METALMARSH89 / INAWORDYES
Day 1
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Sloonei wrote:VOTE A2THEZEBRA, happy!?
I know Sloonei said he would be relatively inactive and asked who to vote for. I'm still weirded out by this behavior though. This vote looks extremely opportunistic, especially considering Sloonei asked who to vote for, and ika pointed at MP, not zebra.
Golden wrote:Metalmarsh89 wrote:You can call me Marmot.
That said, I'll be busy most of the rest of today, but I'll be around tomorrow to chat with all you fine amphibians.
I'd rather call you Marmellow.
Shoo fly.
Frog wrote:Epignosis wrote:Frog wrote:Annnnd I'm 5 beers deep. AMA
Seventeen here. About average. A little high since it's the weekend.
Haha, ok I'll just assume it's medical.
Let me tell you something, I used to dive into that when I was in university. My attendance suffered, my grades suffered, and I had to work extra hard just to win class contests or take the best exam grades. Eventually, and this came gradually, I realized that if I wanted to be responsible I had to drop that habbit. I dropped it, and I got into all sorts of stuff. I'd spend my weekends learning how to fish, or woodwork, or run marathons, or get into oil painting, or writing novellas, or getting into game theory, or studying commodities markets, etc. The doors pretty much opened up for me then on in because I was ready to accept whatever I could pursue. Honestly, my biggest fear was if anything ever happened to my family or my friends, I wanted to be in the right mental state of mind to do something about it. The extra efficiency was a benefit.
#oldfartwisdom
TLDR - I'm 5 years old #troll
I learned a bit about game theory last term. Good stuff!
Inawordyes wrote:Dyslexicon wrote:Inaword, Why is your vote on a complete lurker? You have like no game content so far, just being lol haha flowers yay.
VOTE INAWORDYES
Yay, a vote! Someone likes me!
Haha sorry, I'm playing less like MU and more like MM, and on my homesite we tend to RVS the players who haven't posted or voted on D1 because our games are role-heavy. We go for getting as much info on everybody rather than necessarily figuring out the scum team straight-out. I was also busy all day today so I didn't have any time to come in and adapt to new info. I'm catching up now though, so if there's anything of interest that y'all want me to take a look at, quote it and let me know! I probably won't reply to much on my catch up, so feel free to call attention to something I may have skipped over too.
Yay, someone plays like me!
Wait, you weren't talking about me were you?
Frog wrote:"shinigami aren't permitted to undo that which has been fated. At that moment jealous became something that is ne ither sand nor rust, he died. The only reminder of his existence became his deathnote which remained his life"
FYI - in the champs games do not expect to ask public questions wrt the game to the host. Doing so is considered shooting an angle and breaking the rules.
Speaking of:
Question to JJJ:
How do you kill a shinigami?
I've been a Shinigami twice in games here. I survived to endgame both times.
Moral of the story, Shinigami don't die.
Frog wrote:I'll post my scum games:
http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... Mafia-15er
... my home site's admins have literally been either permabanned and/or deleted my scum games as troll. Gae as fuck. I quit the site (requested ban) as soon as I was recognized the MVP of the site 3 years running for 20+ games.
I've never been scum.
I left this giant post in tact, but
the IAWY portion is in orange. It's a very fluffy non-interaction.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Dyslexicon wrote:Golden wrote:Look at how passionate people are in the for and against camps, you included. Are you really saying we are getting nothing?
I'm talking about his content now. I haven't read all the posts surrounding MM and IAWY even. I don't particularly feel MM is scum and there's no way of knowing IAWY's alignment. Also, I fear that if IAWY flips town then there's a lot of town on his wagon, and scum can easily defend it and throw suspicion on town later. It's just a much higher risk to me lynching someone who has barely talked.
If this is definitely going to happen, you should point out to us later which scum is easily throwing suspicion on the townies.
I don't think this was a serious post.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:sig wrote:Fine though if nobody wants to listen to me and switch there vote, then we can get to lynching the mafia tomorrow starting with those who are voting for Inaword, I'd actually right now like to lynch Silver. If either herself or Soneji flip mafia I'm confident the other is.
I could also see MM being mafia even if inaword does flip, which is why he didn't vote for him and tried to move it away from inaword a bit.
The inawordyes wagon was an out of nowhere "Hey, who wants to CFD somebody?" I was trying to lynch Sloonei before Yes had any votes.
Why does it not bother you that this happened, and what about the people that voted on it? This wagon is leading one of your top suspects after all.
This orange stuff seems rather dismissive of the IAWY wagon and suspicion altogether. So that's something.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Here is a rainbow list.
