The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote:
LoRab wrote:Go civs!!!

Sorry I didn't play very well this game. My instincts were totally off in the front end of the game. Sorry I killed you, Matt. I had the pistol at the time.

I felt really guilty taking everyone's items if they voted the way I wanted them to in BTSC. But it was also a fun game to pick the right target.

Also, much easier to start a BTSC chat, without being able to reveal who you are (either role or player), and have the other person believe you are civ. I subtly or not so subtly revealed my identity to those players to whom it made sense. Others I left more ambiguity.

My last BTSC was Epi. Mid way through I knew he was bad because he lied to me, and I knew it--but he lied well enough that I had a glimmer doubt in myself and totally played that moment poorly and basically point blank asked why he was .lying. He gave a good enough answer that I could talk myself into a plausible reason that he'd believe that I possibly believed him (something about maybe his power was stolen that night, so it showed up as a fail for him). But I could have played out that moment much more gracefully by just saying, "Oh, ok," and not pursuing further conversation.

What's funny is that I thought that if he was bad he was Y/Y. And I took the risk that if he thought he could trust that I trusted him, he'd keep me around, at least for a little while. When I was killed that night, I assumed that I was wrong and he actually was a cop. And until he was revealed, went with that assumption and kept kicking myself for taking the risk of revealing myself to him and thinking he wouldn't kill me right away.

Turns out, the other mafia decided to kill me. Curious why they decided to kill me!

linkitis: @Epi: Not only did I know that I was asked about coffee when I was LD-ed that night, but I also knew from russ that Carlton wanted the coffee.
That was an intense time. I falsely pretended to think you were BDH, if you recall. I didn't want you to think I knew it was you (I actually had it figured between you or Quin, and when I fished around for your history on rabbit8, I knew it couldn't be Quin, because Quin didn't play with him on RM). We tried to cover our bases by killing both you and Quin anyway.

Still, a pants-changing moment in the game for me. I'm glad you won.

But you didn't kill me. The cops did.

Go civs!!!

Sorry I didn't play very well this game. My instincts were totally off in the front end of the game. Sorry I killed you, Matt. I had the pistol at the time.

I felt really guilty taking everyone's items if they voted the way I wanted them to in BTSC. But it was also a fun game to pick the right target.

Also, much easier to start a BTSC chat, without being able to reveal who you are (either role or player), and have the other person believe you are civ. I subtly or not so subtly revealed my identity to those players to whom it made sense. Others I left more ambiguity.

My last BTSC was Epi. Mid way through I knew he was bad because he lied to me, and I knew it--but he lied well enough that I had a glimmer doubt in myself and totally played that moment poorly and basically point blank asked why he was .lying. He gave a good enough answer that I could talk myself into a plausible reason that he'd believe that I possibly believed him (something about maybe his power was stolen that night, so it showed up as a fail for him). But I could have played out that moment much more gracefully by just saying, "Oh, ok," and not pursuing further conversation.

What's funny is that I thought that if he was bad he was Y/Y. And I took the risk that if he thought he could trust that I trusted him, he'd keep me around, at least for a little while. When I was killed that night, I assumed that I was wrong and he actually was a cop. And until he was revealed, went with that assumption and kept kicking myself for taking the risk of revealing myself to him and thinking he wouldn't kill me right away.

Turns out, the other mafia decided to kill me. Curious why they decided to kill me!

linkitis: @Epi: Not only did I know that I was asked about coffee when I was LD-ed that night, but I also knew from russ that Carlton wanted the coffee.

Scotty wrote:
timmer wrote:Seriously.
I'm here! I'm serious!

and dead tired.

me, too.

Why are you patently ignoring my response to you, Scotty, and the question that it contained?

I'm not bad. Other than circumstantial evidence, what makes me suspicious?

And my post after the lynch was more that in his defense of Dom (which really did look like a defense to me), he threw suspicion towards Wilgy and Scotty 1.0, both of whom we know were civ.

Ugh. That was frustrating. An allignment checker who defends mafia and accuses civs. Sigh. Moving on.

insertnamehere wrote:
LoRab wrote:Also, you don't give another explanation for why every name was alpha except for one? How did INH's name end up being the only one not listed in order?
When stuff like this is what people focus on, this is what happens.

I'm not focusing on it--but it's a question that I had and was never answered. It was not my reasoning for suspecting the Klingon, that was based on his behavior, which presented as suspicious. But being wrong about 1 player does not negate noticing small things and breaks in patterns. It also doesn't clear you from suspicion.

Nope--there wasn't another question. I literally answered you point by point. Here's my post, since you seem to have ignored it--or are intentionally misrepresenting the facts like you did in most of your post about me.

LoRab wrote:
SokothQultuq wrote:
LoRab - Suspicious - Has mostly been flying under the radar. Only giving "Gut feelings" on our recently departed "Bad Cop" and "Dom" Gets really defensive when Quin Voted them. Goes after both Scotty and Wilgy at one point who are both Civilians in the end. Though I can understand why on Scotty due to his activity but LoRbb never comes out to set their own reasons. So this kinda stood out.
Votes Day 1 - Scotty, Day 2 - Scotty, Day 3 - Scotty, Day 4 - metalMarsh (This is the only day that is different)
I pretty much always base a lot of my decision making in mafia on gut. It's how I play.

