The Syndicate

Sloonei wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Sloonei, if you could lynch any two players right now, who would you pick?
I'm still committed to INH, but I'll pretend we're moving past him and give two other names. Scotty would be first. sprityo was underwhelming and a little shaky in his time here, and Scotty's re-entry didn't strike me as enthusiastic or committed. I got the sense that he subbed back in for a scum player who already had a big case mounted against him and, understandably if this is the case, gave up.

For the sake of not naming two quiet spots/players, I'll also name MP or Mac as my second. I don't know which. I haven't had a chance to pick either of their brains in this game yet, so my read on both is still up in the air.

What would you like to pick my brain about?

Dom wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
Dom wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Y'all could be right. NaiveJimmyJay has been wrong about similar reads lately.
What do you think of him saying he's gonna go "full Mac"?
Do you only care about Jimmy's opinion on this subject?
No, but he's the one that seems to think that wasn't him premeditating being highly aggressive in the thread.

I know you didn't ask me, but I don't think it's indicative of anything. As a townie he could still know that he was getting very upset and then prefaced his post with "full Mac", indicating that he realizes how upset he is getting but still knowing he was going to spew it anyway because he felt like he had to let it out. It doesn't necessarily indicate a nefarious or planned attempt to get upset. I would argue that the sheer intensity of his meltdown indicates that it had to be genuine, at least somewhat. I do not see INH fabricating that large of an emotional reaction.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Maybe it's just me. I have gotten frustrated when suspected as a townie, but never as a bad guy. I'd obviously still fight off suspicion as a bad guy, but getting angry is something else. I don't understand why there's reason for anger at people who are just right.

I've gotten plenty emotional in either alignment, so perhaps it depends on the individual. It's frustrating as a member of the town and mafia to be suspected because either way I feel like I'm letting my team down. And I hate that.

MacDougall wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I reciprocate INH's frustration. I have no idea how to lay out a case against him without it resulting in an explosion.
Could you try to stow the cases you have in mind and just make an emotion-driven read? Sometimes the gut speaks louder than the mind.
My sentimental calibrations compel me to feel that insertnamehere's town-alignment is a falsehood.
Is that you Darth Sloonei?

Does this mean you thought the post you quoted of Sloonei's was mafia-indicative? If so, why?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think INH is town. To make posts like these as a bad guy for the sake of staying alive in a Mafia game would be absolutely deplorable. I don't think he is that person.

I'd largely agree with this, but cautiously.

I would caution though that his frustrations could still be entirely sincere regardless of a mafia alignment, at least from my perspective. Nearly every single meltdown I have had, even while mafia, has been either entirely or mostly sincere. It is not like I enjoy feeling that way, and I do not think mafia-aligned players need to fake frustrations -- mafia is an inevitably tense game and it can be just as, if not more, frustrating to be suspected as mafia than town.

Oh man, this stuff continues. Can't believe I missed out on this.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:MP, it's probably for the best if you chuck the defense mindset out the window. We've had enough of that in this game. Reads, reads, reads.

Getting to it.

I can feel INH's emotions through my computer screen, as if they're a gigantic black hole of sheer frustration sucking in my soul.

His frustration very well could still be compatible with a mafia perspective, but I lean towards town.

Quin wrote:
Quin wrote:Am I the only one who keeps getting 503 errors on the syndicate? If it's a me problem, anyone know how to fix it?
I think there might be *some* issue somewhere, because now the syndicate just won't load anything. Are you aware of any issues with the server, MP? Or is it entirely on my end?

I am not aware of this issue occurring. Are you still having problems with it?

Dom wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote: Why do you think they don't appear manipulative? It's becoming increasingly difficult for me to judge this fairly, I feel, given that I am the continued target of his accusations and I don't feel like he is even giving me a chance.
MP-- this is the post I linked to.
"Why do you think they don't appear manipulative?" is a straight implication that I am being manipulative.

