The Syndicate

I'm going to go ahead and vote since I will be heading out very soon, and I don't want to run out of time and miss.

*votes A Person*


^^^^ That's a funny thing to say, when you think about it as just words.

I was just rereading CBK's last posts over the past couple of days. She mentioned AP rather frequently, and mentions his weird pattern of self voting repeatedly. She mentioned my name as well (full disclosure) but nothing specific, just that I had been "slow in decision making" which she understood. She said things like this:

Captain Bunny Killer wrote: Although, I will say that AP's consistent self-voting is weirder than anything Indi has said. Did anyone else see if that was correct that AP has only self-voted? I could have missed something, so please let's get other eyes on that.

After reading what all she had to say about AP, I have no trouble seeing why he would want her dead - probably assumed she would continue to go after him. Doesn't seem like a weird NK at all to me after re-reading everything she said.

I will have to vote some time this afternoon, since I'll be leaving and won't be back before the poll closes. I'm happy to wait as long as I can and have some more discussion though.

As of right now, I'm leaning AP still - simply due to pieces of the puzzle. It's what seems to fit the most. Didn't CBK vote AP during the last lynch? When we took out SVS / Trogdor?

I wasn't thinking about voting CBK either. I didn't remember her being mentioned by anyone, but I can go back and look.

What are you thinking Dom?

Snow Dog wrote:If I don't I'll be voting AP or LT.

Same. I'm leaning a bit more towards AP atm, simply because I think AP has been more active than LT. I just checked her profile page here and it says "Last visited August 20".

Captain Bunny Killer wrote: Not so fast, Indi. I definitely brought up supsicion of you quite independently from SVS. I have been willing to give you a bit of room, but this makes me wary still. Anticipating that someone will ask for more on that, I don't have time now. I'm chasing other rabbits right now, and I have a TON of RL stuff to do today. Again, I'm not saying much about this, because it's not top priority, but I don't like how you're trying to slough this off as purely SVSish.

You brought up my name, not so much suspicion. Your mention of me was even vaguer, and more in passing than SVS's, so it didn't merit much attention from me, at least not imo. That's why I didn't mention it. Snowy used the word "case" - and the only person who even said anything approximating a "case" about me was SVS. So that's why I mentioned her name, rather than yours.

With that said, RIP - I really wish you were still here to discuss this and the theory about AP and LT.

~whew~ Good work gang!

RIP SVS

Snowy, there was never a "case" on me. SVS kept tossing my name around, that's it. And she drummed up lynches/suspicion against all kinds of people, because as we know now it didn't matter who she killed - as long as it wasn't her. If you have a question, I'm happy to answer it though.

I'm planning on moving forward with my theory. It makes a lot of sense to me. (But of course that's why I came up with it! )

I'm going to go ahead and share the theory I was thinking about. My theory is that AP and LT may be the remaining teammates on the Laser team. It focuses on something SVS said as well, which is another part of the theory - that borok read as someone without BTSC. As a new player, if you had absentee teammates, that would fit in my mind, as you would be virtually without BTSC. This is after a reread of AP, so there are a few more pieces of the puzzle I'd like to put together, but that's where I'm currently at.

CBK, I am not sure where your suspicion of me comes from, but I can assure you it is unfounded. Though, being that this is a mafia game - where paranoia must rule, I can also understand it 100%.

^^^ That was obviously not directed to Dom. Linki and such.

Interesting. I need to check a couple other things, but I am formulating a theory currently, and that helped solidify it. This lynch should also prove helpful in solidifying a portion of it as well.

For now, I'm going to go ahead and vote. My evening is getting ready to get busier, and I don't want to miss.

*votes SVS*

A Person (or anyone else who knows) are you new to mafia? Or have you been playing for quite a while?

I just did a reread of A Person. I'm going to let some things simmer in my mind, I have a couple of thoughts but I want them to gel a bit more before examining them more thoroughly.

juliets wrote:I was one of the people who said surely SVS would have sent in her PMs but the more time I've had to think about it and now knowing Trog really did stop killing for awhile, I just see SVS as the only good option. It's the only way I can make the pieces fall into place. Why would anyone else stop killing for a large part of the game when it would be to their benefit to kill? It just doesn't make sense unless there was a reason for it, like not wanting to be exposed by coming back into the game and have the kills start again.

Maybe I'm wrong but I can't think of anyone else that I can fit into the Trog role.

