The Syndicate

Golden wrote:MVP - SVS
Role Play - G-Man

Well deserved.

Well played, mafia team.

FUCK, I knew there was a reason S~V~S was phoning it in this period. Dammit. My ISO was so wrong.

Sorry, guys, I totally blew this one.

It was fun though, Golden, thanks for subbing me in.

Epignosis wrote:Sorsha hasn't voted and everyone has piled onto her except Dom.

That's worth talking about.

Yeah, that's true.

And if you're bad?

Well this was a disappointing day period, save for speedchuck's contributions.

I don't know what I can even do at this point other than hope it's Sorsha.

I don't like like this at all. Maybe it is Epi and SVS.

Switching to Sorsha for now.

Last minute change in today's plans:

I'm going to be out of town. I'll be around to phone post but it won't be much. Apologies in advance but I'll still contribute as much as possible.

Actually, just returned for a second to request of everyone:

Please make it a priority to discuss your thoughts on each player and analyze their behavior through the lens of "if they are bad" and "if they are good". Then publicly share those with the rest of us.

That will make sure that everyone is assessing everyone else from both angles and we can go from there. I'll run through mine when I return.

I'll be back later myself, can't spend all day here. But I should be around for at least a solid few hours off and on before EoD. Please come in and throw thoughts into the thread, you all, as much as you can think of.

speedchuck wrote:Holdup, let me grab your combo list and debate internally and sweat

Lol, I can relate; even though I was busy all day yesterday, I've been slowly going insane thinking about all of this on the back of my mind.

Has anyone else had the thought that Epi and S~V~S could be teammates?

Let me elaborate. Epi's case of S~V~S on D3 was pretty out of nowhere, only ending with this scenario where both of them are clearing each other pretty hard. And frankly I feel like it's even a leap considering them together. But perhaps that's what was intended?

Cool, thanks speedchuck.

What are you currently thinking with all the combinations left, from least to most likely?

S~V~S wrote:You're confirmed, and I would be shocked if Epi is bad based totally on how he reacted to me the other day. His points about how Dom posted during the Faraday kerfuffle make sense.

No hyperventilating.

I just think we need to be careful before clearing anyone too quickly. Except for me of course.

But your points are fair. I was seeing how Epi would respond with my earlier string of posts for a similar reason, since I wasn't around when you and he were going at it in real time and only read it after the fact, so I wanted to see how I could interact with him in real time. I'm given some pause. I think he seemed honest in that exchange.

But I'm not about to let that make everything too easy here. Clearing someone for too quick/easy a reason could backfire.

This is now the second game this year I've replaced into and then had to deal with a critical stage in the game, so I'm freaking out. But you all should be as well. I don't want to blow this all for you and none of you should want to either.

S~V~S wrote:
speedchuck wrote:I'm new here. Are false flips (someone flipping as vanilla town, then actually being mafia, or some mod bastardry like that) common? Because where I come from, there would be an uproar if Quin/MP was scum after that flip. People would be literally angry, because of what they expect from a game.

But we've already had someone survive a lynch, so... I don't know what is considered mod bastardry on this forum. Please do fill me in, because I don't know what to expect.

linki: I'll answer that in a sec
I would not expect it in a Heist. It would be overkill, these games are supposed to be simple basic games.

And I will be here full time this afternoon post work, MP. Deep cleansing breaths.

Fair enough, just need to know what's going on inside that head of yours. And I WILL HYPERVENTILATE IF I WANT TO, DAMMIT.

That said, anything is possible in games around here, especially Jobs. I personally think that kind of role would be bastard in any setup, but for a Heist like this it would be ridiculously so.

So you don't have to worry about little old me.

speedchuck wrote:I'm new here. Are false flips (someone flipping as vanilla town, then actually being mafia, or some mod bastardry like that) common? Because where I come from, there would be an uproar if Quin/MP was scum after that flip. People would be literally angry, because of what they expect from a game.