I didn't get really defensive when Quin voted for me. I get annoyed when people suspect me or vote for me for no stated reason. I then answered all of his points for which he suspected me, which is why I do when people suspect me. As I am doing now. The only frustration in my Quin post was when he called me a he.

And yes, I suspected Scotty and was wrong. And it is patently untrue that I never said my own reasons. I stated my reasons for my suspicion of them, particularly that his tone did not sound like civ Scotty to me. And that, for me, it was not so much that he hadn't looked at his role card, but that he did not explain why he hadn't until days after being asked several times. And drive by voting, which always reads suspish to me. And, most of all, that he switched a lynch to a civ that he had no stated suspicion of, had not been named as suspicious by anyone, and wasn't even the lowest poster (which is something Scotty often falls back on). I had and stated reasons I suspected him--that I was wrong just means that I was wrong.

And Wilgy I never went after, nor did I ever suspect. Please show me where you perceive I went after him. Because that is literally not true.

SokothQultuq wrote:LoRab why should I not vote to Lynch you? Can you elaborate on your "Gut Feelings" a little more in a way that might help sway me in my suspicions?
Dude, give me a chance to answer. Did you not think I was going to answer when you stated suspicion of me? So, see above. But I'll add:

You say I've only gone on gut feelings, but that just isn't true. I'm not sure you've actually read my posts.

And that you're going after me for blatantly false reasons (in addition to reasons that are not role indicative for me, like using gut and tone as valid reasons for suspicion and defending myself) makes me seriously suspect you. Not because it's me (I know, someone is going to say switcheroo now, but this is coming from the principle of suspecting someone, not because I'm the target), but because of how you're going about it. And that you are using false information (also known as lies) to accuse me.

Also, you defended Dom/MM. And, oddly enough, accused Wilgy and Scotty (ironically enough, the very players you base your suspicion of me off of) based on their suspicion of Dom/MM--who we know was bad.

So, I don't actually care if you vote for me. Because I trust that the other players will realize that you haven't actually made a case against me. And that you are, actually, a baddie trying to get everyone to vote for someone else. And I don't actually mind suspicion in mafia, especially when I'm civ, so I'm not particularly bothered.

Also, you don't give another explanation for why every name was alpha except for one? How did INH's name end up being the only one not listed in order?

SokothQultuq wrote:
LoRab wrote:Also, Mr. Klingon, in your big post where you list all of the players and your thoughts on them, every player is in alphabetical order except for INH. Is that because his name is in a different place in your own list of players because he's your teammate?

Because it's really strange to me that everyone else would be in alpha order except that one.

LOL - Yes, I would totally make that mistake! LOLOLOL Sorry INH your screwed now!

I see you totally avoided my question LoRab.

I'm resigned to my fate, and LoRab just threw me under the bus further than even Epignosis did. So what to do about that. Well.

Vote - Lorab

I've seen bigger slips than that.

And what question did I avoid? I gave a whole big long post in answer to both of your posts about me. Did I miss another question? Or did you totally avoid my response?

I see you totally avoided my response.

Going to be on and off tomorrow, and have a board meeting in the evening, and don't want to forget to vote. So voting now.

Voting the Klingon.

Because of reasons stated above.

And also because he hasn't responded to my defense, despite posting after I made it. And has not yet posted to answer my question about how he ordered his list.

If he gives a good answer, I can change my vote. But at this point, I don't see that happening.

Also, Mr. Klingon, in your big post where you list all of the players and your thoughts on them, every player is in alphabetical order except for INH. Is that because his name is in a different place in your own list of players because he's your teammate?

Because it's really strange to me that everyone else would be in alpha order except that one.

SokothQultuq wrote:
LoRab - Suspicious - Has mostly been flying under the radar. Only giving "Gut feelings" on our recently departed "Bad Cop" and "Dom" Gets really defensive when Quin Voted them. Goes after both Scotty and Wilgy at one point who are both Civilians in the end. Though I can understand why on Scotty due to his activity but LoRbb never comes out to set their own reasons. So this kinda stood out.
Votes Day 1 - Scotty, Day 2 - Scotty, Day 3 - Scotty, Day 4 - metalMarsh (This is the only day that is different)

I pretty much always base a lot of my decision making in mafia on gut. It's how I play.

I didn't get really defensive when Quin voted for me. I get annoyed when people suspect me or vote for me for no stated reason. I then answered all of his points for which he suspected me, which is why I do when people suspect me. As I am doing now. The only frustration in my Quin post was when he called me a he.

And yes, I suspected Scotty and was wrong. And it is patently untrue that I never said my own reasons. I stated my reasons for my suspicion of them, particularly that his tone did not sound like civ Scotty to me. And that, for me, it was not so much that he hadn't looked at his role card, but that he did not explain why he hadn't until days after being asked several times. And drive by voting, which always reads suspish to me. And, most of all, that he switched a lynch to a civ that he had no stated suspicion of, had not been named as suspicious by anyone, and wasn't even the lowest poster (which is something Scotty often falls back on). I had and stated reasons I suspected him--that I was wrong just means that I was wrong.

And Wilgy I never went after, nor did I ever suspect. Please show me where you perceive I went after him. Because that is literally not true.

SokothQultuq wrote:LoRab why should I not vote to Lynch you? Can you elaborate on your "Gut Feelings" a little more in a way that might help sway me in my suspicions?

Dude, give me a chance to answer. Did you not think I was going to answer when you stated suspicion of me? So, see above. But I'll add:

You say I've only gone on gut feelings, but that just isn't true. I'm not sure you've actually read my posts.

