The Syndicate

S~V~S wrote:If you guys are wrong, I am gonna be so pissed at you. Very seriously.

Uhm, no one has responsibility for your vote but you. I take all blame for my own vote if I'm wrong, I don't take blame for yours!

For the record SVS, regarding Roxy, my opinion of her was based on several things, two of which were her reluctance to talk about Aces, and her mystery BTSC partner. Had i known the two were one and the same, the situation would have looked very different earlier on. My feelings were based on her responses, but they could have been different, but once that info came out into the open, I altered course accordingly.

I may have seemed all over the place today, but it's been (hopefully) for the good.

And SVS you only have 1 vote against you, I doubt you need to worry at this point?

There are four minutes. Roxy, would you vote Daisy along with Aces, if you think he is a civ? Aces, would you move yours? I've got SD on my baddie list, I'm happy to promote this. And throwing in the towel is never fun, so it's an alternative.

AceofSpaces wrote: So you see anyone else with four votes? If you do, please point them out, and I'll move my vote to them.

Of the people voting for me, I'd like you all to look closest at SD. Her reason was so weak, she didn't even both to get the day's of my votes right. And also at Long Con, who decided to harp on my one bad vote, but completely ignored Daisy when she did basically the same thing. Except I think SD it on purpose, and mine was an honest case of me not paying enough attention.

I made a Daisy case earlier today. I'll gladly move back there if it means you won't self-vote.

S~V~S wrote: You think she's lying about other things, but not about this?

TBH, if I was not worried about dying myself, I would vote for you, lol. You are really the sketchiest person in this thread, IMO.

I think the whole picture has gotten muddled, tbh.

@Aces, if you are an Old Rogue please don't self-vote. If you are bad, or even an indy, well, do what ya gotta do. But if you are an Old Rogue, I'd request that you move your vote, please! Don't throw in the towel!

In light of Roxy's map partner being Aces, I can't support an Aces lynch anymore. If people aren't behind a Roxy lynch, I'd also offer up a SpaceDaisy lynch as analternative. Roxy, why did you wait so long to reveal this?

AceofSpaces wrote:I voted for myself, because fuck it.

Are you bad?

Jesus, i can't stay away, lol.

I wavered on Roxy because of Bass 2.0's shout out, but no, I'm fucking sticking to my guns. if Roxy lied about silencing herself before, that's the last straw. My vote goes back to Roxy.

Roxy wrote:I hope you understand now so we do not have to go through this again

I thought you were bad the minute you called me out for something you later said yourself about Epi. This is why I actually think you silenced me in hopes that I would not get a chance to tell everyone you are bad.

You were silenced Night 1. All of that stuff about Epig, your posts on it, my posts on it, was on Day 2. you hadn't done or said anything that made sense to silence you over by night 1. Gah, I've got to go. And if you are somehow an Old Rogue, don't write me off as bad. I'm absolutely not.

Oh, but one question: Roxy, who do think should be lynched today, then? Of the people who have votes, etc. who do you plan to vote for?

Arrrgh.





I need to go disappear to think for awhile. Aces lynch should be good. My case against Roxy seems good, and yet. And yet.

Roxy... let me ask you a different question, then, in light of Bass' opposite opinion of you... except for right now obviously, how have you felt about me this game? Like, Day/Night 1, Day/Night 2, etc. how has your opinion of me ebbed and flowed? What would a timeline look like?

Well, I'm fine with the Aces lynch, Bass, so no worries.

Tell me one more time, Roxy. What is your opinion of Aces? And how are things going with the person you are in BTSC with?

you need to catch up, Roxy. The reason I had, which I mentioned previously, for thinking you were indy because the only role that could silence on odds nights, going by tildes, was an indy. And I've proven that Murmur's role, the only one that directly says he silences people, had previously said EVEN nights, which gave you an out. Only it's been corrected to ODD nights. You were silenced on an odd night. You needed to be found by the SAME person Bass 1.0 needed to be found by, and you both used your powers on yourselves as a shout out.

More importantly, to go with that, you've hedged your bets all game, not really committing to any one side, except for Epig early on, which was kind of an easy choice to make.

