The Syndicate

Wow, sweet result!!!! See you in another game, Vomps; BIH, the Ugly One!!

Well done, BDH. I've been starting to turn around you this cycle and this result only confirms that I am probably correct to re-evaluate you in that light.

Just a thought... The Cheerleader kills tonight and only that role can kill. Assuming the civvie role blocker is still alive, it might behoove the person with that role to block the same person they blocked on Night 4, when their kill failed. It would not only save a life but also give that blocker much more likely confirmation that the person they are blocking is indeed The Cheerleader. Since The Cheerleader cannot presumably double target, they cannot possibly pick the same person to die as they did last time, thereby, if the kill fails again, ruling out the likelihood that the kill failed previously because of someone's survival, rather than a block.

Mongoose, I only received two votes today, one of which was from this MP guy. First, not sure why you would need to say players should back off of MP; surely he can defend myself. Second, I am NOT backing off that guy. He is way too suspicious.

Snow Dog wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:...snip...

Snow Dog wrote:I'm coming full circle and thinking of Mp as bad again. Which totally would let BDH off the hook for me. I gave him the bernefit because other players said he was civ. I got my eye on you Alex. You keep me close it seems and then you seem to hang me out and say hey SD agrees with me,that is suspicious right? If you are civ then agreeing with you shouldn't be a problem. I think you are trying to hard MP.

Votes MP

You know what, Snowie, this is the most well-illustrated point I've seen all game. I think I agree.

votes MP

Linki with Vomps: Lolwut

WTF? What is voting for yourself proving? What does it even mean? Are you saying my vote is so absurd that you think what the hell, and vote as well?

i don't get it.

Am slightly regretting my vote though. I was sure earlier as a result of, i though, an eureka moment in bed. As the day progresses am less sure.

I don't think we should necessarily exonerate voting S~V~S if that's what any of you feel is the best way to go -- it's why I kept that post completely OT. I think she needs to go sooner or later if she's not going to play, but considering we can't tell at all if she's a civvie or being framed for Trogdor and she obviously is UNABLE to be here, I am cautious about just lynching her without her being around, even though she's been gone for so long. I won't be voting there, personally.

I agree DP is flying WAY too low as well, and I'm sad to see no sign of LT, though I know she has a lot going on. I hope these three players will show up more soon. I especially see no reason to keep DP around since he obviously refuses to come play, but I won't for him today (tomorrow might be a different story).

Gleam, as to your theory about DP, it can't be correct, because I asked Daisy earlier in the game if teammates could send in their power collectively and she said yes. So unless DP is on a team where the other members are also COMPLETELY absent, someone is still killing.

Vompatti looks pretty bad. His explanation saying he didn't say borokkuei was civ (he said he would play the same if he were civ) and that he is "unpredictable", in addition to all the behavior BDH highlighted, showcase a likely baddie Vompatti. I do hesitate just a bit because he can play really weird games, regardless of alignment, but I think he is definitely a quite likely baddie at this point.

That being said...

Snow Dog wrote:I'm coming full circle and thinking of Mp as bad again. Which totally would let BDH off the hook for me. I gave him the bernefit because other players said he was civ. I got my eye on you Alex. You keep me close it seems and then you seem to hang me out and say hey SD agrees with me,that is suspicious right? If you are civ then agreeing with you shouldn't be a problem. I think you are trying to hard MP.

Votes MP

You know what, Snowie, this is the most well-illustrated point I've seen all game. I think I agree.

votes MP

Linki with Vomps: Lolwut

Bullzeye wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:On another note, what do players think of Bullzeye?

I think he's the smartest, most attractive and funniest player there has ever been. Also totally a civ.

So why did Devin resurrect you, you think? Or was he lying?

On another note, what do players think of Bullzeye?

I'm a bit pinged by the fact that I mentioned I was keeping an eye on BDH and then Snow Dog comes in and says he agrees. Snow Dog has been very agreeable this game... which is interesting. What do players think? Not accusing you of being baddie, Snowie, just trying to see what others think of you currently, since I can't read you one way or the other (you always seem civvie to me). And if you do want to clarify as to your current train of thought, feel free.

That being said, it could be that Snowie just recognizes this is my civvie game, and has for a while. But it's a thought.. maybe a paranoid one, but one I wanted to express nonetheless.

I'm actually trying to give BDH the BOTD... I just am so unsure of what to make of him. It bothers me he isn't willing to reconsider his thoughts on me, but whatever.

I'm still anxious to hear what timmer has to say because I believe he can be insightful, but it seems he hasn't had a chance yet.

As to S~V~S being replaced, it's possible the host hasn't been able to find another replacement (good luck trying to find someone who will catch up on over 2,000 posts; I commend LT and Indi for taking the challenge, even if they can't do that... I don't know if anyone could).

Daisy, are you currently looking for a replacement for S~V~S?

And mata, to clarify about S~V~S, I said I've seen her; I've seen her on Facebook. But I have not seen her on the site at all and I have not seen her on RM either. I'll shoot her a message in a completely off-topic fashion and see what the situation is and if she's doing OK or if she's still out of commission. I can't imagine she'd ignore the site completely if she had reliable internet access, but I do find it odd she has actually been on FB, even if barely at all, but not here, to at least say something.

JC, as to Vomps being more likely baddie than Trogdor... I suppose he could be Trogdor, but his behavior seems more likely indicative of a baddie than Trogdor. I think Vompatti would send in his PMs if he was around, and he has been.

Unless Vompatti can give a satisfactory answer to the observation regarding his change in mind re: borokkuei, I'm pretty sure I will be giving him my vote. Otherwise, might be S~V~S or someone else, not sure. DP might be worthy of a vote, honestly, as he's still flying WAY too low. I want to hear from DFaraday's brain too, see what he's thinking.

And as to him being Trogdor... it's possible. But for some reason I'm thinking, if Vomps is not civvie, he's more likely a baddie. But I won't complain either way.

BDH, very nice points and summary about Vomps. He seemed to always believe Devin was bad though (which made no sense to me). I was really hoping someone would go back and look at Vomps's behavior. I glanced at his voting record but that was about it.

