The Syndicate

And welcome back Scotty!

I'll stop spamming the thread for a few minutes now.

Oh man, JaggedJimmyCONFIRMED. Epic!

Man, I think INH is my version of Jay's me (wait, what?). By that I mean, my head says he's mafia but my gut is like HE'S SO TOWN MAN. LIKE SO TOWN!

Nice colors on the first rainbow list, LoRab.

a2thezebra wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I find it interesting that you GTH read me town Jimmy since not so long ago I was a dark orange skittle.

Consistency can fuck itself. I don't care.

It should be noted though that the rainbow list was the result of extensive analysis -- head stuff.

GTH reads are all about gut stuff. Sometimes there are differences.

In your experience, which is more reliable for you - head stuff or gut stuff?

Historically probably head stuff. Gut stuff has made a resurgence in recent memory -- I used to ignore it completely and that's no longer true. But I still probably do better with the head stuff.

Therefore, MP is bad.

Are you not at all willing to consider the converse perspective?

a2thezebra wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:We all may remember the continuing trend that He Who Names The Most GTH Town Reads is more likely to be bad.

Technically I'm tied for that award this time, but I'm still looking at you motel room. :P

On the other hand, if we all remember that continuing trend as you say we do, those of us that are bad can take advantage of it.

Looking at you MP. (though I'm the Most Scum Reads actually)

Looking at me for what? You lost me.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:My head and my gut are locked in a violent conflict over MP.

How so?

My head says town and my gut says scum.

This is backwards. My head says scum and my gut says town.

Oh, LOL, scratch my surprise then. :P

Oh, and I also meant to say, that's totally cool Jay. Answers to those questions don't affect my read of you. I just was trying to understand your read of me.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:My head and my gut are locked in a violent conflict over MP.

How so?

My head says town and my gut says scum.

I'm going to absorb and think about your responses to the interactive read. You asked me a bunch of questions in there, but I'm going to just leave them alone unless you need answers to affect your own read of me. I don't want to clog the thread with a long back-and-forth of posts at MP/JJJ size.

Oh really? I expected the opposite of this based on what you were saying. Hmmm.

You want me to still check out that ISO from before or is it moot?

I'm back.

BBL

Linki w/ Quin: You bet. Will you be around in a few hours perhaps? That's probably when I'll be back.

Rainbow #5

Sloonei
Quin
MacDougall

LoRab
JaggedJimmyJay

a2thezebra
Dom
indiglo

DrWilgy
insertnamehere
motel room

Glorfindel
sprityo

I have no red reads right now. Ugh.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:My head and my gut are locked in a violent conflict over MP.

How so?

Let me update my rainbow, then I'll have to leave for a bit again. I'll respond to whatever else you all want me to sometime later tonight, just let me know.

Various responses (all in sarcastic orange) to JJJ's interaction post about me and Elo:

Elohcin:
I'll tack these two Day 1 posts together, because they're the only times Elohcin acknowledged MP's existence in this whole game (MP has nearly 300 posts). That alone might be some cause for concern. In the first post she is talking to me more than MP. In the second, she is responding to the revelation that Neil Hartley is not a character in Mad Max.

I can't help it that Elohcin wouldn't talk to me. I kept trying to engage her, which I think is evident, but she kept ignoring me.

MovingPictures07:
This post came up above, but I focused on Eloh's response. Now I'll focus on MP. I don't care for this post at face value. That he was willing to state a suspicion and specifically tack on the comforting "but I'm not sure I find you suspicious for it" bit is problematic. I don't know what that phrase adds to this post, it seems a pointless caveat. If that's how he feels, why is the point being made?

How is it problematic? I was being specific that I disagree but I was torn on whether to find it suspicious (due to being opportunistic/manufactured or sincere). I suppose I should have elaborated upon it, but I revisited this in subsequent posts.
Eh.

I'm sorry, I just couldn't tell how much of this was tongue-in-cheek reaction baiting and how much was sincere, even though I figured it was probably the latter. So that's why I asked.

Still the orange pile in MP's second rainbow -- One thing I'll say is that MP seemed unusually hesitant to color anyone red. I know it was early in the game, but that hasn't stopped him before.
Day 1 vote for Elohcin. It stayed there. It was also the last second-last final vote of the phase though, and it left Elohcin two votes behind the eventually lynched Scotty. There were about 24 minutes left in the day at this point. An Elohcin lynch was probably unlikely.

