The Syndicate

S~V~S wrote:

DFaraday wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

DFaraday wrote:

S~V~S wrote: @Faraday, why do you think that being bad is the only reason one may change ones mind overnight in a Mafia game? Why do think that people who disagree with you are suspicious?

I didn't say either of those things. I find it odd that 3/4 of the Quin voters had a sudden change of heart with very little in-thread reasoning for that development.

I don't find the Epi and leetic suspicions shady because I don't agree with them (although I see how it could come off that way); it's more that their reasons were weak. I fail to see how Epi's post count is indicative of alignment, or even an accurate assessment of his typical play
(his post count in recent months varies quite a bit from game to game). The leetic votes are based on almost nothing, which leads me to wonder whether one or more of them is forced.

I made a number of points about Epignosis unrelated to post count. If you feel they were weak, please identify those points and explain your misgivings.

Okay.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Beefs with Epignosis:

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:

Matt wrote:For all I know, neither Scotty or FS found my question suspicious, but they did jump to the aid of someone who's alignment they can't possibly know yet without letting SVS answer first. And then FS proceeded to advance her agenda with exaggerations about management and fibs about me misleading people.

Derp.

Lol @ judging then saying it's not for you to judge.

-1 on INH

How do you know that?

I don't know why Epi asked this question. Matt's assertion was rather ordinary -- that two people (Scotty and fingersplints) shouldn't know the alignment of S~V~S yet and thus should have no reason to interfere with his methods. I don't think there's any implication here that Matt knows more than he should know, which is where Epi's question seems to lead.

Epi, to my mind, was raising the possibility of civ BTSC, which Matt seemed to discount right out of hand.

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:Matt is my number one suspect. He named two suspects but clung to fingersplints. I say he and Scotty are teammates.

This strikes me as a very small reason to regard Matt as the number one suspect, and there's an air of opportunism too given the crap Matt got throughout Day 1.

I've always been of the philosophy that Day 1 votes needn't be extremely compelling cases, because more often than not there's not enough material or information to make a case like that. So a weak vote on Day 1 doesn't ping me. Opportunistic, maybe, but that's not a word I would associate with Epi's style.

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Hmm...

I think Quin and INH are on a team. I also think INH and Matt are on opposite teams. I also don't think bad Matt woud gimmick this early, unless he is strictly copying another game. He compared this point system to transistor, but I don't think he's copying what he did there.

Why is that question strange bullz? Feep free to answer the question yourself.

All of this sounds like somebody who needed something to say coming in and saying something. Why do you think these things? What posts brought you to these conclusions? Why are you defending Matt?

This is fun in that Epignosis is accusing Wilgy of providing fake content, when Epi's post itself looks to me like fake content. Moreover, the Wilgy post being criticized looks a lot like the Epignosis post in the previous spoiler. Saying something for the sake of saying something. Taking a stance for the sake of taking a stance.

Fair enough. I didn't read his posts as feeling fake, but if you do then that's that.

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Hmm...

I think Quin and INH are on a team. I also think INH and Matt are on opposite teams. I also don't think bad Matt woud gimmick this early, unless he is strictly copying another game. He compared this point system to transistor, but I don't think he's copying what he did there.

Why is that question strange bullz? Feep free to answer the question yourself.

All of this sounds like somebody who needed something to say coming in and saying something. Why do you think these things? What posts brought you to these conclusions? Why are you defending Matt?

Why would have I needed something to say Epi?

DrWilgy wrote:INH put too much effort in his mockery of Matt's point system. Thus I think they are on opposite teams. The reason why I'm defending Matt is because of this. If INH is bad, then Matt is probably good.

This is a soft accusation. What you are really saying is that you think insertnamehere is bad, but you couch that accusation in a conditional statement. Is this to imply that if Matt is bad, you think insertnamehere is good?

DrWilgy wrote:Regarding Quin, I have no justification for why I think they are on the same team, thier patterns feel similar though.

I see.

DrWilgy wrote:Timmer and Epi, what do you think of the questions that I have asked so far?

DrWilgy wrote:@Svs, did you really think you'd get a yes or no answer out of that from Dom?

2/10

DrWilgy wrote:INH, how long will you take until you begin to policy lynch no shows/wallflowers?

4/10

DrWilgy wrote:I feel that AoT mafia turned out the way it did because of this mindset. Do you agree or disagree?

2/10

DrWilgy wrote:Matt and Bea, if someone were to target you right now, who do you think would do so?

1/10

DrWilgy wrote:Hey INH and Quin, if someone were to target you right now, who would that person be?

1/10

DrWilgy wrote:Could you see multiple players targeting you currently?

1/10

DrWilgy wrote:Why would have I needed something to say Epi?