See, that's where I'm at too. It's like pieces of a puzzle, and the only piece that fits here in my mind is SVS. I don't understand why she keeps asserting it was DF when Snowie has clearly said he wasn't Trogdor. It's the only one that fits and makes sense.

Her defense also does not ring true to me.

I just read Trogdor's role, and the kill is random, so that does take away that reasoning of mine.

It still looks to me like SVS will be the best place for my vote to go today, though I am happy to wait and see what happens too. From that older, quoted post it looks like she all but admitted to being Trogdor.

APerson, I'll have to take a look at. That is a lot of self-voting and a lot of non-voting. Strange! I'll have plenty of time to do a read through on AP, so I'll see if anything there squicks me out.

Interesting indeed! That seems entirely plausible, I agree. In the beginning, the accusations against her being Trogdor seemed opportunistic to me, but now it really is starting to sound logical. Especially coupled with Trogdor's last kill of Leamiteo.

Since my internet seems solid for the moment and my sweetie has decided to rest his weary head...

This was an exchange that I took note of after the last lynch, and I guess at the beginning of the night period:

S~V~S wrote:lol, my instincts suck.

Leamiteo wrote:Yay! Got the head lazer!

Or you're bad....

Unfortunately, Leamiteo did not have a chance to expand on her thoughts... since Trogdor killed her last night. And that is what caught my attention in the Night Post. Anyone else have any thoughts on that?



Also, I have been wondering this for a while, so I'm going to go ahead and ask:

JC, is your avatar an onion with a black eye?

Also, RIP to both of the deadies!



Also, wtf Trogdor is back now?? So someone was being careful not to use their power for a few days it appears.

Captain Bunny Killer wrote:Also, thoughts on Indi? I'm seeing a lot of following without much substance... But I'm willing to listen, because I know what it's like to be slow in decision-making.

I have only just started having more time and opportunity to be involved in this game the past couple of days. Being honest, I haven't really been motivated to dive in because this is a busy game and there is a ton I've missed (and it's a hard core game, which makes me want to be less involved). My goal has been to simply keep up with what's happened since I've joined... and even that has been a challenge. But now I have more time (also my sweetie's going out of town again for about a week, so right now I'm trying to soak up every last minute with him before I die of boredom for a week - during which week I'll have plenty of time to mafia) and yet yesterday and today I am having internet issues. (I'm pet sitting and staying in a different house, and their internet has gone wonky.) I think I have the internet issue sorted (I hope) and I do plan to be a bigger part of the game. It is what it is.

(In fact, my internet just crapped out and I lost this post - twice. But thank goodness for Lazarus! This internet thing is really starting to piss me off.)

Hey now! W00T W00T!!

RIP Borok

It's been nice to actually be able to do some thread reading! I feel fine voting for borok this time, nubness and all. I remember having a similar discussion in past games where Elohcin had just started playing. I thought I saw some "hedging of bets" in some of borok's posts, and I don't feel like a lone nub civ would necessarily do that. If that makes sense. This vote makes a lot of sense to me.

*votes borok*


Also, borok: I hope getting lynched doesn't turn you off of mafia in the future!

Oh yay! I have until tomorrow evening!

Awww, RIP Bullz!!

I was going to ask how many games borok has played as well. So, that got answered already.

I'm going to check when the poll ends to make sure, but I will be having some time to spend reading here finally. My hope is that now that things are settling down and I'm feeling better physically I'll be able to get my feet under better and see what's what.

You know what? I'm going to vote myself too. Screw it. I totally get the frustration others have been feeling in this thread.

*votes indiglo*

Trying to catch up, and it's not easy.

Holy bandwagon Batman!!! I am not jumping on it, either. Bullz voted the same way (and apparently for the same reasons) I did last time and I know I'm not a baddie. So to use that reasoning to prove that Bullz is a baddie is weak, imo, and more than a bit opportunistic.

SVS, I said tunnel vision because you are clearly focusing on those few votes on that 1 particular lynch - and it's just not as significant as you think it is. You can read in and interpret things any way you want (which clearly you are doing) but when you don't listen to what someone is trying to tell you - that is tunnel vision. When you have already decided that someone is bad, and nothing they say affects your opinion - that is tunnel vision. Yes, lynch votes happen even with weak reasoning sometimes but that doesn't automatically mean someone is bad. Holding on too strongly to your own opinion is what can blind you, and then either you are a baddie (which would explain why you don't want to listen) or you're a stubborn civ (which isn't good for the civs AND the baddies take advantage of it). Play how you want, but just thinking you're right doesn't make you right. I do not have a team or BTSC. I am not a baddie. But you keep on thinking whatever it is you want to think, clearly that's the reality of things.