Except that it isn't, as I elaborated upon earlier. The quote that you post above here was a direct response to JJJ who said point blank:

MovingPictures07 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Sloonei wrote:What are all our thoughts on Dom?
I still think he looks town. I don't really think his attacks on MP appear manipulative. I see a person who is perceiving a strong parallel to RoTTK and is pursuing that angle diligently. The worst I could say is that he had a quiet Day 2. That's not a big issue to me. I'm not a fan of his isolated vote either I guess. Some people do that.
Why do you think they don't appear manipulative? It's becoming increasingly difficult for me to judge this fairly, I feel, given that I am the continued target of his accusations and I don't feel like he is even giving me a chance.

And so my question was essentially: "Why do you think that way?" That's it. I was not implying anything about you being manipulative, as I go on to explain that it is difficult for me to judge whether you are being sincere or not (even though I leaned towards you being so more so than being manipulative/mafia) because I was the continued subject of your accusations and I felt like you were not listening to me and engaging with me on it.

I'm not sure why you would think that's an implication of anything. It was a question and that's it.

Sloonei, how did I go from being in the top town tier in your rainbow to one of your two major suspects? I still have plenty to read so maybe I just haven't come across it yet, but I wanted to inquire now nonetheless.

I've been a bit distracted with Facebook and some emails I've received so my catchup has barely started, lol, but it'll be going full speed in a minute here and it'd be nice to talk with someone... looks like I have a lot of posts to read.

Hey LoRab, are you currently around in enough fashion to talk a bit? Is anyone else around as well?

Alright, I'm going to start trying to catch up now.

OK, I should be around within a couple of hours, assuming I can get rid of this migraine. I hope someone else be here.

Ugh, I'm feeling like crap today, so my catchup will come... who knows. Hopefully tonight. Sorry for being behind.

Fuck, I'm so sorry to you all, especially G-Man. I lost track out of time between grading, my paper, and Annie and I unexpectedly went out for a dinner date as well (which was nice because I've been busy as hell lately).

I'll try to catch up later tonight if I can.

Hello folks! I just have to finish grading these exams and then I'll be around for a bit.

Okay, I have to go now. BBL. Probably won't be back until tomorrow.

MacDougall wrote:Badfindel

What about his recent posts appears bad to you?

Dom wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote: <SNIP>
Elohcin is utterly uninspiring. I have had trouble reading her in the past, but I'm not letting that influence my judgment. She deserves a strong mafia read at this point because she has the most incentive of anyone to kill Epignosis; despite her continued confusion, she appears to be making no effort to engage with or understand anyone else's views whatsoever. I also find the fact that she finds Jay civilian suddenly now dubious given that she seemed to suspect him earlier for potentially hiding behind his roleplaying even though he evidently was not doing so and continues not to do so. I think all of her posts are incredibly easy for her to maintain as mafia, and her tone is completely underwhelming and consistently devoid of emotion, coming across as manufactured. She is definitely my biggest mafia read; I don't have any reason to read her as town.
I am confused by this... uninspiring as a vote or uninspiring as a civ?

What do you mean uninspiring as a vote? I could interpret that two different ways.

But I think my answer is uninspiring as a civ. Her behavior didn't inspire any reaction from me to believe she had any remotely town mindset. Does that answer your question?

Dom wrote:
Spoiler: show
LoRab wrote:
Dom wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.
Not that this is a bad thing-- but I'm just curious why you think this.
You must be aware to some extent that your approach this game is narrower in focus than average. What happened to your suspicion of MP?
I wouldn't say that.
And I've addressed that. I don't think it is likely MP and Eloh were teammates.

Possible? Yes. Likely? No.
Sloonei wrote:
Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.
Not that this is a bad thing-- but I'm just curious why you think this.
Your posts are short.
Are my posts known for being long?
LoRab wrote:
Dom wrote:LoRab, what am I paranoid about?
I answered this in a prior post, but your claim that MP buddied you I don't think was ever substantiated and his putting you on a rainbow list didn't suffice for me. Also, your tone in responding to questions asked of you and mentions of things that have been noticed are of a tone that seems overly defensive, in a paranoid sort of way.

