The Syndicate

sprityo wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Well, I don't really have time to be here any longer than a few minutes. I can let LC go for now since I don't feel particularly strongly about a vote in that direction. I also like that sprityo 2.0 was in here before and contributing his thoughts. I can never read MM for shit and I don't have time to dig through an ISO of over 50 posts. I'd rather go after someone less active at the moment.

sprityo wrote:

soup wrote:whoa sorry I am late, going to catch up when I get off work

Also,

Linki: I think he's justified to believe as such, but he's wrong

Is that soup's only post of the game?

insertnamehere wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Holy fuck, INH and I are on exactly the same page right now? What world is this?

https://www.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/e5245e ... a1bacdf0e4

ADDENDUM: We will be on the same page, if MP doesn't decide to balls it up by doing a CFD on MM for who knows what reason.

What is your read on MM?

I also think Elo's d2 vote is lazy, but not willing to lynch her for it.

Reading through Dom's ISO, I'm not inspired to call him a town read. There's really not much there. I'm not a fan of the d2 sig vote.

What do folks think of him?

Well, I don't really have time to be here any longer than a few minutes. I can let LC go for now since I don't feel particularly strongly about a vote in that direction. I also like that sprityo 2.0 was in here before and contributing his thoughts. I can never read MM for shit and I don't have time to dig through an ISO of over 50 posts. I'd rather go after someone less active at the moment.

Long Con wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:.won gnivael m'I .heM .tluser a sa t....

FUCK FUCK FUCK. Thanks for the reminder LC. This is exactly why I didn't want to post much I knew I kept forgetting this damn curse!

Epi, because as a civ, I don't want to vote for another civ. Someone I believe who might be civ (you) seems to think the person my gut is saying is bad is actually civ. You must have a reason and I would like to know why because if I am wrong, I need to know it. My problem here is that I don't hav e reason I just have this overwhelming feeling and I don't like that but I also can't ignore it unless I can get a solid reason one way or another. Your answer frankly pissed me off because it came across condescending. So if you think I'm bad, I don't care. If you think I suck at the game, I also don't care. I do suck at the game. But I'm still here, putting myself through this game after game. Whatever.

In the meantime, I am going to toss my vote on MM because I have a more solid reason for that vote than for an LC vote, despite the fact I feel more strongly about LC. And I would rather be spending Christmas with my husband than staring at my computer. So fuck it, I'm just going to vote and let you all figure this shit out.

Votes metalmarsh89

And you being wrong about me would do some good for my game, otherwise I will never be able to be a baddie against you again. So feel free to continue to think I'm bad.

DF, I apologize for forgetting my curse, I will humbly accept any punishment as a result. Meh. I'm leaving now.

This is much appreciated.

Holy fuck, INH and I are on exactly the same page right now? What world is this?

Long Con wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Spoiler: show

Long Con wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

sig wrote:Why LC?

He is around, he is paying attention at every big discussion, and he is posting his opinions, but not committing to anything. He spent a long time talking about how he didn't know who to vote for on d1, but then at the end he was okay with pushing the nearest wagon around.

That's not accurate, I wasn't "pushing the nearest wagon". You're straining to phrase things in a way that makes me look guilty of something which I am not. I decided to go with a low/non-poster, and sprityo was in the short list of folks that I was considering for that. Then ONE person voted sprityo, and I decided that was the best "low-poster" way to go... rather than pick a different one and split that slice of the vote up. It wasn't a wagon at that point - that's why your analysis is inaccurate. I would go so far as to say "intentionally inaccurate", but I may get back to that when I have more time to devote.

Number 1: Saying I was "pushing the nearest wagon". That makes me sound bad. It is also inaccurate. I was the second vote on a low poster, I had already stated that I wanted to vote a low poster and that I would prefer to pick the same low poster as other like-minded individuals.

Long Con wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:And right after that, he was accusing Glorf of voting for bad reasons:

Long Con wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:And there you go... vindicated again!

Damn, yo, what vindication? What if DDL is a baddie? Your vote would have tied them up, and maybe changed EVERYTHING. It's a scotche early to be proclaiming "vindication".

What if I was bad and you had "randomly" voted for me instead of spirit, LC? Wouldn't that have changed everything either?

Once again, you are intentionally shifting away from the real truth. I didn't accuse Glorf of voting for bad reasons. Glorf didn't vote. AND I didn't accuse him. Not in the conventional Mafia sense. I wasn't stating a suspicion of him, I was telling him that it was not cool or accurate to proclaim "vindication".