I never really could tell too much with him this game because he seems mostly like his normal self. However...

I think what's REALLY notable is that you pointed out Vomps said this:

Vompatti wrote:To be honest I think Borokkuei would be playing this way even if he was civ.

And now he's saying borokkuei is "still" at the top of his list.

When you add in other actions of his... it makes an interesting case. Not convinced, but I could see a Vomps vote being wise for sure... and I just might vote for him.

Did you notice any other behavior too or was that everything right there?

Also, Bullz, as to overreacting, I'll openly admit that. I'm insanely invested in this game and my life is a bit on the stressful side at times these past few weeks, so it's made for an interesting combo.

Not only that, but I've received two or more lynch votes so far every single day period. No one else has. Sad to say it isn't too different from most games I play anymore.

As to Dom's overreactions, they seem in character, though they do seem a bit more amplified than normal. I'm having trouble discerning what that means, if anything.

Mata, what are your current evaluations; who are you eyeballing? I'm curious.

Woah, LINKI! Hold on, let me read that.

Thanks for the thoughts, Vomps and Leamiteo. And thanks, I know everyone here tries their best, I just have A LOT to say much of the time. :P I'll recognize that.

Vompatti, even knowing borokkuei quite well, you still think he's most worthy of your vote right now? If so, why? Just curious.

Leamiteo, I agree on Dom, but I'm really not sure what to make of him. He acts like this pretty much every time we play together and I have a hard time telling if he's civvie or baddie sometimes. Some of his behavior has seemed civvie-oriented to me, but at times I've thought the same as you in that he seems to be moving his suspicions a bit... I notice he suspected me and llama hard and sort of dropped llama... I'd have to read back all of his posts honestly. I don't think I'll be voting for him any time soon though, despite our back and forth.

Also, I'm interested towards your thoughts on juliets. I've had the same sort of gut read of her all game, just very hesitant to trust her, but she's not given me too much reason to think BADDIE or anything. For now I'm just keeping her on my radar like everyone else and I don't really have anything to highlight, but if you notice anything in particular, that would be of note.

JC and Leamiteo, I'm feeling the way you do regarding borokkuei. I am leaning confused/inattentive civvie, but there's this voice in the back of my head saying he definitely could still be baddie. My dialogue with him actually didn't go the way I was expecting it to... going into Day 6, I thought he'd be likely to receive my vote. Not so much anymore.

JC, as to Dom, it seems like he's been gunning hard at me for a long time and I don't remember him saying that, so it's possible I missed it. If you find it, let me know. I do remember him saying he'd give me the BOTD for a cycle, but it seems that has ended.

As to S~V~S, I am very lost here. It's so unlike S~V~S in general to even do anything like this, regardless of alignment. I haven't really seen her around the site at all either, so I'm hesitant to just lynch her, especially because it leads us no information. A baddie is a baddie, so I'm still tempted, but I think I want to vote elsewhere. Has anyone been in contact with her or knows what's going on?

On the topic of Vomps... Hey Vomps. What are your thoughts? I don't think I've heard a suspicion from you in a long while.

I apologize if at some point I used a word that could be taken to be an insult towards ANYONE in this game; I would never mean it. I'm sure I probably did, so I wanted to say sorry for that.

BDH, just put yourself in my shoes for two seconds, and you'll realize why it's frustrating. If it makes me seem more suspicious to you, then whatever, because clearly a civvie can't get frustrated, right?

I'm not really upset, in reality, but it is frustrating in a meta/game way because I've been railroaded all game, and I still don't understand what these accusations even are, other than incorrect interpretations of my intentions. Nothing. Not even my voting record has been used against me, except once by BDH when he was pointing out my vote for Hedgeowl (which I explained), and my voting record is not so great.

Mongoose, BDH is really starting to bug me again. And now he's trying to get troops rallied up about borokkuei just because he said he was happy someone died... and after borokkuei explained it, it seemed totally sensible to me. Of course, borokkuei could be bad, and then my evaluation of this goes out the window, but it's what I'm thinking currently. I then asked BDH and apparently I'm still his number 1 suspect after 6 mafia days, which means either he is the most tunnel-visioned civvie I've ever seen and not willing to consider other scenarios, or he is a baddie trying to wind me up. I can't tell. And I feel I can't properly issue an opinion on the matter at all because he's been attacking me all game.

I would think at least some of the baddies, particularly those at Blue Laser since they seem to think they are onto something based on their NK targets, would have cooled off of me completely by now, though. Especially because I feel I've made my role pretty obvious at some point... which I didn't want to do, but it's so evident to me that players are either ignoring the things I say (which I can get, I say a lot, but still, I've said certain things repeatedly) or they're trying to discredit me.

I unfortunately do not know who any of the baddies are and it's driving me crazy. I am thinking I'll probably end up voting S~V~S if she doesn't show up by the end of the cycle, unless something else comes up by then. I don't understand why a civvie would refuse to come back and participate.

I am so tempted to just vote for myself and get this over with, but I'd only be giving the baddies what they want... and I haven't lived long enough. I'm just so tired of being this mega lynch distraction.

Mata: Very good point. I think you might be right. Why would they even have to send in a hut once it's PM form? That kind of throws that theory completely out the window.

Timmer: Looking forward to what you have to say, buddy.

And Mongoose, if you're a baddie, then damn you. :P

If any players who suspect Vompatti could elaborate as to why they actually think that's a good idea, that'd be appreciated, because I've seen his name thrown around, and I might even agree but I'm not sure and I personally have nothing to back it up, so if anyone has anything on that front, that'd be great.

I obviously need to walk away, so that is what I am doing.

I just don't understand why I even bother sometimes; no one even pays attention.

BigDamnHero wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Interesting points, BDH. I could see a scenario in which your analysis is correct, so I will consider. I did get a civvie vibe from a few of his responses, but he could be faking, I suppose...

What do you think of me?

(And why am I still here when I should be sleeping?)

You are still my reigning #1 bad guy suspect champion. I think you've played a masterful game of pulling the wool over many people's eyes. While I whole-heartedly respect the real life pressures you seem to be facing, the "day off free-pass" you were given yesterday seemed to come at a time when the scrutiny of your affiliation was coming to a head and has since cooled off drastically.