I don't have time to do much rereading, nor do I feel like it tbh. I had a hellish past few days and still feel like crap. Also this game is a bit too serious business for my taste, and it's hard for me to get invested when people are so hard core it just isn't fun anymore. It's a game after all, and games are supposed to be fun (or so I thought). So I'm going to pretty much vote almost anyone except Bullz.

JC, I had a similar response to MP's final postings. There really isn't anything definitive. Just a bunch of names with small hunches attached. IIRC the only people he was "100%" on are dead people. So... not super helpful, unfortunately. And they are so all over the place it's hard to take much away except for a list of names. And who knows how accurate it is.

SVS, there is NO connection between me, Timmer, Bullz or CBK. That was a good thought - going back and looking at MP's posts, and I hadn't thought of it yet. It was like "oh duh, of course I should have been looking there." You can be paranoid, but again, it doesn't make you right. If this tunnel vision continues you are going to get yourself (and possibly the thread) way off course. You are barking up the wrong tree here. I didn't vote to "save" Timmer, and that just doesn't strike me as logical. After I voted SVS he wasn't "saved", he still had more votes than SVS.

Aawww, RIP Mata!

Just a heads up gang. The game I'm hosting with Dex is likely switching to a 24/24 schedule. Also, Dex has to go out of town suddenly for a family health emergency, so I'm on my lonesome for it. That means I'm going to get much busier in the next couple of days with hosting. I will still plan to check in to this game regularly and do my best, but I won't have as much time as I did the other day (for example) because I won't be in 48 hour day periods anymore, so no hosting break. I hope that makes sense.


Also, I think perhaps looking into some of the folks MP mentioned sounds like a good idea.

Wow, nice! That is a great result!

RIP Timmer


Scrutinize me all you want. I'll even spin!

I have nothing to hide, as much as you may want to believe it, SVS. (And as much as you may want others to believe you.) I thought the vote pattern surrounding the votes for Timmer looked just as odd as YOU thought the vote pattern for YOU looked. It squicked my brow, and I voted accordingly - you just don't care to see my POV, and would rather attribute bad motives to it. Fair enough, but it doesn't make you right. I am glad a baddie was nabbed, at the same time I read it the way I read it. (Just like the previous lynches I've voted in.)

S~V~S wrote:

timmer wrote:so I'm guessing that I touched a bit of a lazer, I mean nerve, by bringing up dp and mentioning how svs and juliets were quick to support him?

I hope sd will count my vote.

Nice push to save Timmer, eh? So weren't one of those who thought I was the SK, Timmer? Now I have teammates, lol?

I am assuming I am gonna die, there is no reason for me not to. When this is over, I would be looking to Indi, she has been fairly blendy, IMO, and that "I dunno what to do" felt like a save, especially when I know Indi will vote her conscience when a civ if confronted by a close situation she does not have a complete read on.

Look at me all you want. You can say I've been blendy if you choose to, doesn't make it true. I just got here and am trying to get my feet under me and analyze what I see before me each day. I have shared my thoughts as I've had them, and actually, most of my opinions that I've shared have been disagreeing with the posts of pretty active players - how is that blendy?

I did vote my conscience, if you notice. I didn't know what to do (still am not sure) but I voted what stood out to me as the most odd. That's what voting your conscience means. You analyze what you are looking at, and vote what seems most logical. It's what I've done since I got here. And it's what I did this time. It worked out well during the Vomps lynch, my fingers are crossed it works out just as well this time too.

I like your "no u" though. At least some things never change.

Ok, I'm going to move forward, vote and be done with this so I can move on. I'm voting for SVS because this thing feels weird, and I really don't know who else to vote for at this point.

*votes SVS*

Snow Dog wrote: I agreed with S~V~S simple as that really. i had been looking a timmer for a while.

Interesting. Just a few days ago you said this about timmer:

Snow Dog wrote:

DFaraday wrote:RIP MP, you were the person I felt most civ about all game.

I do agree that Dom and Timmer are good to at least look at, but this was a lynch, not an NK, so I think it would be more of a leap to say that because they were gunning for MP, and now he's dead, we should start looking at them. It was a group effort that killed MP. And I'm actually leaning civ on Dom anyway (Timmer I have no clue).

Interesting. i was leaning Bad on Dom and don't know on timmer. You probably know Dom way better than I though.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

juliets wrote:So MP, who would you have voted for if not yourself? Which as a civv I don't really appreciate by the way but its too late now.