There's some potential this was a credit-grab vote. It is somewhat close in character to what MP and I did cooperatively as baddies in Transistor -- push our team mate into a near-lynch scenario at the end of Day 1 just for credit, because we knew she wouldn't actually get lynched due to lack of votes available (ironically our team mate was Elohcin then).

I grant this is a highly speculative notion.

I suppose this is a fair interpretation, even if it is the wrong one (your notion, that is). Is there anything you want me to elaborate upon here or address further? I'm not sure what to say about it.
Directly accusatory and in Elohcin's face. I like this one.

What do you like about it?
MP was consistently and clearly supportive of my motions against Elohcin.

How does this influence your read?

A breakdown of Elohcin's treatment of Neil Hartley -- I like this effort. MP wasn't just saying things, he was hammering them home and providing the content that led him there. Nice look.
It's never my favorite thing when a bussing accusation precedes the scum flip that makes it possible.

Why? Is this similar to the conversation we had before?

This follows the same frustrating trend I've experienced all game so far with MP -- a bunch of little pings, but nothing conclusively informative. There are lot of judgment calls that need to be made with this interaction.

Does one simply add up all the small pings? Is that the same thing as a big ping? I don't really think so. I think one has to decide which pings and which positives are the most moving, and then go that way. With a gun to my head I call MP town. I acknowledge though that he is known for his propensity for bussing, and I don't think this is content is outside his baddie arsenal.

I realize that bussing is a more comfortable norm for me when I am mafia than defending my teammates, and that I am known for notorious bussing incidents that led my team to victory or failed spectacularly, so I can see I guess why you're so torn about it all. I'm not sure how else I can help. What else can I address or talk to you about?

Alright, let me try to start a response to JJJ's interaction thing now. BBL

I have to admit I'm a bit surprised at my own GTH of INH. I need to give him a hard look.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:GTH GO

A2THEZEBRA
INSERTNAMEHERE

Town
Mafia

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:GTH GO

MOVINGPICTURES07
DRWILGY

top bloke, good egg
Mafia

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:GTH GO

JAGGEDJIMMYJAY
MACDOUGALL

Town
Town

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:GTH GO

MOTEL ROOM
INDIGLO

Mafia
Town

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:GTH GO

LORAB
SPRITYO

Town
Mafia

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:GTH GO

SLOONEI
GLORFINDEL

Town
Mafia

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:GTH GO

DOM
QUIN

Town
Town

a2thezebra wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Does one simply add up all the small pings?

Yes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Is that the same thing as a big ping?

Yes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I don't really think so.

Annnnd this is why MP is such a good baddie. Too many of us let him get away with shit, waiting for him to slip up majorly and he never does.

This is why I always get mislynched instead of NKed as town. Enjoying your tinfoil hat there?

This response really isn't helping my read of you. To claim this is tinfoil material when both J and myself presented in-context posts directly from your ISO that simply don't look town-motivated...it comes off a bit nervous and desperate.

That's fair. I'll take a look. I just didn't see much explanation for your interpretation of my behavior other than quoting a few of my posts and just asserting hard conclusions. So yeah. Seemed like tinfoil to me. And admittedly I was frustrated.

Oh I'm in time for GTH reads? Badass. I'm in.

a2thezebra wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Does one simply add up all the small pings?

Yes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Is that the same thing as a big ping?

Yes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I don't really think so.

Annnnd this is why MP is such a good baddie. Too many of us let him get away with shit, waiting for him to slip up majorly and he never does.

Problem is, if this logic held -- I'd get lynched in every game I play. Certain playstyles lead to pings naturally.

I'm not vehemently opposed to an MP lynch. I don't think it's a clear read either way.

I'm not talking about playstyle-based pings though, I'm talking about legitimate pings. Objective pings if you will.

There is no such thing as an objective ping.

That's ludicrous. You wouldn't even consider a scumslip an objective ping? There are objective pings from every baddie every game whether any member of town ever catches them or not.

Depends on the nature of the scumslip. Many times people call something a scumslip when it really isn't.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Jay, I'm confused. How did you get from:

[insert stuff]

??????

