The Syndicate

Golden wrote:MP will learn, as I did on RM, that no-one will ever trust a word he says for a long time...

MP, expect to be railroaded by people who, once they think you are bad, will not hear a word out of your mouth. Including me

Lol, I've learned that like 10 times already, so no worries, I'm used to it.

Golden wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I cannot stress how well the civilians owned this game. THIS is how civilians should play mafia. Every single one of you. Seriously.

I am so glad you guys won it in the end. I was obviously disappointed I couldn't pull off the amazing underdog comeback, but it just wouldn't have been right.

I think what partly contributes to this... and I think zomb will help redress the balance too, actually... maybe, if I think she enjoys civ as much as she seems to.

This site looks like its full of FEBs who love being mafia and bring their A games to being mafia... just my impression, not sure if thats true, but people like epi, llama, SVS... I'm presuming lots of people make great baddies here.

BF, sophie and I are definitely the exact opposite. We all bring our A games as civilians, much more than as mafia, I think. And I wonder if that might be just a little bit different.

And, frankly, I don't remember having played a lot with canuck, but I have never seen a civilian play their hand as well as she did, I don't think.

That's very true, actually. I personally feel I am 9001 times better at being mafia (and I enjoy it more, generally) than at being civilian. It's obviously a complex question without a simple answer, but I definitely feel that "civilians don't play well enough relative to mafia" (for whatever reason that is) is Reason #1.

We even considered NKing Aces on N1 for a giant gambit if MM got lynched instead. Aces and I loved the idea! We didn't get a chance to SERIOUSLY consider it though since Day 1 ended and Aces was lynched... upon which I was like, "Fuck!"

I also felt super restricted after I overplayed my frustration with MM's self-vote and was wondering if you self-voted on purpose to trick us... I thought for sure that first Day was going to sink the entire team if Aces got lynched, so I tried so hard to redirect attention without being too obvious. It was incredibly difficult.

Golden saw right through me though and called me out on everything PERFECTLY. I've been called out as a baddie for observations that were incorrect or coincidental or things that I could see myself doing as a civilian, but all I could think about re: BF and Golden for the first two cycles or so were "Wow, these civilians are ON FIRE".

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I don't understand the appeal of saving a baddie teammate on Day 1. I just don't.

I mean I understand that you lose a precious teammate, but you risk exposing yourselves with the vote patterns. You're probably going to lynch a civ in the process of the save (which you normally would have done), and instead of lynching a baddie with no connections to him/her on Day 1, that same baddie will be lynched on Day 2 or 3 (presumably), with a ton of potential connections.

I don't either, but everyone knows my go-to strategy is to throw my teammate under the bus, and it had burned me before, so especially with the 24 hour day I was caught between a rock and a place on what I should do. I just tried to approach the situation as if I couldn't decide what to think of Aces, and bringing in the fact that he just recently started playing again and his playstyle is way different, would be logical enough. I was super nervous about it though. I feel way less nervous when I distance than I do when I defend; I think defending is riskier.

Canucklehead wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:LOL, Epi! Indeed. And I thought Epi was just being super mean when he wouldn't answer any of our questions about the recruiting, but it makes so much sense now.

Canucklehead wrote:Did you receive the message about recruiting me, but with no BTSC, MP?

I did! I even PMed Epi after you voted me, "Hey bitch, where's my BTSC? "

That's fantastic.
I added that bit about you having to convince me to vote for you in order to gain BTSC because I honestly didn't know how I was going to make a case against you, and I wanted you to do it for me
....but then you weren't around right away, and I was worried about a bandwagon starting on someone else before I could stop it, so I went digging through your posts and made some shit up.
I wasn't lying when I said you hadn't done much to real your alignment in the thread. Other than the Day 1 stuff, I think the case I made against you was spectacularly unconvincing.

Absolutely perfectly played.