And that you're going after me for blatantly false reasons (in addition to reasons that are not role indicative for me, like using gut and tone as valid reasons for suspicion and defending myself) makes me seriously suspect you. Not because it's me (I know, someone is going to say switcheroo now, but this is coming from the principle of suspecting someone, not because I'm the target), but because of how you're going about it. And that you are using false information (also known as lies) to accuse me.

Also, you defended Dom/MM. And, oddly enough, accused Wilgy and Scotty (ironically enough, the very players you base your suspicion of me off of) based on their suspicion of Dom/MM--who we know was bad.

So, I don't actually care if you vote for me. Because I trust that the other players will realize that you haven't actually made a case against me. And that you are, actually, a baddie trying to get everyone to vote for someone else. And I don't actually mind suspicion in mafia, especially when I'm civ, so I'm not particularly bothered.

sig wrote:Hello! I'm home from sisters graduation and will be back to my normal posting annoying self at some point today. :P

A few quick fire thoughts from my skim,

Sucks wilgy is dead, but I'd have probably voted for him.
Glad to see Dom/MM killed by Ying/Yang

I think we need to take another look at Sohok, Eloh, and Lorab.

Sohok for his defense of Dom
Eloh I'll ISO, but right now it is mainly for wanting to go after low posters.
Lorab for what Epi (I believe) brought up.

Brought up and later changed his mind. And I'll point out again, as I did when it came up ealier, that I gave MM the majority when I voted for him--an hour and 45 minutes before lynch close--with the assumption of people missing the vote.

Epignosis wrote:
LoRab wrote:I voted for a baddie and that looks bad? Not sure I get that, but I can't help it if you suspect me.
You voted for one who didn't get lynched.

LoRab wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
LoRab wrote:OK. Read up.

Thoughts on the names that have come up, because at this moments, I don't have any suspects of my own and I've been wrong about suspicions up until now, so I'm self doubting, and I didn't have time to read back through earlier posts. Also, it's less than 2 hours, and more names would only make it easier for mafia to manipulate the lynch, assuming (like Epi) many missing voters).

MM I could definitely see as bad. Especially after the vote for Sig, with no stated reason for doing so.

Russ I would be very surprised to find out was bad.

Wilgy, I'm unsure. I'm not very good at reading him. My gut tells me he is civ, but my gut could be totally wrong.

Sig, I really don't think is bad. I'm willing to revisit that at some point, but I don't see enough evidence that he's bad at this point to change my thinking.

So, I'm voting MM, because I think that's where I'm seeing the strongest reasoning at this point.
That's why. You name three others who you think are good or could be good. You didn't vote INH, who voted sig first. You don't even mention INH.
INH didn't have votes and I didn't want to further spread out the votes--plus, I don't think that people are suspish for being wrong. I disagree with INH, but I'm not sure I suspect him for it. I haven't looked at him close enough to think he's civ. But he didn't feel suspish enough for me to consider him for a vote this time. I'll certainly read him for next time, based on the results of this lynch.

I won't tell you to not suspect me, but I assure you that you're barking up the wrong tree. Also, good to know that after being baddie teammates last game, you still suspect me in every game, lol.
I don't suspect you every game. I suspect you now, Night 4, after a very specific set of circumstances took place. What does our being teammates before have to do with this?

I gave him the majority when I voted for him. And only an hour and 45 minutes-ish before lynch close (with the assumption of many of us of multiple missed voters).

And name a game, other than Office, in which you didn't suspect me. Our being teammates has nothing to do with it--it was just a teasing jab (because you suspect me in every single game, except for that one).

I voted for a baddie and that looks bad? Not sure I get that, but I can't help it if you suspect me.

Epignosis wrote:
LoRab wrote:OK. Read up.

Thoughts on the names that have come up, because at this moments, I don't have any suspects of my own and I've been wrong about suspicions up until now, so I'm self doubting, and I didn't have time to read back through earlier posts. Also, it's less than 2 hours, and more names would only make it easier for mafia to manipulate the lynch, assuming (like Epi) many missing voters).

MM I could definitely see as bad. Especially after the vote for Sig, with no stated reason for doing so.

Russ I would be very surprised to find out was bad.

Wilgy, I'm unsure. I'm not very good at reading him. My gut tells me he is civ, but my gut could be totally wrong.

Sig, I really don't think is bad. I'm willing to revisit that at some point, but I don't see enough evidence that he's bad at this point to change my thinking.

So, I'm voting MM, because I think that's where I'm seeing the strongest reasoning at this point.
That's why. You name three others who you think are good or could be good. You didn't vote INH, who voted sig first. You don't even mention INH.

INH didn't have votes and I didn't want to further spread out the votes--plus, I don't think that people are suspish for being wrong. I disagree with INH, but I'm not sure I suspect him for it. I haven't looked at him close enough to think he's civ. But he didn't feel suspish enough for me to consider him for a vote this time. I'll certainly read him for next time, based on the results of this lynch.

I won't tell you to not suspect me, but I assure you that you're barking up the wrong tree. Also, good to know that after being baddie teammates last game, you still suspect me in every game, lol.

Epignosis wrote:
LoRab wrote:Nice to see I was right about both MM and Wilgy. Feeling better.

Pondering implications of the secrets of MM's role.
You look like a busser to me.

I'm not, but why do you think that?