Marco
Epignosis
Dyslexicon
Silverwolf
Soneji
Zexy
DrWilgy
Frog
Golden
Inawordyes
ika
Psittaciform
sig
a2thezebra
MovingPictures07
Sloonei
First MM rainbow list as IAWY in the yellow/null region. It would be a good way for a teammate MM to stay away from the whole IAWY situation.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Golden wrote:I should switch back to IAWY
Don't plz
Here MM tells Golden not to switch his vote from Frog back to IAWY, so that's another instance of resistance to the suspicion.
Day 2
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Here is my updated rainbow list. Not a lot has changed, but with three dead players and a few movements.
Marco
Dyslexicon
Soneji
Zexy
DrWilgy
Golden
Inawordyes
MovingPictures07
a2thezebra
Psittaciform
sig
ika
Sloonei
Players I have only gut-read and/or have no idea and need to look into more: Dyslexicon, Zexy, Inawordyes, Psittaciform. Pretty much every player I haven't played with before.
MM's rainbow list to start d2 has IAWY in the null region again.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Inawordyes used the word unexpectedly twice in a row. 
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Inawordyes wrote:Inawordyes wrote:Metalmarsh89 wrote:Inawordyes used the word unexpectedly twice in a row.
No need to be pedantic.
I didn't realize I did that, sorry!
Is that your only response to my post, though? IIRC you were one of the people who was most on my case for being inactive, which kinda makes me suspicious that you're not more into calling out points I made.
No, I was on my phone at that moment, and that was the first thing I noticed. :P
I'm on my laptop now, so I can read further than the OT intro.
MM's first interaction with IAWY.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Inawordyes wrote:Has anyone noticed that in MP's ISO reads, he's just reading posts null after null after null? I don't understand how he's getting town and Mafia leans when he's not reading all the posts he quoting either way. I understand why he'd scumread me for cultural differences - which he expressed that he knew from pregame stuff is my personality anyways - but it seems like he's being a little heavy-handed in keeping the read. I do think he's on the right side of the numbers, but if he keeps on me like that, he's gonna drop spots fast.
Ugh. This means going back and reread MP's ISOs. But this point you raise might make it worth it.
Inawordyes wrote:I didn't like how Soneji entered the thread guns-blazing with an aggressive attitude, I also didn't like how he didn't address my RVS vote at all but used it offhand as a reason to scum read me. I would lean him baddie for that.
I don't understand the backlash on Zebra and the wagon that formed on him for self-voting, that was kinda weird, and then IIRC (and correct me if I'm wrong, I'm going from memory) all his voters went from him, to MP, to me.
That's what I got at the moment, quote forward relevant issues or points that were directed at me since I know where we're quite a few of them, and I'll do my best to answer them.
This would be another good thing to look into for the verification. But at least it would be less tedious than the above task. :P
MM finds potential value in IAWY's observation regarding my ISOs being largely full of null individual post reads, but "slight" overall player reads. If I remember correctly, MM was the only player who expressed intrigue or agreement with IAWY's point.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:An ISO of MP's ISOs This is ridiculous, but not as ridiculous as MP having over 300 posts on Day 1. For the numbers included next to each name, the first one is the number of null posts read, while the second number is the total number of posts observed.
Psittaciform - (2/2) All null post reads, but gives a slight mafia read.
Metalmarsh89 - (6/6) All null post reads, but initially gives a slight mafia read before considering to push it to moderate mafia read.
Long Con - (10/14) 10 null posts, 2 town posts, and 2 scum posts. Ultimately gives Long Con a slight mafia read.
Inawordyes - (10/17) 7 mafia posts (that vary in strength) and the rest null, which result in a moderate mafia read on Inawordyes.
DrWilgy - (15/15) All null posts that result in a null read.
Soneji - (7/9) 7 null post reads and two town post reads, which result in a slight town read.
@Inawordyes: I see what you're saying here. 3 players on this list roughly equate to null reads, but MP gives them slight or moderate mafia reads anyway. He did say in my ISO that he is ignoring null reads. I don't understand that reason for this, especially since he still gave DrWilgy a null read (or more accurately, gave no read). Anyway, if you want to look deeper into the ISOs, the links are here.
MM ISOs my ISOs and counted the number of null / other individual reads I had, as well as my overall player reads. He seems to see IAWY's point, but doesn't mention anything alignment indicative about it. I was a bit confused about this then, and I still am now.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:MovingPictures07 wrote:Metalmarsh89 wrote:An ISO of MP's ISOs This is ridiculous, but not as ridiculous as MP having over 300 posts on Day 1. For the numbers included next to each name, the first one is the number of null posts read, while the second number is the total number of posts observed.
Psittaciform - (2/2) All null post reads, but gives a slight mafia read.
Metalmarsh89 - (6/6) All null post reads, but initially gives a slight mafia read before considering to push it to moderate mafia read.
Long Con - (10/14) 10 null posts, 2 town posts, and 2 scum posts. Ultimately gives Long Con a slight mafia read.
Inawordyes - (10/17) 7 mafia posts (that vary in strength) and the rest null, which result in a moderate mafia read on Inawordyes.