1/10

DrWilgy wrote:Timmer and Epi, what do you think of the questions that I have asked so far?

4/10

The "soft accusation" thing looks fake too. Wilgy suggested a bad INH might suggest a good Matt, which makes perfect sense given the treatment INH gave Matt on Day 1. There's no reason for this to be perceived as "soft". There's no "couching". Wilgy voiced suspicion of INH independent of Matt and then made an assertion about how a baddie flip by INH might reflect on Matt. That's reasonable.

Then all those numeral grades are just pointless. Epignosis is not the type to waste thread space on nonsense.

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:I voted Mr. Pink.

Epignosis ended up supporting the Wilgy lynch. The only supporting content for this vote is in the preceding spoiler, which I've already griped about. He seemed very relaxed and content to go with the flow on this one. I get the impression given the language of his posts that he suspected Matt more than Wilgy, but he didn't bother to press the issue. I'd expect a civilian Epignosis to be a little more invested in getting his suspect lynched.

Separately from all this, I count 14 of Epi's 33 posts that add nothing to the discussion. This number can be disputed to be slightly higher or slightly lower depending upon interpretation. Regardless I see potential post count inflation.

Epi makes a lot of jokey posts in every game. I just don't see anything compelling in these reasons, especially since I'm not feeling the insincere tone you detect.

Why are you defending Jays entire case against EPi? Can't Epi do that himself?

DrumBeats wrote:@ DFaraday - My main suspicion on Quin was the discrepancy between saying baddie hunting was his top priority and him focussing very little on it day one. Over the night, and early day one Quin contributed much more to the thread than I have seen from a lot of players, including you, so that is enough to shift him to a civ read for now.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

DFaraday wrote:

S~V~S wrote: @Faraday, why do you think that being bad is the only reason one may change ones mind overnight in a Mafia game? Why do think that people who disagree with you are suspicious?

I didn't say either of those things. I find it odd that 3/4 of the Quin voters had a sudden change of heart with very little in-thread reasoning for that development.

I don't find the Epi and leetic suspicions shady because I don't agree with them (although I see how it could come off that way); it's more that their reasons were weak. I fail to see how Epi's post count is indicative of alignment, or even an accurate assessment of his typical play
(his post count in recent months varies quite a bit from game to game). The leetic votes are based on almost nothing, which leads me to wonder whether one or more of them is forced.

I made a number of points about Epignosis unrelated to post count. If you feel they were weak, please identify those points and explain your misgivings.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Beefs with Epignosis:

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:

Matt wrote:For all I know, neither Scotty or FS found my question suspicious, but they did jump to the aid of someone who's alignment they can't possibly know yet without letting SVS answer first. And then FS proceeded to advance her agenda with exaggerations about management and fibs about me misleading people.

Derp.

Lol @ judging then saying it's not for you to judge.

-1 on INH

How do you know that?

I don't know why Epi asked this question. Matt's assertion was rather ordinary -- that two people (Scotty and fingersplints) shouldn't know the alignment of S~V~S yet and thus should have no reason to interfere with his methods. I don't think there's any implication here that Matt knows more than he should know, which is where Epi's question seems to lead.

Epi, to my mind, was raising the possibility of civ BTSC, which Matt seemed to discount right out of hand.

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:Matt is my number one suspect. He named two suspects but clung to fingersplints. I say he and Scotty are teammates.

This strikes me as a very small reason to regard Matt as the number one suspect, and there's an air of opportunism too given the crap Matt got throughout Day 1.

I've always been of the philosophy that Day 1 votes needn't be extremely compelling cases, because more often than not there's not enough material or information to make a case like that. So a weak vote on Day 1 doesn't ping me. Opportunistic, maybe, but that's not a word I would associate with Epi's style.

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Hmm...

I think Quin and INH are on a team. I also think INH and Matt are on opposite teams. I also don't think bad Matt woud gimmick this early, unless he is strictly copying another game. He compared this point system to transistor, but I don't think he's copying what he did there.

Why is that question strange bullz? Feep free to answer the question yourself.

All of this sounds like somebody who needed something to say coming in and saying something. Why do you think these things? What posts brought you to these conclusions? Why are you defending Matt?

This is fun in that Epignosis is accusing Wilgy of providing fake content, when Epi's post itself looks to me like fake content. Moreover, the Wilgy post being criticized looks a lot like the Epignosis post in the previous spoiler. Saying something for the sake of saying something. Taking a stance for the sake of taking a stance.

Fair enough. I didn't read his posts as feeling fake, but if you do then that's that.

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Hmm...

I think Quin and INH are on a team. I also think INH and Matt are on opposite teams. I also don't think bad Matt woud gimmick this early, unless he is strictly copying another game. He compared this point system to transistor, but I don't think he's copying what he did there.

