The Syndicate

Sloonei wrote:

indiglo wrote:I smell much better now. What shall we discuss until it's time to look at Zombies?

I will soon be deciding if trying to "catch up" on the thread is doable, or a hopeless endeavor.

You surely do not need to read the entire thing. I think trying to do that in a situation like yours just causes you to fall behind even further in the thread. It's better to use what time you have talking with people in the thread, if you can. So um

Based on the content on this page alone, who looks better: MP or JJJ?

indiglo wrote:I smell much better now. What shall we discuss until it's time to look at Zombies?

I will soon be deciding if trying to "catch up" on the thread is doable, or a hopeless endeavor.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Does this by chance include the game on MafiaManiac that I'm going to be playing too?

I did include that game, but I just checked and apparently it's being postponed due to slow sign-ups and a Halloween themed game they want to do.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Have you talked a crap load about lorab? Where is this load of crap?

The load of crap representing my LoRab talk is probably smaller than the loads of crap representing Mac and MP. The post you asked me about was probably my most substantive LoRab thing today. It was also a positive assessment. Agree or disagree, it's a good reason I wouldn't scum her.

Am I allowed to request ISOs? I want a LoRab ISO on my desk by noon o clock tomorrow.

I can try. It's very possible that "I'm playing a Mafia game" is about to become "I am playing three Mafia games". It wasn't supposed to line up that way, but it did.

Sloonei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:This is the slowest 40 minutes of my life.

it's been 40 minutes!? That was a fast 40 minutes.

DrWilgy wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I'd like to think I am an expert at Wilgy and I think he is a civilian here.

Why is "Wilgy Expert" a title people are striving for?

MacDougall wrote:I'd like to think I am an expert at Wilgy and I think he is a civilian here.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:If Elo flips town, I'm going to flip a lid.

I don't care as much as I usually would. The Bengals won. The Ravens and Steelers lost. I'm good today.

I hope the lynch works out. I tried my best.

Sloonei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:And you both have been non-committal about me... Seriously, I am Mr. Town. Town read me already. :P

I am currently doing this. It's just taken me a while to get here.

Sloonei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I'm more curious about the players you opted not to include, but I'm not about to ask you to give a read of every single player in the game right now.

It doesn't sound like you're talking about everyone in the game. Who did I not include that you I think I should have? Who did I include that you think I shouldn't have?

Macdougall, LoRab, Wilgy, and MP would be the first four names I'd like to hear you talk about in this context.

What about me?

He's been non-committal on you all game long. I have been too, so I'm not accusing him of fence-sitting or anything. I just want to know what his current thoughts are and why he settled on you not being a part of the scum team. But I guess he already addressed this via his assertion that you and Eloh are not compatible.

Sloonei wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I'm more curious about the players you opted not to include, but I'm not about to ask you to give a read of every single player in the game right now.

It doesn't sound like you're talking about everyone in the game. Who did I not include that you I think I should have? Who did I include that you think I shouldn't have?

Macdougall, LoRab, Wilgy, and MP would be the first four names I'd like to hear you talk about in this context.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:DrunkMac asked people to come at him, so I threw poop at him.

G-Man wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I could not possibly be in more anticipation of this flip.

And you'll be in anticipation for this flip for another 10 minutes or so.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Regarding Glorfindel, he and I had a brief exchange earlier in the day about Rico's role that I am still sorting out in my head. The conversation went nowhere in terms of specific reads being developed, but that doesn't mean he brought it up for no reason.

I need to look back at Rico's posts for any evidence of information he may have acquired on Day 1.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I haven't felt any inspiration from Elohcin's defenses. Indeed that there are so many of them without much else is itself a problem. I hope I'm right.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Quin wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Pending Elo's mafia flip, I'd say GTH I see the most likely teammate bus votes for her being from LoRab and (believe it or not) JJJ. Discuss.

Can you elaborate?

Well, I spoke on the Elo/LoRab interactions I saw a bit up there when I was catching up quickly. I'd have to dig into them a bit more, but I find it odd that LoRab and Elo have arrived at such pronounced mafia reads of each other, especially when I see Elo's hunting to be faked.

It is notable that the only other main player Elo has had interaction with this game is JJJ. I find her treatment of him inconsistent, but I'm not sold that means they're teammates. It is actually JJJ's treatment of Elo that bugs me a bit more. Again, I would have to do some investigation and maybe I would come to a different conclusion because I've generally been seeing JJJ as genuine this entire game, but right now I could see some of his conclusions as well as his strongheadedness regarding Elohcin to be assisted by confirmation bias.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Apparently I became more suspicious while I was away today. Bummer man.