Nice to see I was right about both MM and Wilgy. Feeling better.

Pondering implications of the secrets of MM's role.

insertnamehere wrote:
LoRab wrote:OK. Read up.

Thoughts on the names that have come up, because at this moments, I don't have any suspects of my own and I've been wrong about suspicions up until now, so I'm self doubting, and I didn't have time to read back through earlier posts. Also, it's less than 2 hours, and more names would only make it easier for mafia to manipulate the lynch, assuming (like Epi) many missing voters).

MM I could definitely see as bad. Especially after the vote for Sig, with no stated reason for doing so.

Russ I would be very surprised to find out was bad.

Wilgy, I'm unsure. I'm not very good at reading him. My gut tells me he is civ, but my gut could be totally wrong.

Sig, I really don't think is bad. I'm willing to revisit that at some point, but I don't see enough evidence that he's bad at this point to change my thinking.

So, I'm voting MM, because I think that's where I'm seeing the strongest reasoning at this point.
Are you voting MM simply because of "Bad Read" and "Agreed With INH"?

Is there anything else to this case?

Several people have made points about Dom/MM--I don't remember who has said what about them, but there have been enough things pointed out. I also didn't get a particularly good feeling about Dom--I had written it off at first, knowing he had things going on, but as the game has gone on, I've felt less and less good about him, and therefore them. So, mostly gut, but posting in general.

Elohcin wrote:
LoRab wrote:OK. Read up.

Thoughts on the names that have come up, because at this moments, I don't have any suspects of my own and I've been wrong about suspicions up until now, so I'm self doubting, and I didn't have time to read back through earlier posts. Also, it's less than 2 hours, and more names would only make it easier for mafia to manipulate the lynch, assuming (like Epi) many missing voters).

MM I could definitely see as bad. Especially after the vote for Sig, with no stated reason for doing so.

Russ I would be very surprised to find out was bad.

Wilgy, I'm unsure. I'm not very good at reading him. My gut tells me he is civ, but my gut could be totally wrong.

Sig, I really don't think is bad. I'm willing to revisit that at some point, but I don't see enough evidence that he's bad at this point to change my thinking.

So, I'm voting MM, because I think that's where I'm seeing the strongest reasoning at this point.
My top suspect is still wilgy. And with no developments today on who could be bad b/c of Night 2's kill, I have to stick with my vote on him. But, this post here doesn't sit well with me. The way Lorab describes wilgy sounds like how a baddie would describe a teammate. I also don;t like how she voted for MM and gave the exact reasoning that a previous player gave. If wilgy is bad, Lorab has my next vote.

My post was actually just my honest viewpoint. I'm unsure about him. I have some reason to think that he could be civ, but not enough to not suspect him at all. At this point, I'm on the civ side of the fence, but still pretty close to the fence.

OK. Read up.

Thoughts on the names that have come up, because at this moments, I don't have any suspects of my own and I've been wrong about suspicions up until now, so I'm self doubting, and I didn't have time to read back through earlier posts. Also, it's less than 2 hours, and more names would only make it easier for mafia to manipulate the lynch, assuming (like Epi) many missing voters).

MM I could definitely see as bad. Especially after the vote for Sig, with no stated reason for doing so.

Russ I would be very surprised to find out was bad.

Wilgy, I'm unsure. I'm not very good at reading him. My gut tells me he is civ, but my gut could be totally wrong.

Sig, I really don't think is bad. I'm willing to revisit that at some point, but I don't see enough evidence that he's bad at this point to change my thinking.

So, I'm voting MM, because I think that's where I'm seeing the strongest reasoning at this point.

Way too long a day today. So many things going on at work (but I did get everything done that had to get done)...and then I was on for 2 services in a row. I'm out and about much of tomorrow (at the Delaware Pride Festival and Comicon with a group from my synagogue...and yes, those 2 events are combined. Because Delaware.).

Really unsure about suspicions. I feel like I've been wrong about everyone so far, so I think I need to reassess everything. Meh.

rabbit8 wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
rabbit8 wrote:I think Quinn, BDH and Lorab are bad.

Do you have anything to back this up?

Their posts?

Could you perhaps be more specific?

DrWilgy wrote:
BigDamnHero wrote:
DrWilgy wrote: Wait. I can understand reading him as baddie, but how is Scotty saving himself not civ minded? A civ only knows thier own alignment. If I had the choice of me or an unknown I'd take the unknown in a heartbeat. At least that way there's a cance there's a mafia lynch.
Follow the logic here...Scotty read as bad (which you just said you could understand) and so we voted to lynch him. That lynch resulted in Scotty, presumably the baddie, switching the lynch to save himself and throwing a civ player under the bus. Under those sets of circumstances, it was easy for the narrative to continue being written that it was a baddie trying to save himself, hence why a 2nd lynch attempt was made.
This is the exact problem though. Lynching a mafia member isn't easy. There is a faction working against that outcome.

Why did everyone go with the easy option. When the easiest option is always to lynch a civ?

@Lorab, since when do mafia members vote each other all the time?

Since I've been playing mafia. In case where there is a clear majority, mafia throw each other under the bus or vote for the clear winner all the time.

DrWilgy wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:Ok... So I wasn't here (or paying attention recently) but now have more time to play.

So why did everyone somehow agree that lynching Scotty (again) was a good idea after his first vote was a landslide?

I actually need everyone to answer this question. Why the hell did we lynch Scotty?

