GOLDEN / INAWORDYES
Day 1
Golden wrote:Silverwolf wrote:So basically I have Golden and Inawordyes as possible scum so far.
I know you have posted about why you find IAWY scummy, but any chance you could give a brief summary or specify the one thing that most pings you? I find as of now I have very little read of him or memory of his contributions.
Golden's first post regarding IAWY is a question to Silverwolf asking her to explain her mafia read of him.
Golden wrote:Rainbow time - decided to treat it like gth and have no null reads.
Medium Town
Marco
Sloonei
Zexy
Mild Town
Frog
MovingPictures07
Silverwolf
Dyslexicon
Long Con
sig
Mild Bad
ika
Inawordyes
Psittaciform
Soneji
Metalmarsh89
Moderate Bad
a2thezebra
DrWilgy
Golden's first rainbow list has Inawordyes in the "Mild Bad" category, with 4 others, and not as bad as zebra or Wilgy.
Golden wrote:MovingPictures07 wrote:Holy shit guys, IAWY is scummier than I expected. I'm feeling at least a moderate mafia read here. Stay tuned.
We also have some 'quiet IAWY is scum meta' posts from someone who knows him.
It's almost silly to get to this point and it be about who I'm 'willing' to lynch - but frankly, I'm willing to lynch anyone on the 'scum' side of my rainbow.
In response to my pre-ISO declaration that IAWY looks bad, Golden notes Frog's "quiet IAWY is scum meta" posts. He then notes that he'd be willing to vote for anyone on the "scum" side of his rainbow.
These first few posts could be Golden setting up a bus opportunity in anticipation of IAWY receiving serious heat, if he is IAWY's teammate.
Golden wrote:Silverwolf wrote:IAWY I would vote for and lynch in a heartbeat
Well, I'd join you. Shall we?
Golden wrote:VOTE INAWORDYES
That will do for now.
After Silverwolf expresses a strong desire to lynch IAWY, Golden joins in and votes for him. He could have felt inclined to hop on his teammate due to Silver's pressure on him.
Golden wrote:Metalmarsh89 wrote:I really hope you all will reconsider who you will lynch today.
Are you talking about IAWY or yourself?
Golden wrote:Epignosis wrote:I also noticed in my pop ins that ika and Silverwolf have followed each other all over the board in votes. Is that a correct assessment?
They definitely followed each other on to me, and MP, and IAWY.
These two posts mention IAWY, but that's about it. I included them anyway.
Note that Golden switches his vote from IAWY to Frog during EoD d1.
Golden wrote:Marco wrote:If IAWY flips scum, wouldn't look good for Golden.
I don't really care how it would look. But, no matter what Frog flips, IAWY will still be at the top of my conversation on day 2.
This is at the very end of Day 1, in response to Marco saying Golden would look bad if IAWY flipped scum.
I like this post; it read sincere to me then and it does now. But, if Golden is mafia and IAWY is a teammate, then his EoD behavior is entirely reasonable. I'd say this is all potentially teammate compatible.
Day 2
Golden wrote:VOTE INAWORDYES
That's just a starting point before catching up.
In his first post on d2, Golden votes IAWY as a starting point.
Golden wrote:Inawordyes wrote:Golden wrote:VOTE INAWORDYES
That's just a starting point before catching up.
Fair enough, there's not much to catch up on though because with Frog gone we've reached standard levels of posting haha.
Where are you at in your catching up? If you have caught up, do you intend on keeping this vote, or would it better be served elsewhere after seeing how I've responded?
End of day, but I can say already my vote is unlikely to stay there, because I have a hunch I'm working on.
Golden says his vote is unlikely to stay on IAWY because of a hunch. This could be a way for a mafia Golden to try to sway the d2 lynch away from his teammate, despite the close call on d1.
Golden wrote:New rainbow
Strong town
Marco
Zexy
MovingPictures07
Moderate town
a2thezebra
sig
Slight town
Dyslexicon
ika
Slight scum
DrWilgy
Inawordyes
Metalmarsh89
Psittaciform
Soneji
Moderate scum
Matt
A new rainbow list puts IAWY in slight scum, but with 4 other players (Wilgy, MM, Psi, Soneji) and above a moderate scum in Matt.
Golden wrote:Metalmarsh89 wrote:Golden wrote:Metalmarsh89 wrote:Hopefully Golden this makes you feel more comfortable.
