The Syndicate

I can't believe I survived so many kill attempts at night only to get lynched without a discussion at the end.

Great game MP! I definitely felt it captured the true essence of Bioshock! Especially me fully playing out the paranoid Peach Wilkins and cowering in fear each night.

When would you be hosting Bioshock Infinite? I really, really want to play the real game before playing the mafia game because of potential spoilers, but it wasn't on sale enough for me during the Steam Summer sale to fit into my budget. If it's sooner rather than later maybe I'll re-evaluate and just go ahead and buy it.

Anyway, congratulations to the winners. You all played a great game. I knew at the end that Devin and SD had to be Cohen and a dancer and I was planning to ask you to vote Nevinera, but Devin had already voted before I even returned to the thread to see the night post!

Thank you for hosting MP!

Wow, voted for myself...shouldn't drink wine and vote. God.

Crap, I figured the three of you had a voting bloc prepared against me. I hope so very much that you aren't trusting the wrong person because I am not Last Man Standing and just need to be alive.

I think either Nevinera is Thuggish Splicer or Devin is and a plasmid is involved.

*Le sigh*

I am going to vote Nevinera.

Phew, good result! Sorry to see you go Aces, except now that I know you aren't a civvie like I thought, I'm not that sorry.

So what're the chances that Thuggish Splicer is the last LMSer alive?

I've gotta say I am feeling clueless as to what's happening other than it's clear Devin (and SD?) are making a power play. I hope Aces is the Thuggish Splicer and that Devin and SD don't have LMS win conditions.

I don't want to hold us up any further so I guess, *vote Aces*

RIPIYWG DP.

So now we know that Thuggish Splicer is still alive. And unless DP was the Security Bot that killed Kate we also have at least one Security Bot alive...

I'm really hoping Team ADAM doesn't exist anymore...but that's probably wishful thinking.

That is an excellent result. Now I feel like I need to reread Houdini Splicer to see what Mata was talking about. Or maybe she really was trying to pull a gambit.

Good job those who voted Matahari!

Blergh I am not sure what to do.

I was leaning towards voting spacedaisy today but I see no reason to that now since there are only me and Aces left to vote (I'm assuming DP forgot to vote since he said earlier he was voting Mata since he had to go).

I'm going to go out on a limb here and trust Mata...not sure what difference that will make at this point. But *votes Devin* I hope I'm not being hoodwinked.

Egad, endgame makes me so nervous!

I'm at a loss here with this vote. The way Devin and spacedaisy quickly voted Mata when she started going against Devin and sort of SD seems like a classic baddie "no u". But there aren't many BTSC options left in this game.

What's bothering me about Mata's push against Devin is that she isn't clarifying who she thinks he's voted along with. At this point in the game, I don't see what the harm is in being more specific, especially if the case is based on thread evidence and voting records.

Aces, Nevinera, what are your thoughts on this?

Okay, I compared Devin and Spacedaisy's votes to Hedgeowl and Epignosis since I assume that's who Matahari was suggesting they are teammates with. But honestly, I don't really see a pattern in their votes at all. Maybe I'm misunderstanding who she's accusing them of being teammates with??

Day 1:
Devin (A Person)
Epignosis (BWT)
Hedgeowl (Dex)
Spacedaisy (A Person)

Day 2:
Devin (Dex)
Epignosis (BWT)
Hedgeowl (Aces)
Spacedaisy (BWT)

Day 3:
Devin (thellama)
Epignosis (thellama)
Hedgeowl (Lizzy)
Spacedaisy (Didn't vote)

Day 4:
Devin (boo)
Epignosis (Boats)
Hedgeowl (boo)
Spacedaisy (boo)

Day 5:
Devin (Boats)
Epignosis (Boats)
Hedgeowl (Dex)
Spacedaisy (Dex)

Day 6:
Devin (Dex)
Epignosis (bea 1.0)
Hedgeowl (Dex)
Spacedaisy (Dex)

Day 7:
Devin (Dex)
Epignosis (Bullzeye)
Hedgeowl (Dex)
Spacedaisy (Ajira)

Day 8:
Devin (Bea 2.0)
Epignosis (Bea 2.0)
Hedgeowl (Bea 2.0)
Spacedaisy (Bea 2.0)

Day 9:
Devin (Hedgeowl)
Epignosis (Hedgeowl)
Hedgeowl (Nevinera)
Spacedaisy (Didn't vote)

