricate one I had heard of.

Strawhenge wrote:
juliets wrote: ~ He is mafia savvy enough to have made up his role
For the sake of argument, are you implying that you're not savvy?

A backup doctor would be a convenient fakeclaim, because, at surface value, it holds water if someone else is a doctor. And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you claim after Quin flipped?

I did claim after Quin flipped but remember, I had said earlier that there was another doctor because I thought my role implied a full time doctor. Also, I am not mafia savvy enough to make up a role that we've never had at any of the places I have played.

Ok, here's what's going through my mind:

Why speed is the sk:
~ JJJ's analysis gives him better odds than Straw
~ He told me I wasn't Bellic to get me to trust him
~ Bellic is conveniently Wilgy
~ He is mafia savvy enough to have made up his role
~ He was around the day Quin and Golden blew up though not here when it happened

Why speed isn't the sk:
~ He cleared one of his competition, MP
~ He said Straw's role isn't what he thought it was and more plausible than he thought, virtually eliminating another of his competition
~ He played a great civ game

Why Straw is the sk:
~ He has played a below the radar game

Why Straw isn't the sk:
~ He wasn't here the day Golden and Quin blew up until after they blew up (and they didn't blow up at a natural game juncture like beginning or end of day)
~ He sounds genuine when he says he's not the sk
~ JJJ's analysis gives him fairly low odds of being the sk

What have I left out? I can't think of many reasons Straw is the sk though I think there surely must be some. speed and MP, why is Straw the sk?

Strawhenge wrote:Yeah, it means I get the rolecard telling me I'm a revenge killer, and then I choose who dies if I die. In this instance (and all other revenge killer roles I've seen in past games), I get to choose nightly.

Ohhh ok I see. So you and he agree on this point, it's just you don't think that your selecting counts as a "visit" which as you say doesn't really matter unless someone tracked you which didn't happen. I think I understand now what everyone is saying.

Strawhenge wrote:As far as I understand a revenge killer role, they don't count as a 'visit'. It's like the mafia comes to kill them, and they panic and shoot someone with a shotgun as they die. Maybe sprityo works it differently, but unless someone tracked me, I'm not seeing the relevance.

Strawhenge do you know what speed is talking about when he says this:

"Most revengekill roles only notify the person, then ask him to select a target."

speedchuck wrote:
juliets wrote:
speedchuck wrote: Strawhenge, a guy whose roleclaim screams "don't you try to kill me, scum" and allows for a visit when tracked, which most revengekill roles do not do. A revengekill role also fits less in the setup if Quin was town. Mafia just doesn't have enough survivability for us to have a vigilante, and for mafia to be handing out guns to us, and for there to be a revengekill, and for there to be a marker. It felt like the doc was there to offset the vig, but man, a revengekill too, and no doc? Hrm. Plus a town doctor for town survivability...
speed, for whatever reason I can't find where strawhenge refers to the above, allowing for a visit when tracked. Can you refresh my memory as to what he said about this or point me to the post where he explained it?
Strawhenge wrote:Okay, I'm a revenge-killer. Choose someone every night and if I get NK'd, they die too.
My targets:

N1 Jay (you'd said some lowkey shady shit, sorry)
N2 (missed the night phase)
N3 Long Con
N4 Quin
N5 Fred
I assume, since there is targeting, that a visit/target occurs during the night.

Most revengekill roles only notify the person, then ask him to select a target.

Ok for some reason I'm not grasping this. As a revenge killer my understanding is Straw just picks someone every night to die if he gets night killed. I'm not understanding where the visit comes in or the notification of a person. Who gets notified and what do they get notified of? Who get's visited? Take his night 1 target JJJ for example. Who would have gotten notified and of what using that example? Who got "visited"? I know this is simpler than I'm making it and I don't know why I'm not understanding. I apologize.

