The Syndicate

This was a really fun game! Thanks so much to MM for rezzing me and to llama for hosting!

YES!!!! Go civvies!!!!

I am definitely voting BWT.

Well, that sucks.

I honestly think the indie is either BWT or Dom at this point.

I am voting BWT because I meant to yesterday: he is one of the replacements and I feel, especially lately, he has been seeming too flip floppy and trying too hard for my tastes.

Just a guess though. Sorry if you're civ, man, though it seems you likely won't be dying today.

I really don't think Vomps is the independent, guys, but if he is, then kudos.

Seems like silly regular Vomps to me.

Maybe I've just grown way too accustomed to his seemingly random, unexplained accusations.

I mean, he could be independent as much as anyone else, i guess. I'm just not feeling it.

Okay guys, so who are we voting today?

I'm not feeling MM, Vomps, or S~V~S too much, so for me it's between the rest. I intended on voting BWT yesterday, so I might do that today. What is everyone thinking? I feel we're still in a crapshoot phase, which sucks.

RIP Hedge!

I'm not sure what the Tarot card reading means at all. Lol.

S~V~S wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:

Mongoose wrote:

S~V~S wrote:That makes me want to ote MM again tomorrow, tbh. We have another lynch survivor, so i would like to revisit the MM discussion.

I think this is for the best. I'm not leaning toward Vomps at all (although he'd make a natural independent).

Who survived? I am not Adverse to discussing MM, but am inclined to think he's most likely civ.

The reason i think vomps was faking was the first time we have seen true insanification this game.

It looked fairly true to me, and we have 2 hex/potion people in this game, perhaps they insanify via different methods. I have seen probably half a dozen different insanifiers. Vomps looked like one I have seen before, so I am not sure what you mean by "true" insanification.

And I was on phone, I did not realize it was a tie, I thought INH had less votes. Tomorrow i am going to vote BWT again, or Vomps. And :P at MP, you pushed me to make a decision, then did not show up, lol. I could have voted closer to the end than I did, and I would have voted Vomp to save INH.

I'm so sorry about that, lol, I got caught up dealing with Fight Club and then realized I had barely missed the deadline here. Fail!

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Why the eye, Dom?

I'm still leaning towards MM being civ, so I'm not sure I want to look there. Vomps is one I would consider though. Given the way the lynch went down, I could possibly be wrong about him. Not to mention that once he was un-insanified, he didn't bother explaining his vote for INH. Or any of his other posts for that matter.

Yes, but as we saw with epig, just because Vomps failed to explain his vote doesn't make him necessarily bad.

Good point. But if he's not going to explain it, then what do you make of his vote? Because I think it's either 1) nonsensical, 2) has a hidden agenda, 3) is info-related. Those are the only possibilities I see here.

@Vomps: Are you still reading the thread or not?

He's almost always nonsensical.

Frankly, I think he's gotten bored. Which tells me he's probably civ.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Why the eye, Dom?

I'm still leaning towards MM being civ, so I'm not sure I want to look there. Vomps is one I would consider though. Given the way the lynch went down, I could possibly be wrong about him. Not to mention that once he was un-insanified, he didn't bother explaining his vote for INH. Or any of his other posts for that matter.

Yes, but as we saw with epig, just because Vomps failed to explain his vote doesn't make him necessarily bad.

I am honestly leaning towards MM being genuine but I could be wrong of course.

Damn, RIP INH.

Dang, I was just about to vote! Sorry about that, host and players.

What do you think then, S~V~S? A BWT vote or something different?

Anyone else, thoughts??

S~V~S, it is possible MM could be the Indy, but I don't know, I'm leaning occam's razor on this for now. I at least want to see what we can try today.

MM, I'd be willing to vote BWT possibly. Reason I voted for you pretty much came down to the replacement factor, so it makes sense to me.

Yeah, I'm not so sure myself.

I do know I will not be voting Metalmarsh though.

RIP Elo!

Dom, what are you thinking?

That's interesting.

S~V~S wrote:It is also possible she was a set up kill, but i doubt it. I think Boogs was a set up kill though. I am OK with my MM vote.

Agreed.

Personally, S~V~S, I thought about it and I think Blooper was just an untraceable/chaos kill. I really couldn't find any reason for any particular player to want her dead.

I'm fine with a replacement vote. Not really sure how else to vote.

Votes MM

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Welcome back MP. I'm gonna go ahead and assume you are civvie.

