The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:This was definitely the best game I've ever seen MP play. Silverwolf displayed her intuitive strengths again on Day 1 and put MP under serious pressure, but he evaded that and ended up controlling the game wire-to-wire. Bravo, sir.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Indeed, ika insisted on killing Silver N1, which I was OK with because she was onto me more than anyone else. I feared Epignosis, so I killed him too.

Good thing you did, buddy boy, because I was going to grill you. I was of the opinion that you and Golden were both bad.

I had a feeling. I even PMed you when JJJ said you were replacing LC similarly to how you PMed me when Prisoner JJJ entered Turf Wars, with "Shit, Epi is going to figure me out" or something to that effect.

Silverwolf wrote:Effort is never indicative of alignment. If Ika is tunneling he either is a PR w results or its his scum team mate. He will also do it to me if I'm scum in a game and he catches me. Just an FYI no matter hi well you know someone, you should never rely solely on meta alone to read them. Good job scum team and congratulations on the win. Whoever the vig is, should hide their head in shame.

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Indeed, ika insisted on killing Silver N1, which I was OK with because she was onto me more than anyone else. I feared Epignosis, so I killed him too.

Good thing you did, buddy boy, because I was going to grill you. I was of the opinion that you and Golden were both bad.

Scotty wrote:Well shit.

I would be pissed if MP is actually bad. Pissed. As Golden said, if Mp is bad, this is one of his most masterful games: not enough time, leader in posts, exhaustive quality, hand picking a baddie on day 2. I mean, it's pretty much a worst case scenario that I don't want to go up against.

Wilgy, I had a big ole post in response to your questions that got deleted in the thread lock because I forgot that I can't post in the night. Now that it was deleted, my desire to respond to him has plummeted.


I am not scum, and would like to vote either Wilgy or ika today. Ika is just pissed that he hasn't won yet. This is the ika I remember from Turf Wars.

I'm not voting for anyone yet until we've determined AS A GROUP to vote someone.

UNVOTE

ika wrote:so golden, do you realzie now that no matter how well you knwo MP you cant say what you have said?

when you compared me and sivler to you and MP they were 2 diffrent things entirely.

god i need a soda i will post more later.

sig wrote:Sooooooo

ugh

Ika MP I'm going to kill you both for day 1 and what you just pulled like five minutes ago.

ika wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

ika wrote:me and silver litraly had this same scnario once before where it was 2 scums (us), 1 scum, 1 town.

it didnt end due to a bullshit possible tie outcome

Sounds like you're upset the game hasn't ended.

ika, are you bad?

WILL YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY YOU FUCKING SCUM THE FACT ITS NOT OVER IS FUCKING BULLSHIT OF COURSE IM NOT SCUM

THE GAME IS OVER TOWN DOES NOT HAVE CONTROLL OF LYNCH

sig wrote:I'd say in theory since we can tie it then it isn't over. Assuming all mafia vote on one wagon then all town vote on a mafia member and we win the flip.
3/2
2/2
2/1
1/1
It could come down to a one vs one tie tie. But, we basically just need to hit one mafia member tonight and then connect the dots.

what is a G?

ika wrote:me and silver litraly had this same scnario once before where it was 2 scums (us), 1 scum, 1 town.

it didnt end due to a bullshit possible tie outcome

ika wrote:Honestly, the game should be over. Us town doesnt have controll of the lynch, i checked the wincons on MU and this is what scums wincons are

You are Mafia Goon. You win when Town can no longer control the lynch.

Controlling the lynch is arbitrarily defined at us town being able to use our numbers to lynch scum without their assistance, when its 3v3 its impossible for us to do it by natural means.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:MM, if you're mafia, then well fucking played. Either way, I need you to work with me here so I can figure you and the rest of these players out, because I'm feeling lost. When are you going to be around?

Not until tonight, I'm on my way to school now and will be busy all day.

sig wrote:voting unvote for the time so I can see the votes. I agree with MP we are in lylo. I think the possibility of even night vig just went up seeing how we had kills only on even nights. Golden was the JK, which doesn't help us much since we had a kill every night however, if he mentions the vig it could mean we have an every night vig who he protected twice?

I'm going to review some stuff. Right now I'd be fine with Wilgy. but I'm holding my vote.

I'm in the middle of school so I'll be in and out.

linki: If MM is mafia I so called it.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I am amazed at how fast you had that post written up MP.

I think we are down to two scenarios.

DrWilgy wrote:

Golden wrote:Since this is ending soon anyway...

I once again implore the town vig... use your kill to take out someone who we don't want to be at lylo with, because they are difficult to understand. Wilgy would be my preference.

Please don't use it on someone we are more likely to be able to figure out on our own, even if you think they are bad.

Or... We could y'know... Kill the baddies?