Day 10:
Devin (spaghetti)
Epignosis (spaghetti)
Hedgeowl (spaghetti)
Spacedaisy (spaghetti)
(Of course we all had to vote spaghetti this day)

Day 11:
Devin (Mongoose)
Epignosis (Mongoose)
Hedgeowl - DEAD
Spacedaisy (Didn't vote)

Day 12:
Devin (Epignosis)
Epignosis (DP)
Hedgeowl - DEAD
Spacedaisy (Epignosis)

*Linki* Mata, is there any danger you face by explaining what you mean more clearly? Am I looking at the wrong stuff in my spreadsheet?

I have to admit that I'm at a loss at the moment to understand what Mata is talking about. But I also really need some caffeine. I am going to go get a coffee then come back and look at my spreadsheet to see if I can pinpoint what Mata is getting at.

Mata, are you able to be more specific?

I'll be back shortly!

Just looked at the poll and I realize keep forgetting that DP is still alive!

I had considered Nevinera as an LMSer due to him being on of the people who commented specifically on DH being civvie, but I can't figure out how he could be LMSer and still have as much info as he appears to have this game.

I agree that spacedaisy hasn't been doing much to actively support the civvie cause. And flying under the radar is something I would expect an LMSer at this point in the game to do.

RIPIYWG Kate!

So I guess now we know there's at least one Security Bot still alive.

Awesome result!

I'm so sorry to hear about your laptop, MP. I hope you're able to get everything sorted out.

I'm hoping Epignosis is one of the LMSers so going to go ahead and *vote Epi*

I went back through the posts of everyone who is still alive and searched for "DH" in their posts (I used the ctrl+F function while on the "in topic" posts page for each player).

This is what I found alphabetical by players alive (I am only posting quotes I found that specifically reference DH and what they thought about his alliegiance):

*Aces: Nothing specific but a lot of posts showing in support of DH's theories.

*Devin:

Devin the Omniscient wrote:Well shit! I am very sorry I did not trust you boo! It is very difficult to believe someone who explodes with rage on one giant post and then don't say anything else. I will definitely be looking into your advice, though. I am divided between a couple of people at this point. Despite boo flipping civ I think the other Bs are a good place to look. I am not sure how I feel about DH, though.

*DP: Nothing

*Epignosis:

Epignosis wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:As I noted in my megapost, Bullz, boo offered an explanation for BwT's confusing post. One reason he might have done that would be to lend a hand to a team mate after a flub?

6.

I teach English. I tend to think you are good. But this is two sentences, not three.

3.

Epignosis wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:Another thing I've been wondering about, which I think Boo sort of touched upon before he died, is the possibility of DH himself being a BWT teammate. For all the witch hunting he did he voted early for Mongoose on the day BWT died. Dedicating a large amount of your posts to finding a baddie's teammates is definitely a good way of making people doubt that you yourself are on that team I suppose. Does anyone have any thoughts about that? It's 100% WIFOM but I think it's worth considering.

I think you're a hypocrite. DharmaHelper voted seventh for Mongoose on Day 2. You voted for Aces twenty-second.

Quick to defend DH's honour there, did I touch a nerve? There isn't even any proof I voted for a civvie that day. We don't know Aces' role, he could be anyone. As to the earliness of DH's vote: "How could I possibly have been trying to protect a teammate? Look at how early my vote for absolutely anyone but him was!". Like I said, it's total WIFOM but I thought it was something worth mentioning. Considering how Boo was calling for his head on a spike I don't think I'm the first to notice. Not seeing how that makes me a hypocrite.

I think you're clutching at straws now.

And Boo called for his own head on a spike before anyone else's. As far as I can tell, he had no way of knowing anything. He could have used reason to back up his swan song, but he didn't. Instead, he insulted people with his bluff.

*FH: Nothing

*Kate/GOB: Nothing

*Matahari: Nothing

*Nevinera:

Nevinera wrote:

Epignosis wrote:
Would you kindly tell us if you've changed your mind about bea, and what your current thoughts on boo and Bullzeye are? I've gone through your posts, and you don't seem keen on making cases- just reacting. I do not think that makes you bad...just kind of unhelpful. I'd also like to know what you think about Boats.

And what the hell? I get home from work and nobody wants to talk.