I'd feel most comfortable if I understood your current read on me, and why.
I was actually thinking that you and Sloonei were on a team together, which is why you didn't vote for him yesterday, but did today. You had time to discuss things overnight, and plan out a bus attempt today.
But with Matt replacing in, that makes the tin-foil moot. Sloonei wouldn't replace out if he was planning on being bussed. That doesn't fit. I still find Sloonei suspicious and would like to hear from Matt sooner than later. As for you, I would list you as slight mafia still.
Besides this, as I've made the point before... I don't 'plan' busses. Ever. There is no value in it. Bussing is a phenomenon that MUST feel natural out of your reads. If it feels like you've suddenly shifted direction, it's pointless. If I'm going to bus, it's my call alone and I make it in the moment... and if I have day time talk, I'll say sorry to my teammate, but I'll do what I have to do.
I never
truly considered a sloonei vote yesterday. But I'll admit, after he switched from Frog to IAWY, I very nearly switched my vote to you. That was the moment where I started tinfoiling the pair of you as teammates. It looked to me a little like getting civ cred AND helping make sure a teammate didn't go home all in one. And it's not as though your case on sloonei ever amounted to any danger for him, because so many people were town reading him.
The flaw in this tinfoil read is - you are vibing town to me. It's why I feel much more strongly about sloonei than I do about you.
This post isn't really about IAWY, but "IAWY" is mentioned in it, so I'm including it anyway, since it provides more of Golden's train of thought regarding his d1 vote.
Golden wrote:I like Dizzy's concept of IAWY being bussed by ika.
Would also work with sloonei being bad, if sloonei perceived a bus to be a particularly strong tactic.
I can see how this would be an informative lynch choice even if it isn't my current preference.
Here Golden expresses agreement with Dizzy's theory that ika bussed IAWY, and that such a concept is compatible with Sloonei being bad (who he was most highly mafia reading at the time).
Note the yellow. This could be a way for a mafia Golden to justify attention on non-IAWY candidates, but still maintain a bussing stance on his teammate.
Golden wrote:Inawordyes wrote:Golden wrote:Here's the thing, zebra. Full seriousness.
I am town, but I'd sooner mislynch you and leave my vote on you than be lynched myself. I'm playing this game for practice for champs. I don't actually care if you go down. I don't actually WHO goes down. I'm going to do my best to try to solve the game and thats all there is to it.
I'll do what I have to do to survive in this game. If that means lynching the people who think I'm bad, even if they are town, then so be it. Means I get longer to practice.
I don't have any teammates to come to my rescue and help. If I do get lynched today, I'll call it a failed endeavour. Certainly, I'll give up, because I don't have time for this shit. I'm playing because JJJ was nice enough to give me a chance to practice, even though I really don't have time for it.
If you don't care about the game itself and just see it as practice, then you're not practicing that well because you're missing a fundamental part of the experience, which is that you have to care at least a little. Surviving to a new day means nothing if you don't care about who's surviving with you, you can't solve the game if you're disinterested in haphazardly taking down goodies in your wake.
Not everybody you think is Mafia is mafia, nor is everybody you think is Town town. If you haphazardly lynch whoever pings your radar without concern for whether they're goodies at the end of it, then you're not learning anything that will help you in the MU games, and from my own experience, I can tell you that you will be called to account for it.
That's my 2¢.
I don't know how you make that cents symbol.
Fair point.
This is Golden's first direct interaction with IAWY, so it's notable, especially since it's only (1) an inquiry regarding the cents symbol and (2) expressing acknowledgement that IAWY made a good point with respect to Golden's attitude towards lynching zebra even if he was town reading her.
Golden wrote:Marco wrote:But suspecting someone all phase and jumping off from them for town cred seems like a completely counter-active move. That would only serve to foster more suspicion on you.
If that is true, where are all the sloonei votes? Why am I the only person coming out and expressing suspicion of it? The only others views on it have been as a result of agreeing or disagreeing with my own.
Frog was town, and no-one but me is pointing at sloonei for jumping off a town wagon at all.
What if IAWY came back bad... would make sloonei look particularly good, yeah?
The Sloonei I'm used to (like my buddy in Turf Wars) might bounce his votes around, but he'd always end up on someone he felt was scum... not just move away from someone who 'might add value'.
It just doesn't feel right to me at all.
Golden wrote:Marco wrote:I didn't quite understand the underlined bit.