Am I really your second strongest mafia read? You just said I was GTH town above, and it appeared to me like your concluding language was stronger against others, at least at first glance. What changed in the span of an hour and a half or so? I don't understand.

As always, the rainbow list is tiered, not ordered by individual name. You're orange. That's all you are.

I'm extremely torn on you, probably more than I've been on any player in my last few games. At first I was willing to lean town just for benefit of the doubt, but when it became evident that I had numerous greens already I changed my mind. There isn't enough room for benefit of the doubt. You have a bunch of things to answer for.

I don't know why the "hour and a half" time frame matters. A change of mind can happen in a second.

Okay, I thought it was tiered, my bad.

I'll answer those things, give me a bit here and I'll do so.

I just didn't see anything in the thread that would have led to you changing your mind in that hour and a half. That's why I asked.

Alright, I'm not too happy with SAS right now, so I'm here for another hour or so.

Sigh. I better get back to working on this paper anyway. I'll try to be back before the deadline though to respond to that interaction thing and the ISO.

What could I have possibly done differently this game to be getting a town read from some right now? I admittedly am feeling a bit peeved right now because I feel like there's nothing I could have done differently. I understand my behavior is not outside the realm of what I would do when I'm mafia, but that applies to everyone else in this game right now.

I finally read Elo correctly and it doesn't do me any favors.

Jay, I'm confused. How did you get from:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Generic JJJ post about baddie interactions -- Elohcin and MovingPictures07

This follows the same frustrating trend I've experienced all game so far with MP -- a bunch of little pings, but nothing conclusively informative. There are lot of judgment calls that need to be made with this interaction.

Does one simply add up all the small pings? Is that the same thing as a big ping? I don't really think so. I think one has to decide which pings and which positives are the most moving, and then go that way. With a gun to my head I call MP town. I acknowledge though that he is known for his propensity for bussing, and I don't think this is content is outside his baddie arsenal.

to this an hour later:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Does one simply add up all the small pings?

Yes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Is that the same thing as a big ping?

Yes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I don't really think so.

Annnnd this is why MP is such a good baddie. Too many of us let him get away with shit, waiting for him to slip up majorly and he never does.

Problem is, if this logic held -- I'd get lynched in every game I play. Certain playstyles lead to pings naturally.

I'm not vehemently opposed to an MP lynch. I don't think it's a clear read either way.

and this:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I'm not talking about playstyle-based pings though, I'm talking about legitimate pings. Objective pings if you will.

Were there any particular moments in my MP analysis, or in MP's posts otherwise, that made you feel like it was an increasingly damning case against him? Which of the little pings do you find the most important?

You're asking me to give you square circles. My concern of MP is that his read of Elohcin appears fabricated given her flip, from his first post about her to the last. No, there's not one post or moment that stands out as damning, but his first three posts that address her are the staple standard of "I'll just go wherever town goes with this" if you really look at them.

Okay. I think MP is the toughest read in the game right now, so I'm just looking for whatever input I can get from everyone else to get to a clearer conclusion.

to this less than an hour after that:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Quin
LoRab

Sloonei
Dom
Glorfindel
a2thezebra
DrWilgy
insertnamhere

indiglo
MacDougall
motel room
MovingPictures07

sprityo

I changed my GTH read on MP just in the act of making this rainbow. There are too many people with better town cases than him for him to be green.

??????

Am I really your second strongest mafia read? You just said I was GTH town above, and it appeared to me like your concluding language was stronger against others, at least at first glance. What changed in the span of an hour and a half or so? I don't understand.

a2thezebra wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I'm not talking about playstyle-based pings though, I'm talking about legitimate pings. Objective pings if you will.

Were there any particular moments in my MP analysis, or in MP's posts otherwise, that made you feel like it was an increasingly damning case against him? Which of the little pings do you find the most important?

You're asking me to give you square circles. My concern of MP is that his read of Elohcin appears fabricated given her flip, from his first post about her to the last. No, there's not one post or moment that stands out as damning, but his first three posts that address her are the staple standard of "I'll just go wherever town goes with this" if you really look at them.

It all appears fabricated? You cannot fathom a town perspective for my behavior?

a2thezebra wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Does one simply add up all the small pings?

Yes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Is that the same thing as a big ping?

Yes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I don't really think so.