Seems logical, right?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:The thing I worry about is the mystery about his ability to become "super powerful". Will he still be killable to a reasonable extent?

I worry about that too; I hope so.

First off, sorry to mongoose I was clearly wrong there! And I see we caught both baddies!

As to this Mage person, it could really be anyone.... I don't know if it would be better to be more active and aggressive or more blendy and try to avoid attention or somewhere in between. I honestly think this might be kind of a crapshoot. Does anyone have any ideas?

Oh my god no way!!!! Awesome!!! Thanks to my rezzer!

Vompatti wrote:Why is MP on the poll?

Frankly, I haven't been lynched on a more ridiculous premise in a long time.

I probably would go through and address all of your points individually because I like doing that, but I'm dead in 15 minutes anyway, and then you'll see that I flip civvie and shit your pants promptly.

I don't need to address your points. They're all based on conjecture and they're ridiculous. You refuse to address how weird = bad in all of your content. I can't fathom how you think there's any legitimate point raised against me other than the one I stated above.

I definitely don't think you're baddie though.

thellama73 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Thanks for the game, Llama!

You're welcome, but there are still four missing votes and a sold 18 minutes.

I'm not holding my breath.

INH, you will shit when you're wrong about me, and then you can eat your own sarcastic responses.

Mongoose, you STILL have posted more than a few times and yet failed to refuse how my behavior is even "weird" and how weird = baddie. Good luck getting yourself out of a lynch tomorrow.

Boogs, I just honestly thought Dom made a good point and you had struck me as possibly insincere at the time I made my post, even though they were minor, and I didn't really have those feelings about anyone else at the time. It was a pretty crappy vote, but it was either that or miss the vote. Since catching up, you've made me feel much better about you.

Honestly, I'm shocked that I've been lynched on such a weak case. The only point raised against me with any merit whatsoever is the fact that there was no NK last night and I clearly wasn't around, but that's very easily debunked regardless (I would have made the PM if I were bad; someone could be setting me up, and considering Mongoose really wanted to get me lynched, there you go).

At the end of the day, apparently I was the sacrifice that the game demanded, but I hope it will open a lot of your eyes to what's going on because Mongoose hasn't contributed any actual game-related content to suspecting me beyond saying I'm "weird", "odd", or "strange", despite what she or INH purports.

It's disappointing to get knocked out early AGAIN, but I suppose since I'll be hosting Fight Club soon and I only have four weeks left in Cincinnati, my schedule wouldn't be super great anyway. Thanks for the game, Llama!

Oh, and votes Mongoose. Who knows, maybe I still have a chance to live, but it seems incredibly, incredibly remote.

Now I'll hold off on voting just in case someone can poke holes in this, but I'm really feeling strongly about a Mongoose vote at the moment. Let me know what you think, guys.

And BWT, to answer your question, I don't have any particular reason to think Nutella is bad or independent this game; I think you're just seeing her go-to playstyle, and she has struck me as genuine. I meant to include this in an earlier post, sorry.

I've played with and hosted Mongoose multiple times and I feel pretty confident that we're seeing her baddie game -- because it looks really similar to her Meat Boy game IMO.

She has 23 posts, most of which don't have much game-related content, and this actually gets her in trouble as a civvie. But there is a distinction to be made between what on-topic content she does have as a civvie early on in games and a baddie. As a baddie, she is more agreeable, and her on-topic content typically more than half consists of her adding onto thoughts contributed by other players but without any substance, like the below:

Mongoose wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I got the impression that this was a directional poll, not a rewarding poll. I could be wrong about that, but it was the impression I got. I am unlikely to vote for someone based on their vote in that poll.

At this point, only one thing is sticking out to me, and that is Hedgie implying she would consider voting for Vomps based solely on the number of his posts. That does not sit well with me, tbh. If i had to vote this second, i might vote there, but i don't so I won't. Maybe she was just joking?

She said something similar at the start of last game (I think it was the one you modded), so it's at least consistent.

Mongoose wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I have to agree re Vomps, I will read back before work, and see who posted actual content, and who did not. I will probably vote based on that.

Other than Hedgie, did anyone actually recommend a Vomps vote?

I did a re-skim and I don't see anything of that nature.

It's like when I "buddy up" to other players more so when I'm bad.

She also is more opinionated when she's baddie, but fails to articulate reasons for her suspicions more when she's bad (at least when she's civvie she articulates reasons, even if they confuse most people):

Mongoose wrote:

nutella wrote:I wonder, if divination had won out, could we have divined who the baddies are?