Anyway, I'm going to stop speaking for Sloonei as I feel like I'm getting cornered (not by you or anyone, by myself) into defending him. And he was actually suspicious to me until he sort of gave up on the game.
He flipped from Frog to IAWY. If IAWY then flipped scum, sloonei would look better for it.
I (personally) don't think you are speaking for sloonei so much as expressing why you suspect me. I won't push you into the same boat I was pushed in yesterday. These things ARE different.
Golden wrote:Inawordyes wrote:MovingPictures07 wrote:Dyslexicon wrote:MovingPictures07 wrote:Would you be able to rank your scum reads somehow?
What did you think of my Soneji ISO earlier?
I could, eventually. But I still feel I want to hear more from most of them (since they are all/most pretty quiet). It still feels unsolved to me in a way, if that makes sense. But IAWY is my prefered lynch, and my strongest suspicion.
I was so tired when I read the Soneji-ISO I don't really remember. Sorry. I do appreciate you putting in the work, and I will surely get back to it. Apart from that I've looked into his ISO on my own today to check up on things. I'm not convinced by him, he's a null I'm suspicious of. He could very well be teamed with IAWY if he is indeed scum. I don't feel his push on Sig is very good. Firstly because I feel Sig is a player that would be easy to push on (easy target, for various reasons), and two because the argument doesn't seem all that strong to me and gets a bit repetative. I don't think it makes that much sense for scum!Sig to push on Soneji of all people if Sig is scum. That being said, I don't think it's impossible for Soneji to be town doing all this either. So it's inconclusive atm.
No worries, that's understandable. I feel like we're mind melding the most this phase, so I'm with you on IAWY. It would take some real town spark from IAWY to get me to move that vote, because I have not liked his recent posts (though he seems like a nice fellow).
Not a problem, let me know what you think when you get to it. Yeah, sig is an easy mislynch (or lynch in general), so I think he's particularly difficult to read. I need to figure him out myself.
Thanks for the elaboration.
Once you read me as Mafia you stop looking at me as town, so commenting that you don't like my recent posts is meaningless except as a tool to convince others to look at me the same way, which is a scummy tactic, or possibly a cop tactic but I don't think you would've been this subtle about a redcheck on me if that was a possibility.
Golden wrote:Inawordyes wrote:Golden wrote:Inawordyes wrote:MovingPictures07 wrote:Dyslexicon wrote:MovingPictures07 wrote:Would you be able to rank your scum reads somehow?
What did you think of my Soneji ISO earlier?
I could, eventually. But I still feel I want to hear more from most of them (since they are all/most pretty quiet). It still feels unsolved to me in a way, if that makes sense. But IAWY is my prefered lynch, and my strongest suspicion.
I was so tired when I read the Soneji-ISO I don't really remember. Sorry. I do appreciate you putting in the work, and I will surely get back to it. Apart from that I've looked into his ISO on my own today to check up on things. I'm not convinced by him, he's a null I'm suspicious of. He could very well be teamed with IAWY if he is indeed scum. I don't feel his push on Sig is very good. Firstly because I feel Sig is a player that would be easy to push on (easy target, for various reasons), and two because the argument doesn't seem all that strong to me and gets a bit repetative. I don't think it makes that much sense for scum!Sig to push on Soneji of all people if Sig is scum. That being said, I don't think it's impossible for Soneji to be town doing all this either. So it's inconclusive atm.
No worries, that's understandable. I feel like we're mind melding the most this phase, so I'm with you on IAWY. It would take some real town spark from IAWY to get me to move that vote, because I have not liked his recent posts (though he seems like a nice fellow).
Not a problem, let me know what you think when you get to it. Yeah, sig is an easy mislynch (or lynch in general), so I think he's particularly difficult to read. I need to figure him out myself.
Thanks for the elaboration.
Once you read me as Mafia you stop looking at me as town, so commenting that you don't like my recent posts is meaningless except as a tool to convince others to look at me the same way, which is a scummy tactic, or possibly a cop tactic but I don't think you would've been this subtle about a redcheck on me if that was a possibility.
Hope, that was not a slip up, don't you dare read it as such.
The whole last part of the sentence just baffles me completely.
Golden finds IAWY's "cop check" statement baffling, but he doesn't say anything specific re: alignment, so this could be a mafia Golden's attempt to see how heated suspicion surrounding IAWY gets before committing to a hard thread reaction. I'm not sure I'd believe a mafia Golden would do that at all, but there's the angle at least.