That should say "EST not "set".

speedchuck did you see the post where MP and I are planning to vote sometime between 6 and 7 pm set?

speedchuck wrote:
Strawhenge, a guy whose roleclaim screams "don't you try to kill me, scum" and allows for a visit when tracked, which most revengekill roles do not do. A revengekill role also fits less in the setup if Quin was town. Mafia just doesn't have enough survivability for us to have a vigilante, and for mafia to be handing out guns to us, and for there to be a revengekill, and for there to be a marker. It felt like the doc was there to offset the vig, but man, a revengekill too, and no doc? Hrm. Plus a town doctor for town survivability...

speed, for whatever reason I can't find where strawhenge refers to the above, allowing for a visit when tracked. Can you refresh my memory as to what he said about this or point me to the post where he explained it?

Strawhenge will you clarify the "visit" part of our role again? I see reference to it by speed but can find the explanation for it.

Strawhenge I'm going to be going to the grocery store here shortly. Are there any other questions you have for me right now? I will be on after I get back too for awhile.

Strawhenge here is speed's logic on MP:

speedchuck wrote:
juliets wrote: speedchuck, since you think it's strawhenge as opposed to MP, are you thinking Golden just lied about his targeting JJJ and getting Fred? Thats the only way I see MP's targets making sense. Also, did you find your third name last night (if you want to say)?

And for all, should we push this lynch off until tomorrow morning at 11:00 am? speedchuck are you in a time zone where that wouldn't work?
If MP is telling the truth, Golden lied about his target. If MP is lying, Golden lied about being driven. Let's look at these cases:

MP is telling the truth case: Golden did not lie about where he went, but did lie about his target. I do not know why he told us anything at all, but hiding his target is reasonable. Why? His target was Fredwood. Mafia watchers often target teammates so that they can know whether townies are bluffing against them and whether they should distance or bus. He didn't want us to know that he targeted Fredwood.

If MP is lying, and is actually the marker: Golden lied about being busdriven at all. This makes no sense, and there's no reason for MP to corroborate it. Furthermore, Golden saw MP/Eloh target Freddie. I assume that this is true, because if it wasn't, both Golden and MP are asking for a lynch. If MP/Eloh targeted Freddie, and Jack didn't, then Fred would have been marked. He didn't die in the first explosion.

Long-winded stuff, but even with Golden's pointless lie, MP was telling the truth. Unless we've gotten a ton more misinformation than we thought, it isn't really possible for MP to be lying. Fred would have died earlier, or Golden would have been lying about even seeing Eloh, which would get Golden insta-lynched. Occam's razor says that MP is truthful. MP lying is tinfoil.

linki

Just as a note Strawhenge having backups for roles is not something I'm familiar with in my mafia experience so not something I would make up. I know you don't know that because you are not familiar with what my experience is. Plus it made no sense to me to be a civ backup doctor for a doctor who was mafia (so not likely a role I would claim) until JJJ pointed out that Quin could have easily been civ since Fred was a forger.

I think MP's claim is believable because of the logic speed pointed out. I think that logic pretty much clears him. I don't know why speed's behavior is believable - I'm still wrestling with that. If I believe it then I believe that Wilgy was Bellic which is awfully convenient.

That was Night 5 that I protected JJJ and then Night 6 that I protected Dizzy.

Strawhenge wrote:
Strawhenge wrote:juliets, would you mind just briefly breaking down for me what your role is, who you targeted, and what the result(s) was/were?

Oh sorry Strawhenge I didn't see this.

I am the Backup doctor. I became the active doctor when Quin died. I protected JJJ the first night I was active (I'll have to check which night that was, it was the night Scotty was killed) and then I protected Dizzy last night (even though it looked like the last mafia was dead I didn't want to take any chances). Is that what you wanted to know?

speed, have you any logic to apply to your situation to show you are not the rogue? It seems to me you are probably Jeremy Bellic. You also said you tend to be more analytic when bad and you've been very analytic this game. Whatever you have to say, please say it. This is a hard decision.

Strawhenge wrote:Also I'm going to be taking off for the night in about 20 minutes. I have a date*.

read: exercise in futility that will likely result in, at best, a weekend comprised of long stretches of video games in the dark, plus bourbon

lol have a good time!

Strawhenge wrote:
juliets wrote:No, its not me. Its either Straw or speed and whichever one it is has played a great game.
Well, I haven't played a great game, so...