I was seriously busy, seeing Interstellar last night with Daisy, and I was trying not to use RL as an excuse for my absence, but I thought you came up with a pretty good case against me considering -- I knew my posting less now in comparison would burn me, but it was 80% just me being busy anyway (Death Note, Smashfest, RL stuff, feeling burnt out) and 20% me taking advantage of the aforementioned 80% to avoid the thread more. :P

Never before have I felt I was playing that much of an uphill battle in a mafia game, yet there was always this glimmer of hope that appeared at the perfect times. It was truly something else.

Linki w/ BR: Well played by you, definitely. I'm so sorry I killed you, but I knew there was a way you were able to determine roles, and I didn't want to have you around at endgame figuring out I wasn't Betty Boop via that. Turns out I should have probably killed someone else. It was so tough since we only got to kill every other night.

And regarding my faked emotional outburst, I HAD to do it, I was so desperate to get myself out of suspicion, that was literally my last resort, after I had tried to talk myself out of every point brought against me.

That's why you should never trust someone due to an emotional outburst.

Canucklehead wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Canuck, you owned me completely in the end. The reason you hadn't seen jokes from me is because truly I was terrible at coming up with ideas and couldn't think of any!

And I considered NKing you, but we had too many threats going around, and when you did "laugh" I kept waiting for my recruit!

Not making jokes was totally to your benefit! I was 100% convinced by the Betty Boop thing, and was tying myself in knots trying to figure out which of llama, bea, or rabbit was Greasy. I was ready to vote bf the next day, until you made your fox comment.

I honestly would have given up completely, but we were growing desperate and I thought we could try to shoot for that recruit one more time. I knew I shouldn't have bothered with the fox comment, dammit! :P

Well played. You rocked it.

I cannot stress how well the civilians owned this game. THIS is how civilians should play mafia. Every single one of you. Seriously.

I am so glad you guys won it in the end. I was obviously disappointed I couldn't pull off the amazing underdog comeback, but it just wouldn't have been right.

nijuukyugou wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Also, regarding why civilians don't seem to win on this site (though they do win Side Missions roughly half the time, it's Jobs that they fail at), I must say that I firmly believe the main reason is because the civilians don't play to their utmost potential.

This game absolutely confirms that I was right. We tried so hard, but the civilians truly played to their utmost potential. All game. You guys seriously rocked it and you deserved it so much.

I even totally sent a PM to my team just a few (real) days ago asking if I should just give up, because I thought you guys really deserved it and we didn't, but Blooper and Zomba talked me out of it. :P I had just been insanely emotionally and mentally stressed, so that was definitely factoring into my breakdown, but it's also a testament to how insanely well you guys had put the pressure on us all game. It was insanely draining to me, but so, so much fun! Thanks for the game, Epi! It truly was a ball. Maybe my favorite speed game EVER.

Told you they'd get it if they deserved it :P

Yep. :P

LOL, Epi! Indeed. And I thought Epi was just being super mean when he wouldn't answer any of our questions about the recruiting, but it makes so much sense now.

Canucklehead wrote:Did you receive the message about recruiting me, but with no BTSC, MP?

I did! I even PMed Epi after you voted me, "Hey bitch, where's my BTSC? "

Also, regarding why civilians don't seem to win on this site (though they do win Side Missions roughly half the time, it's Jobs that they fail at), I must say that I firmly believe the main reason is because the civilians don't play to their utmost potential.

This game absolutely confirms that I was right. We tried so hard, but the civilians truly played to their utmost potential. All game. You guys seriously rocked it and you deserved it so much.

I even totally sent a PM to my team just a few (real) days ago asking if I should just give up, because I thought you guys really deserved it and we didn't, but Blooper and Zomba talked me out of it. :P I had just been insanely emotionally and mentally stressed, so that was definitely factoring into my breakdown, but it's also a testament to how insanely well you guys had put the pressure on us all game. It was insanely draining to me, but so, so much fun! Thanks for the game, Epi! It truly was a ball. Maybe my favorite speed game EVER.