It was 10-3 the first Scotty lynch yes? meaning mafia (a team of 3) was OK with lynching him. There were probably 2 of them on the Day 2 Scotty vote.

So why, when Scotty was given second chance, and everyone hops on his boat again, did nothing change?

9-4??? When baddies were already A OK with him dying? Why was that a thing when we had evidence that the baddies already were OK with him dying?

OK, hindsight 20/20 and all, but if a mafia team knew that their teammate had a save, there is no reason to not jump on that bandwagon. Not to mention that mafia vote for teammates all the time. As it was, Scotty looked suspicious for several reasons, including that he chose someone to kill in his place that had no stated supsicion on him. We happened to be wrong about the conclusion, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't acting in an un-civ-like manner.

rabbit8 wrote:I think Quinn, BDH and Lorab are bad.

You are wrong about at least 1 of those.

Someday, maybe Scotty will explain why he decided to kill Russ in the last lynch.

Quin wrote:- Answering to both LoRab and Scotty who asked why I voted as I did. I think my vote could easily enough have been inferred from my earlier post. LoRab fit both criteria I listed earlier in that he was active in the 'don't be a' competition, and he also voted Scotty based on his 'I haven't read my role yet' gambit.

Russtifinko wrote:Quin, I see you're on. Thoughts on moving your vote away from LoRab since it seems to not be gaining any traction today? And whether yes ro no, how do you feel about the top candidates of today?
I didn't see this post before I left. I don't even remember checking the thread this morning, but I guess I did if you called me out on it. Apologies.

When I placed my vote I believe Scotty was the only one with more than one vote. I don't think anyone could be called a 'top candidate'. So as for Scotty, no, it was quite clearly a bad lynch. But no, I wouldn't have moved my vote from LoRab given my above reason for suspecting him. I don't have any stronger leads.

I'm interested in why you'd ask me to abandon my read just because it didn't gain traction. You didn't give me an alternative. Feels like something I should be worried about. Should I be worried about it, Russ?

No, it wasn't easily inferred. Also, that was only one reason I voted for Scotty the first time. And there were others who fit both criteria, as well. So why me?

Awfully hard to defend if someone doesn't make a case (and doesn't seem to fully read my posts). But I voted Scotty because I thought he was suspicious. And I participated in the contest first because I like contests, but mainly because it is good for the civs if a baddie does NOT win such a contest, so I wanted to keep that power out of the hands of the baddies. It is in the civs best interest for civs to enter all contests--the baddies already have an advantage because they have BTSC and can collaborate efforts. Why would you push civs away from preventing the baddies from winning?

Also, I am female. I have told you this before. Please stop using male pronouns to refer to me.

Beam me up baddie wrote:I'm glad no one is answering my previously asked question.

Sure, I look suspicious. I'm giving minimal effort as I proceed to move halfway across the country.

So if no one gives me some names, my hands are tied.

If I were to not be lynched today, who on the train would you rather see lynched?

I looked back at your posts to see what you've said. This post seems to imply that you could only switch to someone who voted for you. According to the poll thread, Russ did not vote for you (please someone correct me if this info is incorrect). And was he really the one of your voters that was the most suspish?

I'm just not buying it. Sorry, dude.

Voting Scotty. Again. For prior reasons, but also directly because of the last lynch. I can't fathom why a civie would switch a lynch to someone who hadn't been discussed as a suspicion, who hadn't been mentioned by the player, and wasn't the lowest poster...especially where there were suspicious players who had been named. It doesn't make sense to me from a civ perspective to have killed Russ 1.0. Scotty, if you can explain your choice, I may change my vote. But I really don't think that you're looking at all good at this point.

Drive By Voter wrote:I've feel like I've played enough games where my actions as a civ have come across in the most suspicious way possible to know when I see it in other people. I won't vote for Scotty today.

I like his insistence on trying to make people talk about other things. He asked a few times, but was still keen on arguing his case, which tells me that he's more likely to be a civvie attempting to uncover information than a baddie trying to hide behind a deflection strategy.

His 'I haven't checked my role card yet huehuehue' thing looks objectively suspicious on the surface, but what motivation does a baddie have to say that? There is absolutely no advantage in a baddie Scotty starting off his game in the way he did.

The lynch train that formed on him also makes me think he's civ. I don't see a situation where that bandwagon could get going that quickly and not have baddies jump on. For the sake of digging up as much as I can, here are a few defences here by nijuukujou and Matt, but I can't accuse either of them of saving Scotty in these posts:

Spoiler: show
nijuukyugou wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Thread, don't be a nightmare to read here.
I understand the contest, but those first few pages were a bit of a nightmare to get through.

Elohcin wrote:
Day 0 and he seems to be trying too hard to find something on someone.

Okay, so I just saw that there may be another option for me to vote. Niju. She has posted ONCE all game (Day 0). I know it's early and Niju is a quiet player. She usually posts only once a day. However, its easy for me to tell the difference between her quiet, helpful, civ playstyle and her quiet, laying low, baddie playstyle. I will keep this in mind if I can get back here before EoD. For now, sig, though.
Do you? But really, I considered going with what I keep saying I'm going to do every game beginning and go after a super-low poster. Problem is, that happens to be me yet again.