Grasping at straws. And just so I can beat Lizzy to the punch before she accuses me of trumped up nonsense ( ), I will admit this is not the most salient case. Hells bells, it's not even a case, but it's above random voting.

ANYWAY

Verbose mongoose is verbose

I feel like this could be Nutty trying to throw suspicion off of her own trail. Like trying to distance herself from baddies. Perhaps. Our host Jeffrey Llamer would never let it so easily be discerned.

This is a terrible case and I strongly suggest you vote elsewhere. It's Day 1 and it's all I got so far. This is the most ridiculous, overblown pseudo-case made from one statement on Day 1 ever, but I promised myself I'd not be a space cadet in this game.

Let's roll.

LA

This post just screams not genuine to me, upon re-read.

Mongoose wrote:I'm not so sure I'm down with a Boogs vote though, sug.

Is it just me or has Socky lost the plot a bit?

LIzzy, get your face in here; we need your insight, cakepop.

This is where she starts dropping my name, asking if I've "lost the plot a bit", but she never explains what that means exactly or how it makes me bad. She's been subtly pushing the thread in my direction ever since this post, and it seems she's been successful if you base it on the votes thus far.

Mongoose wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Mongoose wrote:I'm not so sure I'm down with a Boogs vote though, sug.

Is it just me or has Socky lost the plot a bit?

LIzzy, get your face in here; we need your insight, cakepop.

1. Can you explain why you trust Boogs?

2. Do you have anyone you DIStrust, even a bit?

3.What are your thoughts on Hedgeowl?

I numbered them for easy reference, hope you don't mind.

1. I don't, I just don't mistrust him yet.

2. Sock. Definitely Sock.

3. She's being consistent with her motives (from past games I mean), so I can't tell yet either way.

This is her next post. She never says why she seems to trust Boogs; she actually says she doesn't, but before she said she "wasn't so keen" on a Boogs vote, which seems contradictory. But she also never explains why at all. She doesn't even say he seems sincere. She just says she doesn't mistrust him yet. This may seem nitpicky, but it's actually a key part of how Mongoose plays when she's bad.

She then says she distrusts me, definitely. Again, never explains why.

Mongoose wrote:I agree wholeheartedly about Hedgie. I've never seen her as driveby voter.

I need to be very careful with my words, so that's why I didn't post more last night (also my boss was hanging around foreevvvver), but I'm home now and I have a bit more time before my work is throwing me a going away party tonight!

Let's see how cogent I can be about this - I am definitely examining Boog as much as anyone else (who is such a lovely human being/cat by the way), but I was hesitant to take Sock's word for it. I found his post drumming up support for a Boogs vote to be fun and funny, but weird: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 434#p72368

I'm examining why things went down the way they did last night, but I think it could very well be Sock. I would hate to push him out so early (he died so early in last game, but at least he really was bad), but it explains a lot if he is Aleister Crowley. And yeah, specifically Crowley, not just a bad hoss in general.

This just pings the freak out of me because she says "I need to be very careful with my words", and she emphasizes she is examining Boogs as much as anyone else, but hesitant to take my word for it. My word for what? My vote is fun and funny, but weird? And AGAIN, how does this make me bad? And how is it even weird? Sure, it's in horoscope language, but I HAD to vote right that second, and I stated in the Fight Club thread and elsewhere I would be out of town from the 10th-13th, so how is it weird exactly?

Answer: She's making shit up because she's bad.

Mongoose wrote:

S~V~S wrote:It would explain so much if you could elaborate on why you think that as well.

I promise I'm not being intentionally obtuse, but I gotta hold back a bit. Generally, I analyzed how Night 1 went down (no deaths) and filled in the blanks from there. There are other explanations for it, of course, so I could be very well wrong. I'm not at all "Super Sure" but am in the category of "Definitely Suspect" though.

Even without my annoyingly cryptic explanations, I think his actually thread behavior is odd. That in of itself isn't maybe ammunition for suspicion, but it's definitely eye-catching.

She refuses to explain.

My thread behavior is ODD. Again, she can't even explain what makes it odd. But she says it's "definitely eye-catching" and somehow that makes me bad, even though she never comes out and says it.

Then, of course, this:

Mongoose wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:I'm voting for MP.

Exhibit A: He was the second person to vote for Epig, a civvie.

Exhibit B: He voted for Boogs, and not for AP.