This was an incredibly tough game for us. We all had SO MUCH heat from the very beginning, and then LC was playing so totally pro-civ that he wasn't afraid to throw any of us under the bus. It was insane! I tried so hard to navigate this game to our victory, but on two separate occasions I was really tempted to give up.

Canuck, you owned me completely in the end. The reason you hadn't seen jokes from me is because truly I was terrible at coming up with ideas and couldn't think of any!

And I considered NKing you, but we had too many threats going around, and when you did "laugh" I kept waiting for my recruit!

Wow!!! What a game!! Congratulations, civilians, you totally deserved it. Especially Canuck. Just wow! I had absolutely no reason to suspect those recruit messages weren't from Epi. I did question for a few seconds why Epi would include a recruit mechanic, but never did I question whether those messages were actually from him.

We were outplayed from the very beginning. I was panicking because Aces brought so much attention to himself and wasn't sure what to do, especially since in The Hobbit (the game Elo referred to earlier on) I found myself and a couple of my teammates under a lot of suspicion early on and distanced HARD from them. It fell apart because Daisy, BWT, and Epi called me out on it, lynched me, and they subsequently lynched my teammates. I knew people would figure out the same here because I'm known for throwing my teammates under the bus in a heartbeat, so it backfired hard when I steered the thread away from Aces, and Golden was SPOT ON about everything. I tried so hard to convince him and everyone else... I can't believe I made it so far in the game. I was figuring I'd be lynched relatively early on myself, so I specifically defended or issued non-opinions on every single one of my teammates so that if I did get lynched, people would dissect my posts to oblivion.

I did have the power to send messages as Betty Boop; at first, my team and I weren't really sure how to utilize them yet. I thought that we could use them to create chaos, but that alone was not a good enough reason for me. I figured I'd bide my time for a bit and see what we could do with it later as the game went on. Then juliets outed herself to me and it worked perfectly! I thought I could NK her and then pose as her thereafter to get attention off of me. I tried to use it as though I was a civilian as much as possible, and thus wouldn't be sending messages to those I suspected nor every night, because inevitably it's risky. I do feel like I did a pretty good job with that.

Behind the scenes, my team was epic. You guys rocked it. I loved scheming every single minute of this game with all of you!

fingersplints wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:And by that, I mean, I will show up exactly as how some of you think I will! What a shocker! :P

By "exactly how some of us think" do you mean the last weasel because that's what I think

LOL, no, that's not what I meant. :P I suppose "think" in present tense was poorly chosen.

See, BF? I knew that. You should have voted with me, not against me.

:P

Sockfacegate

And by that, I mean, I will show up exactly as how some of you think I will! What a shocker! :P

This will go down as the biggest WTF reveal in mafia history, I tell ya.

Canucklehead wrote:

blindfaeth wrote:Well regardless of who it is you played a great game and I applaud you.

I hope I'm not being duped but guess I gotta vote MP

I think bf might have thought she voted.....but she did not.

I'm sure Epi will be open-minded to consider ending my suffering, since I doubt any other weird result will occur today. Too bad you all weren't open-minded enough. :P

I just want to say this has been an amazingly fun game, Epi, and I want to thank all of the other players as well, since I've had a BLAST this game, and all of you have been so incredibly participatory and fun to play with. I can't believe I made it this far, but it appears the incorrect assumptions based on Golden's and BF's thoughts in the very beginning were what got me in the end. What a shame.

Also, I'm not throwing any tantrum, I'm just rightfully wrongly accused. You'll see. YOU'LL ALL SEE.

You're going to flip your lid when you see the result, Canuck. Then try to tell me it isn't unfair.

I never said it was "unfair" as in I was implying any of you of cheating or any shameworthy act. Whoever is the baddie this game has done an AMAZING job, and has accomplished it without any of that tomfoolery. I apologize for the diction, but apparently my meaning was misunderstood.

Fair enough, splints.

Folks, just remember everything I've said when I flip civilian. I don't even know who has done this to me or what exactly is going on here, but I am appalled at the lack of open-mindedness among my fellow kind. It might just cost us the game.

