The Syndicate

Scotty could be mafia; nonetheless, I think DrWilgy is a better bet, especially since Scotty has been willing to engage in active hunting and conversation.

I walk away for an hour and the thread descends into madness.

Golden, why do you post so much? :P This freaking analysis is taking too much time.

I want to do GTH reads. I wonder when would be the best time for that. Thoughts, folks?

Hey, Wilgy. Let's chat!

Scotty wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
That all makes sense to me, thanks Scotty.

How much of the thread's history is still a question mark to you? Is there anything any of us can help summarize or clarify?

Do you feel comfortable throwing out a reads list yet?
Hah- most of it. I've been through bits and pieces. Sig complaining about only cherry picking quotes isn't nefarious, but in relation to his interactions with and about IAWY, so I'm most definitely not comprehensive with him of anyone else for that matter.

MM is a question mark for me. I feel like he has done helpful problem solving of the matrices and voting tallies, but beyond that I'm unsure about what makes him civ.

Noted. You have a fresh perspective of the thread, which is awesome so I'm curious to hear more of your thoughts, but I know how difficult it is to replace into a game, especially at this stage and with this level of activity, so if you ever need context for anything, just ask and I'm sure one of us can point you in the right direction of where you should read back.

I will admit that I'm feeling waffly on MM myself. I've had him firmly as a town read once he's started participating, but yeah. I hate this stage of the game, especially with 3 scum remaining; I feel like I can't feel strongly about anyone at this point. I'm likely going to comb through some ISOs once I finish these analyses.

There's just not enough time. I wish I got paid to do this stuff.

Scotty wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Golden wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:We should hammer sig tomorrow.
We should not hammer sig tomorrow. Anyone who says we should is probably scum. If you want dig dead do it yourself.

My guess is two scum are on dig wagon, so even one single extra town vote would enable the hammer. No one fall for this, please!
Who are the scum? ika and zebra? ika and Scotty? Scotty and zebra? Mind ranking those possibilities?
Would both scum be on the sig lynch, or would they vote elsewhere? Seems risky to me to be unified in that division.

You mentioned recently maybe doing another rainbow list- I wouldn't mind that.

@MP and Golden- what about Soneji screams civ to you? I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, but I don't think anyone has enlightened me.

Well, we have 3 scum remaining, so it's possible 2 of them could unify, and considering that fact, the scum may be more willing to take risks at this stage due to approaching LYLO if we mislynch today.

I did give a rainbow list earlier in the Day, but I need to give another one after finishing these analyses, so I promise I'll do that before the end of Day 4.

I need to ISO Soneji again. I did near the beginning of Day 2 and he seemed legitimately interested in hunting; he entered the thread aggressive, willing to question, and brought up some good points (IMO). Since then, he's seemed still legit to me, but I will admit that he's one of the few players that has slipped off of my radar and I haven't been analyzing his behavior to near the degree I should be. As such, I need to look at him again, because it's possible I could be overlooking a potential mafia lead with him. So don't take my read of him as golden, but in the course of playing this game I've yet to seen anything particularly alarming from him.

Dizzy suspected him though; I need to look at that again. After these analyses, perhaps.

What do you think of him, succinctly?

Scotty wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Scotty wrote:Ok, I'm sold on a Wilgy lynch.

I jumped in the game trying to solve a puzzle while missing 50% of the puzzle. I might be tunneling on sig a bit. I do that.

I'll err on the side of falling back on those that have been in the game so far and have more garnered info.

If what you say is true about this matrix, Golden, you are correct that Wilgy cannot be checking anyone if he is good. And I see no reason for a civ to be absolutely sure Soneji is bad and come out with that kind of info.
What convinced you of this? What did you think of my colored response to your observations re: sig? What points in particular did you find worthwhile, if any?
Well I had trepidation coming in from you and Soneji based on my thoughts about you bussing. However, Golden seems like a good chap, and you single handedly started that case on IAWY, so it's a good sign you're good. Golden trusts you, and both of you back up Soneji.