Speedchuck's assessment of why MP wasn't lying seems really reasonable to me. Which crosses MP off my list.

So it comes down to speedchuck and juliets. I've already stated why speedchuck could be the rogue, but what about juliets? What did juliets claim? Backup doctor? Someone (I think speedchuck) said they didn't believe juliets would make a claim she'd never heard about before. I think that's kind of funky reasoning, but... Do we have any evidence that juliets's claim is true?

Also, from what I recall, the only thing I remember seeing about why juliets isn't the rogue is, 'Well it can't be juliets because it can't be.' I think speedchuck and Dyslexicon both said something to that effect. I too said that, but from a perspective of drowning in text and having no juliets-related pings.

I still have a strong gut feeling that it's speedchuck, but can I get some reasoning on why it can't be juliets? Because right now, if it's not juliets, it's fuggin speedchuck and we should lynch him.

I was kinda given a raw deal with an unprovable role, surviving this late in the game. Whichever of you is the rogue, you've been clever and creative with your claims. If I wind up getting lynched, it will be that cleverness and creativity on which you may rest your laurels. But I implore you all: I am not the rogue. I am not scum. I am a town-aligned revenge killer.

linki: No.

Well, there has never been a backup doctor or backup anything else that I can think of on the syndicate or revolution or the piano or lostpedia and MP has played with me at all those places. It's really not me. It may be speed though. Thanks for answering the question about not being Bellic.

Hi Strawhenge are you Bellic?

MovingPictures07 wrote:
juliets wrote:MP just to clarify, when you say evening do you mean like 6:00 EST or later than that? Hopefully you don't mean like 9:00 or 10:00.
Yeah, 6-7PM EST is likely. I won't be able to work until 9:00-10:00.

Cool. Lets end it tomorrow evening. That will give time for post game if anyone is here.

sprityo, take note!

MP just to clarify, when you say evening do you mean like 6:00 EST or later than that? Hopefully you don't mean like 9:00 or 10:00.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'll unvote. Let's decide tomorrow. I'll be busy until the evening though, just so you know.

unvote

Ok thanks for telling me.

I'm torturing myself. I probably won't vote until tomorrow to see if Straw comes in.

Ok MP, I'm starting to think it might be speed. If he made up that third name, he then told me it wasn't me to get me to believe him. If he made the name up it's none of us, including Wilgy.

I need to think some more. I wish Strawhenge would come to the thread.

No, its not me. Its either Straw or speed and whichever one it is has played a great game.

I will probably do the same (heavy sigh)

I should just go ahead and do it and get it over with

The game ends no matter what right? If he's bad it ends and if he's good speedchuck wins -

MovingPictures07 wrote:Vote juliets

Let's see what happens.

hahahahaha

And why are you making this vote?

You did what you could. The marker had surely already marked Jay and it was a toss up as to whether he would mark me or Dys last night.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I don't know what can be done though to even figure out the marker at this point. While Jay's analyses are nice, the marker may not have had discernible in-thread reasons to blow up anyone.

I agree. I don't know what to use to make this decision.

At least not that I can see but I'm thinking about this on the fly.

MovingPictures07 wrote:There's no way to know though. Right?

Right.

MovingPictures07 wrote:This means that Bellic must be Wilgy, right?

No, it could be Strawhenge and speed could be not telling us the truth.

speed chuck remind me again who you have checked.

This is fucked up.

MovingPictures07 wrote:You're 100% certain that it's Straw?

I am not 100% certain about anything.

Oh wow - so speed got straw's results.

speedchuck when did you check me?

MovingPictures07 wrote:Do we really need the extra time then if the three of us are going to vote Straw anyway? Or is one of you tricking me and it's really you?

Here is where speed chuck started explaining his role. I'll get the rest with the names in my next post - and I'm going to vote straw so I don't need the extra time.

speedchuck wrote:There are certain targets in the game that I can visit that are of benefit to me, and by extension town. I was given their names at game start. 3 of them. All but one has flipped already. Unfortunately, one was Marmot. The second was Nutella. You weren't the third.

I get a doublevote the day after I find one.

He was talking to Jay when he said "you weren't the third".

linki find a what for me?

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