Annnnd this is why MP is such a good baddie. Too many of us let him get away with shit, waiting for him to slip up majorly and he never does.

Problem is, if this logic held -- I'd get lynched in every game I play. Certain playstyles lead to pings naturally.

I'm not vehemently opposed to an MP lynch. I don't think it's a clear read either way.

I'm not talking about playstyle-based pings though, I'm talking about legitimate pings. Objective pings if you will.

There is no such thing as an objective ping.

a2thezebra wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Does one simply add up all the small pings?

Yes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Is that the same thing as a big ping?

Yes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I don't really think so.

Annnnd this is why MP is such a good baddie. Too many of us let him get away with shit, waiting for him to slip up majorly and he never does.

This is why I always get mislynched instead of NKed as town. Enjoying your tinfoil hat there?

MovingPictures07 wrote:Oh boy, an interaction analysis about me. What's higher priority, Jay, this thang or your previous ISO?

By this I mean, which should I set aside time to analyze and respond to first?

Oh boy, an interaction analysis about me. What's higher priority, Jay, this thang or your previous ISO?

indiglo seems OK from a tone perspective; I think her frustration is understandable from either alignment. I don't have any read on her at the moment, but GTH I'd say town based on this recent stuff. I think her behavior lines up more with a frustrated townie than frustrated mafia, if I had to choose, even if barely.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:TFW you go back to ROT3K to search for "Dom" in your own ISO and you get 287 matches because "dom" is in "Kingdom". Aaaaaaargh.

Add a space

...Son of a bitch, that worked! Thanks man! Now I know.

Dom, here is a quote from ROT3K:

MovingPictures07 wrote:For folks who played Transistor when zebra was acting "weird", ignoring people's requests for elaborating upon her actions, and talking like a cheerleader or something, Dom is that this game. This is a BS lynch.

Who's here? Someone get a CFD going with me. I haven't finished catching up yet, but at this point I'm thinking DFaraday and timmer, the latter due to what I posted above and DF because I think he looks the most potentially opportunistic of the people who have already voted Dom, MM, and Russ to me. That said, I'd be cool with anyone who's absent or mostly absent since it seems this will be a continuing problem. Almost anyone but the three people with the most votes, frankly.

Is that a sufficient citation? I'm tired of searching my own ISO now. :P

TFW you go back to ROT3K to search for "Dom" in your own ISO and you get 287 matches because "dom" is in "Kingdom". Aaaaaaargh.

I will need to mull over these interaction analyses.

LoRab, I appreciate your response to my prodding of more suspects. It seems we're coming to different conclusions on Sloonei though. When you get a chance would you be able to point me to specific posts of his that are bothering you so we can talk about them?

Holy giant LoRab post, Batman!

Sloonei wrote:MovingPictures
Quin

zebra
Jay
motel room
Mac

DrWilgy
Dom
Insertnamehere
indiglo
Glorfindel

sprityo

LoRab

A lot of this is fuzzy and things are subject to change greatly depending on LoRab's alignment. That's where I want to start tomorrow and we'll see where things go from there.

These rankings are also subject to change whenever. I'm still processing things. I'm gonna step away from the thread for a while in a minute.

High five, town buddy Sloonei!

Serious question now though: Can you elaborate on your reads of those light green and yellow folks?

I'm here, but not for too long. Gonna see if I can at least catch up with n3 stuff.

Hey folks, I've been busy with stuff. I'll try to be back before Night 3 ends, but no promises.

Okay, that result is badass. It was absolutely fun to play with you again, Elo, but it's great to have your role gone.

I need to do some more paper stuff. To do list when I return tomorrow:
1) Catch up on n3 posts
2) Read and respond to JJJ ISO about me
3) ?????? (please quote this post and add requests here)

See you later, folks.

YES! I WAS RIGHT ABOUT ELO FOR ONCE!

MacDougall wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I'd like to think I am an expert at Wilgy and I think he is a civilian here.

I'm not nearly as confident in my ability to even remotely read the guy. What makes you think he is civilian, if you can point to anything specific?

Just seems really calm and isn't playing up any weird tactics here. He's vibing like the wrongly lynched Tree Mafia Wilgy to me.

That's fair, thanks. FWIW I'm tone reading him as genuine as well, hence his rise to slight town on my most recent rainbow.