I actually found your responses to my reads on sig fair. Relying on meta is not necessarily bad, and looking at someone through the lens of culture clash is not damning in and of itself.

What really convinced me of Wilgy, as I said, is that I think he is fabricating this red peek thing.

That all makes sense to me, thanks Scotty.

How much of the thread's history is still a question mark to you? Is there anything any of us can help summarize or clarify?

Do you feel comfortable throwing out a reads list yet?

Going to continue my Golden/IAWY interaction analysis now because homework sucks.

Scotty wrote:2 more til hammer. Since we don't want that, I'd suggest anyone planning on voting Wilgy this phase to say so, but not vote yet. I'm sure there's still more to talk about.

There's always more to analyze and talk about.

Scotty wrote:Ok, I'm sold on a Wilgy lynch.

I jumped in the game trying to solve a puzzle while missing 50% of the puzzle. I might be tunneling on sig a bit. I do that.

I'll err on the side of falling back on those that have been in the game so far and have more garnered info.

If what you say is true about this matrix, Golden, you are correct that Wilgy cannot be checking anyone if he is good. And I see no reason for a civ to be absolutely sure Soneji is bad and come out with that kind of info.

What convinced you of this? What did you think of my colored response to your observations re: sig? What points in particular did you find worthwhile, if any?

Golden wrote:Also

a2thezebra wrote:I recommend a sig, Soneji, or Golden lynch. Anything else would be very bad news for town.
This would literally only be true if you had called out the entire scum team, which you haven't. I guess there is at least a little doubt in my mind on sig and soneji (as opposed to no doubt with MP) but I'd have them both at at least moderate town. I find it difficult to understand how we could see the game so entirely and fundemantally differently from start to finish

There's been lots of fishy things with you, the only strong stands you seem to take in this game are ones that seem fundamentally lacking in basis. Things like not lynching low posters (would make sense if Frog had called out 2 or 3 of your team successfully).

Things like you saying 'don't lynch IAWY or Wilgy'

You've had a style in this game that I am beginning to think is deliberately gaming wifom - "I would never be so overt if they were my teammates" kind of wifom. And I don't blame you if this is true, because it is exactly the kind of wifom that could work very well. I even do have doubts right now that you and wilgy are a team. There is a part of me that thinks you are using wilgy as a crutch to make yourself look good after his flip. But, I feel wilgy is most likely to be bad full stop. Look, even sig seems more loathe to lynch him than you... so even if SIG is bad, I'd be pegging wilgy as his teammate. Wilgy looks to me to be bad no matter what combination of people are bad, and thats the kind of thing I'm looking for.

Your willingness to die instead of MP would make sense if you are mafia, too. Taking MP down behind you, and all that. It would be smart.

A lot of your actions throughout the game, as genuine and town aligned as they seemed to me at the time, all feel like they also fit well in a world where you are scum.

I agree that the prospect of a Wilgy flip feels like the IAWY flip at this point; I think he's our best bet at mafia (I feel most confident in him being bad of all the players left) and I think his flip would be informative as to others' alignments.

Golden wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:We should hammer sig tomorrow.
We should not hammer sig tomorrow. Anyone who says we should is probably scum. If you want dig dead do it yourself.

My guess is two scum are on dig wagon, so even one single extra town vote would enable the hammer. No one fall for this, please!

Who are the scum? ika and zebra? ika and Scotty? Scotty and zebra? Mind ranking those possibilities?

zebra, if you're town, we really need your town spark. Right now I feel like you're throwing out blanket one-liners and we need people actively trying to solve the game with each other. I don't understand where you're coming from, but if I'm wrong about any or all of my suspicions and you're right about yours, I need you to help me understand your mindset.

I feel like ika and Wilgy aren't doing either of these things either, and although zebra's teammate interaction actually looked worse than Wilgy, I'd rather lynch Wilgy because if we get to endgame with any of these folks, I don't know what we're going to do. It's like what JJJ said about Vompatti in Economics. If any of you all are town, I understand you have your suspicions and you should rightfully pursue them, but please try to explain your thought process to others, because as it stands none of the rest of the players in the game can get a handle on you, which could easily lose the game for us.