Number 2: He said that I was "accusing Glorf of voting for bad reasons". That's completely untrue in every way, and he's using it to try and make me look bad.

Long Con wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I just cared that you had enough commitment to the game to judge people but not enough to make more commited votes than the one you made. That came across as rather hipocritical.

You know what, we're coming back to this as well.

If I had been accusing someone else of not having enough suspicions, or not being involved enough to make an informed vote, THAT would be hypocritical.

Me called Glorfindel out on his "vindicated" claim was a self-contained disagreement with one post. There is NOTHING hypocritical about that. Maybe if I had also made a similar post earlier somehow wherein I claimed to be vindicated in my views, and THEN put Glorf down for the same.... THAT would be hypocritical.

However, none of that happened. Your assessment of "that came across as rather hypocritical" is yet another example of DDL intentionally twisting things to make me look bad.

Number 3: Calling me a hypocrite for invented reasons with, yet again, the intention of making me look bad.

Reason for suspicion: DDL is playing like a baddie who needs to make a case in order to not look bad, but has chosen to contrive and twist reasons because he thinks it will be easy to make people see me as bad. The absolute weakness and dishonesty of his points against me indicate that he is not approaching this from an honest perspective, hence, he is bad.

LC, I'm not inspired. The problem that I have with all of this is that you are the subject of DDL's posts. I'd say it's difficult to fairly assess how genuine a suspicion is when that suspicion is of one's self. I would know; I have a tendency to fall into the OMGUS trap a bit myself when town.

Can you not see a town-compatible reason for DDL's thoughts of you?

I cannot think of a town-compatible reason for him, three separate times, twisting the truth to make me look worse. It cannot be a genuine suspicion, because genuine suspicions are based on what actually happened.

Also... and I don't want to rock the boat or get you in trouble... but aren't you supposed to be posting backward, Spacedaisy?

Perhaps you two are misunderstanding each other? His interpretation of your behavior and how you see your own behavior (or intended your own behavior) could be different. I think that's compatible with the posts I saw from DDL.

I'm not saying I think DDL is particularly town, but I'm not seeing what you're seeing either.

Epignosis wrote:

insertnamehere wrote: If you don't give your opinions, how are we supposed to know whether you are good or bad?

I gave my opinions. I didn't give why I hold those opinions.

Then you cannot rightfully get mad at the thread when other players are unconvinced of your opinions.

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I could get behind an LC vote.

Long Con wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Epi, can I take this to mean you lean civ on LC? Can you give me an idea why because I really want to believe he is, but I'm having a hard time believing it.

What is giving you a hard time?

I couldn't put my finger on it originally, but it's completely a tone thing. His response to weak suspicions read to me like a baddie.

I'm not responding to weak suspicions; I am responding to willful twisting of the truth.

I get the impression that LC's suspicion of DDL is contrived. I don't see any real conviction behind LC's determination of this conclusion.

I suspect DDL far more than I do LC.

Why? I admittedly read through DDL super quickly and without much in-game context.

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Epi, can I take this to mean you lean civ on LC? Can you give me an idea why because I really want to believe he is, but I'm having a hard time believing it.

What is giving you a hard time?

I couldn't put my finger on it originally, but it's completely a tone thing. His response to weak suspicions read to me like a baddie. If civ I would expect something about wanting to know reasons, maybe a little protesting against a gut suspicion. Instead the response I've seen has been almost like don't make any sudden moves and maybe I'll get through it. I don't know. It's so weak a case, I'm finding myself in this weird place where my gut yells bad, but my brain can't bring myself to vote him because I can't see a good reason to. I'm finding it frustrating.

Argh, this game.

Anyway, I'd appreciate your view on LC, since you are wanting to vote for the people voting him I assume you lean civ and I want to know why. I need some reasons to help me sort this out one way or another.

LC: I want to believe it because I feel like I can't figure out the why of my own suspicion. It is exceedingly frustrating to me.

I think my opinion about LC is less important right now than your opinion on 21 people who are not LC. Even if you are torn on LC, there are eight Mafia. Eight.

Not sure about LC? Pick someone else to lynch. This is Day 2. Not Day 12.

One could argue that your post here, Epi, is unnecessarily unhelpful. You could have still said all of this and provided a quick opinion on LC yourself, which Daisy desperately wanted.

Let Daisy make up her own mind on LC. That's where I find out if she's good or bad. If I tell her what I think, then nothing is gained. She already guessed I don't think LC is bad, so why is she asking for more?

That's all well and good, but there are two main problems I have with your sentiment.