Roxy wrote: I hope when you get your wish and I am lynched that people will wake the f up and lynch you. Your constant pushing of people in this game is so unreal. If they do not vote or say what you want them to say then they are bad and that my friend is deffo NOT civ behavior!

Orly?

Pushing people, as in... saying that if no one wants to go along with me, I'm fine with jumping on the Aces lynch? Is that pushing people?

I think you're furious because you can't believe the host post got corrected and your very handy "out" got reversed. i think you're furious because I asked some pretty weird questions of you today, and you cannot see the whole picture. i think you're furious because you're caught.

And your post is the biggest NO U I've ever seen.

Sorry Roxy, you're bad to the bone.

S~V~S wrote:Your point about Aces still stands though, right? With only 2 hours he already has votes?

I'm at 90-95% with Roxy. 75%-80% with Aces. It's enough that I'll jump on it if Roxy isn't going to happen, yes.

S~V~S wrote:I want to hear from Roxy or the elusive chat evader. There could be another silencer based on the tildes.

That's just it. There are only two hours left in the day. Roxy just has to sit tight and this whole "mystery person will come forward" thing will keep her alive. And if her fellow "chatter" is indeed silenced, Roxy would have mentioned it.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Im not sure we see eye to eye because I think Roxy can be trusted.

What is there in her posts that makes you feel that way? Considering the self-silence would be the same gambit you pulled in your previous life, there must be something pretty civvilicious you can point to to explain why you don't think it's the truth? What about the other points I made, concerning her posts in the game? I hope you can read through them!

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I'm reallly not trying to be rude I am always wondering why people change the way they think about people but I figured it out so I thought it was easy just read back and you will get it.

For sure, you if anyone should see what I'm talking about!

I'll say it again, I'll happily join the Aces bandwagon, if people aren't feeling the Roxy vibe. When he flips bad, it will bolster my case against her, as she refused, repeatedly, to offer an opinion on him today.

DharmaHelper wrote:What in the fuck

Oh yeah, welcome to crazytown.

blindfaeth wrote:Timmer, can you spell it out for me like I'm stupid, why that changes your perception of roxy? Does it mean she led about being silenced?

1. It starts with the same scenario as Bass 1.0. Same exact compiracy theory. The baddies don't start with BTSC. they need to be found. Bass 1.0 did it by cursing himself. I think Roxy did it by silencing herself.

2. She has only once come on strong in this game, going after Epig, an easy target early on with his Eloh suspicion.

3. the entire rest of the game she has hedged her bets. Read through her posts.

4. I don't buy this whole "I've only had btsc in mapchat with 1 person, I'll name the, no I won't, they just showed up, give me time" business. She's watching the clock.

5. She refused to offer an opinion on Aces. Again, watching the clock tick down, hedging her bets.

Roxy is bad, and likely so is Aces.

On the contrary. This page HAS been edited.

Google has a handy "cached" feature that allows you to see previous versions of a page. I searched the cache and lookie what I found:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... 2&&ct=clnk

that is NOT the sign-up page, that is the game thread.

I will leave the issues surrounding editing host posts to another time, but for now, I believe Roxy to be bad, and probably Aces as well.

I will move my vote to Roxy but will shift it to Aces if need be.

Hold the phone.

I could swear that the role description of Murmur used to say that he silenced a player on EVEN nights. That's what I had written down regarding that role. Now it says ODD nights.

@MR, did you edit that role, or am I dreaming?

If Murmur silences on ODD nights, then my views on Roxy are drastically changed. Like, I may switch my vote to her, drastic. I've got to think on this.

With just over two hours left, less than half of the living players have voted. Even taking into account that a few people need replacing, that's pretty sad.

Roxy wrote:They came to chat after I posted I am trying to guage how I feel. I do know I do not like the way Timer is pushing this. I did not mention any names I just wanted it out there in cse thats where my vote went. as a heads up.

I want to give them a chance to prove them selves since I have time before I vote.

I trust your instincts about a situation like this, which is why I thought it would help to know who it is. But I also trust your instincts in that if you think it's best to not say who it is, then you've got your reasons. I'm good with my vote where it is, anyway!