Exhibit C: His absence from the website matches up to Night 2. He wouldn't have a chance to send in an NK.

I would be able to look past one of these things on it's own. But, the combination of all three have convinced me to vote for him.

I can't imagine I won't vote for him as well. I woulda last vote if I hadn't been so inept about what day of the week it was. He's not been around as much, so it's hard to analyze behavior as much as I'd like, but I think he's been a bit strange this game.

Now she makes it look like she is agreeing again with someone else.

Why can't you imagine you won't vote for me, Mongoose? How am I strange? You still FAIL to explain how that even is the case, let alone how it makes me bad.

Lest we all forget that if someone really wanted to, they could just as easily have purposefully missed their NK PM on N2 just to get me framed and lynched. I don't know why, but hey, why not? Get a civvie lynched, it would work. And who was the only person subtly pushing the thread in my direction before N2? Mongoose.

And let's not forget that there's other explanations for a missed NK: block, etc., although I will also admit that two failed NKs is definitely more than a bit strange.

Seriously, I will eat a hat if Mongoose is a civvie this game. I am THAT confident.

Vompatti wrote:Since INH got A Person right (which I never would have), I'm going to trust him and *vote MP*.

Also, this is incredibly flawed logic that led to the civvies losing The Hobbit.

Llama gunned after Mongoose so hard and he was wrong, so it made him re-think his suspicions of MetalMarsh and Dom, even though they were correct.

Epig had incredible insight with catching baddies early on in the game, but later on did not quite so much, but people followed him anyway because he had been so successful with those early on.

I see this kind of thinking all the time in mafia and all it does is get civvies in trouble. Just because you're wrong or right about A, it doesn't make you right or wrong about B.

Okay, so I'm back and caught up! Sorry again for my absence. However, it's been clearly stated multiple times elsewhere I was going to be gone for this window.

My thoughts were not entirely clear on D2 and that is my fault. I must make it clear that I am not currently suspicious of Boogs.

I am most suspicious of Mongoose because I really think we are seeing her baddie game here. Most players I actually feel pretty good or indifferent about. I don't have any read on the replaced in players quite yet.

Lynching me would be a huge mistake. What are the arguments against me exactly? Mongoose has been throwing around my name for days but hasn't quite articulated why I'm baddie other than I'm "acting strange". Care to provide examples? And to explain how that makes me bad exactly?

At least INH came up with logic, even though he previously "was not seeing the MP suspicion", so I will respond to those points:

insertnamehere wrote:I'm voting for MP.

Exhibit A: He was the second person to vote for Epig, a civvie.

I don't understand how this makes me a baddie candidate exactly, but I stand by my vote for Epig; there wasn't anything that caught my eye more on D1.

Exhibit B: He voted for Boogs, and not for AP.

I was the first vote; not only that, I had to vote right at the start of D2 and in a rush. I voted Boogs because I thought he seemed most suspicious at the time, but I no longer think that.

Exhibit C: His absence from the website matches up to Night 2. He wouldn't have a chance to send in an NK.

Fair point, but you can take my word on this one: as a baddie, I NEVER miss my PMs. Never. If I even had the opportunity (which I did at some point, even though I was really busy) to pop on and send in an NK, I would have done it. Since this observation is based on conjecture that I'm bad because I "missed" my PM, I really can't argue with it any more than with WIFOM right back at it.

I would be able to look past one of these things on it's own. But, the combination of all three have convinced me to vote for him.

I will elaborate more on why I think Mongoose deserves a vote most in a minute, and it's certainly not because of a NO U.

Hey everyone! So sorry to the host and my fellow players, I have been busy looking for my apartment in San Antonio. I was supposed to get in around midnight last night but we had a flight delayed due to maintenance issues and I am currently in Dallas. I should be arriving home sometime this afternoon so I will have time to catch up and post and explain myself much better than I did during D2.

Today you will be voting for Boogs. The reasons are simple: Dom's observation, as well as his recent posts, where he tries to claim baddies would hop onto a bandwagon for Epi. Seems desperate and shady. No better reasons to vote for anyone else.

For a few days, threads will be relatively absent in your life. Be sure to tell the thread-loving people in your life that you're sorry but you're not ignoring them, just busy.

For the next few days you will find no free time in San Antonio. It would behoove you to vote now. Follow your gut.

Boogs wrote: I do think it's worth a look at some Epignosis voters without sound reason for doing it. I'm honestly surprised he got 5 votes myself.

I would be interested if you interpret any to be the case.