Probably S~V~S. Maybe DP or Dom, but given how the vote is going, then S~V~S. I feel she doesn't have the civvies' best interests at heart this game and she probably is Trogdor, honestly. But what do I know about that, I could be wrong. Just my gut, which has been wrong before in this game, so take that as you will.

I still have some somewhat rotten feelings about Dom (I really feel like he's been manipulating), timmer, CBK (her thoughts about Leamiteo bugged me), Snow Dog (I just really don't know what to make of him), and LT (I wasn't sure how I felt about bea) in that order. BUT these are all gut/interpretations-based, and I'd hate to do these players what has been done to me, so maybe I'm totally wrong about some or all of these.

Well, that's a pretty big list from MP. It looks like his top 3 were DP, Dom and SVS. He also mentioned Timmer though, who has garnered a few votes in a way that makes me nervous. AND CBK, who just said something about preferring to vote one of MP's suspicions.


I'm going to have to stop over thinking this, and just vote. I've missed most of the game so far, so it's not like I'm really going to be able to pull something fantastic out of my ass. I'd like to give it a few more minutes to simmer in my head though.

Didn't notice anything blatantly bad in DP's posts. (Though admittedly, I don't have a ton of experience with him.) Just someone who is not engaged in the game and isn't participating. He hasn't posted since August 22, I'm surprised he hasn't been modkilled yet, tbh. Maybe he will be eventually. At any rate, I doubt we're going to be seeing him any time soon.

CBK, now there's a thought! Look at who MP was looking at. My question would only be was he speculating on some of his suspicions, or were they all based on something reliable. Does that make sense? Even info roles can speculate incorrectly. Maybe I'll look back and see what his posts sounded like, and how certain/reliable his suspicions may be.

It has kind of unnerved me how quickly SVS mentioned Timmer and then several others jumped in and voted him immediately.

I definitely agree about pushing the low posters. I just don't like that tactic either. Especially when it is against players who are known for being low posters regardless of alignment. Imo DF has been consistent and shared suspicions all game. I would like to go back and look over all of DP's posts as well, to see if that seems exaggerated as well. So I will do that, and then see what I think.

Oh, I will also share that I have played with DP a couple (maybe even a few times) but I've not noticed any particular "style" other than slightly left of center. So I'm not going to be much help in that department.

After re-reading DFaraday, I find his thoughts to be pretty consistent all game. As for his level of quietness, I just mean I don't think one could pin him down as mafia or civ based solely on his number of posts. He has a consistency in his posts that means something to me. They didn't read to me as "fluff posts" or "filler posts" as I went through them. (Which doesn't take long since there aren't many. ) He said enough and was consistent enough to be believable for the time being, at least in my book.

I'll say though, my experience with him is limited. So I'm simply basing it on what I see in this game, and the small tidbits I've seen. I could be way off, so if someone who knows him better can chime in (or he himself, sorry for talking about you like you aren't here, DF) and share their thoughts, that's welcome.


DF - do you remember what game that was we had BTSC? I can't for the life of me remember. Sad, really. I should keep a mafia scrapbook, wouldn't that be fun? I can't even remember how many games I've played, or what the topics of them were, or who all I've been on teams with. And I was really trying to remember last night.

I've hosted DF once, I think, and I've played with him - I think we either had civ BTSC or baddie BTSC, but I can't remember which. He tends to be a low poster regardless of alignment ime. He did generally send in his PMs AFAIRemember. I could go back and reread his posts in this thread, and see what I think, but whenever I've played with him he's just seemed so low key, he flies under the radar regardless. I remember in our BTSC he even said that to me - his style is just to lay low.

(Quote snipped for space)

timmer wrote: I need to hear more from a lot of people: dp, svs, Borok, df, lt, indiglo, and also I don't remember much from Matahari lately?

....

In short, I've focused on MP for so long that I'm now unsure of my bearings.

Sorry I haven't been more active. I'm co-hosting a game and between that and some RL issues, I only have a little extra left-over time. So I didn't plan to go back and read what I've missed before I got here, and the only real thing I've noticed happening since I got here was all of MP's stuff. I shared my feelings on that, and now it's over... so maybe something else will actually happen that I can form an opinion on.

If I hadn't missed the vote last time, I would have voted MP. I didn't realize we were on a new day (oops!) so I have no idea who I will vote for today. Not very helpful, I realize... but it's where I'm at.