DrWilgy wrote:Marmot!! I tried but it wouldn't let me post emoji's depicting licky licky squirt squirt followed by the word marmot!

What the heck...

Spoiler: show

This post is full of win, MM. Especially the om nom nom eating of rope.

And regarding the last point, yeah, if someone hammers during the course of this weekend, then...

Golden wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Conclusion

I find a2thezebra's behavior with respect to Inawordyes firmly teammate compatible and, furthermore, potentially teammate indicative.

What do you think?
I agree. It's a great analysis.

You didn't come to any different conclusions?

Inevitably it's going to affect my read of zebra on my new rainbow, unless she can adequately explain away all of my concerns.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:For anyone who cares about meta, here's a couple links of sig getting lynched in previous games.

Bullets over Broadway - sig was scum: More flails in these posts. More CAPS. Not unlike what I see in this game thread.

Talking Heads - sig was civ: More civility, more reason. I was seeing this at times today, but sig's recent posts don't match this behavior at all.
Can you look at Turf Wars? He was civilian there as well and consistently got heat.
Yes, I can definitely look at Turf WArs, exepct that all the thereads are hiddne, so I can't look at all of them.

You should be able to view everything.

The main game thread contains all phases of the game.

And if you actually care about the Turf Wars Prison Yard (I assumed you'd only use the main game thread for analysis, but whatever floats your boat), the entire subforum full of threads is available for viewing as well.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I've started the Golden/IAWY interaction, but I'm really too tired to finish it tonight. I'll have to continue sometime tomorrow after I work on various things. Someone else can feel free to conduct their own analysis and/or comment on mine as well. That'd be great.

It's bed time. Good night, thread.
Get the fuck back her! IT's drufnk mafia tiem!

WHAT?! I missed drunk mafia time? Dammit!

What about tonight?

DrWilgy wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:If it makes you feel better bout me, IAWY voted me on several occasions. Wasn't paying too much attention to how long it lasted though.

Surprised that we haven't lynched Ji-San yet.
I'm not sure how that makes me feel about you.

It might make me feel better about you if you please explain your reads. Why is Soneji worth lynching?
RED check

...

Procrastination is fun.

I've started the Golden/IAWY interaction, but I'm really too tired to finish it tonight. I'll have to continue sometime tomorrow after I work on various things. Someone else can feel free to conduct their own analysis and/or comment on mine as well. That'd be great.

It's bed time. Good night, thread.

DrWilgy wrote:If it makes you feel better bout me, IAWY voted me on several occasions. Wasn't paying too much attention to how long it lasted though.

Surprised that we haven't lynched Ji-San yet.

I'm not sure how that makes me feel about you.

It might make me feel better about you if you please explain your reads. Why is Soneji worth lynching?

...Except now I realize that Golden is next alphabetically, lessening my motivation.

both wagons*. It's getting late. I'm still going to continue onward though.

To add: Note that DrWilgy voted for MM (4th of 4) on d1 and voted for Golden on d2. He completely avoided either IAWY wagon.

DRWILGY / INAWORDYES

Day 1

Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

Day 2

Spoiler: show

This is the only time Wilgy interacted with IAWY. IAWY had voted Wilgy and prodded him for reads, for which Wilgy provided Golden as a mafia read (unexplained) and said Sloonei, MM, and I might be on his team.

Later Mentions

Spoiler: show

I added this "Later Mentions" section because Wilgy has very little IAWY-specific content. Here he recently said (d4, in fact) said that Golden or I "probably bussed IAWY" but gives no accompanying explanation.

Summary

- Very little IAWY-specific content. He never gave any opinion of IAWY all game and, even when voted for by IAWY, made no attempt to solve a read regarding him.

Conclusion

I find DrWilgy's behavior with respect to Inawordyes firmly teammate compatible. It could be teammate indicative, but there's nothing really here, so...