Now you may be wondering why I don't continue my full-ccourt press against you...well that reason is because while I feel entirely confident that you are a bad guy, I feel as though we are on the verge of eliminating trogdor from the game and he is more of an immediate threat, not just to myself and the civilians but to everyone else in general!

Here we go again.

Why? How have I been pulling wool over anyone's eyes?

You know what, just fuck this. I'm done trying to maintain the balance between staying alive to the civvies' betterment and attempting to show my intentions. You want to know my intentions? Vote for me. All of you. Because apparently this suspicion of me will NOT rest until I'm dead. It's absolutely tiring on every level... and the temporary "break" I was given yesterday I knew would be temporary and that obviously anyone who wants a baddie win would want me dead, because I'm actually trying to help the civvies every way I can.

Civvies, let it be made VERY clear that the baddies have been controlling this game absolutely, and that nearly everyone in the spotlight so far has been a civvie.

I just cannot fathom how anyone sees my behavior this game as baddie at this point. It's absolutely mindnumbing. Why do I even post?

Dom, this subsequent discussion is directed to you as well. If you want to dispute what I'm saying, feel free, but at least use logic and concrete evidence instead of just foaming at the mouth questioning why anyone should listen to me. If you don't want to listen to me, fine, but I'm honestly getting aggravated again when all I've done all game is stick my neck out completely and we have gotten hardly anywhere good so far.

Hopefully this clarifies where I'm coming from nonetheless.

Mongoose wrote:And just to recapitulate: I think Coach Z likely died on Day 1 because no one was ever jailed, ever.

He couldn't have died on Day 1, and still it makes no sense. Devin said he knew how he survived an NK; he basically came out in the thread foaming at the mouth saying that fact (and thus I see no problem discussing this now, considering he was blatantly obvious, especially given the baddies killed him right off thereafter). He must have protected someone Night 1, protected himself Night 2 because he had a feeling he was going to die (and he wasn't exactly being subtle; he certainly was calling attention.. and by that time, players were shifting their opinions of him from baddie to civvie, mostly, or at least much more unsure), and then died the following night (surprise, surprise) because he revealed too much (and obviously sort of wanted to die due to RL reasons).

We haven't seen ANY Bubs. If Devin were Bubs and died Night 3, surely we would have seen something. I mean, look at this description: "Bubs' Concession Stand" - Bubs will have a running inventory of items in his concession stand. Each day, players may ask to buy an item and then during the night period Bubs will choose up to three players he wishes to make a deal with. Beware though, his price may be high and you won't have a choice once he agrees to sell to you!

There's no way that role was offed any time after Night 1 or I'm sure we would have been made aware.

Additionally, llama was the one chosen to die last night, again at the hands of Blue Laser. Coincidence? No. They knew he was very likely to be civvie, and even if not, they figured on the off chance he might be Cheerleader, so of course they killed him. Unfortunately for us, I do not think he was Cheerleader.

Thus, players who are trying to spread doubt in my theories are actually trying to create panic and lead to my lynch, or are ignorant. I am not creating any panic, just pointing out observations of things that have actually happened.

I say all of this not to discredit you or Dom, but merely to engage discussion, because that's all the civvies have at their disposal.

Oops, and I just now realized my second to last post before this one should have said Devin knew how he survived dying, but you get my point. It's something I've brought up MULTIPLE TIMES (see, I can use CAPS too), and yet you refuse to acknowledge it, Dom.

Interesting points, BDH. I could see a scenario in which your analysis is correct, so I will consider. I did get a civvie vibe from a few of his responses, but he could be faking, I suppose...

What do you think of me?

(And why am I still here when I should be sleeping?)

Dom, you are absolutely and completely ridiculous.

Have you ignored the topics I brought up where we've seen nothing from Bubs? No one has spoken up regarding that matter. Additionally, no one is being jailed, and as such Coach Z is very likely dead (add in that Devin said he knew how he died... and it makes sense, doesn't it, now?). And I will eat a fucking hat if llama was baddie.

I'm not creating panic, but way to start up suspicions against me again.

Where did I say that's why any of you were suspicious? Answer: I didn't. From a sheer numbers standpoint, it's likely that not all of you could be civvie. That's all I was saying. Besides, am I not allowed to suspect someone just because they've voiced suspicion of me? Because if that's the case, I'm pretty sure I can't suspect ANYONE, because nearly everyone has had at least some opinion on me at some point this game.

Just wow. Your reaction is insane. Not even sure it's baddie, but how you can come in here and say all of that, I just don't get.

Linki with BDH, let me read all of that, thanks for answering.

Thanks, I'll keep those in mind.

What do you think about Trogdor... is it someone inactive or someone taking the incredibly illogical way of handling the role on purpose?

And on that note, I'll leave. I hope others have ideas and feedback because this lynch is a crucial one, I feel.

BDH, I also want to know what you're currently thinking. You've had some interesting observations to make, but you haven't really voiced any suspicions lately... any ideas?

Mongoose wrote:I was leaning toward a Borok vote for Day 6, but I think he suffers more from a self confidence crisis and not baddie guilt, so I'll look elsewhere.

I think I agree, actually. I know Borokkuei... and I'm not sure I'm convinced he's a great place to look anymore. I'm not sure though.

I'm beginning to wonder if there is a baddie lying amongst Dom, timmer, BDH, CBK, etc., but I'm not sure how to snuff one out, and I feel incredibly biased on the matter.

I also feel S~V~S, Vompatti, and other players might be interesting leads, as I mentioned earlier.

We have had five whole day periods, and interestingly, not much discussion has revolved around voting records. There has to be something in those, I would think, but I feel up through this point there have been too many variables to tell, and way too many civvies under main fire. Gleam's lynch yesterday doesn't help the matter, considering if he is baddie, his teammates could have done anything. Analyzing Elohcin's Day 1 lynch has gotten us nowhere good (see: Hedgeowl) as well.