Golden wrote:Marco wrote:Golden wrote:Marco wrote:Soneji wrote:Marco wrote:I also feel like most of the people on the Frog wagon (or those retroactively calling him scummy this phase) misrepresented him, intentionally or otherwise. This is in terms of his "inactive hunting" push. Or maybe I'm just sore you guys CFD'd one of the most active and experienced players (and one of my biggest town reads) to save two fairly inactive players (both in my scum reads).
He did inactive hunt though, to the point of actively discouraging discussion on basically anyone but them.
I think you missed out on a lot of context because you basically skimmed the whole thread in less than a couple hours. Moot point now, since Frog is already dead. I'm just finding it odd that I was the only person actually understanding him when I was the one opposing him for half of Day 1.
I disagree. I felt him very understandable, and said so, in that first half of day 1. I did not agree with his perspective, but I felt it was town.
Frog's first half of day one was great.
What about the second half put you off about him? Did you think the drunk bit was an act? I felt I could understand his reluctance to "hunt". It felt to me like he was losing patience in the dayphase and just wanted to see some flips before spending more time on reading people. 72 hours is quite long. Most of us are used to 24 hour phases. Especially since a large part of Day 1 is RVS.
Golden wrote:Marco wrote:I'll admit that even I was very curious about the Frog flip near the EOD. I could've switched to IAWY myself to save Frog, after all, but the general confusion of the rapid changing votes and self-doubt led me to stay on MM.
I feel like this is also part of why I stayed on Frog in the end. I'd convinced myself that I needed to understand the enigma. I also felt (at the time) that it would give us information. Well, I feel it would have given us a lot if he flipped scum.
But in hindsight, vanilla really didn't give us info at all.
Don't you think MM or IAWY lynches would've given us more information, regardless of what they flipped?
1) I did feel like it was an 'act' (not the being drunk thing, but just his whole demeanour). I have expressed this before in different ways, but I'll do my best in expressing it in a new way. I felt like he was trying to dominate the town direction and push it in the direction he wanted, and to me it felt wifom (like, does he want to be town leader, or does he want us to think thats what he wants), and he pushed his particular gambits in a very dismissive way (I'm right, you're wrong) and talked about how no-one would have the balls to nk him, and I began to feel as though the whole thing was one big pile of wifom with the deliberate goal of making himself too much of an enigma to be touched. I've seen scum do things like that and run to the end too often. In fact, I came out the other side feeling like I was still right about the whole thing being an act - and maybe even why he was doing it - just wrong about the fact he was scum.
2) I find it difficult to judge how much info we'd have gotten (or get now) out of a town flip from IAWY or MM.
The IAWY-specific content is in 2) here. He elaborates in the following quote:
Golden wrote:Marco wrote:Golden wrote:1) I did feel like it was an 'act' (not the being drunk thing, but just his whole demeanour). I have expressed this before in different ways, but I'll do my best in expressing it in a new way. I felt like he was trying to dominate the town direction and push it in the direction he wanted, and to me it felt wifom (like, does he want to be town leader, or does he want us to think thats what he wants), and he pushed his particular gambits in a very dismissive way (I'm right, you're wrong) and talked about how no-one would have the balls to nk him, and I began to feel as though the whole thing was one big pile of wifom with the deliberate goal of making himself too much of an enigma to be touched. I've seen scum do things like that and run to the end too often. In fact, I came out the other side feeling like I was still right about the whole thing being an act - and maybe even why he was doing it - just wrong about the fact he was scum.
2) I find it difficult to judge how much info we'd have gotten (or get now) out of a town flip from IAWY or MM.
1. Yes, he was meta-gaming throughout the latter half. In my experience, it's best to not lynch such players Day 1. This is why I can understand Sloonei taking his vote off Frog. Regardless of Frog's alignment, it was guaranteed that he'd interact with people a lot and that would give us a lot of reads.
2. Well, MM and MP were the lynch candidates. MM tried to start a wagon on Sloonei but people moved on to IAWY instead. An IAWY flip would give us info on the voters who switched to him and insight into Sloonei's and MP's alignment. MM was a divisive read for a lot of people and he had his own leads. His death would've clarified quite a bit too. What info did we get from the Frog flip?