9

I have not changed my 'mind' about bea, which is to say that I have encountered no new objective evidence for or against her, and still consider her the best suspect.
I have my eye on Boo and Bullz for the same reasons, the timing of their votes for Aces on the BWT kill.

I'm not 'making cases' left and right, no. There's not much information to make them with, and I'm not keen on making crap up just so I can talk about it.
In general, I view making cases with weak or no evidence to be detrimental to the civilian cause in the long run -
someone has to do it to give the baddies impetus to make mistakes and reveal information, but we have quite an abundance of wave-makers already in play.

So yes, I'm "kind of unhelpful" for the time being. My helpfulness will gradually increase as more information becomes available,
and I am able to make more numerous/confident observations about voting patterns, vote timing, and kills (not that I'm the only one doing that this game).

I'm talking even less than I would, because DH seems be given to posting the same kinds of analysis that I like to.
His analysis seems spot-on to me (suspicions against myself aside); I'm feeling pretty sure DH is a civ.

8

*spacedaisy: Nothing

I underlined and bolded what I thought might be relevant comments. All of these posts were made before DH was killed by Jack and revealed to be Andrew Ryan. These quotes may mean absolutely nothing. I just figured it was something worth considering. The splicers may also have simply avoided referring to DH at all.

One idea I had for trying to find a LMSer is to go back through posts and see who seemed sure DH was a civvie early in the game. With the exception of the Security Bots, the splicers all knew DH's identity as Andrew Ryan. So if anyone seemed extra certain that DH was a civvie early on, then they might be likely to be an LMSer.

Nevinera wrote:I had better vote - I'm out of town, and my access to Internet is occasional until tomorrow night.
I'm going with Aces, reluctantly.

His reaction to my dump still bothers me, and I found the early voters yesterday to be suspiciously opportunistic.
(FH and aces mostly, Kate went early, but there wasn't any opportunism there, since she went first, and I kind of believe her that she misinterpreted me on the topic).

I'm not at all confident about him, but I've got nothing better.

I don't see myself as being opportunistic on following my own case. I waited to hear from Mongoose before deciding to vote and unfortunately her response didn't change my mind. Which sucks, but no one else was stepping up to the plate by building a case on someone...

When reading back I noted that Hedgeowl went pretty hard against Aces earlier in the game. So I ruled him out of being on Team Adam. As for whether he is an LMSer I'm less sure. But he's someone I've been inclined to trust most of this game.

What are people's thoughts on Devin, DP, Epignosis, Mata, SD? Those are players I have practically no read on at the moment.

Kate replaced GOB who a few had suspected earlier on but since replacing in she's come across as fairly civvie to me. I noticed when reading Hedgeowl's posts that she was quick to give GOB the benefit of the doubt when he first came under suspicion, so I thought GOB/Kate could be Team Adam. But as I continued reading Hedgeowl began suspecting GOB so I changed my mind on that.

Kate wrote:How is it possible with all those rogue killers that no one is dying?

Maybe there aren't as many rogue killers alive as we suspected originally? That would be awesome. With so many players who have died at night it's hard to get a solid estimate of what roles are likely still alive.

I'm hoping at this point it's a couple of civvies, maybe a couple of LMSers, one to two Team Adam, and probably Cohen and his dancers? I'm sure that's not really exact and probably wishful thinking.

But I'll admit after being so horribly wrong about Mongoose I'm really not sure where to look next.

Ugh, I honest to goodness was not expecting that result. I thought at worst she was going to be a Ryan-er.

Goes and hides in a corner now.

Nevinera wrote:That was odd. Aren't we still a day early?
Big case against Mongoose (compelling, admittedly) and then boom, boom, boom, three early votes against her.

I really doubt she's on Team Adam, but I think the odds are decent that she's a Ryaner..
But this smacks to me of people wanting a quick lynch to whittle down the competition;
constructing a bandwagon and then riding it.

I'm still deciding behind mongoose and Ace, but I think we should take a hard look at Kate, Ace, and FH for this sudden flocking vote.
I particularly see this is a big 'someone else' vote by Aces, trying to keep the wagon rolling.

With this few people left I don't see the point in holding onto my vote for the full 48 hours when I actually have someone I suspect based on what I feel is some pretty sound thread evidence.