DrWilgy - (15/15) All null posts that result in a null read.
Soneji - (7/9) 7 null post reads and two town post reads, which result in a slight town read.
@Inawordyes: I see what you're saying here. 3 players on this list roughly equate to null reads, but MP gives them slight or moderate mafia reads anyway. He did say in my ISO that he is ignoring null reads. I don't understand that reason for this, especially since he still gave DrWilgy a null read (or more accurately, gave no read). Anyway, if you want to look deeper into the ISOs, the links are here.
Yes, I was trying to ignore null reads and make an actual determination at the end of every post, but I was clearly mentally exhausted by the time I got to Wilgy, and considering all 15 of his posts I had no idea what to do with alignment-wise, I gave up.
I'm afraid though I fail to see what the point is. Do you disagree with any of my ISOs or reads; if so, what did I interpret differently than you? I want feedback.
IAWY asked about your reads and why you read everything as null, but still came up with mafia reads. This was just my research on the topic. I discovered you were ignoring null reads, which is why IAWY noticed this trend.
I don't disagree with this tactic from you. This is just an observation. But I do want to know why you chose to ignore null when giving your stamp of approval.
MovingPictures07 wrote:Furthermore, I find it suspicious that IAWY throws subtle heat at me (note that he doesn't call me scum for my ISOs or anything like that) for contributing content to the game, when he's barely done that himself.
As to why many of my reads were null:
1) I included every post that every player made in nearly every ISO, and considering it was still before EoD d1, yeah, there was a lot of non-alignment-indicative content.
2) We didn't even have a single result/flip so it's difficult to discern interactions.
3) I didn't want to force alignment indicative content out of thin air, and I only wanted to call something town or mafia lean with respect to a post if I really felt I could reason through a convincing argument one way or the other.
So enlighten me, MM, what was IAWY's point exactly?
You should ask him, not me.
I pressed MM on this ISO observation/criticism, and clarified my ISO procedures, since he seemed to find merit in it, and this was MM's response.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Your read of MovingPictures07 is... polarizing.
Why does he fall as a town read despite shady stuff?
MM comments that IAWY's read of me was "polarizing" and asks a clarifying question.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Inawordyes wrote:I'm going to bed now, have some stuff to do in the morning. Quote me or leave me notes if you post something that you want my reaction on, I'll change the vote from Golden most likely, so don't be alarmed that it's staying overnight.
Have a good night. And remember, do the moment!!@#R%@#T#Q
Fluffy interaction post.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Dyslexicon wrote:
Marmot is coming across more scummy for me for lighting fire under the MP suspicion without really owning it. Does he really believe that MP and/or Sig TMI'd? (See my response to Ika). He also furthered IAWY's "point" about MP giving slight leans on content he found mostly null. It's such a non-point to me, cause MP accounted for this and the whole point was obviously to try and get some kind of read on the lurkers.
No, I don't believe MP or sig TMI'd. Well, at least not sig (despite my lighting the fire under him).
I already explained my thoughts on the IAWY thing. I thought he made a good point. But after looking into it, I discovered it wasn't very meaningful, because his observation didn't account for the whole story.
In response to Dizzy's inquiry, MM says he's already explained himself regarding the IAWY ISO thing, saying he didn't think it was very meaningful.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:VOTE INAWORDYES
I see you watching the thread. What's up?
A "pressure" or prodding vote of IAWY with less than 45 minutes until EoD. Seems a bit meaningless since the IAWY wagon was in full force.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Question: If IAWY was scum, would he not roleclaim in this situation?
MM asks about IAWY roleclaiming if scum.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:MovingPictures07 wrote:Metalmarsh89 wrote:Question: If IAWY was scum, would he not roleclaim in this situation?
I don't know. If the scum know the setup, then he could try to fake claim, yeah?
Would someone who's more comfortable with this kind of setup chime in here?
I imagine would either try to survive, or at least try to draw out the real role, if the one they claim exists.
Further speculation on IAWY roleclaiming, in response to a question I asked.
Summary
- MM failed to take a hard stance on IAWY throughout all of d1 and d2. MM places IAWY in the null placement of both of his rainbow lists.
- For d1, MM stayed mostly silent about IAWY, but he did at least commit a soft defense in systematically dismissing the d1 IAWY wagon formation on a couple of occasions.
- MM interacts a fair amount with IAWY on d2, but doesn't seem to use any of it to form any read of him, which is the strongest point against him. I think this is relatively indicative of a teammate relationship; if it were true, it means that a teammate MM avoided taking any stance on bussing or hard defending IAWY, which is perhaps the most common teammate treatment in early game stages from my experience.
Conclusion
I would call MM's interactions with IAWY
teammate compatible, and further, I'm willing to call them potentially
teammate indicative.
What do you think?
I'm going to work now, be back in a while.
Sorry for being instrumental in your mislynch D1!