Mongoose, what do you think of BWT and juliets, as well as Dom, timmer, and Snow Dog, out of curiosity?

borokkuei wrote:I thought my observation made sense, but nobody went along with it so I assumed what I said was probably wrong or something.

It's an interesting point, really.

I realize that civvies can just be as illogical as baddies; it's a matter of attempting to interpret whether one believes a person is being sincere or is faking it to achieve sinister motives.

I appreciate your elaborations nonetheless.

You made a very astute observation at that time, and yet you have no opinion of him now... or anyone else for that matter?

I'm just trying to understand, that's all.

borokkuei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

borokkuei wrote:
Not really. All of the players seem neutral to me, which I guess means everyone is playing very well.

That's interesting, considering you made this post two mafia day periods ago:

borokkuei wrote:

Dom wrote:
I never said I wanted to lynch you. I said I wanted to talk about you. I said I found you fishy. I've never voted for you.

But I have to vote now. And I'm voting for you. I am expressing explicit interest in Snow Dog and Lizzy, however.

If you don't want to lynch him but only find him fishy, why would you vote for him now?

If you are expressing explicit interest in Snow Dog and Lizzy, why don't you vote for either of them?

Your words vs actions confuses and pings me.

Interesting indeed.

True, and that still makes me suspicious of you slightly I guess, but I think my logic makes sense on that. But, based on the overall scope of what's been said in the game, I don't have enough on anyone in particular to be confident in saying anyone is civ or bad. I was pinged at the moment, but not entirely convinced. If I actually were convinced, I'd be parading my opinion endlessly like most people do

Woah, what? Why would that make you suspicious of me?

borokkuei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

borokkuei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Now you know! So I find it interesting that you and others are really trying to convince anyone else that llama could have actually been baddie... to me, it either is thread manipulation or its just flat out ignorance... which I can understand, but I and others had a huge discussion on this previously, and it has come up multiple times since then, so IDK. I do realize it has been a lot to read, so I get that.

I am trying to take that into consideration, but you can understand how it could be interpreted that your intentions could possibly be nefarious.

And there is a way to edit posts, but not in this forum, for obvious reasons (someone could edit something they previously said, which would be problematic).

Borokkuei, what do you think of Dom?

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything -- that would be ridiculous considering that I really don't have an opinion on anyone yet other than what other people have been saying. Right now I've gathered that gleam could possibly be the cheerleader, and I do find his survival of the lynch to be odd, but it's also possible that he could be a civ that was protected by another civ, right?

Based on what I've read of Dom's posts, he seems like a pretty cool guy.

That is possible, but very unlikely. Crackotage is the only role that can lynch stop, and I imagine that player would save those for himself (which could be gleam), considering that player only would know with certainty that he is civvie and not anyone else. The only other possibilities are Homestar (unlikely), Homsar, or The Cheerleader.

You don't have any particular game-related thoughts on Dom?

Not really. All of the players seem neutral to me, which I guess means everyone is playing very well.

That's interesting, considering you made this post two mafia day periods ago:

borokkuei wrote:

Dom wrote:
I never said I wanted to lynch you. I said I wanted to talk about you. I said I found you fishy. I've never voted for you.

But I have to vote now. And I'm voting for you. I am expressing explicit interest in Snow Dog and Lizzy, however.

If you don't want to lynch him but only find him fishy, why would you vote for him now?

If you are expressing explicit interest in Snow Dog and Lizzy, why don't you vote for either of them?

Your words vs actions confuses and pings me.

Interesting indeed.

borokkuei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Now you know! So I find it interesting that you and others are really trying to convince anyone else that llama could have actually been baddie... to me, it either is thread manipulation or its just flat out ignorance... which I can understand, but I and others had a huge discussion on this previously, and it has come up multiple times since then, so IDK. I do realize it has been a lot to read, so I get that.

I am trying to take that into consideration, but you can understand how it could be interpreted that your intentions could possibly be nefarious.

And there is a way to edit posts, but not in this forum, for obvious reasons (someone could edit something they previously said, which would be problematic).

Borokkuei, what do you think of Dom?

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything -- that would be ridiculous considering that I really don't have an opinion on anyone yet other than what other people have been saying. Right now I've gathered that gleam could possibly be the cheerleader, and I do find his survival of the lynch to be odd, but it's also possible that he could be a civ that was protected by another civ, right?

Based on what I've read of Dom's posts, he seems like a pretty cool guy.

That is possible, but very unlikely. Crackotage is the only role that can lynch stop, and I imagine that player would save those for himself (which could be gleam), considering that player only would know with certainty that he is civvie and not anyone else. The only other possibilities are Homestar (unlikely), Homsar, or The Cheerleader.

You don't have any particular game-related thoughts on Dom?

thellama73 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote: Borokkuei, what do you think of Dom?

I think he is late with the host post in Into The Woods. And that makes me feel angry!

With all due respect, good sir, I wasn't asking you!

Also, yay for procrastinating and goofing off in a mafia game when I should be being productive.

Now you know! So I find it interesting that you and others are really trying to convince anyone else that llama could have actually been baddie... to me, it either is thread manipulation or its just flat out ignorance... which I can understand, but I and others had a huge discussion on this previously, and it has come up multiple times since then, so IDK. I do realize it has been a lot to read, so I get that.

I am trying to take that into consideration, but you can understand how it could be interpreted that your intentions could possibly be nefarious.

And there is a way to edit posts, but not in this forum, for obvious reasons (someone could edit something they previously said, which would be problematic).

Borokkuei, what do you think of Dom?

Mongoose wrote:Sometimes slip ups too.

I think voting record is more dispositive.

Also, I think you might be bad.

Baddies have been caught in many games for concrete, legitimate reasons. It just isn't always the case... far from it.

I really think he might be bad too, but I'm trying to think it all through. The last thing we need is another civvie lynch right now. It did bother me how he was latching onto Matt F's suspicions clearly, earlier in the game though... and now he refuses to take sides on llama even though he previously expressed he was baddie?

I don't think so. The inconsistencies seem a bit weird to me. There's a difference between civvie inconsistencies and those of a baddie, who doesn't care who he gets lynched as long as it's not himself and his teammates.