Why am I your number 3 bad read? Because, again, you have not said a single thing about why you find me suspicious.
#1) So... what am I paranoid about? What am I afraid of? What am I worried about? You didn't answer that question.
#2) He... buddied me? He suddenly agreed with me and gave me a civ read with zero reasoning?
#3) I absolutely gave reasons. Your suspicion of me is hollow, has no substance, and has no internal logic. You smeared me, attempted to get others to make the case for you. I outlined this earlier.

@Mac
Anytime you want to tell me, Mac, why I dropped so low on your reads when you suspect Zebra for the exact same thing is a good thing!
1. You are paranoid about people suspecting you. You are worried about others being suspicious of you. I have said that several times in different ways.

2. I do not think he buddied you, but it's possible I read his posts differently than you. Can you give examples of specific posts in which you perceive him to have buddied you?

3. No, you did not give reasons. Unless your entire case is that I suspect you. Which, is really not a case. Yes, I suspect you--I have given reasons and have explained those reasons. That you don't get them does not mean that there is no internal logic. Also, that I suspect you, even if I am wrong, does not mean that I'm bad--at all. I think you are overstating the posts I've made about you--and every post you make like this, accusing me of smearing you and having a false case, make you seem increasingly suspicious.

And where did I try to get others to make a case for me?

And I apologize if I read as defenses what you apparently meant as accusations.

Your entire suspicion of me seems to be based on the fact that I vaguely suspect you. Am I wrong in that assessment?

Because that's kind of the actual definition of a switcheroo.
1) Citation Needed. Also contradictory. First I ignored your post, then I am too paranoid about your post. Pick one.
2) My only interaction in the entire game with him was "you're bad" and he listed me as his #2 civvie with zero explanation. What else would you like to know? He was overly kind to my suspicion. He avoided taking any issue with it. He lacked a coherent voice in the thread-- he has since adopted a more serious one. He said that I contributed more to Romance of Three Kingdoms than any other player-- a straight falsehood. suddenly I became a manipulator to him, but that was never mentioned again. My case against MP is well documented and before the Eloh flip, I was ready to vote for him today too. HOWEVER, in my read through of this, I found a post I find... intriuging. Stay tuned.
3) Yes. I did.

My suspicion of you is based on the fact that you have zero internal logic in your suspicion of me.

Woah, hold the phone here. I don't think you're misrepresenting me purposefully; I think we're reading two different threads. Either way there is a misunderstanding between me and you; consequently I am compelled to offer my comments on some of what you've said.

As has been usual for me this game, my responses are in sarcastic orange.

=============================================================================================

Regarding this comment: "My only interaction in the entire game with him was "you're bad" and he listed me as his #2 civvie with zero explanation."

A few things:
1) You're right that we had little interaction before I called you a town read on my rainbow, but we actually had two bits of interaction, this post in addition to the aforementioned "you're bad" one. I don't think this really changes your point at all, but just wanted to throw it out there.
2) More significantly, I didn't interact with literally every player in the game before making my first rainbow. In fact, you were far from the only one I had little to no interaction with. That doesn't mean my making a determination that you seemed town so far is buddying, nefarious, or even without reason. You were posting and had content to judge. So I judged it.
3) Here is the Rainbow #1 in question. You said I listed you as my #2 civvie. That isn't correct; I wasn't ordering people within groups. It was way too early in the game for that. Off the top of my head I believe I didn't list people within groups on my #2 Rainbow either but then I switched it for #3 subsequent and made sure to specify it in #3. At least I think I did. If I didn't, that's my bad. Anyway, you can see that whenever I don't rank people within groups that my within-groups are always listed alphabetically; this is to avoid confusion on that front. So you were one of many slight town reads I had at that time, not my #2 civvie. Sorry if that was unclear.