1. Townies can only uncover the mafia by interacting with them. Not only would your read potentially provide Daisy (and the rest of the players in this game) with your thoughts on LC, but also it would give all of us something by which to judge you, especially pending some sort of alignment revelation re: LC.

2. (And the point I personally feel more conviction in) Town is as much a team as the mafia factions are, and townies need to work together even more so given that they have no BTSC and are an uninformed minority. Judging by the roles in this game, townies have two mafia factions and a slew of independents to deal with, so I'd say that's of even greater importance than in a typical game. No one can obviously be trusted 100%, but if townies cannot cooperate with one another, then it decreases the likelihood that they can win. I've seen way too many games around these parts torpedoed because every townie behaved in a manner compatible only with the sentiment that he or she is an island and no one else is worth cooperating with and working with. I believe that attitude is a large part of why town loses games. Townies can work effectively together by developing town and mafia reads and questioning areas of disagreement. 13 heads are better than 1.

I could get behind an LC vote.

Long Con wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Epi, can I take this to mean you lean civ on LC? Can you give me an idea why because I really want to believe he is, but I'm having a hard time believing it.

What is giving you a hard time?

I couldn't put my finger on it originally, but it's completely a tone thing. His response to weak suspicions read to me like a baddie.

I'm not responding to weak suspicions; I am responding to willful twisting of the truth.

I get the impression that LC's suspicion of DDL is contrived. I don't see any real conviction behind LC's determination of this conclusion.

Epignosis wrote:Hey Eater of Hats:

Is Spacedaisy good or bad?

I don't know, and after the colossal failure that was my read of her in Lost Again, I'm not jumping at the opportunity to make an assessment of her without an ISO and engaging with her some more. She can clearly trick me better than I thought for me to be able to rely on any meta-based assessment whatsoever.

LC, I'm not inspired. The problem that I have with all of this is that you are the subject of DDL's posts. I'd say it's difficult to fairly assess how genuine a suspicion is when that suspicion is of one's self. I would know; I have a tendency to fall into the OMGUS trap a bit myself when town.

Can you not see a town-compatible reason for DDL's thoughts of you?

Epignosis wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Epi, can I take this to mean you lean civ on LC? Can you give me an idea why because I really want to believe he is, but I'm having a hard time believing it.

What is giving you a hard time?

I couldn't put my finger on it originally, but it's completely a tone thing. His response to weak suspicions read to me like a baddie. If civ I would expect something about wanting to know reasons, maybe a little protesting against a gut suspicion. Instead the response I've seen has been almost like don't make any sudden moves and maybe I'll get through it. I don't know. It's so weak a case, I'm finding myself in this weird place where my gut yells bad, but my brain can't bring myself to vote him because I can't see a good reason to. I'm finding it frustrating.

Argh, this game.

Anyway, I'd appreciate your view on LC, since you are wanting to vote for the people voting him I assume you lean civ and I want to know why. I need some reasons to help me sort this out one way or another.

LC: I want to believe it because I feel like I can't figure out the why of my own suspicion. It is exceedingly frustrating to me.

I think my opinion about LC is less important right now than your opinion on 21 people who are not LC. Even if you are torn on LC, there are eight Mafia. Eight.

Not sure about LC? Pick someone else to lynch. This is Day 2. Not Day 12.

One could argue that your post here, Epi, is unnecessarily unhelpful. You could have still said all of this and provided a quick opinion on LC yourself, which Daisy desperately wanted.

Now despite not liking DDL's early posts, I can't explain why, but I get a genuine vibe from DDL. I don't feel comfortable voting for him at this time. I'll see what LC has to say though.

I also think this set of posts:
Would be a convoluted lie if he were lying about them.

Linki w/ LC: Good timing. I'll look at these after posting.

At face value I don't like DDL's early posts on Snow Dog because they could be nefariously opportunistic. I don't like Snow Dog's "not reading my role" gambit which is annoying and has become frequent recently, but I don't think Snow Dog should be policy lynched by any means. He has a role and an alignment which should be attempted to be discerned.

Long Con wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:OK, I'll be here for a bit longer than I thought. Still won't be too long though. I'll continue digging through ISOs.

Linki w/ sprityo: You. Don't worry about Glorf. Or even just tell me now. Doesn't have to be something you've written already. Show me town spark.

Linki w/ LC: Can you give me a fast and dirty on DDL? I'll look at him next in fact and see what I find.

Fine, gimme five mins and I'll tally up my triple-whammy.

That'd be great, thanks.

Linki w/ sig: That'd be awesome, but it's unlikely I'll still be around. I'll be happy to read it either way though, whether I'm around to read it now or later when I return (sometime tomorrow during N2).