These votes are stupid spread out, and among people I believe have either been simply playful, or really haven't done anything ping-worthy, IMO. I think most very strange behavior Day 1 is avoided by baddies, and the types of things people are voting for (e.g., sig's theorizing, although I'll admit I had to tear myself from a vote for him because temptation but also not wanting to kill the guy AGAIN on Day 1; Scotty's "I haven't looked at my role card!" [because what reason is there for saying this as a baddie? I hope I don't eat my words]) fall into that category of "Why would someone do this Day 1 as a baddie?" I'm not saying it wouldn't happen and hasn't happened, but I'm saying it's not likely, and I avoid voting like that. Really, I found this post by Quin to be subtle, yet suspect:

Quin wrote:This argument confuses me. I'd rather make the argument sig is making against eloh against SVS instead. The fact that the Eloh argument has escalated to where it is just feels extremely 'meh' to me.

sig wrote:Okay I know it is verrrrry early day 0 but already two things have stood out to me.

rabbit8 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Yay! This looks like a super complex set up with the items. I have been mega busy recently with RL, but I was looking forward to this.

Um, since info on the poll is confirmed, I think we should be clear on why we are voting as we do. I am choosing Ice Cream Jerky since, A~ It does not have meat in it. And B~ I have had that freeze dried "space astronaut" ice cream, and it was acceptable. Most of this except maybe Fruit Loop Quesadilla,sounds awful.

Also never saw this if that makes a diff re options.

You mafia.....?
And SVS response.

S~V~S wrote:OMG, no lol.
I find it to be very strange.

This seems like an attempt by Eloh to look townie and make it seem like she doesn't have information while she really does.

Elohcin wrote:
Spacedaisy wrote:
DFaraday wrote:This game is going to be great! All of those options sound amazing/revolting, so I'll have to mull it over.

Host: Does anyone have info on this poll?

not me

In other news, I have strong town reads for Epi, Wilgy and Elohcin. I'll elaborate on that later.
He did somewhat elaborate later on the suspicion of SVS, but that's not really what I'm pointing out. What gets me is why he would choose to point out three names and give them "strong town reads" on Day 1, claiming to explain later. Why do this? Buddying? Trying to appear like he's contributing? And why put a target on them? Going back, there isn't really a big reason to pick these three out of the bunch for "strong" town reads. Nah. This is weird. I know it's nitpicky, but it does kind of go with my desire to pick someone quiet(ish), yet subtle, for Day 1, instead of someone who stands out. Gonna vote Quin.

Spoiler: show
Matt wrote:Lol. Sorry sig. I was tempted by the tie, and I think it's silly to vote off Scotty because he was being silly about his role card.

Question...

sig wrote:I will be voting for matt tomorrow.
Does this mean you know you won't be lynched today?
At the very least I can entertain the idea of him being indie, or Yang hiding behind the security of his lynch immunity. But he's not bad. My vote today will be going to whoever best fits the criteria of a) posting with the intention of being removed from the lynch poll on Day 1 & b) voting Scotty based entirely on his 'I haven't checked his role card yet' nonsense.

Question/s: What's the deal with the engagement ring? From the way I read it, Scotty used it on Russ and as a result Russ became Scotty's personal meatshield? is that right?

3

Care to share why you voted for me?

BaddieMcBadderson wrote:
BackFromTheDead wrote:
Error404 wrote:
GoneButNotForgotten wrote:........aaaaaaand I missed the poll. Rats.

Good luck civs! Glad I got to play, even though my time was short.
You were taken so soon. You were so young!
But it's ok because I'm back!

Things I now believe (though I could in fact be wrong):

1) Scotty is Bad News Bears.
2) He was probably saved on D1, so Matt and/or Epi look pretty darn bad too.

Thoughts?
So I know there must be rules in place for this, but I'm assuming you can't talk about your precious self life.

I'm wondering what led you to this conclusion in your current role.
Is #2 a separate thought from #1? Or is #1 a conclusion from #2?

Anyone wanna talk about my 9 person train from yesterday ...or start the Scotty-is-bad locomotive again?

I never stopped suspecting you, but I'll play your reindeer games.

You have yet to answer the question as to why you posted twice (on 2 different days) without having checked your role, and decided to mention it? I don't think I've seen you even address that, although I could have missed it. But please, tell us, why did you post on both Day 0 and Day 1, without knowing your role?

linkitis: No, it's not just some people that shouldn't do it. And what you say is exactly why it's risky. You think you can do it because you're a good driver, but that's just not how it works. And the accidents that happen (from people I have spoken to, not on the news) are because of the split second that no one thinks about. And I don't think I'm going to convince you, but please tell us when you are driving and where so that we can stay far away from where you are driving. It is as risky to the people around you as it is towards yourself. And yay NYC!! And for you not driving for a while.

Dangerous Driver wrote:
TrafficTrolololer wrote:
SafetyPolice wrote:
PracticalityHitler wrote:The one thing worse than texting and driving: mafia posting while driving!

DON'T DO IT!
Reading mafia and driving is also bad.
That's what red lights are for!

Also, when you see your pizza guy still parked in front for a while AFTER we deliver your order...

Ok, I should really, REALLY stop...

SEE!?!?!?! THIS IS WHY I DON'T PLAY MAFIA!!! It consumes my every moment and then I make bad decisions like marrying someone you meet on the Internet
no but seriously most of my Mafia is while driving. Sometimes I'll turn off and finish things. But I haven't been on Mafia on my computer in a year or so. And sometimes driving is the only time I have.