=============================================================================================

Regarding this comment: "He was overly kind to my suspicion. He avoided taking any issue with it."

Overall I would agree with your assessment that I was calm in response to it. I have given explanation for that, I believe. I am also, despite being engaged in a tight deadline for this paper project that I'm super nervous about, less stressed in my life than I have been nearly all of the time the last few years. That helps.

I wouldn't necessarily say I avoided taking any issue with it; I tried to engage you multiple times on it to understand what you were saying. I even asked you what your deal was.

=============================================================================================

Regarding this comment: "He said that I contributed more to Romance of Three Kingdoms than any other player-- a straight falsehood."

You're exaggerating a bit here. To be fair though, I guess I exaggerated as well, even with that "nearly" qualifier. Anyway, despite the exaggeration I wouldn't say it was an outright falsehood. The point I was making to Elo in that post still stands. You weren't hiding behind roleplay in that game at all; you were doing the opposite.

=============================================================================================

Regarding this comment: suddenly I became a manipulator to him, but that was never mentioned again.

This is the one I see the biggest misunderstanding with. Where in that post did I call you manipulative?

I have never once even mafia read you in this entire game. If I thought you were being manipulative, I would have called you on it. That's not what I did.

I expressed frustration that I felt like you weren't even giving me a chance (and you can see my multiple attempts to engage you on it in my ISO before that post you reference here), and I asked Jay why he thought you didn't seem manipulative. Note that Jay specifically said "I don't really think his attacks on MP appear manipulative." I thus asked him why not because, while I still GTH was reading you town, it was becoming increasingly difficult for me to judge because I felt like you didn't care about engaging me or changing your mind.

I did NOT say it was becoming increasingly difficult for me to see you as non-manipulative, even.

So I dispute that I ever called you manipulative beacuse I have never even thought your behavior seemed more manipulative than genuine at any point this game.

zebra, is there anything I can do to engage with you or address your suspicion of me short of my being lynched? Because I'd prefer that not to happen.

Hello! So I'm here coding and will try to at least quickly catch up to stay current in the thread, but then I should leave again.

Well, I've lost steam. Better go to bed, going to be up at 4:30 with a long day tomorrow. See you folks later, maybe tomorrow, maybe Wednesday morning/afternoon.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Bleh. I wanted Wilgy to say something.

DrWilgy

I'll join this. He's still one of my weakest reads.

DrWilgy

I should cast my vote for somebody.

Dom wrote:Why do some people suspect motel room?

Are you reading him as town?

His recent behavior is reading pretty town to me like his early d1 stuff was. I was finding his contributions in the midst there to be a bit weak, and the fact that his d3 vote was baseless bothered me at first. Right now I'd say he's looking solid though.

Dom, who else is on your radar other than indi and INH at this time?

Also, what was it specifically that caused you to re-examine your read of me; was it just the Elo flip specifically or something else? Is there anything else you want me to talk about?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:It's a good thing Wilgy is confirmed bad. Makes the lynch decision today easy.

?!?!!?!?!

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Mac and MP -- you both appear to suspect Glorfindel still. Do you disagree with my logic here:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Spoiler: show
Elohcin wrote:@ Quin - Yes, you found the post I was referring to.

@ Sloonei - If you are trying to read more on a person that you could be troubled about, you don't make it obvious. Duh!

The players I will be looking at today are:
Mac - simply b/c other players are finding him suspicious and I seem to be missing the hype. I need to reread him.
Lorab - b/c (no offence) I always see her playstyle as sneaky and bad and I need to decide if it's real or just my predisposition.
Quin - b/c he replaced a non-participant before replacing Glor who also said he cannot participate. I imagine a baddie would be replaced before a civ.
and
....not sure who else atm.