Add the fact that he "survived" his kill on Night 2 and his general behavior, I am not feeling too good about him.

Linki with Mongoose: It was on The Piano, which unfortunately is now defunct.

borokkuei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Borokkuei, how could you have had no read on llama whatsoever?

I'm not sure how to answer this really.

I guess, based on the content of his posts, I couldn't decide whether I thought he was good or bad. I feel that way about all of the players, really. How you all make inferences based on the text here is baffling.

I understand, but certainly there are inferences to be made. For example, llama clearly survived a lynch, and there are only certain roles that can do that, only one of which is baddie.

So you had no opinion whatsoever even despite this fact?

Mongoose wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Mongoose wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:indi, I understand completely. Don't worry about it at all. As Mongoose said, hopefully and presumably the game will settle down right about here, and I think it will. I can't believe we've topped the number of posts in Grimm already and we're approaching Avant-Garde 2.

What's the record, MOTU?

Correct. If this game even gets close to that, I'd be incredibly impressed, considering MOTU is by far the longest game I've ever seen hosted (ending at a whopping Night 22).

Is it the longest in terms of sheer number of posts also?

Longest on this site, yes. Longest I've ever seen, no. That would go to Recruitment Mafia: A Call to Arms, which was my second mafia game ever and still probably my all-time favorite (or at least up there), and I'm pretty sure that one was somewhere in the vicinity of 9,200 posts.

Mongoose wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:indi, I understand completely. Don't worry about it at all. As Mongoose said, hopefully and presumably the game will settle down right about here, and I think it will. I can't believe we've topped the number of posts in Grimm already and we're approaching Avant-Garde 2.

What's the record, MOTU?

Correct. If this game even gets close to that, I'd be incredibly impressed, considering MOTU is by far the longest game I've ever seen hosted (ending at a whopping Night 22).

indi, I understand completely. Don't worry about it at all. As Mongoose said, hopefully and presumably the game will settle down right about here, and I think it will. I can't believe we've topped the number of posts in Grimm already and we're approaching Avant-Garde 2.

With 21 players left and assuming the 3 players that have died are civvie... this means we're looking at Trogdor, 4 Blue Laser, and 3 Teen Girl Squad members still alive, and thus leaving behind 13 civvies.

That's sort of disheartening. Especially since I believe it to be true. It is imperative we catch a baddie today.

Timmer, I am curious as to how much further you've gotten in your catch up, and what you are currently thinking. I also want to hear from everyone who suspects me heavily to see if they still do so, and why.

Additionally I want to see if LT and indi have made any progress; what are their thoughts? I suspected bea just a bit before she left (or really, just had NO idea about her, but she made me wonder a few times) and I felt pretty good about Matt F.

Gotta go, be around later.

And as to Trogdor, there are only two explanations. Either that player is specifically withholding their night power, which makes no logical sense when you are an SK LMS role, or the player has been absent.

I do agree it's incredibly strange S~V~S has been gone for so long. I know she was having internet issues, but I'm pretty sure those have been solved.

As to who I think we need to look at, I find it interesting Strongsad mentions Vompatti. I might agree. Not sure. My eyes are currently most heavily on borokkuei, gleam (though I'm obviously not voting for him and don't think we should), and S~V~S, I think. I really want input from other players here though because I have a busy week and won't really have time to do any reading of previous posts -- and I still am not feeling too sure about any particular direction strongly. I do think gleam is baddie though, but not positive on that front.

FWIW, I actually read DP's response yesterday as civvie DP, so I'm a bit hesitant on that for now, but I could be wrong. I've been wrong about him before. How did others take this? Likewise, despite lumping Leamiteo in with Borokkuei previously in the "I have no idea about these players and am thus wary of them" category, I think I'm much more leaning towards the possibility of Borokkuei being baddie of the two. Leamiteo doesn't seem particularly baddie. I am completely undecided on CBK.

As to timmer, Dom, BDH, etc., I can't make up my mind at all here. I am willing to admit I might have just been totally wrong and was feeling persecuted because I know for a fact I was a civvie and felt llama was strongly so. Thoughts are welcome.

I keep wanting to examine BWT because I feel he has been insanely blendy but most players are refusing to give input about him. I can't read him for shit though, which is why I really want the other opinions. What do people think?

Also, I'll be willing to address any concerns anyone has about me, but I will try to be rational and reasonable with them and not overreact. I just am so incredibly heavily invested in this game and I'd really rather not be lynched, and have elaborated on my thoughts regarding the matter previously. That said, I feel the day or so break from conversation revolving around me was nice.

Son of a BITCH. RIP llama. I am absolutely certain now that you were civvie.

Mongoose, interesting thoughts. However, I had someone else pegged as Coach Z. Think about how Devin said he knew he would survive one night and was dead the next. I'm pretty sure Devin was protecting and had not been able to jail until dead. Bubs has shown NO activity whatsoever and Devin gave me no reason to believe he was Bubs instead of Coach Z. That's just my take on the matter though.

Borokkuei, how could you have had no read on llama whatsoever?

Gleam, how was Trogdor killed? I don't think so. He is definitely still alive.

I find it very interesting Blue Laser has killed Devin and now llama, both players who I came to increasingly vouch as civvie more than anyone else. Apparently, Blue Laser is onto something.

One other thought before I do a thing or two and then go to bed...

Does anyone have reason to believe borokkuei is civvie? Additionally, what do players think of his accidental death on night 2? It seems daisy killed him due to host error. While it may be unfair to speculate, since she does not appear to be showing other failed kill attempts on purpose anyway, could this mean that borokkuei is a member of blue laser, or perhaps even the cheat? Just curious, since I am really unsure of what to make of him. He has said more than a few statements throughout the game that have been gross inaccuracies... And while I could see a Baddie or civvie being confused or faking confused, I want other input on this matter.

That is all I have to say for now.

Mongoose wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Leamiteo, I meant to ask, why do you think CBK is civvie?

borokkuei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Also did borokkuei ever post explaining is vote??? I don't remember seeing it but maybe I overlooked it

Sorry I didn't really.