I'm more nervous about Pokemon Go. I know where the Pokestops are around town because cars will often swerve into me at the same point. Some people just need to learn to multitask. Amateurs..

OK, but seriously...distracted driving, whether texting, or Pokemon Go-ing, or mafia-in is really dangerous. Texting and driving is statistically less safe than drinking and driving. Reading and writing longer blocks of text can only be more dangerous than that. Please find time other than that to mafia.

BigDumbDriver wrote:The one thing worse than texting and driving: mafia posting while driving!

DON'T DO IT!

Reading mafia and driving is also bad.

Paranoid or really out to get him? wrote:RIP Russ and DF.

So does this mean Russ thought Scotty was a civ?

Also anyone interested in trading items?

If the mafia tries to kill me tonight.... never mind mafia.

I thought you were of the strong opinion that they tried to kill you last night.

Godwin wrote:
Hitler wrote:
Eeyore wrote:Awesome. Now when I want to go through Night 2 / Day 3 stuff, I have to figure out who was the original author of quoted posts.
This is exactly why you and I need to figure out how to implement a linkback button for quotes
Yes sir.

Sorry I haven't had time to be on the past day or so. I suspected Scotty yesterday and that hasn't changed. So voting him again.

Meh. I had a whole post written with quotes and stuff, that I had been putting together througout the day when I had free moments, and entirely lost it. And now far too tired to rewrite it. So, tomorrow.

Also, a lot of it was my building suspicion of Matt, and he's not on the poll, so also meh to that.

Will recreate post tomorrow, regardless.

Matt wrote:Catching up and we have about 53 min till poll ends.

At the end of page two, putting a prelim vote on Lorab but it may change before poll ends.

Don't be a jerky person who votes for people without giving a reason.

Need to vote now, while I'm on the computer and able to check the site. I'm voting Scotty. I don't get why he would make multiple posts before checking his role card. He hasn't addressed that. Also, his posts have a tone of nonchalance that sounds like it's going back on the wave of (over)confidence that our team had in the office--being almost too casual about things in a way that doesn't ring honest to me.

Scotty, dont be a non role card checking mccheckerson and then not acknowledge that people have called you out on it.

*votes scotty*

Can one of the folks who has already voted let us know if votes are changable?

Also, Scotty: Don't be a flyby voter!!!

Seriously, dude. Why did you vote without posting about it. and, as others have wondered, why did it take you so long to look at your role card?

BigDamnHero wrote:ok...I don't wanna be "that guy"...but this is starting to feel more like a curse than a challenge...

Don't be "that guy." Seriously, though. How has no one not already used that one?

birdwithteeth11 wrote:
I partially agree with your assessment of Dom. I feel like he had some questions for Lorab, but a lot of the Fallout talk feels 50/50 to me (half interested in the topic, and half fluff/filler.

Don't be a pornographer. Oh, wait, that was fluff/filler. Not fluffer.

Dom wrote: Don't be a point misser-- how do you feel about this now? Do you feel like you got the answers you were looking for?

Now Wilgy, don't be a miscontruer here.

Don't be a pedantic pink poser.

OK, you weren't being. But I couldn't come up with a good don't be a...

I still have no idea what he was saying in that post. But I'm not overly worried about it. I also have a headache, so I assume that I'm probably just not thinking clearly.

Dom wrote: ??????

Don't be a questioning questioner, LoRab.

What do you mean by these question marks?
[/quote]

Don't be such a questioner of a questioning questioner, Dom. Really, I was just not getting what he was saying and was attempting to ask what he meant.

sig wrote:
LoRab wrote:
sig wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
sig wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Eloh says she doesn't have information, and your reaction implies that only mafia have information on the poll. Why?
I said it was strange and an attempt to look townie yes. I think it would be odd for a member of the town to make that type of post about having information since to me it implies guilt/an attempt to hide that you have information, there'd be no reason for a town Eloh to try and do that in my opinion. It was a very minor thing, but worth pointing out.
Or it's what she would say if she didn't have any information on the poll and felt like commenting on it.
Why comment that you don't have any information it makes no sense, and I see no reason for it. Unless your mafia trying to integrate into the game and look civve don't be a blind man to this Epi.
Don't be such a experienced player who plays at ignorance.

Seriously--It is rarer to see a day 0 when someone doesn't ask if anyone has info than no one asking. Plus, if someone is a baddie who has info, they tend to lay low and pretend they have no info; it is not logcial that they'd ask.

Your accusation of Eloh makes no sense.

Sig: Don't be such a manipulator of information to make people look bad.

Everyone: Don't be believers of false information.
Don't be a hostile witness! I'm not feigning ignorance, and in fact the only reason I pointed it out is due to my experience.

AGAIN ELOH DIDNT ASK which is what you said, so why are you saying she asked?

MY THEORY IS THIS Eloh asked in mafia chat and Lorab slipped up and thinks she asked in real chat. How else would she confuse to such an extent that Eloh never asked about poll information? Also notice she says I'm being manipulative? That is a classic baddie attempt to not only disprove what I say but make me look bad. She also says don't believe in false information but hasn't once pointed to what I said which is false information, in fact she is the only one spreading false information by saying Eloh asked a question which she didn't ask.
Don't be a cow everyone see the truth don't be a coward come out and speak agaisnt Lorab and Eloh and finally don't be a bumbling baboon see through the mist of deception created by Lorab and Eloh.

Don't be such a I don't really have words to describe.