I agree with Lorab and Sloon about Glor. I think we ought to see more of him before we decide to boot him out with allthe RL stuff going on there.
The highlighted portion is of interest. She seemed to think Quin replaced Glorfindel and not sanmateo. Perhaps it was fake; I kind of doubt it. Based on Quin replacing in before indiglo did, Elohcin painted Quin as bad ("baddies replace before civs"), associating Quin with the Glorfindel slot. Thus, she was calling Glorfindel bad in this post with the following discrepancies at hand:

1. The premise is already dubious. There's no good reason to think a baddie had to be replaced before a townie between Quin and indiglo.
2. Quin didn't replace Glorfindel.'

I get the feeling this moment says a lot about indiglo and Glorfindel. My instinct right now is to say it looks good for Glorfindel and bad for indiglo. This isn't the first time someone has suggested that a baddie is usually a higher priority replacement, which leaves Elohcin with an opportunity to play into the fact that it went the opposite way in this game. I also think she'd be more aware of who was being replaced if it was a member of her team.

I'm feeling inspired by this little doozy. I welcome thoughts.

It's an intriguing observation. I don't disagree with it necessarily, I think I'm just not sure what to do with it. I'm having trouble putting stock in it because, even though I agree that occam's razor suggests Elo didn't fabricate it, she was mafia-aligned. So I'm inclined to ignore it, but who knows, maybe you've uncovered something worthwhile. I haven't really factored it into my read of Glorfindel to be honest.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
MacDougall wrote:HOW DO YOU PRODUCE POSTS LIKE THAT SO FAST
Me or Jay?
Both
Being town helps.

I have a system though. The physical task of compiling the ISO analysis is easier than some might assume, just because of how I use my tabs, hotkeys, and key words.

I'm certain you're more efficient at it than I am, but I have gotten quicker at it over time.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Thanks for the response MP. My immediate reaction is to like it. I'll think about it for a while.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Sidenote: Jay, do you still think there would be value in examining my rainbows over time? You mentioned something about it at the end of Part 1 of your ISO.
It's something I've paid off-hand attention to in the midst of larger analyses. I haven't noticed any meaningful discrepancies. The only note I made before that you could talk about further is your game-long hesitance to color anyone red. Is Elohcin still the only one so far?

Good deal, let me know if you want to talk about it at any point.

Oh, shoot, my bad, you have asked me this before and I totally forgot about it. Yeah, Elohcin has been my only red. I have been really hesitant to color anyone red unless I feel like I am seeing little to no town-compatible behavior in their ISO. Despite consistently mafia reading Glorfindel and sprityo I haven't felt it proper to move either of them down to red because I don't feel confident enough. Part of the problem is that I don't feel I have directly engaged either of them enough and I don't feel they have had any consistently alarming pings like Elo had. I am just trying to avoid committing to strong mafia reads because tunneling used to be an issue for me. That's why I feel like I need to sort through my pinks and oranges ASAP. I'm having trouble feeling strongly about any of these folks, as though I'm not assessing them deeply enough, if that makes sense.

Rainbow #6

JaggedJimmyJay

Sloonei
Quin
MacDougall

LoRab

Dom
motel room

DrWilgy
indiglo
a2thezebra

Glorfindel
insertnamehere
sprityo

Next goal: Sort through these pinks and oranges.

MacDougall wrote:HOW DO YOU PRODUCE POSTS LIKE THAT SO FAST

Me or Jay?

I think I'm getting a bit paranoid or something; I'm drifting a bit more mafia on zebra, indi, and INH, at the least. And you folks have made some compelling observations so far. I feel obligated to update my rainbow again. I'd like to do some ISO digging but I don't have the time or motivation right now.

Well, that's about it. If Jay or anyone else wants to engage me on this or anything else, please let me know. It'd be nice if I can engage anyone on any beefs or concerns they still have with me, while I'm still caught up on the thread. I'll be here off and on for probably the next hour or so max. I will be gone most if not all of tomorrow though, just because of this damn paper.