No one else had piped up yet with a theory on where to look next and ever since Hedge's lynch I've been wondering about the two people that voted for you in the face of your info sharing. As I said, I was planning to make a case on why we should lynch Boomslang but he got incinerated before I had the chance (I often prefer to save my case building for daytime). Then we had the distraction of having to lynch spaghetti.

I hope I'm right that Mongoose is on Team Adam. And if I'm wrong I hope she's one of the LMSers.

I'm going to go ahead and vote Mongoose as well. I think there is enough evidence to support her being on Team Adam and I agree that there's really no purpose waiting. *votes*

I've been doing a lot of reading back though various players and after analyzing voting records and player's posts I think Mongoose might very well be on Team Adam.

First a look at some of Hedgeowl's posts in this game (*note* my point in quoting these specific posts is to highlight that Hedgeowl frequently quoted or commented on Mongoose and Boomslang [to a lesser extent] which I have seen teammates do before):

Hedgeowl wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Going to post in more detail after I do my read up tomorrow leading into the lynch.

DH - anything more to add after your reading? You've had short, but pointed comments so far. I haven't seen much analysis however. The Mongoose vote was a shot in the dark, as you stated, at an A Person voter. Any more thoughts?

The theories around llama are swirling and he has been highly suspicious. However, the more I think about it, it does just seems like basic mistakes that as a baddie I am not sure he would make. I do wonder why he felt the need to defend BWT so particularly the last minute and seemingly too late.

As for low posters, as many as have mentioned, Boats is decidedly absent. Great to see Ajira jump in the game with some good thoughts. I agree with Mongoose and Boomslang that I am hesitant to lynch G.O.B. right as he's starting to jump into the discussion. I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Linki- why now Vomps?
I think we need to get to the bottom of the self-voter craze from earlier. None of these players have really swung back to feeling civ at any point either. I am planning to vote for one of them today and leaning Lizzy, because of her complete absence recently with no explanation. As someone pointed out it suddenly feels like flying under the radar, but why when she was so public before? It just seems too much that they are teammates, but it would be likely that one baddie is hiding amongst them.

(This post was in response to this post by Boomslang which quotes Mongoose: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 852#p24852).

Hedgeowl wrote:

AceofSpaces wrote:I don't want to die.

I still think Ace is worth watching, but this post made me feel bad for voting for you.

thellama73 wrote:

AceofSpaces wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I see DP is online. Care to tie it up and make things interesting, DP? Like, in the next 8 minutes?

Are you invested in BWT's survival?

Where have you been? I've been fervently arguing that he is a civ for a long time now.

This post I find more interesting though. I was not originally suspicious of llama's defense of bwt, but this seems a bit desperate to me. Why would he specifically ask DP to vote for Ace to tie , unless it was to defend bwt? Since he voted much earlier possibly trying to start a trend, he couldn't protect a teammate maybe? Worth reading his posts for sure.

The strange voting for Mongoose surprised me too. DH claims to have shot in the dark at early A Person voters and then Vomps hopped on board right quick. Whether DH's vote is suspicous or not Vomps definitely is, so I'll be watching these few to see what happens.

Watching them because they voted for Hedge's teammate?

Hedgeowl wrote:Nooo!! Mongoose! RIP. You will be sorely missed.

This one in particular stood out to me. Mongoose was night-killed therefore no role was revealed. But Hedgeowl seemed particularly sad at her loss.

Hedgeowl wrote:

Boomslang wrote:Viking funeral, eh Mongoose? RIPIYWG. As for this day's lynch, it really doesn't seem like we're getting any significant new information. Good to see Ajira bringing up the post count, bad to see Dex being so rude :P. I don't want to get tunnel vision, but it seems like we haven't yet been able to act on the conclusions of the last few days, so I don't see lynch targets really getting changed.

Yeah, I agree with this. Not a lot has changed, so its a quiet forum again. Also, with tomorrows US of A holiday I imagine many like me will be voting early.

Hedgeowl wrote:Mongoose! Come back to play with us.

And of course voting to rezz Mongoose.

After Mongoose was rezzed there are a few more posts by Hedgeowl quoting Mongoose.

I've already explained previously that I think believe Boomslang was likely on Team ADAM which would make him teammates with Hedgeowl. In Hedgeowl's lynch, the two people who voted for Nevinera in addition to Hedgeowl were Boomsland and Mongoose.