Oh shit, DDL has been posting like I normally would. This will take me a bit to even quick-read.

In fact sprityo, if you want to give me just a few quick town/mafia reads and very quick blurbs on why you have those reads, that'd be great. What about your lynch was illuminating to you? Do you feel anyone unfairly voted for you or not?

OK, I'll be here for a bit longer than I thought. Still won't be too long though. I'll continue digging through ISOs.

Linki w/ sprityo: You. Don't worry about Glorf. Or even just tell me now. Doesn't have to be something you've written already. Show me town spark.

Linki w/ LC: Can you give me a fast and dirty on DDL? I'll look at him next in fact and see what I find.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Posting my intention to vote DDL per Quin's argument and Snow Dog's horrendous defense of himself.

That really surprises me a lot, after the post of yours which I just quoted above... which states that your town read of DDL just got townier.

It wasn't that strong of a town read on DDL.

And yeah, even if DDL and Snow are likely not on a team (my previous thought) and not likely are on a team (where I'm trending to but not 100% sold on), it doesn't mean Snow being mafia makes DDL not mafia. It just makes it more likely.

I'm much more sold on Snow = bad because no defense, not being helpful or scumhunting and the possible connection with DDL than

DDL = bad because of a possible connection with Snow and misrep of LC plus pinging others

But that second one is better than Gloryo = bad cause replacement, Sig = bad cause his case on Gloryo is reaching or LC is bad cause not being committal enough. None of that is even slightly convincing to me.

If most people think DDL + Snow Dog = super unlikely w/w combo, I'll not go that direction. Like I said, struggling with the meta a bit and the argument that this is too obvious of a play for them or too obvious of a solution for Quin is something that I'm having to take everyone's word for as I've never played with any of them before.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Someone convince me whom to vote for. What's out there?

Snow Dog's posts in the last two pages suck.

Epignosis wrote:I don't know that what you just saw about Snow Dog could be considered a defense, but there you are.

Part of my problem with it.

I'm not one for teammate building without a confirmed mafia flip, because in my experience those speculations (made by myself and others) are very often inaccurate. Why are Snow Dog and DDL individually suspicious?

sprityo wrote:It's alright MP I'll replace you if I get lynched two days in a row

:Noble:

Haha, that's the spirit.

I don't want to be replaced. Normally I would when I cannot be totally on top of a game, but I'm going to try to become as engaged as possible. Maybe you can replace someone else though if that does happen.

Why shouldn't you be lynched? Specifically, point me to something in your 2.0 incarnation's batch of posts that should lead me and others to believe you to be town.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I don't like that sprityo 2.0's first handful of posts of any game-related content are all a combination of salt over his 1.0 self dying and discussing his former self rather than attempting to generate reads on anyone. I'd say that's a bad look.

And continued posts on the matter, though he does eventually get around to some other posting... it's underwhelming though.

Overall I'd say my read is a sprityo 2.0 (slight mafia). I don't feel remotely inspired to call him town, but I don't feel compelled to call him a good lead for a mafia member either. Nonetheless, as much as it sucks to be lynched right off the bat and lynched immediately again, I don't want to let that keep me from considering a potential legitimate lead, so I could vote for him if I don't find anything better.

I don't like that sprityo 2.0's first handful of posts of any game-related content are all a combination of salt over his 1.0 self dying and discussing his former self rather than attempting to generate reads on anyone. I'd say that's a bad look.

Must have been Glorf. Disregard.

Of course, I had to fiirst pick the guy that was lynched and then replaced back in.

Who did sprityo replace?

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Why should I trust you, Epi? What are your current suspects and townreads and why?

You should never trust me except for when you should.

If you read the thread, you'll find my positions on many people.

That's the most convincing thing I've ever heard.

That's fair enough, and I have every intention of reading the thread in due time, but I don't have the time to read 1,000 posts properly, absorb the information, and make reads in a quick enough fashion to cast an informed d2 vote, so I'm trying my best by conversing with folks over the next 15 minutes or so and then casting as informed of a vote as I can.

So inform me quickly. Where are you casting your vote and why? Where should I consider casting my vote? Where shouldn't I?

Le sigh.

Epignosis wrote:The only person with more than one vote I'm even entertaining voting for right now is sprityo. I am considering a vote for Quin, or any of the four people voting sig or Long Con.

I understand the frustration. I realize it's ironic. I'm trying to do what I can with what time I have.

Should I quickly glance at their ISOs? Maybe I should. I think I'll do that and let you know what I see from an uneducated perspective.