On 2 - explain to me what info we get from voters who 'switched to him' and how we get into the alignments of MM and MP if IAWY was town, in a way that we would not have gotten exactly the same from people who moved away from MM and IAWY to Frog, and the alignments of MM and IAWY? I can't see how these two things are different? Expressly tell me what kind of info we would have gotten, and why, from a town IAWY flip and why we do not have analagous information from a Frog flip. I don't understand this at all.
From my perspective, the reason we don't have data from a frog town flip is primarily because we have no scum flips to try and factor in what it means. It may give us information later. But similarly, an IAWY town flip feels like it would be exactly the same to me... I can't fathom what useful information would have come from it.
Golden justifies that a town Frog flip is equally meaningful to a town IAWY flip, and that this has relevance to his EoD d1 behavior amid some criticism from Marco for his switch from IAWY to Frog.
Golden wrote:Inawordyes wrote:Do the moment, I guess I'll start getting some info from mynp nulls reads. Since Gikden is here, may as wel, start with him!
VOTE GOLDEN
Heyo Golden! I fully intend to change my vote to someone else, but right now I have you in my larger-than-it-should-be list of null reads, so since you're here right I'd like to have some sort of interaction. Anything you can tell me about your reads and specifically some thoughts on myself, Soneji (who is currently my only Mafia read) and MP (who seems to be a bit shady)?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MP - last time I remember playing with him where he was scum, I nailed on him on day one. Then, I died shortly afterwards and didn't get to lynch him until I got a rezz several days later, by chance, and by that point he'd done a major AtE gambit and I'd begun to doubt my read. But really, I think I am decent at reading MP. He does change things up a bit, but I think I'm much more likely to scum read his town game than town read his scum game. But he has mostly been town recently, hasn't had many scum games.
MP's cycle of frustration and apology, and in fact almost everything about MP, reeks of his town game to me. If he is scum, he has me deeply fooled and I'll congratulate him for playing a very strong scum game. The reasons I've seen for suspecting him have all been things standard to MP's town meta. He is a unique player and I like to wittingly call him 'the suicidal moron' because, when town, he is very good at doing something to make himself look incredibly scummy and end up being lynched for it. Of the people whose meta I know decently well, MP is the only one who I feel very firmly about in terms of their likelihood to be town.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You - I need to get a better grip on you. I feel like you are very likable and feel like you fit here. You have a very affable personality, in fact the kind of personality that makes me naturally want to town read you. I feel the need to beware of this. I do feel guilty often for lynching people who are new here (regardless of their affiliation) because I want people to feel welcome and stay. Especially nice people. So, I'm trying not to take this into account.
I do think others have raised good points for why you could be bad. I also think there is merit to the idea that, absent of having any communication on day one, if you were a member of mafia I could see why your teammates may have felt comfortable bussing you if they thought you weren't actually going to show up.
In some ways, you feel like a good lynch right now through little fault of your own (other than your relative absence). It does feel like lynching you could create a lot more interesting context to both day one and day two. I am listening to what you have to say, but I'd like to get a much more thorough sense of how you are feeling. As you yourself have said, you have far too many null reads right now for me to have any confidence in you. But, then, you are well behind. I hope you catch up.
My big problem in terms of reading you is... I just don't know you. That makes you hard to read.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't know why Soneji wasn't around for a while - has he answered this? I have found so far that soneji has a unique angle on events and seems to be endeavouring to contribute. I can't put him above 'slight scum' on my radar yet primarily because he doesn't have enough content yet, and what there has been is quite dense so I don't feel like I've developed a strong sense of where he stands.
However, on balance, the content that soneji has provided has good feelz and thinking solely about how he has approached the game when apparently starting from a long way behind, it does make me feel a little good about him.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Right back at you. How do you feel about Soneji, Marco and myself? Even if its null, what impressions have led you to null?
This is a
direct interaction with IAWY, an instance too rare due to IAWY's spotty d1 activity. In it, Golden responds to a "prodding" vote by IAWY (which he also cast against DrWilgy).
This content is very important because it is a detailed elaboration of Golden's IAWY read. There's a lot of potential waffliness in here that could be contributed to them being teammates. What do you folks think of this post?
Golden wrote:Dyslexicon wrote:I especially am puzzled by how Golden seems to avoid IAWY and not really giving a hard stance on him. It weirds me out a bit, but overall I think Golden is more likely town.
I don't know quite how this is the feeling you get, perhaps I've been a bit too fair in giving my hesitations, but let me clear this up.