What do you think?

A2THEZEBRA / INAWORDYES

Day 1

Spoiler: show

zebra expresses interest in my IAWY ISO when I mention I found him scummy, adding in a subsequent post that she has found his behavior wacky and non-alignment-indicative.

Spoiler: show

Having read my ISO, zebra says she agrees with very little and sees it as unorthodox playstyle.

Spoiler: show

In response to my question, zebra says IAWY's constant meta cover is likely nervousness + being new to the Syndicate + probably being suspected for meta-reasons a lot. From my perspective, these are very detailed, specific defenses of him, especially for having never interacted with him before this game. Consequently, I find it suspicious that she felt the desire to disclaim all of that interpretation with the statement that she she's not sure about him.

Spoiler: show

a2thezebra wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:I'm not sure where you got that "unlike when I'm scum I will not make things up".I totally make shit up when I'm town, all the time. Where did I say or even imply otherwise? I also don't know where you got "I'm totes town being heroic." Granted, my self-vote was not a breakdown or anything, but I wouldn't call it heroic either. I figured that my mislynch was inevitable so I might as well get it over with and save MP in the process who I strongly believe is town. It's not that complicated and it's certainly not heroic. I also find it very hard to believe that you legitimately take issue with me having no scum reads simply because I'm constantly having disagreements with people. Are you seriously implying that I should read people as scummy just for disagreeing with them? For shame. I also find it laughable that you ask me to vote for another lurker when I've made it abundantly clear that I am against going for lurkers in general, not just because I was among them at the time of Frog's crusade.

Both sig and Golden have used the "you should know better" shtick before on me specifically, so I think it's fair. Sorry if it irks you though.
I got that from you. I'm talking specifically about you saying you would make up scum reads if you were scum:

a2thezebra wrote:I don't have them, and unlike when I'm bad I'm not going to fake having them just to please everyone into not suspecting me.

I gave you five civvie reads, that's all I have. You should know better because your reasons for suspecting me are based on things that you've seen me do before as town more than once.
I wasn't saying that to imply that I never make anything up when I'm good, only that for this particular game I see no reason to lie about having reads that I don't have.

It is whiteknighting MP. Knights, heros. That is my take on it. And not an unreasonable one at all.

At the time he was the leading lynch and I had a very strong town read of him. You're damn right it is whiteknighting him.

How was it inevitable so many ours before end of day with votes being so close. Like really?

I'm not referring to the day, I'm referring to the game. I still think my lynch is inevitable, even with more and more town-reading me. With this many newcomers such as yourself that are unaccustomed to my theatrics, I'm bound to get lynched at some point.

No, I'm not implying that. I'm finding it really hard to believe that you have no scum reads enough to vote someone else than yourself when your discussion with Frog and Golden i.e reads as if you are at least suspecting them a bit.

I did not suspect either Frog and Golden. I was initially pinged my Frog, but I needed time to meditate on him to conclude whether I saw him as baddie-motivated, and I concluded that he was not. Where in my discussion with either of them did you get the idea that I was suspecting them?

Then I'm very interested to hear why you voted MM and considered voting INAWORD. No.
I voted for MM because I suspected MM for his Sloonei vote. I don't think I have yet to consider voting for IAWY apart from the scenario where I vote for him to save someone I am more confident about.

Spoiler: show

All of these posts are regarding Silverwolf's supposed inconsistency (zebra's word) with respect to her thoughts regarding Inawordyes.

Spoiler: show

Here zebra says that the IAWY wagon is suspicious and, assuming the "him" is IAWY, she specifies that IAWY has been risen from a slight to moderate town read, I presume due to the nature of the wagon forming. However, I need clarification from zebra regarding this post and whether my interpretation is correct.

Spoiler: show

In response to Epi, zebra echoes the sentiment that IAWY shouldn't have the (at the time) four-vote wagon on him.