In request to the following post (forwards/summaries in italics, JJJ ISO bits in spoiler, then my responses in sarcastic orange):

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:You want me to still check out that ISO from before or is it moot?
You might as well if you have the time. Don't respond to everything though. If you want, pick out any three negative things I had to say and talk about them.

in reference to JJJ's two-part ISO on me from Day 3 (Part 1 Part 2)

Three negative things I picked...

1) JJJ observed various posts wherein I was trying to employ a more carefree approach in the very beginning of the game (mostly d1). This is his first such observation; in responding to it, I hope to respond to all of those observations as a whole (which take up most of Part 1 of the ISO) and explain my thought process, especially now that it's much later in the game.

Spoiler: show

You're right that I was making a concerted effort to 'play loose'. Day 1s are particularly difficult for me, especially as town, because I historically suffer from severe analysis paralysis. I also get too emotionally tied to these games. I haven't played mafia in a while (since I had to replace out of Red vs Blue and my schedule has been busy), and when I have most of my most recent games I have been rolling mafia, which has been exhausting. I was relieved to receive my alignment because it allowed me the opportunity to take a different approach to hunting. A lot of my behavior during d1 was an attempt to actively revamp my style to some degree to increase my effectiveness and my enjoyment, comprising the combination of (1) trying to just not take things seriously to keep my blood pressure down and my enjoyment up, (2) reaction baiting (though not very effectively), and (3) trying to listen more to my gut but nonetheless not giving in too much to emotion, because I've found that my town game is pretty ineffective between trying to overanalyze everything and tunneling. Now that I type all of this out I think I realize that's what Dom was reading as inconsistent, and perhaps why he was perceiving that I was deliberately trying to play differently / control my outbursts. He can attest to that being an accurate interpretation or not. I'm not sure if this helps at all but I don't see the point in not being transparent about it anymore, even if I thought it was evident I was trying to play differently.

Unfortunately, as much as I tried though it just didn't feel natural and I kept slipping into my usual more rationally-driven playstyle, and I abandoned it after I didn't feel like it was working that much for me. I'm not sure how Metalmarsh does it.

2) I expressed a small beef with Jay on d1 with respect to his treatment of Scotty before Scotty's flip, as follows:

Spoiler: show

While Jay's observation here is fair to some degree, I think it doesn't represent the full picture -- that I didn't immediately become satisfied. With Jay's first response to me expressing my beef, his tone was still coming across as too emotionless for my liking. It wasn't until Jay fully explained his train of thought in the quote he links above that I could see a town JJJ who still thoroughly considered what I felt was missing in my initial nitpicky observation. I believed his explanation, particularly the bit where he said:

[spoiler][quote="JaggedJimmyJay"]He was bad and I looked like an idiot. That kind of thing has actually happened to me a few times lately. I also wrongly read you in Romance of the Three Kingdoms on a purely emotional level. Perhaps my confidence in those types of reads is shaken. I felt inclined to put that stuff away in my own brain and focus on the concrete: was he answering the questions adequately or not.[/quote][/spoiler]
I asked myself if this sounded like town JJJ and I concluded that it did. The fact that Jay walked me through his exact thought process and opened up was what satisfied me.

3) As I was catching up on the thread at one point, I tried to engage Mac on why he wanted to lynch sprityo even though by the point in which I had caught up he expressed strong desires to lynch JJJ and Rico:

Spoiler: show

I think Jay's point here would be fair if I had maintained this perspective after catching up on the thread, but I didn't. See this post. I don't have anything else to say here, just wanted to correct the record.

Sidenote: Jay, do you still think there would be value in examining my rainbows over time? You mentioned something about it at the end of Part 1 of your ISO.

OK, I'm leaving the thread for a bit until I get this ISO done because at this rate I'm not going to get it done tonight.

Hey Dom, just caught your post in linki. What do you think about that post of indi's you quoted -- with respect to her alignment? Does it influence your read at all in that way?