My hard stance on IAWY is scum. I helped start the wagon on IAWY yesterday, without me that wouldn't have been a viable lynch option any more than Frog was, and at this point in time IAWY is one place where I feel my vote could realistically end up.
I do have hesitations in this read. I don't know IAWY, for one.
In response to an observation by Dizzy that Golden seems hesitant to act on his mafia read of IAWY, Golden elaborates here. This is another important post, since it gives us further insight into Golden's thought process regarding IAWY.
Is it a townie genuinely doubting his read for specific reasons or a teammate trending the soft bus line? You tell me.
Golden wrote:Inawordyes wrote:and I ask the vice-versa to you Golden, what are your current thoughts on Marco?
I still read Marco as pretty solidly town. I was irked by statements that I felt suggested one play style is preferable to another, but ultimately (especially after a sleep) see it as NAI, so I'm sticking with my read from before then.
Another direct interaction with IAWY, this time in response to IAWY's request for a Marco read. That's about it though.
Golden wrote:Dyslexicon wrote:Why is Golden on the same wagon as IAWY who he apparently suspects?
IAWY's votes hardly seem to be indicative of who he thinks is actually bad. He is voting for his null reads to get them to talk.
Voting for a teammate within that context would not only be normal, but if scum practically mandatory.
This is a brilliant statement if Golden is IAWY's teammate, because it explains
exactly what IAWY did as scum, voting for his teammate Golden to prod him to "talk", even though Golden had already been talking plenty.
Golden wrote:I'd be pretty happy with IAWY or Wilgy. Either will do me fine. Would be great to see it come down to the two of them.
Golden says his sentiment is that he'd be "pretty happy" with either an IAWY or DrWilgy lynch.
Golden wrote:VOTE INAWORDYES
Call it a pre-emptive strike against developing things in the thread that suggest taking IAWY out of the lynch mix.
Golden wrote:Matt wrote:Before a third person connects me and IAWY, I'd just like to say...
Nice to meet you, IAWY. Sorry you're about to get lynched apparently, while Wilgy is free to roam the town while killing us in our sleep
I'm still considering a Wilgy lynch. My flip was to stop IAWY from vanishing from the lynch pool entirely, as it sounded like some people were angling for that.
Golden wrote:VOTE DRWILGY
Golden wrote:Dyslexicon wrote:Oh look, a 3 way tie!
VOTE GOLDEN
In that case
VOTE INAWORDYES
I don't want a tie THAT much.
Golden wrote:Oops, I take make that last vote
VOTE DRWILGY
Didn't realise the tie was already broken.
In the first post, Golden casts a vote for IAWY once he felt the momentum against him to be fading.
Then, Golden states clearly that he's still considering a Wilgy lynch, emphasizing that his flip to IAWY was to keep the IAWY momentum from vanishing entirely.
He votes for Wilgy, then votes IAWY, then votes Wilgy again. Flip flop!!
Golden wrote:Marco wrote:If Wilgy is lynched and flips town, what leads are we looking at? I feel like his flip will give us the least information.
You seem focussed very much on the information we get 'if someone flips town'.
Yesterday, it was about it being three vs two.
This time, if its a two way battle between IAWY and Wilgy and the loser flips town, why would we get less information from Wilgy's townflip than IAWY's townflip?
This is in response to Marco regarding "information" lynch flips; Golden consistently argues that the thread won't get less information if Wilgy flips town than if IAWY does.
Golden wrote:It hasn't escaped my attention that, as a rule, I trust the people on the IAWY wagon a lot more than I trust the ones on the Wilgy wagon
Golden notes that he trusts the players on the IAWY wagon more than those on the Wilgy wagon.
Golden wrote:Marco wrote:Regardless, why not just answer the question? You might convince me to vote for him.
I mean, I think your point that we don't get a lot from Wilgy if he flips town is completely fair and true. I can't think of anything. I just don't know that we get a lot from IAWY flipping town either.
I just don't know that we will get much from ANY town flips until we have at least one scum flip.
I wasn't really trying to convince you to vote Wilgy - I'm very comfortable knowing you are on the IAWY train.
What do you all think?
Golden wrote:Matt wrote:Inawordyes wrote:....
Are you bad?
Linki - Golden, MP, you thinkin' up reasons before IAWY's town flip on why you voted him? "Well, there were more trustworthy people on the IAWY wagon soooo...."