Spoiler: show

zebra notes that, although she is mafia reading MM and town reading IAWY, she does not feel inclined to vote for MM to save IAWY. But I think that's suspicious, given the other lengths to which zebra had resisted IAWY's lynch; it shows a lack to act on her own assessment of IAWY.

Day 2

Spoiler: show

This is zebra's only statement regarding IAWY for all of d2.

Summary

- zebra never interacted with IAWY directly. I asked a question earlier regarding whether mafia tend to avoid contact with their teammates or interact with them, but I don't think anyone has addressed it, so I'll at least express my opinion on the matter here since it's relevant. Especially early in games, I've found that scum are more often to avoid interacting directly with each other as much as possible, although inevitably it depends on the players and circumstances of the game. I realize IAWY was not active for most of d1, but I think this is still a notable observation. It'll be potentially more notable if most or all of the other players in the game interacted with IAWY at least on some basis.

- zebra never mentioned any opinion of IAWY until prompted by my d1 ISO of him. When I mentioned he seemed suspicious while conducting my ISO, she was quick to say she found nothing alignment indicative of his behavior. In response to my ISO, she doubled down on that stance.

- Although having very specific reasons for not suspecting IAWY, largely attributing his behavior to meta and playstyle, zebra did disclaim on one occasion that she could be wrong.

- Although zebra appeared to name IAWY a moderate town read and fought against his lynch rather fervently, and called MM a mafia read, she was not willing to save IAWY by voting MM on Day 1.

- zebra's only contribution re: IAWY on Day 2 was to strongly assert that he should not be lynched.

Conclusion

I find a2thezebra's behavior with respect to Inawordyes firmly teammate compatible and, furthermore, potentially teammate indicative.

What do you think?

Teammate analysis time.

But first, I need a bit of a break to spend time with the wife. Then I'll start the long-awaited IAWY teammate analyses. See you all in a bit.

Day 4: Rainbow List
(#1 d4, #6 overall)

Strong Town:
N/A

Moderate Town:
Golden
Soneji

Slight Town:
Metalmarsh89
sig
a2thezebra

Slight Mafia:
Scotty (Psittacitform)
ika

Moderate Mafia:
DrWilgy

Strong Mafia:
N/A

Subject to change. Next up: the long-awaited IAWY teammate analyses.

Golden wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Golden wrote:I think sig, MP, soneji and I are town

Two more of you are town, out of MM, zebra, wilgy, scotty and ika. MM is the one I think is most likely to be town in that set, which leaves 3/4 of zebra, wilgy, scotty and ika.

No, this is not me hinting at being a cop with peeks.
This is essentially a rainbow list, but can you rainbowify this for me? Or at least tell me how you currently rank those non-town reads and why?
Mm still slight town
Scotty and ika slight mafia
Zebra moderate mafia
Wilgy strong mafia

Good to know, thanks. I'm going to work on and then throw out a rainbow next.

Golden wrote:And Wilgy and zebra both put down the hammer. And zebra has defended Wilgy on meta reasons.

Like, these two, to me... I just can't ignore them. I'd really like to nail one today and, if they are scum, take the other with town vig.

Golden wrote:I will certainly be opposing a sig vote. I don't like the names on his lynch chain as it stands. Ika, scotty, zebra...

I'm absolutely with you here.

VOTE DRWILGY

Golden wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:I won't be around at EoD again. Good luck everyone, and please don't lynch IAWY or DrWilgy.
And then there is this from EoD2.

Ugh, the WIFOM.

Golden wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Marco wrote:
Golden wrote:I really want Marco and Polo to play games together.
I'm assuming Polo is a Syndicate regular?

DrWilgy wrote:Nah bruh, U

VOTE MATT
If Sloonei flips town, Wilgy is probably scum. This seems like a very opportunistic vote, especially in light of how "offhand" Wilgy is about the game.
Obviously WIFOM, but this is something to note now that Marco is dead.
Yeah, I mean, jst look at those hammer votes. Wilgy had been claiming I was bad and MP was bad all along, but suddenly he is following us into a vote?