Mongoose wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:

Kate wrote:Nev is reading as genuine to me and we think we know he is, I think we should keep him around as long as we can.

Aces, an alliance is not a horrible idea. We all have targets on our back at this point and those who refuse to vote with the "civs" may show who is not one. After what happened last night we are all likely to get attacked to it anyway. Might as well give it our best shot while we have a chance to.

I'm inclined to trust nev.

Do you think he is who I thought, an independent , or someone else he was suggesting, cause based on his comment to me to reread the roles, I assumed he was saying I was wrong. What alliance do you nev is? If its more like Dom interpreted that Nev is a lms role, than I would think it in our interest to lynch those roles too since they are the ones running around killing at night. Thank you for pointing out Ace that not every night will be like last night. I'll try to remember that later as Night descends

I finished catching up, Hedge. But I may be more confused than before I started. People I suspect are starting to defend/align with those I trusted and vice versa, so I'm all out of sorts. I'm going to marinate on this awhile and be a later voter I think to make sure I have time to make a well thought out vote today -- too much is on the line today to cast an erroneous vote. Yikes.

Mongoose wrote:Relunctantly voting Nev

Mongoose, I ask you, why were you reluctantly voting Nevinera? You only had the above two posts at all during that particular discussion, one to say you would hold your vote because you didn't want to make a bad decision, and then your vote post. You've been a very chatty poster this entire game so when reading back I found it odd that you were relatively quiet on the subject of lynching Hedgeowl.

After Hedge was lynched and revealed to be civ this is what you had to say on the matter:

Mongoose wrote:I didn't really feel the case on either of them. I'm glad some of y'all had sense though. Hopefully we will survive through the night. Statistically speaking, there's no way that Hedge voters is 100% civ either, so I'm not sure how to parse out the voting record for this lynch at all.

Isn't it true that statistically speaking one or more of the Nevinera voters also aren't 100% civ?

I am not 100% certain I'm right about this. But it's the strongest suspicion I have at the moment.

RIPIYWG Dom.

I'm thinking no Big Daddy kills is a good thing at least!

I think I'm going to need to do some rereading. But I might have an idea or two once I read back on a few people.

What a bummer result.

Mongoose wrote:I think whomever killed insertnamehere also killed Boomslang. I think it was a good guy -- look at the civ roles -- there's one I think could be using fire to incinerate baddies.

I agree that a civvie likely took out both of them. Though I am not sure I'm seeing what you're seeing in the roles. I just figured someone got their hands on an Incinerate! plasmid. I'll take another look at the roles.

Oh, just noticed the poll. Soooooo I guess spaghettieverywhere is the man of the hour?

Do we all need to vote the same spaghettieverywhere?

Well I guess Boomslang burning to a crisp is a good thing? I was planning on building a big case against Boomslang today because I felt pretty certain he was on Team Adam. Hopefully that was true! (For those who are curious my case was going to return to my initial ping of him early on in the game when he listed the possible BTSC options but conveniently made no mention of Team Adam in his "half and half" list [see any of my posts on this topic] as well as his vote in the Hedgeowl lynch.)

RIP if you weren't evil, Boomslang.

I need to reorganize my thoughts since my main suspect for today is no longer alive.

AceofSpaces wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Ok, I must apologize. I was torn between voting for Hedge or voting for Nev. I wanted to think on it and vote right before I left. Dumb idea because I ended up running behind while getting ready for work and so I rushed out without voting. A thousand apologies.

Those apologies can't save you now. MP thirst for blood.

I am totally picturing a sock with vampire teeth and evil eyes.

Awesome result! Sorry for the way your lynch went down, Hedge.

I need to vote now because I will likely end up not having time later.

I wish Nevinera had been able to make a case using thread evidence against Hedgeowl, but he seems very certain that we'll catch a killer by lynching Hedgeowl and he is aware that we will very likely turn on him tomorrow if he'd leading us astray.

With nothing better to go on at the moment I am *voting Hedgeowl*

Thankfully this week marks the first week I'll have some good time to actually play mafia.

Nevinera wrote:I sounds like a few of you intend to lynch me anyway.

Tell you what, lynch hedge first - she's probably fairly dangerous by now.
Then if you still feel I'm bad lynch me tomorrow, eh?

For what it's worth I'm not jumping to lynch you just yet. And your clarification makes sense because I can see it being read both ways.