@Roxy, there are four hours left in the day. I would definitely say that of someone had BTSC opportunity with you in a map chat, and was posting in the game, but never chatted with you at all in there, that that would be a surefire ping. Considering how much time is left, I think it would help for you to namedrop?

Roxy wrote:Timmer if I wanted to comment to you about aces I would but I do not have anything to say about him just yet.

Are you going to tell me why I am an indy and not an old rogue?

It's just a hunch, similar to the one I had about Bass. The particulars aren't important, though, as I'm treating indies as synonymous with old rogues, so whether you are an old rogue or an indy, you're in the same boat in terms of the odds that I will ever vote for you!

I'm very curious to hear about who you are voting for. Is there a reason to wait? A map btsc hunch is as good as a main thread hunch, imo.

timmer wrote:
Reading back through Aces' posts, I think there could be something to the case against him. I'd actually like to know what Roxy thinks of Aces. Roxy has been an interesting combination of self-defence (understandable) and sort of lightweight comments about "nose twitches" and "watching people", but apart from her one big push against Epig, she has kind of held off ever since a few people in clouding me started eyeing her a bit. I sort of have an indy role in mind for her, and right now to get her a bit more engaged, I'm hoping she will sound off on Aces.

Roxy, are we discussing the same thing, lol? The above^ is where I asked you your thoughts on Aces. I've rechecked your posts and do not see where you responded to this. Yet you are calling my response odd. Either way... how do you feel about Aces, and the case against him?

Roxy wrote:
Timmer I was hoping for some sort of reaction - but you failed to say anything. Why?

Sorry Rox, have you responded to what I wrote? I'm confused. I had asked your opinion of Aces, I think, but I don't see where you've answered.

I'm not long for this day, I'm falling asleep at the laptop, so I'll try to make this brief. I don't trust SpaceDaisy one bit.

I invite everyone to read her posts for themselves, to get the full picture, because I'm about to summarize them and condense them quite a bit.

Day 1 - Daisy mentions Long Con quite a few times, but ends the day with this summary of her feelings regarding his posts:

Rabbit, as far LC's comment, I have read most of his actions so far as being those of an Indy. But that doesn't mean he actually is an Indy, he could just as easily be a civ or a baddie trying to seem as non-threatening to the other alignment as possible. Which didn't work well for the yotsuba, so I doubt it will here either. But that is just my opinion so far.

She also interacts with blindfaeth quite a bit, and summarizes her feelings regarding his posts like this:

Here is what I find odd. BF did some early baddie hunting, but he seemed to switch gears very abruptly and go silly for a while when some people defended against what he said and a couple others seemed to disagree with him. It felt really weird to me, but frankly I'm not sure what to make of it and I'm not all together sure my view of him isn't colored by my interaction with him so quickly into the game. Plus I feel like I just don't have any good experience reading him.

She then votes him, saying this to FZ:

Yeah, I am feeling BF being civ less and less as time goes by. He totally mischaracterized your case against llama...

I'm going to put my vote on Bf right now.... We'll see if anything changes my mind

Fair enough for a Day 1.

Then four days go by! That last post was Apr 23rd, Daisy does not post anything until Apr 27th.

That first post back?

Spacedaisy wrote:

blindfaeth wrote:Th, you seem to be a bundle full of non suspicions. I get that you say you suspect roxy, but she's silenced. And you're looking at ika and soneji, but they are lower posters and also new to our forum and unfamiliar with our customs. I have a hard time believing you can't come up with something more convincing. These three are an easy out for coming up with suspects on day 2.

If this were the case then I would say that either Epi or Bullz are baddies with him because they seem like the easier lynch candidate for today to me....

Metalmarsh89 wrote:And since there are 6 players who haven't posted, that could account for 3 pairs of BTSC.

I don't understand this thought. Why would having not posted = BTSC? In my experience, people with BTSC tend to be more engaged with the thread because their conversations BTS keep them invested. For my part, I simply have had a busy couple days.

AceofSpaces wrote:I voted for Blindfaeth I'm sorry I haven't been more active. It was a busy weekend for me. I'll be posting more as the week goes on.

Wait, what? I suspected BF Day 1, but the landscape has changed now and I think at the moment there is no real good reason to suspect him, but you came in and voted him?