My vote was mostly a vote, and by the looks of the poll it seemed that my vote wasn't going to cause you to be lynched anyway. I'm mostly just pinged by your giant highly-engaged posts, but still that's the only ping I've got from anyone really. Matt F seemed really eccentric to the point where I'd possibly consider him sociopathic and thus potentially a mafia, but it's hard to tell really.

I see. Well thanks for elaborating sir!!

Don't be afraid to talk, MP - do you have any thoughts on the failed lynch attempt today?

I am leaning towards it being explained by the theory that gleam is the cheerleader, as his behavior and suspicions/voting record seem to probably indicate, combined with the way the vote went down, but it could be a result of a few other scenarios as well. Trying to look at everything from every possible perspective... But at the same time, we really need to start nabbing more baddies.

Has anyone else noticed that we are now at night 5 and there do not appear to be any signs of Bubs?? This leads me to believe Kate very well could have been that role. Has anyone had any interaction to prove to the contrary?

This makes me believe that those pushing that Trogdor was dead really were stretching, big time. Trogdor is definitely alive. I have trouble believing devin was him.

Leamiteo, I meant to ask, why do you think CBK is civvie?

borokkuei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Also did borokkuei ever post explaining is vote??? I don't remember seeing it but maybe I overlooked it

Sorry I didn't really.

My vote was mostly a vote, and by the looks of the poll it seemed that my vote wasn't going to cause you to be lynched anyway. I'm mostly just pinged by your giant highly-engaged posts, but still that's the only ping I've got from anyone really. Matt F seemed really eccentric to the point where I'd possibly consider him sociopathic and thus potentially a mafia, but it's hard to tell really.

I see. Well thanks for elaborating sir!!

Also did borokkuei ever post explaining is vote??? I don't remember seeing it but maybe I overlooked it

thellama73 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote: Based on the way it all went down and his behavior and suspicions, I would guess he is the cheerleader. But even if he is there is o point in voting him any further for now and there is the chance he could be a civvie, even if I don't necessarily believe it to be true.

This is exactly how I feel. No point in voting for Gleam until the rest of the Girl Squad is dealt with. But it is good to have him marked as a Cheerleader candidate for later, anyway.

I agree. Now the question is where to go from here...

I will be pretty busy this week but will definitely think about this before next lynch. I want to try and evaluate everything as fairly as possible without my previous instances of logical fallacies, but I feel things are till very much in the air right now. It is almost Pointless to analyze gleam bc his team could have defended him blatantly or completely thrown him nder the bus or somethingg n between, assuming he even is the cheerleader. but we do have 5 days of actions from players so you ould think that would be something to base analyses off of. Curious what others come up with as well, the next day period should be interesting.

Wow very interesting result. Timmer don't forget that gleam could also be Crackotage. But other than that those are all the options.

Based on the way it all went down and his behavior and suspicions, I would guess he is the cheerleader. But even if he is there is o point in voting him any further for now and there is the chance he could be a civvie, even if I don't necessarily believe it to be true.

Also bye Bea ad Matt f and welcome LT and indiglo!!!!!

I unexpectedly have a lunch meeting today so I don't have time to post, voting gleam because I agree that pinning llama as a proven unlynchable role makes no sense and he does seem a bit cornered... I really, really hope he's not a civvie.

A Person wrote:I've not been a baddie yet.

Also, what did you think of my question earlier regarding the failed kill and who you might suspect, if anyone? I'd really appreciate an answer.

Gotta go.

thellama73 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Ugh, I know I said I would try to stay back a lot this period, but I am taking a really short break from studying and want to really emphasize one thing -- I think a lynch of AP would be really unwise. I still don't get the suspicion at all; his behavior doesn't make sense if he was a baddie at all. It's just normal AP. I have a hard time believing he'll come up baddie or Trogdor. My two cents on the matter.

Carry on.

If this is normal AP, what is baddie AP like?

I have no idea, but I have a very hard time believing this is it. There's no way he'd put himself out there like this and say many of the things he did; his teammates would have warned against it. Also, the way votes and suspicion have followed him... I'm just not buying it to be as a result of him being nefarious.

I don't think I'm wrong on the issue, but again, just my evaluation of his actions. They may seem illogical to you or me, but I've interacted with AP for a long time, and I just can't see how this is his baddie game.

I'm still far from sure where I'll be voting, but it definitely won't be for AP.

What did people think of what DP had to say?

Leaving now to study more, then spend time with my brother, and then watch Breaking Bad. Will be around tomorrow. Sorry for breaking my rule TWICE, but I couldn't help expressing at least some of my current thoughts. I'm trying to play less of a controlling/domineering role, but at the same time I really don't want to see us lynch another civvie, and I think AP seems more likely to be one than nearly everyone else at this point.

Linki with Snowie: Point well taken. We don't know that, BUT I really do think it would be strange for him to be a baddie here with the way everything has gone down. I don't understand that logic; by that logic, you could argue anyone is baddie because they're acting like themselves. I truly believe AP has done nothing that would lead me to believe he is baddie. I really think all of the major vote receivers this game have been civvies; I have firm reason to believe this to be true. The only two I'm really unsure of in that regard are BDH and Vomps, I'm really unsure of them.

Ugh, I know I said I would try to stay back a lot this period, but I am taking a really short break from studying and want to really emphasize one thing -- I think a lynch of AP would be really unwise. I still don't get the suspicion at all; his behavior doesn't make sense if he was a baddie at all. It's just normal AP. I have a hard time believing he'll come up baddie or Trogdor. My two cents on the matter.

Carry on.

Only here to post once (I know, technically breaking my proclamation, sorry), and then will be back at lunch tomorrow to post once and vote.

Matt F, don’t sweat it. We all make mistakes from time to time. It happens. It’s mafia. I hope you don’t continue to be too hard on yourself and please come back to play with us. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I know I’ve really enjoyed playing with you this game, as always.