MacDougall wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Who wants to vote for the Zebra with me?
Convince me. I know you were BZZZZing around her earlier, but just tell me as concisely as possible why I should join you.
Zebra had a civ read of me. Well documented. We were buddies.

In light of Elo's flip, she made a 1 emoticon reply, which I found forced and in light of her position on the lynch I made a snap read of bad. That sort of half joking but not kind of read.

The next time she made a rainbow list I was dark orange. She says it's because the elo flip makes me look bad.

I proceeded to bzz her and she came out with a comment that indicated that "I am seeing what I want to see, as usual" which was an affront to my ability to play the game, which is fine, but importantly it indicates that she actually has a civ read of me, because if she had a real Mafia read of me, she'd be reading my activity as manipulative and nefarious rather than wrong.

That (bolded/underlined) logic is compelling. I'd be curious to see her response to that interpretation.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
motel room wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:What do you want from me, Sloonei?
Digging back I found this old classic line.

Putting my vote on insertname for now.
Oh damn. I didn't notice that.

I said that in the champs finale and got roasted. I was bad. I haven't personally observed this as a trendy baddie comment, but I know numerous good players who consider it gospel.
What's the logic behind that attitude / question coming from a more likely mafia than town mindset?
I'll explain my own circumstance from that game for context:

I spent pretty much the entire game under fire from one source, the player coolkid (eventual tournament champion). I fought him at every turn for days and days, never backing down, trying to stay poised under intense pressure. Eventually I dropped that bomb, not realizing it would be a mistake: what do you want from me, man?

It helped change my scenario from "JJJ under pressure" to "JJJ in the noose".

The argument they made against me, which was probably accurate, was that the question represents a sense of desperation wrought of the wrong mindset. They see a baddie who is fighting tooth and nail for every inch of breathing room in the thread, desperate to earn town reads. It was the symbolic cracking of the JJJ eggshell -- no longer was I showing an earnest interest in reading the motivations of my detractor, but instead I was revealing that what I really wanted most was for him to change his mind. That's more scum than town.

Oh, I see, that makes sense. I can see that argument.

MacDougall wrote:Who wants to vote for the Zebra with me?

Convince me. I know you were BZZZZing around her earlier, but just tell me as concisely as possible why I should join you.

I do think that INH's interactions with Elo looked worse than most. I could potentially get behind it, even if my gut is resisting hard.

This reminds me: I need to dig into INH's ISO. And probably some others too.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
motel room wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:What do you want from me, Sloonei?
Digging back I found this old classic line.

Putting my vote on insertname for now.
Oh damn. I didn't notice that.

I said that in the champs finale and got roasted. I was bad. I haven't personally observed this as a trendy baddie comment, but I know numerous good players who consider it gospel.

What's the logic behind that attitude / question coming from a more likely mafia than town mindset?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Anyone think LoRab would have tried to kill me after I called her one of my top two town reads?
Do you have any reason to believe LoRab would have done this over anyone else?
I don't think she did it. I'm asking her detractors.

Oh okay, that makes more sense. I was going to say, what caused the change in heart? Lol.

Lemme go dig up that ISO now.

motel room wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Man, I think INH is my version of Jay's me (wait, what?). By that I mean, my head says he's mafia but my gut is like HE'S SO TOWN MAN. LIKE SO TOWN!
Which one was your GTH on him?

I called him mafia; it's the only time in the game I think my gut actually trended mafia on him a bit, and I don't like his d3 vote. But then he came back out to play again and when reading his most recent posts he shot way back up on my town radar, at least gut-wise.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:You want me to still check out that ISO from before or is it moot?
You might as well if you have the time. Don't respond to everything though. If you want, pick out any three negative things I had to say and talk about them.

Will do.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Anyone think LoRab would have tried to kill me after I called her one of my top two town reads?

Do you have any reason to believe LoRab would have done this over anyone else?

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