Do we even know when LYLO is?

(i'll go back to barking up my tree now though... No one u understands the wiggles)

Golden wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:For what it's worth, Soneji was gone for almost the entirety of last weekend as well.

Still doesn't make me feel better about him at this stage in the game.

I know... and I'm strong town reading him, but he needs to really show us more of where he's at. I hope I'm not wrong about him at this stage.

The interaction between him and IAWY speaks fairly strongly.

Golden wrote:Since this is ending soon anyway...

I once again implore the town vig... use your kill to take out someone who we don't want to be at lylo with, because they are difficult to understand. Wilgy would be my preference.

Please don't use it on someone we are more likely to be able to figure out on our own, even if you think they are bad.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:For what it's worth, Soneji was gone for almost the entirety of last weekend as well.

Still doesn't make me feel better about him at this stage in the game.

Golden wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I think we should lynch zebra today. Twice, she intentionally put DrWilgy in a near hammer situation. I don't think she would do such a thing if DrWilgy were a civilian, or a vanilla mafia.

Tin-foil hat time. I think zebra is a power role on the mafia team, and she's trying to make it through the day alive, hence attempting to off DrWilgy.

This could also explain her 'I'm happier to be lynched myself than have MP lynched' stuff on day one.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I think we should lynch zebra today. Twice, she intentionally put DrWilgy in a near hammer situation. I don't think she would do such a thing if DrWilgy were a civilian, or a vanilla mafia.

Tin-foil hat time. I think zebra is a power role on the mafia team, and she's trying to make it through the day alive, hence attempting to off DrWilgy.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:EBWOP: I think zebra would only do such a thing, not wouldn't.

Golden wrote:Thoughts on IAWY relationships:

Spoiler: show

Inawordyes wrote:Okay, sorry! Sorry sorry sorry. This is game relevant, but I'll put it in OT anyways; I was super tired and fell asleep Saturday night while I was catching up, hence why I just randomly disappeared abruptly, and I fully intended to be here yesterday, but some things came up unexpectedly unexpectedly after I started catching up in the morning, and I ended up being tied up all day and didn't get a chance to check the site until after EoD. But I'm here now, so hopefully I'll be fine.

I caught up with the rest of the day last night post-EoD but I'm not gonna go back and relook over then at the moment because I went to bed with a headache and woke up with a bloody nose, so I'm just not feeling like it haha, so again, if anybody has any specific points or quotes they want my thoughts on, quote 'em forward!

Current thoughts I have from memory: I don't like Frog's insistence on knowing my meta. Haha yes, this is another meta comment, but seriously, I don't step up as a leader when I'm a goodie on any other site other than MU because MU is so different than sites that I usually play on. Case on point is this MM game that I played that just finished this week:

http://mafiamaniac.net/index.php?showtopic=4037

I don't have that big of a thread presence except where it's necessary to avoid being wrongfully suspected and lunched for it, I.e. in any MU game. So I feel like, while I understand why he mentioned it because that's the only experience he has with me, it's unfair to hold me to my MU meta when I only use that meta on MU because MU is vastly sifferent than what we play here or at MM. And repeating it so often led to other people getting into the mindset that that's how I play, and without being anle to be here to correct him, I'm just kinda invariably damaged goods coming into D2 haha, because that's the perception of me now.

I understand, along those lines, why the IAWY wagon formed, but I do not like how it formed, and how it stayed. A CFD three hours before EoD on an MIA player just seems like going for low-hanging fruit, which is the strategy that Frog advocated for and it got him lynched, in the biggest of ironies haha. So that's pretty dumb haha.

Has anyone noticed that in MP's ISO reads, he's just reading posts null after null after null? I don't understand how he's getting town and Mafia leans when he's not reading all the posts he quoting either way. I understand why he'd scumread me for cultural differences - which he expressed that he knew from pregame stuff is my personality anyways - but it seems like he's being a little heavy-handed in keeping the read. I do think he's on the right side of the numbers, but if he keeps on me like that, he's gonna drop spots fast.

I didn't like how Soneji entered the thread guns-blazing with an aggressive attitude, I also didn't like how he didn't address my RVS vote at all but used it offhand as a reason to scum read me. I would lean him baddie for that.

I don't understand the backlash on Zebra and the wagon that formed on him for self-voting, that was kinda weird, and then IIRC (and correct me if I'm wrong, I'm going from memory) all his voters went from him, to MP, to me.

That's what I got at the moment, quote forward relevant issues or points that were directed at me since I know where we're quite a few of them, and I'll do my best to answer them.

The bit in orange would lean towards MP and Soneji not being teammates. He seems to have been most in dispute with them (something borne out by looking at the other side of the conversation). His point on zebra doesn't seems teammate neutral, rather than indicative. It's in IAWY's interests to find the backlash on zebra odd regardless of zebra's alignment.