Bullzeye wrote:

FZ. wrote: I'm not talking about when you do an obvious screw up. I'm talking about when you play the game and people just start going after you.

I think anyone would be mad. In fact, I know it. I'm quite annoyed that I might be lynched as a civ day 2 because of a case that makes no sense. If anything I'm more annoyed than I would be if I were bad.

Bullz dear, I love you, who way back. But surely it is not such a reach for someone to suspect a guy who went after and voted someone who flipped like llama did.

Frankly I was torn between bullz and bass, but the Aces vote makes me want to lynch bullz at this point and see what happens with bass from here. There are some other things that bear watching I think, but that is another subject.

*votes bullz*

If I'm wrong, at least you will be publicly vindicated when you flip, right? Better than getting killed by the civ ninja... I don't think this is a bad vote though.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems clear that Daisy completely read the thread and was caught up. She skipped voting for Bass and instead voted Bullz... because Aces voted BF? Like, what? She is CLEARLY caught up, as she refers to the landscape changing on BF. And yet her reasoning for voting bullz instead of Bass is that Aces voted BF, which makes NO SENSE.

So then Bass gets lynched. He's bad. Daisy gives a shout to DH for doing a good job? No mention of how Long Con actually started the case against Bass.

The next day starts. Does Daisy take this opportunity to go back and flesh out those things she had thought about from the previous day? Discuss why she voted Bullz? Mention Aces anymore, since she found his vote for bf so pingy?

NO.

It's right into Long Con (the guy who started the case against Bass, a baddie). (the next post is heavily shortened)

Spacedaisy wrote:So, I am frankly not feeling Log Con this game at all. Allow me to explain what I see so far that I really don't like...

If I am not, his turnaround to this next post seems odd. Especially since he didnti say anything regarding llama in the intervening posts.

Now he starts in on assuming Magenta will use a lynch stop Day 1. The following posts all deal with this:

Frankly, these posts read a lot to me like a lack of taking responsibility for your own vote. It's easy to cast a vote, preface it with, oh he probably won't die anyway, then when he does die, you can shake your fist and blame someone else. I think it is foolishness to expect an Indy whose only goal is to survive to use the lynch save on someone other than themself. I expect more from you LC. Your musings surrounding the roles of the indies so far has been questionable at best, I just don't understand your purposes.

Like, wha? You previously found LC's helpful posts to be the sign of an indy at worst. And LC started the case against a New Rogue. But with no mention of Aces (weird vote) or Bullz (who you JUST voted for), it's the Long Con is bad show.

This is followed by a whole bunch of "I just don't think LC is good" posts.

And then I think Daisy realized she was getting nowhere and flipped herself back over to Aces.

Spacedaisy wrote:TH, I said fair enough, I still think you are suspicious meaning, "Iacknowledge that you are giving a defense, i, just not buying it." I can see how it looks like, you're right but I just going to suspect you anyway, which is not what I meant. I do think his actions around this magenta stuff is shady, but I am willing to vote somewhere else today and put him on a back burner seeing as how I'm apparently the only person suspecting him. In particular, I am perfectly fine with *voting Aces* for his vote on Day 1, his appearance and just dropping a vote onto the bandwagon here today.

For the record, Aces voted SVS day 1. I'm guessing you meant Day 2. But this clearly feels like an about-face.

None of these suspicions have any flow. They don't feel natural, they start and stop as needed. And there was never ANY MENTION of Bass.

Daisy is bad. Imma vote her.

So, going by a search of the word bass, it seem as though the only person to outright defend bass was S~V~S. I'm not sure that that means she is bad, generally she is a more subtle player than that, especially assuming that if she IS bad, she wouldn't even have been sure that bass was indeed a fellow baddie, thus even less reason to stick her head out.

Next is to study the bullz voters and see which of them simply never mentioned bass at all.

Sorry for the absence today, I was just very busy.

Reading back through Aces' posts, I think there could be something to the case against him. I'd actually like to know what Roxy thinks of Aces. Roxy has been an interesting combination of self-defence (understandable) and sort of lightweight comments about "nose twitches" and "watching people", but apart from her one big push against Epig, she has kind of held off ever since a few people in clouding me started eyeing her a bit. I sort of have an indy role in mind for her, and right now to get her a bit more engaged, I'm hoping she will sound off on Aces.