Well, this sucks.

Sigh. I guess I'm voting Canuck. I have to go do homework now. I hope others will please listen to me and think twice about what they are doing.

Ugh, this is so unfair. I'm sorry, guys, but you've been clearly duped. You're going to be incredibly disappointed.

And I have no idea if the detective is dead, but I was trying to think of every possibility that there could be a sudden turnaround on me and it's one possibility I considered. Why are you trying to pass everything I just said as fact, splints, when I clearly indicated it was speculation?

Don't! I swear it isn't me.

Splints, I have no clue what's going on. It's very possible you, Lena, and Canuck are all completely misguided, but somehow I doubt it. There's at least one baddie out there who's turning this tide all of a sudden and making a huge power play. I never said I knew there was a recruit nor did I purport there to be one. I just am trying to figure out plausible explanations for this. All of you have had firm reason to trust me, and now all of a sudden you're giving it up. I've already defended against the points brought against me on Day 1 and such by Golden. I thought my comments regarding Zombie were clear. I don't know what else to say. I really should be just working on my homework right now but this is a key lynch and the civilians CANNOT lose now.

This is crazy. Lena even said he was convinced it was splints and then Canuck comes in with a giant case about me being a fraud. I am not a fraud. I have not purported to be anything other than what I am.

There's some funny business going on up in here and I bet it's due to a baddie and someone who's been recruited.

Ugh, WTF. Guys! I swear it's not me! I have no idea where this is coming from, but clearly someone is being fooled HARD and it's not by me. I haven't been around as much because I've been much busier, and I've contributed to this game in every possible way I can. I don't know what's going on, but I sent a message to Sophie last night, believing her chances to be BH to be substantial, so if this has to do with some detective work, then all of you are wrong. I can't believe you didn't even wait to hear back from me first before just voting; that's absolutely ridiculous and convinces me that either Canuck or splints are pulling a baddie move. The fact that one of you could be the real baddie and kept me around long enough for this explicit purpose is just alarming to me.

I'm tempted to vote Canuck, but I don't know what to do. I have homework I absolutely HAVE to get done this morning, so this is literally all the reply I can conduct for now. I have been busy with Smashfest and spending every bit I can with Daisy because she's been in town for the weekend, and I'm struggling to catch up on homework due to my midterm this past Wednesday. Will someone please actually let me defend myself? What the hell is the point of early voting?

This is so frustrating.

Lena Hyena wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Wow. This game is crazy. bea's reveal is crazier than a fox with a lady fox!

RIP bea. Sorry.

Lena, you say that my vote makes you trust me less, but I thought my process was transparent, and I don't know how voting for Sophie or BF would have been better options.

MP, I trust you pretty well because I think Zombs posts clear you, honestly...

But right now I'm paranoid in every direction.

I really had cleared all of fs, bf and canuck in my head, and right now I think it must be one of the three of them.

Oh, okay.

Why do you think that? I don't have any reason to think it's one of them.

Canucklehead wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Wow. This game is crazy. bea's reveal is crazier than a fox with a lady fox!
.

Lulz. What does this even mean?

LOL, I don't know, it was just a terrible attempt at a joke.

I initially thought BF could be bad this game, but I don't know. I'll have to think about that. Maybe I'll re-read some folks before the next Day if I get some time.

Wow. This game is crazy. bea's reveal is crazier than a fox with a lady fox!

RIP bea. Sorry.

Lena, you say that my vote makes you trust me less, but I thought my process was transparent, and I don't know how voting for Sophie or BF would have been better options.

Ugh. Well, I have to go. I guess I'll vote bea. I don't know. I just can't make a decision on Sophie or BF right now; I'm not willing to vote Sophie in case she isn't lying and I'm not willing to vote BF for basically no reason.

Lena Hyena wrote:Canuck - I really don't think a tie is a good idea.... if we are being fooled, there could be two baddies left. Like - it could be you and sophie, for instance.

A tie seems like a really bad idea to me.