Spoiler: show

Inawordyes wrote:

Inawordyes wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Inawordyes used the word unexpectedly twice in a row.

No need to be pedantic. I didn't realize I did that, sorry!

Is that your only response to my post, though? IIRC you were one of the people who was most on my case for being inactive, which kinda makes me suspicious that you're not more into calling out points I made.

This, from day two, makes me very slightly lean away from MM being a teammate, I think in particular given IAWY and MM were the two with votes beforehand so it behooves IAWY to make MM look a little dodgier. The fact it took him two bites in response to MM to do this also helps me lean away from it being an overnight plan for him to suspect MM.

Spoiler: show

Inawordyes wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:An ISO of MP's ISOs This is ridiculous, but not as ridiculous as MP having over 300 posts on Day 1. For the numbers included next to each name, the first one is the number of null posts read, while the second number is the total number of posts observed.

Psittaciform - (2/2) All null post reads, but gives a slight mafia read.

Metalmarsh89 - (6/6) All null post reads, but initially gives a slight mafia read before considering to push it to moderate mafia read.

Long Con - (10/14) 10 null posts, 2 town posts, and 2 scum posts. Ultimately gives Long Con a slight mafia read.

Inawordyes - (10/17) 7 mafia posts (that vary in strength) and the rest null, which result in a moderate mafia read on Inawordyes.

DrWilgy - (15/15) All null posts that result in a null read.

Soneji - (7/9) 7 null post reads and two town post reads, which result in a slight town read.

@Inawordyes: I see what you're saying here. 3 players on this list roughly equate to null reads, but MP gives them slight or moderate mafia reads anyway. He did say in my ISO that he is ignoring null reads. I don't understand that reason for this, especially since he still gave DrWilgy a null read (or more accurately, gave no read). Anyway, if you want to look deeper into the ISOs, the links are here.

It's not even necessarily that I disagree with why he read them null, but going over all their posts and in three cases null-reading all their posts at the time of he ISO but then leaning them either way seems kinda counter-intuitive. I know that he said he was reserving straight-null for Soneji at the start because Soneji was the only NK-shower at the time, but with that many nulls you can't really expect to be able to read them either way without having some sort of slight town and scum basis.

It looks like MP is just posting to post and look like he's contributing. It's not inherently scummy because he's done a lot of other stuff that townish, but it's something to keep an eye on.

I think it's worth noting that IAWY is contributing to the 'MP is just trying to look like he's contributing' push.

Spoiler: show

Inawordyes wrote:

Golden wrote:Here's the thing, zebra. Full seriousness.

I am town, but I'd sooner mislynch you and leave my vote on you than be lynched myself. I'm playing this game for practice for champs. I don't actually care if you go down. I don't actually WHO goes down. I'm going to do my best to try to solve the game and thats all there is to it.

I'll do what I have to do to survive in this game. If that means lynching the people who think I'm bad, even if they are town, then so be it. Means I get longer to practice.

I don't have any teammates to come to my rescue and help. If I do get lynched today, I'll call it a failed endeavour. Certainly, I'll give up, because I don't have time for this shit. I'm playing because JJJ was nice enough to give me a chance to practice, even though I really don't have time for it.

If you don't care about the game itself and just see it as practice, then you're not practicing that well because you're missing a fundamental part of the experience, which is that you have to care at least a little. Surviving to a new day means nothing if you don't care about who's surviving with you, you can't solve the game if you're disinterested in haphazardly taking down goodies in your wake.

Not everybody you think is Mafia is mafia, nor is everybody you think is Town town. If you haphazardly lynch whoever pings your radar without concern for whether they're goodies at the end of it, then you're not learning anything that will help you in the MU games, and from my own experience, I can tell you that you will be called to account for it.

That's my 2¢.

This is much more indicative of zebra being IAWY's teammate, particularly the bit I underlined. I feel like this is a soft defence of a teammate, without appearing to be directly taking a view on zebra's alignment (but implying I'm willing to haphazardly take down goodies).

There are a few more posts from IAWY that lead me even further down the track of MP not being a teammate. No point quoting them all. This one is a good one, though.

Spoiler: show

Inawordyes wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Would you be able to rank your scum reads somehow?

What did you think of my Soneji ISO earlier?

I could, eventually. But I still feel I want to hear more from most of them (since they are all/most pretty quiet). It still feels unsolved to me in a way, if that makes sense. But IAWY is my prefered lynch, and my strongest suspicion.