But we've already had someone survive a lynch, so... I don't know what is considered mod bastardry on this forum. Please do fill me in, because I don't know what to expect.

linki: I'll answer that in a sec

There would be an uproar here as well; I would consider that bastard and I would be angry if that happened and it was one of you all.

S~V~S and Sorsha really need to get in here. I'd like to hear more from Dom about what he's thinking too even though he feels out of the loop. If we want to win this game, this has to be a talkative period.

speedchuck wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:speedchuck, thanks, I got that. I guess what I'm missing is what specifically in Llama's posts or behavior led you to your strong opinion that he was town. Can you elaborate on that?
Just went through the ISO. Yeah, it's mostly what I said a bit ago. His reaction to pressure, his willingness to immediately buddy someone (doesn't speak to someone who cares too much about appearances), and my gut feeling based on his posts. I mean seriously, scan over his ISO, it's easier than me posting stuff here. I can't see that level of flippant, yet earnest action coming from a scum at the top of the D1 lynch pile. Unflappable.

Besides, I felt like I called attention to his vote by throwing another one on there, and was feeling a bit guilty about getting this guy that I figured was a townie lynched.

That all makes sense, thanks.

Another question: if you were trying to find an anyone-but-Llama option, why did you choose DF and why did you initiate that option? Seems to me you could have latched onto someone else's option that wasn't you or Llama, but you were the first to vote for DF.

I'm just still trying to figure everything out, that's all.

Epi, do you worry that you're giving too much re: S~V~S and Dom for the reasons you're clearing them?

If the combination ends up being Dom and Sorsha, I'm going to lose it.

speedchuck, thanks, I got that. I guess what I'm missing is what specifically in Llama's posts or behavior led you to your strong opinion that he was town. Can you elaborate on that?

Epi, can you walk me through your thought process a bit more on your voting history? I can read what you've thrown down, but I'm not sure I understand the progression.

If you don't think S~V~S or Dom is mafia either, why offer it to me?

Epignosis wrote:You are not confirmed, but given the ratio of previous installments (two civilian power roles vs. one mafia power role), I'd say it's highly unlikely you are bad.

Oh, was my alignment not confirmed when Quin's first role card flipped? I didn't even check, I just assumed it was.

Epignosis wrote:I tell you what, MP.

For better or worse, I'll do the same thing I did with G-Man. I don't think you are mafia, and I know I'm not, so this is a safe(r) approach. I will put my vote wherever you do (provided of course it's not on me). That makes your vote worth two. And if we're wrong today

Spoiler: show

Why would you do this?

Also how can you not think I'm mafia? Am I not confirmed?

I'm switching to speedchuck.

speedchuck wrote:Right, so I'll keep my defense short and then get to rereading Epi.

My defense is nothing. I had a really crappy first 3.5 days. Not gonna go and appeal to RL reasons or anything. I've barely read days 2 and 3, day one was a pile of roleplay meaninglessness, and I simply popped into the thread occasionally and popped some immediate gut reads based on the last 10/20 posts. Perhaps it was worse than useless. I've got no defense for it. Good luck pulling an actual agenda out of it, though.

Thought process on votes is likewise terrible.
D1: Had a strong feeling Llama was town. Voted on the train that wasn't him. Felt kinda guilty for pulling attention to him, even.
D2: Barely popped in. Between NotSawyer and Nutella? An easy choice.
D3: I honestly popped a vote on Quin (now you) to see if it would work. I thought the mod might change the poll. Unfortunately, I wasn't around at dayend to change it. No excuses. It's crap.
D4: Based on your role-flip, game suspicions, and DF's survival, I was positive they were scum. Anything that allows a player to survive two lynches in a game, in any way, would be broken. That lynch should have been guaranteed. Crazy (to me) that I even got close to rivaling it.

D1 and D4 should give pause to me being aligned with DF, if only slightly, but you can work through that. You can also look at my vanilla town meta, vs my non-town meta, if that helps. Really though, neither applies.
I've had a crappy few days. I'm gonna try and step my game up so I don't lose it for you guys.