I don’t know about anyone else, but even though my life has been pretty crazy, I have enjoyed the hell out of this game. As someone who has hosted multiple times, I know how insanely time consuming and difficult it is to host a mafia game, and sometimes it can be easy to feel unappreciated, so I just want to say I’ve been enjoying this game SO much, and I want to give a thanks to Daisy for hosting it. I try to express this sentiment every time I play a game because I know just how much effort goes into hosting a game, but sometimes it’s very easy to let it go unsaid. Considering things have seemed a bit frustrating given Matt F’s post and the lack of PMs, and just how insanely intense this game has been from a posting standpoint (I take most of the blame for this), I just wanted to put this out there, because in the end this is a game, designed to be fun, and nothing to be taken way too seriously so as to impede that. I know stepping back for a day or so has really helped me realize that I was perhaps seeming a bit too intense, so I thought this was worth noting. Likewise to everyone else who is playing, thanks for playing, because it’s been really great getting to play with all of you!

And thanks, timmer, I didn’t intend on sounding frazzled or anything, it’s just been a bit hectic as of late, lol. Nothing I can’t handle though! And still mostly pretty good, so no complaints on my end.

BWT, I don’t think looking at AP so strongly because he is being illogical equates to him being a baddie. This still seems like normal AP behavior to me. I realize it’s not what you or I or most people would do, but I’m afraid I’m still not getting the suspicion on him at all. Can you elaborate as to how it makes him different than normal and/or baddie?

CBK, very good question. I do think it’s interesting Teen Girl Squad didn’t kill, but there are many variables that could have caused that situation. It’s possible the killer was blocked or that the person who was supposed to die was either protected or is non-NKable (see: Blue Laser, or even The Cheat). Part of the problem in analyzing this is that it seems Daisy isn’t providing evidence on failed kills in her night posts, so we don’t know if they failed to send in a PM or if someone survived a kill, and if someone did survive, we don’t know who that person is. What are you thinking? And if you feel unsure about going after lower participants, do you feel we have any other leads that are more worthwhile in your eyes? As to how you're being blendy, I can elaborate on that in a future period (trying to keep my presence low on the intensity level this cycle), but for now I'm giving you the BOTD since I understand your condition and I know you're really trying to get into this game.

AP, same question to you. I can’t remember the last post you had regarding anyone as suspicious; what are your current thoughts? And what do you particularly think about the fact that the kill failed last night; what’s your take on that?

Dom, any reason why Snow Dog and Vomps?

As to gleam or DP or whoever else, those are all interesting considerations. I’ll stop here and get to studying and mull on this for the next 24 hours.

And naturally as to Dom, timmer, myself, etc., I’ll get back to you guys on this. But I still think I should just leave this thoughts here and get out of here until it is time to vote. We can continue whatever we feel we need to regarding me or whatever the following cycle. I understand if you feel you still want to vote for me and I've said what I need to on the matter, more than I need to for that matter.

Okay, here's the deal. I'm here to make my comments and then I will leave. I will be back to vote, but I think it is best for my sanity (and my schedule), for the thread's sanity (and more importantly for the civvies) for me to go to away for a bit.

Wow, RIP no one. Very odd. I think it's very clear, especially since Daisy seems frustrated, that Trgodor clearly isn't sending in his PMs, and that even Teen Girl Squad's remaining members might be doing the same... not sure about that, but certainly the former is true.

I actually think Trogdor is NOT dead because the only two NKed are Kate and Devin. Kate cannot be Trogdor as Trogdor "killed" Night 2 and I have firm reason to believe Devin was not Trogdor, as I have stated. Even if I did not have that conclusion, I think Devin's actions would make absolutely no sense for an SK role. Even throwing both of those away, the chances of Devin being that particular role when there are currently over 20 players that could just as easily been randomly assigned that role is mathematically unlikely.

I also have thought about A Person more and more, and it really makes no sense for him to be baddie or Trogdor. I don't think we should vote for him today and I won't be voting for him. The more I've thought about it, I think he sincerely saw a civvie Lizzy and has been contributing all of his thoughts as he would normally... I still see nothing indicating he is particularly baddie, even if he has said some unconventional (but normal for him, and that's the key) things. I won't vote for him today.

Consequently, I think we need to look at the low and medium participators who have been really blendy. Borokkuei immediately comes to mind. I think gleam, CBK, and Leamiteo are others. However, I strongly think the DP being Trogdor theory might really hold some serious water. Regardless, I'm willing to give all of these players the BOTD and to contribute, but now considering it's Day 5, I think if DP doesn't come around I'll be heavily considering voting for him. If not, probably gleam, borrokuei, or CBK because they've been really blendy and illogical. BWT is a medium-high participant who has seemed blendy to me as well. Those are just my thoughts though.

Another thought, something to think about: S~V~S has been gone recently as well. Not sure how that factors in here, but it's something to think about. I don't think it means anything right now, but it could later. I want to hear from her too nonetheless.

I'm shelving timmer and Dom for the time being because I'm trying to be open-minded. I realize I've been domineering the thread and that I seem really controlling, maybe even contradictory. Thus, I am leaving this game and will be back to vote, but I think it will definitely be better this way, at least for this cycle. I can at least recognize that.

One last thing: Daisy, can a team send a kill on behalf of their team or does the player who has the kill role have to send it in?

Now I'll be back to vote and post once more this cycle, and that will be it. Curious to see what results while I'm gone.

OK, just ate breakfast, going to start my practice GMAT right after I post this, then have to study more, then have plans, etc. Tomorrow I also really need to study, but will be able to post at some point. I didn't intend on coming back this morning, but I'm an addict and read the two posts, and i have just two more things to say, and then I really don't have time AND I want to step away anyway because this is so counterproductive to the civvie cause to continue to focus on me (agreed with you, bea, that's exactly what's happening) and so fucking tiring (seriously, can anyone understand how exhausting this is for me? Especially after so many games where I have to do this CONSTANTLY?):

1. Dom, I'm not asking ANYONE to trust me. I never have. I'm asking you to re-consider and try to have an open mind.

2. bea, just on your topic of RL. I understand this. But how can anyone crusade against me like this? Multiple people ahve said this doesn't seem like MP or whatever -- has anyone considered everything that's going on in my life right now may have had at least some impact on that, really? or that the fact that I'm totally on my own and everything I am saying could be totally what's going on to actually be a consideration?