It's like Vomps levels of 'fuck u' in how much he is being obvi-scum. He could basically have scum claimed by now. It's great wifom, but really...

This is a good point.

I'd much rather lynch Wilgy today than sig.

Golden wrote:I think sig, MP, soneji and I are town

Two more of you are town, out of MM, zebra, wilgy, scotty and ika. MM is the one I think is most likely to be town in that set, which leaves 3/4 of zebra, wilgy, scotty and ika.

No, this is not me hinting at being a cop with peeks.

This is essentially a rainbow list, but can you rainbowify this for me? Or at least tell me how you currently rank those non-town reads and why?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:For anyone who cares about meta, here's a couple links of sig getting lynched in previous games.

Bullets over Broadway - sig was scum: More flails in these posts. More CAPS. Not unlike what I see in this game thread.

Talking Heads - sig was civ: More civility, more reason. I was seeing this at times today, but sig's recent posts don't match this behavior at all.

Can you look at Turf Wars? He was civilian there as well and consistently got heat.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
sig wrote:
Soneji wrote:I am pretty sure town tracker is possible, if we are in set-up C which has both town vig and tracker in it.
But, there wasn't a vig kill night 1 or 3, plus I don't see the mafia killing Marco/Silver so I'm thinking we had a 1 shot mafia kill. So unless the mafia jailkeeper picked the vig day 1 and 3 yet didn't kill them yet then that would be weird.

Also notice she doesn't answer my question she just says I did it.
I don't understand why you would ask zebra who made the kill last night if you are certain that it was a normal mafia kill.

At this point, I'm happy to vote sig, but I'll wait until later in the day phase.

Why?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm going to UNVOTE before some fool (or scum) decides to come in and hammer vote at a bad time.

I'd love to policy lynch zebra, but I don't know if that's our best course of action.

What's your current read of zebra with respect to alignment?

ika wrote:
sig wrote:VOTE ZEBRA

There is no good civ reason to encourage a hammer after being the hammer which lynched a civ and pushed us to lynch or loose.

ONCE AGAIN THIS IS LYNCH OR LOOSE!

Zebra is trying to force a hammer in an attempt to win no civ should be advocating for a hammer this early into a phase especially WITHOUT A CASE
We have shown cases and you discretion them.

Not only that but the argument one needs a case is fallious. And your biggest thing is it's not lynch or lose its

3v6 so even if you are a mislynh (and I doubt it) it would be 3v4 after scum nk. And yes I'm accounting the town vig, all he needs to do is not shoot

Who's we?

sig wrote:VOTE ZEBRA

There is no good civ reason to encourage a hammer after being the hammer which lynched a civ and pushed us to lynch or loose.

ONCE AGAIN THIS IS LYNCH OR LOOSE!

Zebra is trying to force a hammer in an attempt to win no civ should be advocating for a hammer this early into a phase especially WITHOUT A CASE

GTH this emotion reads town to me.

I don't think we should be voting for sig. I think he dug himself a hole for defending IAWY and he's being scapegoated. I don't feel particularly good about ika or Scotty. I still think zebra is town but I'm slight town reading her at this point. Again, before analysis.

Soneji wrote:You do realize we are not in a set-up that has a cop, right Wilgy? You are either mafia or purposely trying to sabotage town with this kind of idiocy.

QFT

sig wrote:Zebra is making no sense and now out of nowhere suspecting me since I said she could be mafia? I also dislike what I see her hinting at since it is impossibly. I think we just saw a TMI scum chat slip from her.

@Ika read over my responses to your case on my slip, then tell me you still think it is the case espacilly considering the fact I'm most likely right about the world we are in.

What was this?

Golden wrote:Well, if nothing else, I learned a valuable lesson yesterday..

Pay attention to the hammer rule. I went to sleep. I woke up and sloonei was gone. I hadn't even considered that, I was just going to use the time I had yesterday to test some other people and figure out where I wanted my vote to end.