I'm still kind of down with a bullz lynch as well but I'm not very engaged on it, tbh. I've got to read back and see who supported Bass the most, to see how I feel about SVS/DH, etc.

I'm so sorry MM, I really can't follow this, lol.

Interesting that Epig was apparently killed by an Old Rogue, I was starting to believe he WAS one,so I'll just trust that that role knows what they are doing.

Regarding DH and SVS... I am getting sleepy and must head to bed, but tomorrow I've got a lot of rereading to do, to find all of the people who weren't keen on a Bass lynch. it won't mean that they are all bad, but it will provide some insights.

And finally regarding Roxy, I've moved to a bit more of a neutral stance on her, I believe she may be an indy and I don't think I will be pursuing a lynch in her direction today.

Long Con wrote: The original case against Bass was that his contribution was weak - the "one in six of the non-Llama-and-Epig voters is probably a baddie" - and that he was laying really low. I don't feel like people voted for him for the Cheat curse, that connection was just made by you as, like, a lucky guess or sharp intuition.

Would it be sketchy to try and create a numerical system for Metalmarsh to communicate better?

Well that's what I mean, his contributions to the game were not helpful and just sounded like filler, and the curse thing didn't change that. He was just posting to post. I'm glad of how it all worked out!

SD, I'm on the fence regarding Long Con. I see your points about him appearing very helpful etc. but I think I've seen him do that a few games recently, so I'm sure how to read it. And I feel like his Magenta tilde breakdown is likely correct, so it IS a bit surprising that the lynch stop hasn't happened yet. I don't really think he's civ necessarily, just... I'm meh on him. Not sure one way or the other. But your case seems based on gut, which I respect but it can be hard to jump onboard someone else's gut feeling, you know?

Okay, so first off, to BF:

We didn't lynch Bass because he said the word "cheat". We lynched him because he seemed to show up, throw around some fluff to make sure everyone noticed his curse, and then promptly disappeared until taking heat later on. It was the forced "look at my curse" combined a complete and utter lack of any attempt to contribute ANYTHING that pinged me. Because with just putting the word "cheat" in a post, you can still talk quite freely about your suspicions, etc.

MM's situation is much more rough, it seems. By replacing every single noun and pronoun and whatever with "Timmer" the curse-r has rendered MM completely unable to contribute anything. There is no way to tell what she's saying. While this very well may be another deliberate curse, or MM may be lying, I do not see the same situation here as with Bass 1.0. At ALL.

@SD, I'm getting there!

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Hi timmer. No, timmer meant timmer. Not timmer, timmer. What do timmer think, timmer? Er timmer, not timmer. timmer!

That's just cruel. It makes me think of this:

Epignosis wrote:
Yeah, I believe you. Still cool though I guess, right?

Absolutely! BTW, I'm feeling better about you after thinking about the game. In case you were wondering, etc.

Epignosis wrote:I think timmer made a long shot call that just so happened to be right.

Oh totally this^, I'm not claiming to be anything but lucky on this one. I've had about 100 conspiracy theories, through the various games, that were on about the level of this one, but only about 8/100 were right. I'll take it as a pleasant surprise that I was right!

I feel like there is a decent chance that Bass is Double Down, cursed himself, and is using it as a shout out to Blacksmith

Sweet!!!

I hope MR is okay.

S~V~S wrote:

timmer wrote:@long con, could you expand on your bf vote? Rabbit feels a bit like he is being forced and also is calling you out. And you vote along with him. Can you expand on your thoughts regarding that?

This ^^

And FZ, for me weak suspicion TH is bad TH. I am fairly sure this is how he views me too (and he's right, tbh). He ha had my attention ever since he applied to be Epis sidekick. Still not sure about Epi, but not AS sure as I was yesterday.

Linki~ I would also like to know what happened to Aces suspicion of me.

Yeah, that Aces vote reeks.

@Aces, what happened to your svs suspicion from Day 1? Why did you pick bf?

@long con, could you expand on your bf vote? Rabbit feels a bit like he is being forced and also is calling you out. And you vote along with him. Can you expand on your thoughts regarding that?

This is turning into an interesting lynch.