Your Hedge comment is certainly noteworthy. Is there anything more you can say to support that statement? I can't remember if Hedgeowl has been on anyone's radars thus far. I will be very busy for most of today but hopefully this evening before the lynch ends I'll have some time to read back through Hedge's posts.

Dom wrote:Nev said, "other" last man standing folks.

As if he is one...

Ah, good catch. The first time I read Nev's post I didn't even notice that particular wording.

Nevinera wrote:I'm not sure what you think is a slip-up.
Drawing attention to myself probably was?

It hardly matters though, you don't need to convince the civs to vote for me,
you need to convince the other LMS folks to do so.
I'm not just a civ, I'm seriously no threat to anyone now.
All I've got is data, and its pretty useless data after last night.
I can tell you the roles of three of the dead folks, and I can point out two individuals as members of Ryan's army,
But since there is effectively no longer an alliance of civs trying to lynch the baddie threat
(instead, there is a mob of LMS players trying to lynch the ones most likely to kill them),
None of my info is remotely useful.

I'll admit I'm feeling at a loss today on who to look at. My main suspects died in the night so like many I feel like I am back at square one.

Holy guacamole! I don't think I've ever seen that many deaths in one night before in any game I've played of mafia!

RIP to those of you who were good. Though I'm relieved you're gone if you were bad.

Can't say I'm disappointed with that result! I'll miss you Bea but I am glad to be rid of a very powerful killer in this game.

The way I'm reading bea's posts currently is that she's not claiming to be a civvie now, just that she's a threat to Team Adam.

Mongoose wrote:I'm at least satisfied he's not faking because at this point he'd hopefully pipe up to defend himself. Going to go look over role list for the nth time to see who (if anyone) has insanifying powers.

In my experience the perfect time to fact being insanified or silenced is when you're under threat of being lynched and need more time to come up with a solid defense. I'm not saying that's what INH is doing (I think it makes sense that his current posting is a result of his not following his punishment) but I don't think he'd necessarily choose defense over faking a curse.

If people who were going to vote for him today choose not to because he's insanified, then if he's faking it he will have succeeded in his mission--stay alive for another day.

On another note, Bea's defense just doesn't have the same level of sincerity to me this time that it did in her previous incarnation.

Mongoose wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:

Kate wrote:OK so Bea comes back after Indi and I make a pretty large case on her and votes for civ. Then comes back again, and doesn't even mention that case (or Daisy's) and just ignores all mention of her and no one thinks that's odd?

Not to mention, Indi is suddenly dead?

My vote will be going to bea today.

^This, so much this! I get that Indi's death is by a civ (now gone rogue) as far as the post reads, but all the splicers and security bots just went rogue. So let's assume that Indi was wrong about Bea and she was a splicer, well now she is a rogue SK, correct? That is assuming she was wrong about Bea, which I am not convinced is true. I am likely putting my vote there today as well, because the chances seem pretty good that miss Bea has a kill now even if she did not before...

I don't know what's up with Bea either way, but wouldn't that be a little obvious for Bea to do that? I mean someone picked up on that almost immediately. I don't know if someone would frame her (or would have the foresight to do so), but it's not like Bea 2.0 hasn't been constantly as suspect since her debut. Killing off indi would be a good move for the baddies because they'd know we'd likely jump on the Bea-train asap.

So I guess the question here is was someone framing beajira or did she do kill indi herself (or the third option is indi's death had nothing whatsoever to do with beajira)? If she did it herself then she was a civvie at the time but isn't now. If someone else did it they may have been attempting to frame her, but since it was a civvie killed indiglo then the frame-up doesn't really work. So long story short, I agree with you that beajira is looking better and better for this lynch.

Phew what a catch-up!

So first, RIP Bea 1.0, Dex, and DH and RIPIYWG Indi and Mongoose. WBIYAG Mongoose. And welcome to the game Kate and welcome back to the game Bea 2.0. (I hope I didn't forget anyone! )

I like Bullzeye's case against INH. The moderately contradictory statements coupled with calling Bullzeye a "her" and saying he thinks Bullz is being coached is strange to me considering that Bullzeye has been around for years and I'm sure they've played games together before this one (though I'd need to go back through old games to confirm this).