I was so tired when I read the Soneji-ISO I don't really remember. Sorry. I do appreciate you putting in the work, and I will surely get back to it. Apart from that I've looked into his ISO on my own today to check up on things. I'm not convinced by him, he's a null I'm suspicious of. He could very well be teamed with IAWY if he is indeed scum. I don't feel his push on Sig is very good. Firstly because I feel Sig is a player that would be easy to push on (easy target, for various reasons), and two because the argument doesn't seem all that strong to me and gets a bit repetative. I don't think it makes that much sense for scum!Sig to push on Soneji of all people if Sig is scum. That being said, I don't think it's impossible for Soneji to be town doing all this either. So it's inconclusive atm.

No worries, that's understandable. I feel like we're mind melding the most this phase, so I'm with you on IAWY. It would take some real town spark from IAWY to get me to move that vote, because I have not liked his recent posts (though he seems like a nice fellow).

Not a problem, let me know what you think when you get to it. Yeah, sig is an easy mislynch (or lynch in general), so I think he's particularly difficult to read. I need to figure him out myself.

Thanks for the elaboration.

Once you read me as Mafia you stop looking at me as town, so commenting that you don't like my recent posts is meaningless except as a tool to convince others to look at me the same way, which is a scummy tactic, or possibly a cop tactic but I don't think you would've been this subtle about a redcheck on me if that was a possibility.

Then he goes on to question all his null reads but there really isn't anything there. He votes for each in turn but there is little that can be said for each in way of engagement, I think, except for his engagement with me. I'm not reading into his final rainbow list because wifom.

Scotty wrote:Also Soneji needs to get his ass back like 70 hours ago.

Scotty wrote:I am in a show and have nothing to add. I feel best voting for zebra or Wilgy. We want to consolidate?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Golden wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:It'd be nice to hear from Scotty and Soneji as well.

Yeah, I really want to hear from these guys.

Same. We need to be united in this. I'll consider moving my vote, but I'm most comfortable with zebra or Wilgy.

I will admit, Wilgy's last few posts have seemed like he legitimately gives a shit, so I'm feeling slightly better about him.

Could it be that he had votes against him and started giving a shit? I don't find that alignment indicative.

Golden wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:It'd be nice to hear from Scotty and Soneji as well.

Yeah, I really want to hear from these guys.

Golden wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Golden wrote:One thing I did feel like, MP, and correct me if I'm wrong... but I feel like you didn't analyse IAWY's words when considering possible teammate interactions, and I might try and do that too.

Oh, I guess that's true. My bad.

I think IAWY didn't say much to most of us, but that's a good idea, I'd definitely be interested in that.

What I'm actually currently doing is looking at your iso to see about your interactions.

(Don't let ika think I'm reevaluating, though, ok?)

Golden wrote:One thing I did feel like, MP, and correct me if I'm wrong... but I feel like you didn't analyse IAWY's words when considering possible teammate interactions, and I might try and do that too.

Golden wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Golden wrote:I am here, patchily.

Oh, good, I'm not here for long right now either.

I need to iso again, but in the end I think I still feel best with the votes I still felt best with at start of day... wilgy or zebra.

I'm sort of leaning towards zebra right now. I don't think anyone can say that I and others haven't tried to engage her but she honestly doesn't seem to want to engage. Whether or not it's just because I pissed her off on day 2 or what... I don't know. But her messing with the vote yesterday seemed more actively harmful than Wilgy.

I just hope zebra isn't town vig because I really want to take Wilgy, I really hope the town vig will take Wilgy tonight if he isn't lynched.

linki @MP - honestly zebra, more than wilgy. I think. I think.

Wilgy seems to be taking an entirely 'wifom' approach to the game, so I don't think anything meaningful would be gleaned out of his posts.

Golden wrote:Having said that...

I still feel like wilgy would be a teammate of sig, or a teammate of zebra, and I don't feel like sig and zebra are teammates of each other.

Golden wrote:Somehow I really didn't fully understand Soneji's case on sig until reading through your iso on him.

I remain convinced soneji is town.

I'd like to hear soneji's thoughts on sig at the moment. Zebra's too. Anyones, really.

I think maybe I've been wrong about sig and I'm seriously considering a sig lynch.

Golden wrote:I am here, patchily.

Golden wrote:Wow, MP, I completely disagree on the sig iso. It looks SO BADLY like he is trying to set up an MM lynch to come straight out of an IAWY one, all the way through days one and two. I don't mind the hard defending, but the set up of MM is strong. He even suggests the vig take out MM.

I never like this pattern 'I don't think x is bad, but if x is bad, y is bad too'. It looks like a way to take a civilian out behind a teammate. I use it that way, if I can.

It makes me feel worse about sig. Conversely, if sig was bad it would make me feel a little better about MM and zebra, since they seem to have both been strong pushes by him.

Now I'm conflicted about my vote. I was hoping I'd come out of that one agreeing with you.

Having said that, I went back and read the zebra one again and... that looks just as bad today as it did yesterday.