It might have ended up on Sloonei anyway, but I don't like that it became so easy. I'd have probably unvoted while I was asleep if I'd thought that through. Valuable experience.

VOTE DRWILGY

Right now I think Wigly and zebra might be two of the three remaining. My read on zebra has shifted. I didn't like her push on day 2 against IAWY votes, its what prompted me to shift my vote to IAWY to make it 4 vs 2.

RIP Marco. Sorry to see you go.

I'm with you there; I wish I hadn't voted for Moonei now, but I felt pretty good about it, and certainly didn't anticipate a hammer. Oh well.

I could see an incredibly brazen zebra defending one or both of her teammates (in this case, it'd have to be Wilgy and IAWY), but I need to look at her IAWY-relevant content again.

a2thezebra wrote:
sig wrote:@Zebra do you think the night kill was by the vig or by the mafia
You did it.

Didn't you say this about ika before? I'd have to look again, but I'm being lazy and want to engage you.

ika wrote:
sig wrote:Well you haven't even built a bad case, you've literally done nothing besides argue with Golden and MP about stupid stuff.
I have made my case like day 2 or 3 about your slip. nobody seems to care

Not true, many have commented on it.

a2thezebra wrote:It is no concern of yours.

zebra, I've been town reading you and I don't want to tell you how to play, but too many players this game are taking this kind of attitude to the game and it could cause town's detriment.

Every player's content (opinions, votes, etc.) is the concern of every other.

ika, Wilgy, and to some degree recently now you have all been difficult to assess and work with due to withholding information that helps explain your thought process as well as for closed-mindedness.

I do not want to lose this game because of closed-mindedness or a lack of willingness to solve via POE.

sig wrote:
Soneji wrote:Sig what CFD in Turf Wars are you talking about? The one on day 2 lynched a mafia member, not a civ.
Yes we did, however Epi who was also a mafia member could've gotten lynched.
Even though the CFD worked out I was still agaisnt it, and ended up being civ even though people tried to lynch me for being agaisnt it. This is the same sort of thing Scotty is trying to do. I'm agaisnt CFDs espacilly when first I'm not in control of them and second if I think they are being directed away from a mafia member. Which I believed was the case. IN FACT I was right. In this game IWAY was almost CFDs then another CFD started on Frog who flipped civ. So a CFD was done to save a mafia member in the end. I still believe both IWAY and MM are mafia members. Which is why neither voted for the other.

Also looking back IWAY voted for Soneji it could've been a distancing vote, but right now I don't think it was.

Why?

Scotty, thanks for looking at this sig/IAWY analysis. I've been wanting to perform teammate analysis since IAWY flipped, but my schedule's been a problem, then the hammer, and yeah. I'm going to get to it tonight no matter what, at least starting it, I'm telling myself. I'll review, analyze, then make comments and color them appropriately:

Spoiler: show

Scotty wrote:Looking through sig's ISO in relation to IAWY and wow, are there some gaps. 3 full pages of posts without him even mentioning IAWY. His main town lean starts early, with a mention of IAWY having a "towny entrance" and that's it for a while.

Someone pressures sig on his lack of completeness on ISOs and he divulges more thoughts on him:
I think inaword voted for Sonjie as a poke/RVS and hasn't he been gone since? I really don't see how this is enough to start a CFD day 1
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Soft defense for lack of posting.

A CFD comes up on Day 2 for him:

I was agaisnt the CFD last game and look what that got me, so I need to think it over a bit. However, as of right now I'm agaisnt it. He doesn't really seem scummy at all. What is the case on him?

After reading him over I'm just seeing a culture clash.
It's like he is actually thinking about it but he's not at all because he's my scummy "at all". Well that's bullsuit, because MP had posted an eloquent ISO containing points besides just a "culture clash" 5 pages before. I know that sig had to have noticed it, because he references MP's points in this post:
sig wrote:
ika wrote:
sig wrote:I was agaisnt the CFD last game and look what that got me, so I need to think it over a bit. However, as of right now I'm agaisnt it. He doesn't really seem scummy at all. What is the case on him?