It bothers me so DAMN much that there are players who refuse to consider these things. I am notorious for my tunnel vision and even I eventually sat back and took a step back from my llama argument to realize it was all based on just INTERPRETATIONS. Just like everything that's been said about me. It completely wreaks of either insanely closed-minded civvie or a determined baddie to me.

Linki with bea and Mongoose, not responding, really have to go

I have nothing else to say. If someone wants to actually give me something to defend against, fine. But I've posted so freaking much on this matter and so many others, and I have a busy weekend, so unless anything new comes up, I'm done. I've already addressed the train of thought behind why it seems I may be making NO U's, or why it seems I may be all over the place (I'm not suspecting everyone, I truly have no idea on most people and trying to get discussion out, I've said this), I already explained multiple times why I was gunning after llama and then I dropped it, and why I did what I did on Day 0, and I don't know what else to say.

I feel like talk about me has been taking up this thread so much and it's distracting from other conversation. Lynching me will seriously accomplish NOTHING. Anyone who thinks I'm baddie, please just take a step back, consider that you may be wrong, and re-read my posts, especially the four I made yesterday before I thought I was going to die, with a fresh mind. If that doesn't convince you, I don't know waht else to do. But I'm just feeling really crushed. I am constantly torn between just letting myself be lynched and my intentions revealed so that it can give the civvies so much more information and help my cause, and trying to stay alive as much as possible because I am a civvie and want to help and being alive helps so much, if not in that regard but beyond that as well. I've said this before. It could indicate something. PLEASE consider all of the facts. I will eat a fucking hat if Devin was bad. I really will. I'm getting to that point with llama as well. If you look at my posts with a fresh mind and still don't understand, consider how that could be the case. I have nothing else I can even put into my efforts this game.

I am going to be really busy this weekend so in addition to my feelings above I feel I need to take a step back from this thread and let others contribute for a while. But it sucks because while I feel that, others are relentlessly attacking me and I have to defend myself from being railroaded. But now I've said everything I need to say, even multiple times. Those people who keep pushing uncertainty about Devin being civvie are either clueless or baddies trying to push lies. Please re-read his posts. He said he knew he would survive a particular night. THink about his actions. He couldn't have made it any more clear IMO and yet people are ignoring this or something.

In summary, read my last four posts from yesterday with a fresh mind. I'm done on the matter. I am super busy today. I'll be back tomorrow.

This is in response to Dom, but also everyone else who is crusading that I am bad, because I just don't have the time nor the desire to address all of you separately when this should suffice:

Dom wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote: Linki with Dom: You're wrong, that's why you should NOT continue voting for me. The fact that you refuse to even consider you're wrong is continually bothersome. I've been in defensive mode ALL GAME and you still have not even explained why other than just that I'm apparently NO U'ing and whatever. You also never responded to my questions in an earlier post asking you how your assessment was fair.

"You shouldn't vote me because I'm civvie!"

That's what you're saying.

I HAVE explained. I have said that it's strange that you won't address real questions to you (see Juliets who asked why it's okay for you to build a bullshit case on llama but not for timmer to suspect you). I think you're lashing out at people who question your motives rather than explain them and just assume that everyone thinks you're civvie. I explained this earlier, but you all but ignored it and said, "I'm not NO-Uing you might be bad"

This is not the MP I know.


Also, my wifi went down while catching up last time, so if I missed a post by you, please let me know.

I'm sorry, I can't explain my intentions any more than I already have. They just are what they are. Yes, I came up with that huge case on llama and I thought he was bad. Then I changed my mind. I'm allowed to change my mind. I was being very narrow-minded. I realize I'm lashing out at you and timmer, but understand it from my point of view; it feels like players have been relentlessly attacking me all game, and this has happened game after game after game, and I just don't know what to say to it. I sincerely believe that the baddies would really want me dead, so it's coloring my viewpoint of players that continuously gun after me, without considering that I could even be civvie. Yes, for the longest time, I gunned after llama and didn't consider him to be civvie. I screwed up. I realize anyone going after me could do the same thing. But consider this...

This is all I really know:
- I am a civvie
- I am pretty damn positive Devin and llama are both civvies

And that's it. So to me, anyone who refuses to recognize any of those facts could be someone who knows exactly what I'm talking about and yet refuses to acknowledge it because they want me gone. It's really hard to get that train of thought out of my mind when evaluating your and timmer's and other player's intentions. Because to me, all you guys are doing is not helping at all, you're just relentlessly attacking me and you're not helping us sort out baddies. I realize if you actually are civvie it doesn't seem that way to you at all, but I know my own alignment and role. I don't know yours and timmer's. I believe I've even set up the circumstances so that someone could deduce my role. I didn't want to do it, but I believe it's possible for someone to do so. Regardless of that, which is possibly remote but it is out there, but I've laid myself out there COMPLETELY. My intentions are just so out there in all of my posts. There's nothing else I could give in this game. Devin was absolutely spot on with his evaluation of me in every regard and no one seems to consider that at all. That's why it bothers me even more there are still certain players that just won't consider that I'm civvie here and that I'm just really lost.

It's very possible it's not the MP you know. I've felt like a lost soul all game. I really don't know what's going on.

CBK, you're just so freaking wrong. They are not contradictions. Maybe they look like they are, but they aren't. See above. I even said in the heat of the moment I really felt there have been baddie pushes to get me lynched just to make my intentions seem contradictory and uncivvie. They are not though. I don't know what else to say.

And timmer, same to you. I even specified to juliets that I actually suspected you FIRST, not the other way around. It's not a NO U. But I have to say the fact that you just came in here and started gunning after me after you defended me struck me as really weird.

Can't any of you understand and attempt to see this from my point of view? Just take a step back and realize in some set of circumstances that I could be civvie. How else am I supposed to act here? I just am being constantly crushed by this boulder of accusations that I really can't even defend against and it's really tiring and frustrating.

I'm sorry, I just don't know what else to say to yours and timmer's and other player's posts about me. I feel I've addressed them adequately. It's all interpretations of my actions.