Why is that question strange bullz? Feep free to answer the question yourself.

All of this sounds like somebody who needed something to say coming in and saying something. Why do you think these things? What posts brought you to these conclusions? Why are you defending Matt?

Why would have I needed something to say Epi?

DrWilgy wrote:INH put too much effort in his mockery of Matt's point system. Thus I think they are on opposite teams. The reason why I'm defending Matt is because of this. If INH is bad, then Matt is probably good.

This is a soft accusation. What you are really saying is that you think insertnamehere is bad, but you couch that accusation in a conditional statement. Is this to imply that if Matt is bad, you think insertnamehere is good?

DrWilgy wrote:Regarding Quin, I have no justification for why I think they are on the same team, thier patterns feel similar though.

I see.

DrWilgy wrote:Timmer and Epi, what do you think of the questions that I have asked so far?

DrWilgy wrote:@Svs, did you really think you'd get a yes or no answer out of that from Dom?

2/10

DrWilgy wrote:INH, how long will you take until you begin to policy lynch no shows/wallflowers?

4/10

DrWilgy wrote:I feel that AoT mafia turned out the way it did because of this mindset. Do you agree or disagree?

2/10

DrWilgy wrote:Matt and Bea, if someone were to target you right now, who do you think would do so?

1/10

DrWilgy wrote:Hey INH and Quin, if someone were to target you right now, who would that person be?

1/10

DrWilgy wrote:Could you see multiple players targeting you currently?

1/10

DrWilgy wrote:Why would have I needed something to say Epi?

1/10

DrWilgy wrote:Timmer and Epi, what do you think of the questions that I have asked so far?

4/10

The "soft accusation" thing looks fake too. Wilgy suggested a bad INH might suggest a good Matt, which makes perfect sense given the treatment INH gave Matt on Day 1. There's no reason for this to be perceived as "soft". There's no "couching". Wilgy voiced suspicion of INH independent of Matt and then made an assertion about how a baddie flip by INH might reflect on Matt. That's reasonable.

Then all those numeral grades are just pointless. Epignosis is not the type to waste thread space on nonsense.

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:I voted Mr. Pink.

Epignosis ended up supporting the Wilgy lynch. The only supporting content for this vote is in the preceding spoiler, which I've already griped about. He seemed very relaxed and content to go with the flow on this one. I get the impression given the language of his posts that he suspected Matt more than Wilgy, but he didn't bother to press the issue. I'd expect a civilian Epignosis to be a little more invested in getting his suspect lynched.

Separately from all this, I count 14 of Epi's 33 posts that add nothing to the discussion. This number can be disputed to be slightly higher or slightly lower depending upon interpretation. Regardless I see potential post count inflation.

Epi makes a lot of jokey posts in every game. I just don't see anything compelling in these reasons, especially since I'm not feeling the insincere tone you detect.

S~V~S wrote: @Faraday, why do you think that being bad is the only reason one may change ones mind overnight in a Mafia game? Why do think that people who disagree with you are suspicious?

S~V~S wrote: I was out all weekend and had to read Quin in ISO; would it surprise you to hear that his output during the night period made me feel much better about him? Would it surprise you to hear that his vote made me feel even better?

DrumBeats wrote: Also would not surprise me to hear that the night made you feel better about Quin, I feel a bit better about him myself. The vote making you feel better surprises me a bit, but whatever floats your boat

birdwithteeth11 wrote: I know I definitely am not. We're less than 24 hours away from Day 2 ending, Quin's posts since after the Day 1 lynch have started to make me feel better about him, and I'm currently catching up and have zero suspicions on anyone. Although part of that may be because this is a very large game and most large games take me a bit longer to start to sink in and get more concrete ideas.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hey gang. I'm TiredJimmyJay, so please bear with me if I catch up at a leisurely pace.

Anyone who cares: what are the three most important things I should know about this game so far?

insertnamehere wrote:

Scotty wrote:

Matt wrote:+1 to SVS for ignoring me as a good civvie should do

-1 to FS and Scotty for rushing to her defense w/o letting her answer first.

Lol so a good civvie should ignore you in general? Got it

That's what I got from Matt's apparent ploy.

Can I just say that I'm totally over people throwing out some random question, other people finding that question suspicious, and then the original person saying that their question was supposed to be suspicious, and because other people reacted to it, they are now suspicious.

It's just BS 99% of the time, and there's no merit to the "bait scum by acting weird" thing at all. Every time I see it used it just seems less and less productive.

But hey, people are gonna play the way they're gonna play. Far be it from me to judge them.

Scotty wrote:I'm thinking that voting for Personell will reveal the player list. Which would be a nice place to start. I voted there.
Wonder what Management or Memo will do, if anything. Reveal upper management roles maybe? Memo=win conditions or something?