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Why should I trust you, Epi? What are your current suspects and townreads and why?

You should never trust me except for when you should.

If you read the thread, you'll find my positions on many people.

That's the most convincing thing I've ever heard.

That's fair enough, and I have every intention of reading the thread in due time, but I don't have the time to read 1,000 posts properly, absorb the information, and make reads in a quick enough fashion to cast an informed d2 vote, so I'm trying my best by conversing with folks over the next 15 minutes or so and then casting as informed of a vote as I can.

So inform me quickly. Where are you casting your vote and why? Where should I consider casting my vote? Where shouldn't I?

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:What's the case against Snow Dog?

People don't like that he's taking the piss (which here means making jokes at the expense of other) and Quin thinks DDL and Snow Dog are teammates on the flimsiest of evidence.

I'm lost regarding the first half.

What do you think of Quin?

insertnamehere wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Someone convince me whom to vote for. What's out there?

Vote anyone but DDL.

I dislike LC's switcheroo on him, and I'm gonna call it an OMGUS, despite Con's claims to the contrary.

I cannot believe that JoH honestly thinks lynching DDL will somehow hurt Snow Dog, for some reason?

I see no logic in that.

So you're townreading DDL, but otherwise don't have any strong feelings on anyone? Correct me if I'm wrong. What do you think of LC and JoH re: alignment?

sig wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:So I have around 1,000 posts to read and no motivation to read them. What to do...

You of all people should be ashamed to even post this.

Why? I've been preoccupied, and I wasn't going to spend my only week all year spending time with my family and friends in person playing mafia.

I can't help that the deadline ends on Christmas evening. I'll be properly engaged going forward, but this unfortunate timing makes another cycle wherein I don't have the time or motivation to read to make any semblance of an informed decision.

lol, this is funny and very ironic. :P

Is Snow Dog really drunk or faking it?

@Quin, Dom voted for me for no good reason and voting for me is mean. :shrug2

linki: Nvm, I'm confusing alignment claiming with role claiming.

I can't post in supatown MP mode all the time even if I'd like to, and this game started at a bad time. I'm resigned to doing what I can with the limited time that I have. Hopefully I can read during N2 and D3.

Why would Snow Dog fake being drunk?

What's your read of Dom?

Why should I trust you, Epi? What are your current suspects and townreads and why?

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:So I have around 1,000 posts to read and no motivation to read them. What to do...

You of all people should be ashamed to even post this.

Why? I've been preoccupied, and I wasn't going to spend my only week all year spending time with my family and friends in person playing mafia.

I can't help that the deadline ends on Christmas evening. I'll be properly engaged going forward, but this unfortunate timing makes another cycle wherein I don't have the time or motivation to read to make any semblance of an informed decision.

My meaning is that you have no room to complain about 1,000 posts.

I'm not complaining.

What's the case against Snow Dog?

sig wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Suuuuuper unconvinced by Snow's defense.

"Your accusation is bullshit cause it's not true and btw, I'm not gonna defend myself."

Lol okay.

Are we even allowed to alignment claim?

Nope

Since when is alignment claiming not allowed? Pretty sure people say "I'm town" all the time in games around here.

Role claiming is what's typically disallowed.

Ignore me though if there's something I'm missing due to not having read the thread yet.

Someone convince me whom to vote for. What's out there?

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:So I have around 1,000 posts to read and no motivation to read them. What to do...

You of all people should be ashamed to even post this.

Why? I've been preoccupied, and I wasn't going to spend my only week all year spending time with my family and friends in person playing mafia.

I can't help that the deadline ends on Christmas evening. I'll be properly engaged going forward, but this unfortunate timing makes another cycle wherein I don't have the time or motivation to read to make any semblance of an informed decision.

So I have around 1,000 posts to read and no motivation to read them. What to do...

It's still going to be tough for me to find proper time for this game today, but I'll try my best. The 24 hour extension was much appreciated. My participation should increase immensely starting the 26th.

I wil be able to participate regularly in this game starting later today and/or tomorrow.

I'm sorry to the host and you all; I just do not have any time for this game until I'm back in San Antonio. I don't want to replace out though because that will be Saturday.
Voting myself for now because I don't want to be punished for missing it and I have not read anything.

Hey all! Just checking in to say yay game! And to alert you all that my activity is going to be very limited for the next week or so. I flew into Cincinnati this past Thursday and I'm here until Christmas Eve visiting my family and friends, and I'm not sure I'll be able to make another trip for a long while, so RL is taking super priority right now.

I'll catch up and phone post stuff when I can though.