After reading him over I'm just seeing a culture clash.
hes lurking and sevral who know him say thats scum MO?

and not only that, but rememebr last game as you mentioned it was on scum?
Yes however, it is rare for a CFD to hit scum, and funny you should mention last game sine the CFD in the long run lead to towns defeat. We'd have been better without the CFD that game.

Didn't MP even admit in his case it could be a cultural thing? If so I'm not sure I'm trusting MP right now. I've also got you Ika as a scum lean so I'm really not happy with it atm.

Also he has already said he isn't playing his MU game, just like I'm not playing the same I do on TS all the time. So none of these people has seen his home site play. And I know for a fact I will switch my game play/meta based on the site I'm on.
Way to throw it back on MP there, sig.
This is some hefty defending relating IAWY's playstyle to that of his own. Why defend someone so vehemently on lack of posting? I would think everyone would want more content as opposed to less content.

On his stance of a CFD:
Golden every single time A CFD has happened to me it has hurt town except for last game. Usually it is done by mafia or paranoid town. Also I'd argue the CFD didn't help since everyone was then to focused on the CFD people and tunneled on them avoiding the mafia who weren't for the most part agaisnt the wagon.
He sets it up so that if the CFD happens and IAWY is lynched, he's putting blame on those on the CFD. Like, what?

@MP I think you raise some good points, but I still believe it is cultural and I really really dislike Ika saying ppl who have played with him think he is mafia, when he specifically said he wasn't playing his MU meta. I mean I know I change my meta from here to MU, in fact I'm playing more like I would on my home site right now. So I don't like the meta case agaisnt him, espacilly with Ika pushing it. SO I call bullshit on the meta bad thing since while he is playing different then MU nobody here knows his home site meta. It seems opportunistic to do a meta push when so few people actually know his meta. That is the main reason why I don't like his wagon. However, I'd like to see more content from him I'd say if he doesn't improve we lynch him tomorrow.
So after continued pushing against the meta argument, he mentions as an aside one of MP's original points: lack of content is not looking good for him. As if dog just came to that conclusion on his own.

sig wrote:I've got my eye on Zebra, her switch reminds me of what Epi did in Turf war with the CFD. He didn't oppose it, but he wasn't agaisnt it.

I can't help, but think that I'm once again defending an inactive scum who is being CFD, however I'm not confident he is mafia and hate CFD espacilly onto lurkers who aren't around.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
sig wrote:So how about a counterwagon onto Soneji? Now that he has made a less then inspiring entrance.
Why?

You hate CFD's why should we lynch Soneji at this moment?

Linki: why don't you like them?
MM with the great point of the day!

Guys, I could keep going, but sig looks bad bad bad

All, what do you think of this point? In *your* experience, are teammates most likely to avoid discussing each other?

This is within meta and believable, in my view.

This was a point I made against Sloonei because it's something I see mafia say about their teammates all the time in an attempt to seem unaware of the suspicion.

This is the exact same point that zebra made in defense of IAWY.

I agree that this behavior is suspicious.

IAWY defended himself quite thoroughly with meta, which again, both sig and zebra (from my recollection, and based on what you pulled here with sig). I can't recall if anyone else agreed with that; from what I recall, everyone else found it suspicious. I'll find out in further analysis.

I'll do my own analysis of him, but this was a good start, thanks Scotty.

However, I'm not convinced, especially since town sig brings suspicion upon himself in defending the wrong people or saying something seemingly suspect all the time.

To rainbow how I feel specifically about that content, I'd say I find sig's interactions with IAWY slightly mafia. I thought Sloonei's interactions looked worse (moderate mafia, at least).

What do others think?

Scotty wrote:Looking at MP's posts and... Oh god.
500 posts in this thread

MP's been a rabid sock this game already. Ugh. I ain't readin all that shit.

Since Golden is going to the Championships, I'm:
1) Trying to prepare him as much as possible, and
2) Essentially playing this game like my Championships game, since I'm not playing one over on MU

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