One thing I don't recall seeing mentioned at all during the days I was missing was discussion of Boomslang and his misleading post on the possibilities for civvie BTSC. Now, I guess since Boats flipped civvie that kind of fell to the wayside, but regardless that post of Boomslang's is something that is still on my mind.

I also think indi might be onto something with regards to Beajira. My gut told me that Bea 1.0 was sincere in her defense and the change in terminology from "we" to "you" does quirk my brow a bit.

I feel like with the huge change of all of the civvie splicers now being rogue and Jack changing teams there will be a ton more to absorb and mull over. I definitely need to go back through the roles again to wrap my brain around things.

Also, my hand slipped and I voted for myself. Oops!

Hey everyone (players and our host). I am so so sorry for my extended absence. I have been traveling way too much for work and done a lot of 15 hour days this past week and I am brain dead and exhausted.

I am going to begin trying to catch up now but this may take me awhile (thankfully I'm at my desk today and not having to be in the field).

RIP Boats. Honestly not the result I was expecting for you...I guess not having a day or night power makes one less inclined to participate especially when real life is getting in the way.

I don't really see any reason to keep waiting to vote. I was hoping Boats might come back and say something. And I think that whichever way MP answers my question I still feel like we've found a baddie in Boats and participating or not, I'd rather lynch someone I feel has a pretty strong chance of being bad.

*votes Boats*

Oh wow, another self vote! And from bea!? I don't recall ever seeing bea give up like this before...and I still am not sold on her being bad.

I get that real life can totally get in the way of playing mafia. Heck, I've been way quieter than is my norm due to real life these past few weeks. However, real life doesn't dictate what role the host gave you and the thread evidence seems to show that Boats has BTSC. And as we've determined, there really aren't any clear civvie explanations for that. So Occam's Razor says that Boats is likely to be mafia. I feel like we return to the argument that was rampant during MOTU Mafia. If someone is mafia but they aren't actively playing, are they really a threat? I guess it depends on if MP lets teammates send in powers for each other.

@MP are the mafia allowed to send in each other's night powers if a teammate isn't around to do so?

I agree that Boomslang might warrant a closer look. The way he came up with the "half and half" chance of Boats having civvie BTSC and in the same post completely left out an entire mafia team seems very strange. But since the facts are so easy to corroborate by simply reading the roles on the first page, I can't quite decide what purpose being blatantly wrong about the BTSC possibilities in this game would serve, other than I suppose to save Boats for another day and/or hope no one noticed.

And I'm sure I'm beginning to sound like a broken record about Dex, but I just can't shake the feeling that he is purposefully trying to distract us with his posts. And I think it has worked if that is what he's doing because he was on a lot more people's radars early in the game, but has sort of drifted off the main list of suspicious characters for those more in favor of the 'B's are Baddies' theory.

And lastly, I think Bea and others might be on to something with G.O.B.'s behavior. Showing up to vote but not posting and then making one post when called out on it but playing the noob card makes it both hard to get a solid read on him and hard to trust his motives.

RIP boo. Not a happy result.

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:Also to throw stuff out there, well boo is one of my suspicions like I just said with the vote. Honestly I don't really have many. 3 games is hard for me to keep up with! I'll make sure never to do this again as it would seem I haven't learned the first million times I've done this.

11

Besides this Boo vote you just seem so non committal. You just won't be pinned down. Now playing too many mafia games..I get that. I have done the same thing. You don't make it easy though. Wishy-washy. That is how I would describe you answers. Wishy-washy.
Ok you are saying that boats had time to skim the posts and his thoughts in, what was it..12 minutes? I mean if that is right the bottom falls out of the whole theory. Personally I don't know..never timed myself.

31

Based on how long my reread yesterday took (hours, to get everything straight), I doubt it's possible. Boats may be a faster reader than me. However, I doubt he's THAT much faster.

14

See that's the thing. You read thoroughly. Some people don't have the time and, sorry to say, patience to read hours of posts, so the posts get a quick skim, and often not all of them. Boats seems like a pretty slack (not meant negatively! meant in the sort of laid back way. ) guy from what I see of his play, so I think that's quite a possibility. Also, I think I'm gonna lose this contest. Gah.

12

If Boats had posted again and not summarized what had been happening in the posts he caught up on, I don't think anyone would have batted an eye. It was the fact that he highlighted specific discussion topics after such a short amount of time.

*Linki* I see Nevinera posted the same thing.