Quin wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Pending Elo's mafia flip, I'd say GTH I see the most likely teammate bus votes for her being from LoRab and (believe it or not) JJJ. Discuss.

Can you elaborate?

Sloonei wrote:

indiglo wrote:Well I was trying to read the pages since I last checked in, then looked at the clock and realized I had 5 minutes until poll closing. So for now, as much as I hate to, I self-voted. I don't feel informed enough to jump on either of the current leading wagons.

I did see my name mentioned more than once, which I must say, I find very flattering. Sadly, however, it's also very wrong, which is embarrassing for the mentioners. And can't be based on anything since there's no content, which I find amusing for a variety of reasons.

I think the only reason your name has come up at all is the lack of content.

Sloonei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Elohcin

Rainbow update upcoming.

What was your thought process in deciding this vote?

MacDougall wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Rainbow #4

Sloonei

JaggedJimmyJay
a2thezebra
Quin
MacDougall

insertnamehere
Dom
DrWilgy
LoRab (read very much pending Elohcin flip)

indiglo

motel room

Glorfindel
sprityo

Elohcin

I'll elaborate on these once I have more time, given that it's 9 minutes before EoD. The flip will inevitably affect these as well.

I could have sworn you were scum reading me lol.

Elohcin wrote:

LoRab wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I am interested to see what Elo has to say.

I am placing a vote for spirityo.

Why are you placing a vote for Sprit? Just curious.

Also, in my defense, why would I kill Epi Night 1. Sure, this is a game and I keep my RL separate for purposes of the game. I am not going to stand by my love through thick and thin, Day and Night, teammates or not. I am not nuts. I can keep the game separate from my undying love for him in RL . But within my memory of games (which I admit isn't awesome) I've maybe killed Epi once, and I think it was late in the game when we were about to win. I think I have tried getting him lynched maybe once when I really thought he was bad, even though he wasn't. If there are other options available, I tend to try and let Epi live. Unless he is a real threat, I am not going to kill him. And in this game, he admitted that he had nothing on me. I wasn't worried about him. But...I guess I should have been. B/c apparently him voting for me made everyone squeemish. "Oh wow, Epi always reads Elo so well. He must know she is bad." yada yada yada. Makes me wonder if he had never voted me if anyone would be looking my way.

I like Sloonei's new take on the whole matter. Not only b/c it is better for me personally, but because it make sense. And I do think Lorab has been a sneaky sneak this game. I said as much yesterday or sometime.

I am not sure who I will vote yet. But I have to get my head out of mafia for a few hours.

You would kill Epi night 1 because he can read you. Also, "Unless he is a real threat, I am not going to kill him. And in this game, he admitted that he had nothing on me. I wasn't worried about him." sounds like there is something on you that he could have had. Why would you be worried about him having something on you if you're civ? Also, why does it matter if you weren't worried about him if you don't have a kill? This whole post makes me more suspicious of you.

Also, You did not say yesterday that I've been a sneaky sneak this game--only that you always read me as being sneaky and that you can't decide if you always read me this way or if you think I'm bad this game. I am not.

1. Who are you to tell me what I would do? I would not kill Epi Night 1 even if he could read me as well as he thinks he can. He is my husband. I know he enjoys mafia. I would never just kick him out b/c I am afraid he will read me one way or the other. That is just as absurd as keeping him around if I truly think he is bad.

2. There is ALWAYS something for someone to have on someone else in a game of Mafia. Whether that thing is true or not is another story. When Epi said he was going to vote me, I honestly took it as a joke. So much that I didn't even bother to go click on "view results" b/c I didn't think he actually did it.

3. It matters that I wasn't worried about him b/c... if I WERE bad and if I WERE worried about him, then I would have killed him. But, when neither of those things are in play....his kill cannot be blamed on me. So, I am telling you, you cannot blame ME for Epi's kill. That is why it matters.

4. Do I have to use the exact same word each time I talk? Am I an old robot? No, I can say sneak one day and sneaky-sneak another and it means the same thing.

I think your reaction post to mine sounds like a scared Lorab who has been found out.

Elohcin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:What I'd most like to see from you at this point, Elohcin, is reads. Hopefully you can catch up soon.

I am just now sitting down after church/grocery shopping/lunch. So, I am not caught up....just have a few pages. But...honestly, I hate giving reads. I don't like to make suspicions. ...because no matter how genuine a suspicion may be, I always get crap from the thread that I am just making it up and that I am bad. So....until day 4-5 (assuming I make it that far), I usually keep semi-quiet on how I feel about players. And....that is how I will play this game as well. I can be an asset to the civs if I make it far enough into the game, I promise. But right now...I choose to keep my reads to myself unless something REALLY crazy pops out to me. But even when I think something crazy pops out to me and I mention it, I can feel the eyes in the room rolling.

now to go read the thread...