I'm still struggling with your thought process on D1, speedchuck. What gave you a strong feeling about Llama being town? I don't see it in your posts.

speedchuck wrote:MP, you've got a rather strong suspicion of Epi going on. Is any of that due to metaread? If so, could you explain?
In more certain terms, is avoiding the definitely-scum-DF lynch and trying to find a different scummate instead of DF at friggin MYLO something Epi would be prone to do?

Sorry, I forgot to answer this. I wouldn't say any of it is due to a metaread; Epi is one of the hardest players to metaread. I'm just going based off of what I perceive Epi's actions to be in this game.

And anything is what Epi could be prone to do; he'll do anything. So I prefer not to read into that chunk of WIFOM and instead take it at face value.

Epignosis wrote:I'm done engaging with you. You've made up your mind. You're wrong. If you are a civilian, you will lose (again) in Lost (again).

I haven't made up my mind; I'm still considering everyone. You just look the worst, and I have to decide whether that's because you're actually bad or not, and so I'm trying to do that.

In no universe does it make sense to lynch the unknown entity over someone you actively think is bad at this stage in the game.

If you're really not bad, then why don't you give a fuck to lynch the one person you said you think is bad, i.e., speedchuck?

Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:This is just like what you did earlier when you argued with G-Man, who was confirmed fucking town I might add, for seemingly no reason to sort anyone out. You keep pushing back against me using emotional manipulative statements saying "you're going to lose it all for town hurrr de durrr". That's scummy ass behavior.
I don't care what behavior it is. You come in here all high and mighty and want to lynch me over someone with 19 posts?

Fuck out of here.

Yes, I do, because I've pointed out PLENTY of interpretations of your posts and behavior that make you seem real damn bad. Sorsha doesn't have that. She's a player just like everyone else; if she has just 19 posts, then she has just 19 posts. They have content in them too to be analyzed.

You just can't stand the fact that I find you more suspicious than someone who didn't play the game. Get over it. You're suspicious.

Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Seriously Epi, stop preemptively blaming me. You're being a real something right now and it's pissing me off.
Then lay off me and lynch somebody who is bad. Don't call my game "ass" when you are sucking ass right now yourself coming for me.

THEN STOP BLAMING ME FOR EVERYTHING. I've come in here and was nice enough to replace. I performed all of that work trying to sort everyone out. You're not even doing anything. Your game is ass and has been all game. Deal with it.

I cannot fathom any member of the town just going "ehhh whatever, I don't care, I just don't want to lose to the inactive scum" at this point in the game. Not even Epi.

This is just like what you did earlier when you argued with G-Man, who was confirmed fucking town I might add, for seemingly no reason to sort anyone out. You keep pushing back against me using emotional manipulative statements saying "you're going to lose it all for town hurrr de durrr". That's scummy ass behavior.

Seriously Epi, stop preemptively blaming me. You're being a real something right now and it's pissing me off.

Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I gave a full ISO of Sorsha on the other page. I analyzed her voting history. There's enough there to at least try to analyze here, and I don't think she's bad. But if she is bad, we can figure it out after we lynch someone else who's been more involved. Fuck this voting inactives shit. That's a cop-out right now, Epi, and it's so indicative of your entire attitude all game: You've gone after everyone when it was convenient to do so. You're not going after anyone with an attempt to sort them.

You're bad. Let's lynch Epi NOW.
Took all of two minutes, didn't it?
It doesn't matter how long it took me.

If you wanted to crusade against inactives, you should have done it before a critical LYLO stage in the game.
It's not a crusade against inactives. There's one inactive. If you vote me out, and Sorsha is bad, you have handed the win to somebody who didn't even friggin play. That's going to be on you.

You going to eat a hat if you're wrong again?

It's not on me, there you go with the emotional manipulation again. It's on you for playing like ass all game. At least I'm trying.

Explain to me, Epi, how it makes sense to go with a shot in the dark with Sorsha then (since you seem to think that's what she is) OVER the person you just said above "I think you're bad, but you're talking, so whatever".

Bullshit.

Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I gave a full ISO of Sorsha on the other page. I analyzed her voting history. There's enough there to at least try to analyze here, and I don't think she's bad. But if she is bad, we can figure it out after we lynch someone else who's been more involved. Fuck this voting inactives shit. That's a cop-out right now, Epi, and it's so indicative of your entire attitude all game: You've gone after everyone when it was convenient to do so. You're not going after anyone with an attempt to sort them.

You're bad. Let's lynch Epi NOW.
Took all of two minutes, didn't it?

It doesn't matter how long it took me.

If you wanted to crusade against inactives, you should have done it before a critical LYLO stage in the game.

Epignosis wrote:
speedchuck wrote:
Epignosis wrote:In the meantime, speedchuck- why are you voting me when your belief is that Sorsha is bad too and I'm throwing her under the bus?
If I vote sorsha, and she does happen to be your scummate:
Sorsha dies.
MP dies.

You easily glide to a speedchuck lynch without MP here.
Town loses.

It's also quite possible, as per your defense and MP's scumreads, that I'm wrong about Dom, that he is your teammate, and you are defending him.
Basically, I consider the Epi/Sorsha and Epi/Dom worlds to be more likely than the Sorsha/Dom. I think. I'm still prone to switching.
Again, I like you because you are talking.

Let's not vote each other. I'm not bad. I think you are, but I'm willing to lynch someone else before you.

If you aren't bad, then it would make sense to consider someone other than me.

This is not town-motivated thinking at all.

I gave a full ISO of Sorsha on the other page. I analyzed her voting history. There's enough there to at least try to analyze here, and I don't think she's bad. But if she is bad, we can figure it out after we lynch someone else who's been more involved. Fuck this voting inactives shit. That's a cop-out right now, Epi, and it's so indicative of your entire attitude all game: You've gone after everyone when it was convenient to do so. You're not going after anyone with an attempt to sort them.

You're bad. Let's lynch Epi NOW.

Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I also don't trust any of you all as far as I can throw you, but I don't think lynching the less-than-active Dom or Sorsha is the way to go. I see nothing in Sorsha's post history that seems that scummy, and I don't like how speedchuck is behaving this phase.

I'm considering all of you, but I still think it's Epi and speedchuck. Just look at the way they've interacted with DF and each other all game.
The object of the game for mafia is to not "seem scummy." She doesn't have anything that "seems scummy" because she doesn't have anything.

You are so fucking bad.

Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Epignosis clearly doesn't give a fuck who goes as long as it's not him. He's not town.
Congrats on the loss.

Seriously, quit it with the emotional manipulation. Another reason I think you're bad.

That said, I feel less comfortable with my suspicion of speedchuck. I feel pretty damn sure Epi is bad news.

Epignosis wrote:Frankly, if you're bad speed, I'm cool with you winning. Sorsha and Dom aren't doing shit. It'll be yet another mark on The Syndicate where civilians do absolutely nothing and lose for other people.

Hopefully they're bad though.

No member of the town would ever say this. If you're invested in your team's win, you realize that if other players aren't playing then that's just an obstacle you have to overcome and sort those players to the best of your ability, just like anyone else. You wouldn't ever be "OK" with someone else winning just because town may have two inactive members.

If I've only been in this game for a cycle and I already feel invested enough to want to work really hard to win this game for town.

I also find the post to be TMI. It reads as if Epi knows that Dom and Sorsha are town. speedchuck had a similar TMI post that I pointed out in his ISO regarding notsawyer and nutella.

All of that said, I wish S~V~S would get her head in this game, because her lackluster performance this Day has me tinfoiling her hard.

I also don't trust any of you all as far as I can throw you, but I don't think lynching the less-than-active Dom or Sorsha is the way to go. I see nothing in Sorsha's post history that seems that scummy, and I don't like how speedchuck is behaving this phase.

I'm considering all of you, but I still think it's Epi and speedchuck. Just look at the way they've interacted with DF and each other all game.

Epignosis clearly doesn't give a fuck who goes as long as it's not him. He's not town.

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