Dom wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I should clarify: I'm a bit more apt to look that way (at non-Epig voters) because I don't have as solid reads on any of them right now, and I believe they could have avoided responsibility for their votes.

That's not to say Epig voters can't be bad, and I'm willing to consider it, but none of the votes struck me as that opportunistic, really.

I don't know what kind of civilian votes for someone on D1 and never explains his vote, but that's what Epig did, and the things that civilians (including myself :P) sometimes do never cease to amaze me.

Civvies never make votes without reasons?
and here I was thinking Elohcin and INH's votes had reasoning behind them.

Elohcin wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I should clarify: I'm a bit more apt to look that way (at non-Epig voters) because I don't have as solid reads on any of them right now, and I believe they could have avoided responsibility for their votes.

That's not to say Epig voters can't be bad, and I'm willing to consider it, but none of the votes struck me as that opportunistic, really.

I don't know what kind of civilian votes for someone on D1 and never explains his vote, but that's what Epig did, and the things that civilians (including myself :P) sometimes do never cease to amaze me.

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood why you all were voting him then. You are right though...I didn't see an explanation for his vote. I agree that I wouldn't think a civvie would vote without explanation but then again I wouldn't think a baddie would either.

Fair points. It would be a poor (especially on reflection, since he died) strategy for a baddie to take. I don't really think my reasoning for voting him was that strong, but I didn't think to vote anyone else as more likely bad.

And Dom, why Boogs?

I should clarify: I'm a bit more apt to look that way (at non-Epig voters) because I don't have as solid reads on any of them right now, and I believe they could have avoided responsibility for their votes.

That's not to say Epig voters can't be bad, and I'm willing to consider it, but none of the votes struck me as that opportunistic, really.

I don't know what kind of civilian votes for someone on D1 and never explains his vote, but that's what Epig did, and the things that civilians (including myself :P) sometimes do never cease to amaze me.

RIP Epig.

Elohcin wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:7 MovingPictures07 was on a journey to the temple, as was his custom. A shepherd observed him, saying "Traveler, the means of sending forth your seed has been severed."

Maybe Epi voted Lizzy to subtly say that he thinks I am civvie this game. He would be right.

But you randomized. How would following a random vote because he trusts you make him civ? If anything it looks like him kissing up to you.

You convinced me.

*voting Epi*

I didn't say he did it because he trusted my randomized vote. I said he may voted my way to subtly show he thought I was civ. Really it was mostly a joke though anyway b/c you all were talking (again) about how he is so good at reading me.

Still, I am unsure of why everyone voted for Epi b/c he was having fun with the theme of the game. That sounds like a lame excuse to be suspicious of someone. I have my eye on Epi voters.

I'm not sure why you think everyone voted him for that reason; I personally did not, and it seems Vomps and SVS did not either.

I was actually incredibly entertained by his posting and I hated to vote him for it, but he never even stated any reason why he voted for Lizzy, and considering she already had one vote cast upon her before that, it struck me as suspicious. Also, I thought a tie would be cool. But then other people voted for Epig and it was no longer a tie. (But that didn't really matter, it's really just me being silly, the real reason is his vote).

I was wrong, but I think it's silly to fixate on "Epig voters" any more than it is to fixate on voters who randomized.

Sure, there could be a baddie or even both among the Epig voters, but one is not me, and I think it's silly to set ourselves up for possibly a second civvie lynch already by concentrating on Epig voters when we really don't have any better evidence of any of them being bad than anyone else at this point, no? There's hardly been anything to base suspicions off of thus far.

Personally, I'm getting sincere vibes from S~V~S, I think Blooper's vote being cast first seemed genuine, Vompatti seems like he's actually enjoying this game and I don't have any reason to believe he's bad yet, so that leaves AP. So if any of the Epig voters are bad at this point, I'd be willing to look at AP, but not really any more closely than any of the voters who threw away their votes today. In fact, I'm a bit more apt to look that way, if anything.

I don't like Epi's unexplained vote for Lizzy, so I'm throwing a vote there.

Plus, yay ties.

Epignosis wrote:7 MovingPictures07 was on a journey to the temple, as was his custom. A shepherd observed him, saying "Traveler, the means of sending forth your seed has been severed."

Also, LMAO

I love the word behoove.

Has everyone checked in yet or not?

Yay game!

Definitely voting for Alchemy but mostly due to Fullmetal Alchemist and not actually because it's awesome (though that's the remainder of the reason).