MacDougall wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Unless you are to elaborate you are saying my reaction to ricochet is manipulative? I have very little context further than that to help you see that I am not Mafia.

Sure.

Nearly everything you said about Ricochet on Day 2 was patently false. The subjective things you "read" about Rico's play was universally negative, like you had no interest at all in trying to see a possible townie in him. You painted an image of how he was playing this game which did not remotely align with how he was actually playing this game. You accused him of spending all of his focus on you (wrong), you gave his non-Mac-related content no chance whatsoever (tunneling at best, opportunism at worst). You literally said you weren't reading his posts after Zebra had previously suggested the possibility (I hesitate to believe you and think you could have been straw manning Ricochet on purpose).

You reduced his content into a much less valuable thing than it really was despite repeated insistence from Sloonei, MP, and I for you to look at his posts in a different light. It's classic discredit behavior. I'm left to decide whether you literally didn't read a thing he actually said on Day 2 and just gave him shit anyway, or you did read it and fed into the bad press he was getting by manipulating it into something it wasn't. The presence of INH and Zebra provided a great climate for that kind of manipulation, because they wanted to lynch him as much as you did.

Dude, he pissed me off. I have never been called for a policy lynch before. I wanted him to be bad to justify it. Sorry that I was wrong.

Quin wrote:What's the case against sprityo, folks?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Spoiler: show

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:In an attempt to better organize my thoughts about the game, I have split the 15 living players into three groups purely by post count. I will then make inferences about those groups.

Top five post count, not including me:

MovingPictures07
a2thezebra
Sloonei
MacDougall

If one of these people is bad, I think the most likely is Mac. I would rank the likelihood of the possible number of scum in this tier as follows: 1 = 0 > 2 > 3 > 4

Middle five post count:

insertnamehere
motel room
LoRab
Elohcin
sprityo

This looks like a potential hot bed to me. I've already stated some suspicions of Elohcin and sprityo. I have made a single positive assessment of motel room, but it's not the strongest thing and I wouldn't exonerate him right now. LoRab is a valid enough suspect even if my gut doesn't quite agree right now. INH is about the same thing -- he can be validly cased despite my gut uncertainty.

Same ranking: 2 > 3 > 1 > 4 > 0

Bottom five post count:

sanmateo / Quin
Dom
DrWilgy
Glorfindel
birdwithteeth11 / indiglo

I have liked Quin a lot since he came aboard. There's not much more he could do to show a pro-town mindset having replaced into a relatively large thread. Dom got off to a great start but has since tapered off. I think he looks like a townie at face value. DrWilgy is a prototype of himself, which is pretty null. Glorfindel has had understandably been unable to keep up with the game consistently; I do think though that he's more suspicious than most others. I'm not sure he's made the most of the opportunities he has had. indiglo hasn't been able to get involved yet, so that remains null.

Same ranking: 2 > 1 > 3 > 4 > 0

Jay, not trying to sound rude but not sure how else to word this: What precise purpose did this analysis serve? What did you take from it, rather?

Quin wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'll be upgrading Quin to a town read, I know that much.

That's nice, want to talk about it?

Sloonei wrote:I had just put my vote on Elohcin, but in the time between submitting the vote and typing up a post to announce it, I changed my mind and moved it to LoRab. Here's why:

LoRab wrote:Svs strikes me as an off target for a kill. She didn't have a lot of posts (for her). And didn't seem to have any extraordinary opinions that would warrant a kill. She did have some points against mac (particularly that either rico or him was likely mafia) and points against elo. The question is if there is framing going on or if one of them is bad. This definitely makes elo look more suspish in my book. The question I have is if she's being framed; but would mafia use their first two kills in order to frame someone? I'm undecided on that question.

This post set off some red flags right away when LoRab made it, but I've had trouble figuring out why. SVS being killed purely to frame Elohcin is a somewhat plausible theory, sure, but I hardly think it's the most apparent motive for knocking off SVS. So I found it odd that anyone would immediately draw such a conclusion.

This was LoRab's first post after the night kill. It came not too long after G-man's post and it was the first theory anyone offered about the kill. It struck me as a very oddball initial reaction to the nightkill. It's something could plausibly been arrived at, but as a the first read anyone came up with or shared in the thread, it seemed like an unnatural conclusion to me. It ignored too many other possibilities for my liking and focused on one element, and it struck me as a deliberate effort to push Elohcin's name into the forefront without directly applying pressure. Notice the way LoRab waffles at the end, not offering any definitive thoughts on which side of the fence she's on; "I'm undecided on that question." This made it look like a very opportunistic push against a player who was already on the chopping block entering the day. Eloh's lynch was not a sure thing, but, like I said earlier, she's the closest we've got to a consensus, so it would make sense for the mafia to want to push against her to start the day off. This post suddenly looks way too opportunistic to be genuine to be.