Me adding another vote to boo seems pointless now so while I feel there's a good chance he's not friendly (though Aces posts are giving me some pause) I am voting Boats today.

I feel like I could have just as easily voted for Dex again though! Join the discussion my friend! The more you act zany the more I feel like you're trying to distract from something.

Ugh, sorry I'm just now posting. I drove over 6 hours yesterday for work (crossed about half of NC) then after all that driving still had to go survey new sites which meant more driving. So I collapsed when I got to my hotel. I have at least another 6 hours of driving ahead of me today.

I should get home in time to vote tonight. I could vote now, but with boo's latest post I am feeling ridiculously unsure at the moment.

bea wrote:I think more than one person has mentioned it, but I could be wrong, I've tried to go back and find it and i'm the suck at searching threads.

I think though, there might be something in the idea of people that have mentioned civ bts I know it's come up around the edges by more than one person. Since - as far as I can see, there isn't any. I'm frustrated for the night so I'm off to bed. It's just something I'd like to explore further and if someone else could help me with it, I'd be forever thankful for them for helping me follow my theory.

Bea, I think this is the post you were thinking of.

Boomslang wrote:Well, Boat's catching up was a slip that he has BTSC with someone, not necessarily that he's bad. What people should really be considering is how many civs have BTSC vs. how many baddies have BTSC. Based on my reading of the rules, Ryan and Sullivan have some communication with each other, the Fontaine crew has full BTSC, and Cohen has BTSC with Jack at a certain point that I don't think we've reached yet. I'm sure there are secrets, but these are the main communications. Dr. Suchong is already down, so the odds seem more half and half that Boat's BTSC is bad.

Boomslang interprets the odds of Boats having civvie BTSC as more "half and half" but in this explanation aren't Ryan and Sullivan the only two civvies with any form of communication and as Epig said, that is hardly BTSC. Not sure how Boomslang got to "half and half" from that.

I feel like I could definitely see Boats as bad.

And while I may alone in this, I don't think we should forget about Dex (even if he now doesn't want to be lynched because he's dead in all of his other games).

Hopefully there won't be hours worth of catching up to do when I get home tonight so that I can read everything before voting.

I'll be back tonight.

Wow, RIP Elohcin. What cruddy luck.

RIPIYWG Lizzy.

bea wrote:I'm also a bit worried about FH - I'm surprised she doesn't see me as civ here. I'm always wishy-washy when I'm not sure what's going on. You know the only time I'm confident in my vote is when I have info. Any other time, I don't know and I second guess everything like 3 times. You've had civ bts with me and have seen me second guess myself like 3 times and 6 more on sunday. I love you too, but you are making me a bit sketched out tbh.

Um, I haven't mentioned you even once this game I don't think... Are you confusing my posts with someone else? But I agree that you are very much like me when civvie: unsure of how to vote for fear of voting a fellow civvie.

As for those mentioning that I am usually more helpful when civvie I want to reiterate that because it is summer I am incredibly swamped with work. June and July are literally my busiest months of the year because it's when my insects are out. I travel every single day for work meaning I can't get to a computer until I get home or to a hotel. And when I do get to a computer I'm pretty exhausted from all the driving and being out in the heat for hours (North Carolina heat and humidity aren't fun).

I am trying to be as helpful with my ideas when I do post. I still think Dex is worth looking at. As I mentioned previously, I have seen him pull of some crazy stunts when bad like throwing his own teammate under the bus on Day 1 of a game so I won't discount what's he doing now as not having nefarious intentions.

I do find it very odd that Boats was able to catch up as quickly as he apparently did. Him having BTSC is definitely a good explanation for his quick summary post.

I should have stuck to my guns and voted Dex again yesterday, but honestly I thought some of the stuff being brought up about llama had merits. Obviously that was a bad decision and it sucks that llama had to pay the price.

I am trying to keep up as much as possible with this game because I've been dying to play it ever since MP first submitted the idea, but unfortunately as I've mentioned, the timing really sucks based on my work life right now.

I am going to vote llama. I have some slight hesitation in doing so, but I think the idea that he honestly though BWT would flip civvie and he staunchly defended him to gain civvie cred makes sense coupled with some of the other points being brought up against him.

I am still wary of Dex. I'm not sure what he's up to, but he's not giving me the cuddliest of vibes at the moment.