I'm happier being wrong about sophie. At least if we lynch sophie and she was honest we know about rabbit and niju. Otherwise we just are still paranoid.

But I think a tie would just leave us still paranoid tomorrow. Make a call and go with it. Bf or sophie.

This is a good point.

fingersplints wrote:We are going into a baddie kill night. I still think a tie is a bad idea. If we have two baddies left that is just going to let them even the numbers

Very good point.

What are you going to do? I feel kind of lost as to what I should do at the moment.

Lena Hyena wrote:Honestly... bf... like, even I'm considering this could be right!

But... he did vote aces first, but then I guess they had a whole baddie team that could come in and vote MM, so it was safe. It gave bf a lot of cred. He was also amongst first to raise bass and niju as possibly bad...

Did he just come off as super civ because he knew who all the baddies were? Lol... I can see a scenario in which its bf, actually.

In theory, that could make the baddie anyone though, couldn't it?

Canucklehead wrote:MP, how do you feel about setting up a tie? Give bf time to talk, give us time to sort shit out?

A tie of Sophie and bea?

I honestly would vote bea at this point if Splints wasn't vouching for her, because I don't know what the heck's going on with Sophie, and I just can't vote for BF when I have no reason to distrust him now and he's not even around.

Linki: Yeah, same here.

Duly noted, thanks. I just was confused why BF?

I don't know, I don't really have any reason to distrust BF at this point.

Canucklehead wrote:BF has schooled us all, I think.

I'm paranoid, too...but I'd rather be wrong about lynching bf than wrong about lynching Sophie.

But why do you think this? Elimination?

Canucklehead wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Canucklehead wrote:....and if she's lying, than good on her for a convincing lie. I think this actually IS a part of mafia. That's why Epi built so many info/false info/bts shenanigans into his game. It allows for there to be uncertianty in plays like this,....and (to answer your question) is also the reason I have uncertainty still about you.

This doesn't make sense, Canuck.

Why are you considering uncertainty about me and not her?

You said the baddies have mimic roles, why can't the baddies have a role checker of the players they kill? Epi typically has a role like this, and it would make sense given that Jessica Rabbit requires players to claim a role.

This smells fishy.

It does make sense, actually. No need to be condescending

It is a possibility.
I am considering it.
i'm reading Sophie as genuine, and you as likely genuine, which is why I am considering a bf lynch.


.....but I'm uncertain as hell about all of you.

That was condescending? Odd. Sorry if you took it that way. I don't mean anything that way at all.

I just don't understand how this jives with what you've been saying though. You said you're considering BF or me as bad, but you didn't really say that about Sophie. Now you say that you're reading Sophie as genuine and me as "likely genuine", and you don't even say why you are considering BF other than what seems to be apparent process of elimination, is that correct? Or am I misunderstanding?

fingersplints wrote:I'm getting paranoid too, but Canuck pretty much led the lynches on bass and nijuu. She'd have to be the worst teammate ever if she is bad

Bass was a goner, though, and if Canuck is bad, then I don't see how Blooper was bad. Occam's Razor says one of Canuck or Blooper is Maroon.

I've trusted Canuck for a while now, and for good reason. I'm not about ready to give up that trust. That said, her recent posts don't make any sense to me whatsoever.

Lena Hyena wrote:I'm paranoid too!

What are you thinking, LenaGolden? Help me out here.

I need to vote now because I have to leave for a few hours. Splints is vouching for bea, and if what Sophie is saying is true, then I wouldn't want to vote for her either, but I just don't know if I buy it.

That said, I do not feel comfortable voting BF.

Ugh. This game.

fingersplints wrote:The only thing that makes me wonder about this is if sophie has been on for days about llama, why would she have tried to kill nijuu first who was surely to be lynched again instead of llama

This is a good point.

I think Canuck's willingness to take Sophie's role hint at face value, when otherwise she is considering uncertainty about me, in combination with Sophie's timing, is scaring me. Or maybe it's just the paranoia.