Then I was curious, so I looked back through LoRab's post to trace her own suspicion against Elohcin and it amounts to this post:

LoRab wrote:I have a weak ping from Dom for accusing MP of buttering up (I think Sloonei mentioned this before...someone did...I noticed it, as wel) because of his place on a rainbow list. It struck me as paranoid, and I think Dom's game is more paranoid as baddie than it is as civ.

Elo isn't sitting right. I don't have any good reason for this one, really just gut and tone.

Those are the 2 that keep popping up. There are also a bunch of players that I don't know well enough to know how to read their posts, so there are a lot of question marks on my imaginary spreadsheet.

Prior to today, LoRab had expressed nothing but the vaguest possible "scum read" on Elohcin. This looks like an easy hop-on to an easy bandwagon with no real commitment to me. LoRab had mentioned Eloh in a few posts prior to this, but never in such a way that she's offering a read. So she was essentially silent on Eloh entering today, but then her immediate response to a seemingly unconnected nightkill was to come in waving Elohcin's name around like some great big shady figure that needed to be dealt with. I've not been crazy of her responses to my follow up questions today either but it's late and I don't need to get into that.

So my vote's on LoRab.

DrWilgy wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:It's been a long day for Neil Hartley, and I'm going to have to take the rest of evening off. I wouldn't leave you without a parting tune though, and a few friends of mine you may have heard before will be joining me for something special. Hit it Charlie!

I missed these.

I miss you

Awww you2 baby

Lol. Seriously though, we need to meet up again soon.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:It's been a long day for Neil Hartley, and I'm going to have to take the rest of evening off. I wouldn't leave you without a parting tune though, and a few friends of mine you may have heard before will be joining me for something special. Hit it Charlie!

Sloonei wrote:The thing about Eloh being framed is that I don't think it needs to happen. I may be mistaken, but it seems to me that she is the closest we have to a consensus suspect. I can't imagine the scum team got together last night and said "what we need to do is incriminate Elohcin some more." She was already likely to be lynched soon regardless.
What would make more sense is that they wanted to get out ahead of her lynch and bus her, supposing she is indeed scum. I admit that this theory has influenced my feelings about LoRab today even though we can't be sure of Eloh's alignment yet.

LoRab wrote:

Elohcin wrote: Lorab - b/c (no offence) I always see her playstyle as sneaky and bad and I need to decide if it's real or just my predisposition.

No offense taken. And please look at my posts. I think you will realize that it is just your predisposition.

Sloonei wrote:I'm still most confident about Elohcin, but I also do not like the way LoRab immediately tried to spin SVS's death into something involving Eloh. It seemed like an unnatural response to me. I'd probably put her back near the top of my suspects list again.

It may be unnatural for you, but it was a natural response for me. I looked back at her posts after her death and Elo is one of the very few players she mentioned whose allignment we don't know (or can assume). You're the other one, but she seemed to mention Elo more. That combined with the night kill of Epi night 1, the connection got made in my mind. So I mentioned it. Either she's being framed, and I therefore want to think about what players would do that. Or she's bad and we therefore need to think about who else on a baddie team would make kills like that.

As to all who suspect me, I urge you to look at my posts. I'm civ. I'm trying my best and bringing things up as I see them. I still suspect INH. And I suspect Elo. My vote will likely be for one of those 2.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:For the sake of visual comparison, here are Elohcin's two most recent baddie games:

Transistor

Triskaidekaphobia

One parallel I'd draw from Transistor stems from Day 1 of that game. Zebra was deliberately behaving like a goofball, and she got mislynched for it. She was the standard example of an easy target, and Elohcin took advantage of that. In this game I think there's a similar appearance in her confusion/suspicion of my roleplay. Zebra wasn't actually suspicious at all in that game, and I don't think I was on Day 1 of this one either. I guess what I'm saying is she took Zebra's bait in that game and she may have also taken my bait in this one.

Sloonei wrote:I'm still most confident about Elohcin, but I also do not like the way LoRab immediately tried to spin SVS's death into something involving Eloh. It seemed like an unnatural response to me. I'd probably put her back near the top of my suspects list again.

MacDougall wrote:JJJ for you to be alive after 2 night kills is meaningful. As the most vocal player in the game you would be killed more often than not if there wasn't something to be gained for not killing you.

Assuming you are not Mafia, what potential reasons can you see for you still being alive? In light of both our kills so far being quite unusual choices at face value.