Sure, why not. It's not like I was one of the initiators of the IAWY bandwagon on day one or anything...
In all seriousness, though, I don't think I've ever blamed anyone else for why my vote is at the end of the day and nothing should ever be read as me excusing my vote on the basis of just 'trusting someone else'.
This post is the beginning of a trend wherein Golden emphasizes being the player to initiate the IAWY bandwagon on Day 1. If he is IAWY's teammate, it's a great defense to be able to have.
Golden wrote:Marco wrote:Golden wrote:Marco wrote:Regardless, why not just answer the question? You might convince me to vote for him.
I mean, I think your point that we don't get a lot from Wilgy if he flips town is completely fair and true. I can't think of anything. I just don't know that we get a lot from IAWY flipping town either.
I just don't know that we will get much from ANY town flips until we have at least one scum flip.
I wasn't really trying to convince you to vote Wilgy - I'm very comfortable knowing you are on the IAWY train.
First, IAWY gives more info just going by numbers. Then you have the larger number of people with reads on IAWY. Then you have the tie from yesterday to look at. And the semi CFD. Is it just me who thinks IAWY unquestionably has more info attached to him?
Though you're right about town flips not giving us much, that doesn't mean we get no info from them.
I think all of this is correct. I'd sign off on it.
After Marco responded to Golden's point re: information lynches (specifically with respect to IAWY and Wilgy), Marco responded again, and Golden steps back a bit from his previous hard stance, noting that he agrees with Marco's assertions. Not sure this indicates anything though with respect to whether IAWY is a teammate of Golden, but eh, I included it anyway.
Golden wrote:VOTE INAWORDYES
PS, if IAWY scum, I think we are in a world with a town cop. That comment he made still majorly pings me. Like he was pre-emptively thinking through a defence against a red peek.
Golden switches his vote back to IAWY and notes that he thinks if IAWY is scum that a cop exists in the setup.
More notably, Golden says the comment regarding the red peek / cop that IAWY made still majorly pings him. Whether Golden expressed a "major ping" previously is up to anyone's interpretation. What do you folks think?
Golden wrote:Hey, IAWY
Assuming you are lynched, and no matter what your alignment.
Your positive outlook on the game is fun. I hope you stick around here
Lastly, Golden says IAWY's positive outlook on the game is fun and hopes he sticks around. This doesn't have any relevance to Golden's alignment, but it's a good ending post.
Phew! That was a lot. Now onto the summary and conclusion.
Summary
- Golden interacted directly with IAWY only a few times, but he had expressed opinions of him all throughout most of d1 and all of d2. His interactions with IAWY are not at all aggressive.
- Golden did not show a
specific willingness to vote for IAWY until after Silverwolf had done so.
- Golden's suspicion of IAWY during d1 was largely due to IAWY's lack of activity. He had voted for IAWY d1, but then switched to Frog during an incredibly heated d1. Combined with Golden's second post on d2 where he said his vote is unlikely to stay IAWY, this could have been a calculated move by a mafia Golden to soft bus his teammate, keep him alive in the eleventh hour, and try to keep attention away from him during d2, despite all the while seeming focused on him and upholding the fake bus stance. It would all be a very accomplished act.
- Although Golden expresses doubt throughout d2 and flip flops his vote constantly between IAWY and Wilgy, he ends d2 by voting on the IAWY wagon which is fully established within the last few hours of d2 EoD.
- Until the end of d2, Golden holds firm that an IAWY lynch, although he suspects him, wouldn't be any particularly more informative than a Wilgy lynch, and he often equates the two during d1 and d2 in terms of his voting preference. Note that Wilgy is still alive today on d4, even though Golden has had a continued suspicion of him and pushed for his lynch.
- Notably, there are a few posts made by Golden that would
exactly explain IAWY and Golden's behavior as teammates.
Conclusion
Well, this is a really tough case. Golden's behavior is
teammate compatible, for sure, though it'd be an excellent (but largely soft) bussing job. I'm not sure I'm sold that it's teammate indicative, because it would require an incredibly consistent and conscious effort by Golden to bus his teammate, yet display signs that he was seriously doubting his suspicion in an organic fashion, so I won't say that it is. If Golden is IAWY's teammate, his behavior was very calculated throughout and top-notch.
I want input on this pronto from everyone. Regardless of whether Golden is town or mafia, he could be the single player that breaks the game for town, in large part due to his behavior regarding IAWY.