I mis-saw who said what when I looked at the quotes. That's all. But still, throwing out that she doesn't have info still doesn't strike me as suspish.

And the theory of your speculation does not actually make much sense at all to me as something that anyone would actually do.

And I never said you were being manipulative. I said you were manipulating information. There is a difference. Perhaps a semantic difference. But don't be an anisemantic poster.

I was asking questions and disagreeing with you. That's really all. I wasn't accusing you. I wasn't trying to misrepresent you. I was just disagreeing. That you overreacted and accused me of being bad as a result makes me eyeball you. Don't be a misrepresenting misrepresenter. Also, don't be a switcherooer.

And don't be a person who uses women and cows in the same sentence. It just isn't a good thing. Ever.

linkitis: (and, to all: don't be a person that doesn't know where that phrase comes from). @Diggz:

Many glomps to you!!!!!! Welcome back. Missed you. Don't be a guestage. And, please, don't be a person that doesn't get references to old roles.

BigDamnHero wrote:
LoRab wrote:
sig wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
sig wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Eloh says she doesn't have information, and your reaction implies that only mafia have information on the poll. Why?
I said it was strange and an attempt to look townie yes. I think it would be odd for a member of the town to make that type of post about having information since to me it implies guilt/an attempt to hide that you have information, there'd be no reason for a town Eloh to try and do that in my opinion. It was a very minor thing, but worth pointing out.
Or it's what she would say if she didn't have any information on the poll and felt like commenting on it.
Why comment that you don't have any information it makes no sense, and I see no reason for it. Unless your mafia trying to integrate into the game and look civve don't be a blind man to this Epi.
Don't be such a experienced player who plays at ignorance.

Seriously--It is rarer to see a day 0 when someone doesn't ask if anyone has info than no one asking. Plus, if someone is a baddie who has info, they tend to lay low and pretend they have no info; it is not logcial that they'd ask.

Your accusation of Eloh makes no sense.

Sig: Don't be such a manipulator of information to make people look bad.

Everyone: Don't be believers of false information.
Be, or don't be...there is no try!

Don't be such a Yoda.

sig wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
sig wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Eloh says she doesn't have information, and your reaction implies that only mafia have information on the poll. Why?
I said it was strange and an attempt to look townie yes. I think it would be odd for a member of the town to make that type of post about having information since to me it implies guilt/an attempt to hide that you have information, there'd be no reason for a town Eloh to try and do that in my opinion. It was a very minor thing, but worth pointing out.
Or it's what she would say if she didn't have any information on the poll and felt like commenting on it.
Why comment that you don't have any information it makes no sense, and I see no reason for it. Unless your mafia trying to integrate into the game and look civve don't be a blind man to this Epi.

Don't be such a experienced player who plays at ignorance.

Seriously--It is rarer to see a day 0 when someone doesn't ask if anyone has info than no one asking. Plus, if someone is a baddie who has info, they tend to lay low and pretend they have no info; it is not logcial that they'd ask.

Your accusation of Eloh makes no sense.

Sig: Don't be such a manipulator of information to make people look bad.

Everyone: Don't be believers of false information.

DrWilgy wrote:
sig wrote:You?
I wish ;__; I'm feeling rather stabby lately. Not being able to let loose this pent up feeling on my friends in a game of mafia may lead to catastrophe soon...

??????

sig wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:
sig wrote:Okay I know it is verrrrry early day 0 but already two things have stood out to me.

rabbit8 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Yay! This looks like a super complex set up with the items. I have been mega busy recently with RL, but I was looking forward to this.

Um, since info on the poll is confirmed, I think we should be clear on why we are voting as we do. I am choosing Ice Cream Jerky since, A~ It does not have meat in it. And B~ I have had that freeze dried "space astronaut" ice cream, and it was acceptable. Most of this except maybe Fruit Loop Quesadilla,sounds awful.

Also never saw this if that makes a diff re options.

You mafia.....?
And SVS response.

S~V~S wrote:OMG, no lol.
I find it to be very strange.

This seems like an attempt by Eloh to look townie and make it seem like she doesn't have information while she really does.

Elohcin wrote:
Spacedaisy wrote:
DFaraday wrote:This game is going to be great! All of those options sound amazing/revolting, so I'll have to mull it over.

Host: Does anyone have info on this poll?

not me
Don't be a judge-y judge sig! All of these look like fairly innocuous Day 0, start of game jokes. And as someone who's been civilian and gotten lynched many a time over them, I really don't want to see this type of stuff again. Sig, don’t be an incorrigible Eskimo Pie with a caramel ribbon.

Also I missed the poll due to my own ineptitude at knowing when things end. I'd like to take this opportunity to tell myself: Don’t be the “iiiiiiiit” in “wait for iiiiiiiit", me.
Don't be so judgmental of my judgyness. Yes that works.
I wouldn't lynch Eloh based on one little thing, but I thought it was worth pointing out jsut like I pointed out the thing with SVS which didn't get nearly as much attention. It does make me thing maybe I was right about Eloh and her team mates are defending her so much, either way don't be so defense it looks odd.
:P

Don't be such an ignoring ignorer.

Epig made a perfectly reasonable explanation of an occam's razor explanation for Eloh's post. You ignored not only the idea of her asking in the first place because she wanted to know (as players often do in day 0 polls), and also the fact that someone brought up that possibility.

Hey! Checking in!!! Woot game and all that.

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