You may need a bit of a breather, my friend.

Boy that is a lot of text from MoPi that doesn't really say anything. There is a lot of potential analysis, but none of it uncovers anything. He doesn't even share a suspicion. The main thing I got out of it is that he thinks DP is Trogdor, and even if he isn't Trogdor he's still unhelpful. Then he mentions the names of a few low posters.

I think I will go back and look at Timmer's case, as apparently that is who is talking most about MoPi being a possible baddie. I'd like to see both sides to this.

RIP Deadies

And Mongoose, thanks for helping explain to me what was going on the game!

MovingPictures07 wrote:You're right, timmer, I never seriously considered voting for Vompatti. I have a really hard time reading him, thought he might be baddie this game, but couldn't think of anything he did that stood out as particularly baddie. Once BDH posted his case, I noticed right away that he had clearly contradicted himself, but even then I 100% sure, because Vompatti plays some really strange ass games sometimes, regardless of alignment. If you believe a baddie MP would act that way, by all means, but anyone who's played with me knows as his teammate I would have been all over sacrificing his ass long ago.

As to how to address all of those points about Vomps... there's really not much for me to say other than they are sincere and exactly what has been going through my mind all game.

As to my self-vote, there's a method to my madness. If anyone here actually believes Snow Dog's vote made sense, then I would LOVE to hear if they can explain it to me. I was in no danger of being lynched today; my major accusers had already voted elsewhere. I wanted to see if anyone would try and save Vompatti or not because my one vote probably wasn't going to make a difference in that assessment, and not only that, but it perhaps would have made the baddies think they COULD have saved him.

Apparently, they didn't try to save him. Not sure what that tells us yet about his presumably two remaining teammates, but it ought to tell us something.

I've been on the fence with this whole MoPi debacle. But I call shennanigans on these 2 contradictory thoughts. If you weren't sure Vomps was bad, why did you want to see if anyone would try to save him? Since he was getting the majority of the votes, you were about to find out his role anyway. Wouldn't it make more sense to try to lynch someone you actually thought was bad, and see if anyone "tried to save Vomps" by voting that way? Instead of voting yourself?

Yeah, this post cricked my brow and I call BS.

BigDamnHero wrote:So here's my quandry: the going theory is that Trogdor has been either absent or not paying attention (possibly that he's been very VERY unlucky with his targets). It has also been theorized that SVS is the top candidate to fall under these former parameters. How exactly does she defend against this? Whether she's trogdor or not, she has to deny everything, but she can't really argue against the circumstances around the events as they've played out (i.e. she hasn't been around and there've been no trogdor kills). And if she's any other character who has some sort of night power that we haven't seen yet, it'd still basically be like outing herself if something happens tonight that we haven't seen.

Sometimes it's surprising how much can be learned by the way someone reacts to suspicion / accusation / being mentioned. It's not always so much in defending behavior (though sometimes it is) as it is sometimes watching how they react, and exactly what avenues they choose to use as a defense.

I've been known to push people's buttons a lot in past games just to see how they react. Their reaction often tells me much - if it's a player I'm familiar with. I try to play with a different style now though, and stop pushing buttons so much. I remain intently interested, however, in how anyone attempts to defend themselves. A good defense has saved many a civ at the last moment, while a bad defense has clenched many a mafia lynchings.

That's just my own experience though, and everyone is different.

Yikes! Thanks Mongoose!

w00t! Excellent result!

RIP Vomps


So what is this business about huts?

There is no way I'm voting SVS. She may be bad, I don't know. But I don't vote for someone who has been accused and who is not here to explain their side / defend (unless it is 100% obvious that they are bad, and even then I like to hear from them anyway to confirm). Too easy of a scapegoat / setup situation and I don't buy into those. In fact, this may be an area of investigation for me moving forward... who pushed this idea, who supported it, etc.

With that said, the stuff on Vomps seems most solid to me at this point. I'm going to go ahead and vote.

*votes Vomps*


How exciting, my first vote in this humongous game!

A Person wrote:Don't most games have rules against targeting the same player more than once in a row?

All games I've played do. (As far as I can remember, at least.) No double targeting is a general mafia rule, although a host can do whatever they please I suppose!

MoPi, I have completely given up trying to get caught up in this game. The game I'm hosting is super busy, with lots of night contests, etc - and there are just too many pages here for me to actually get caught up on. There's just no way, unfortunately.

My current working strategy is to just try to keep up with what happens since I've joined, and then go back and read up on specific people if something seems pingy, or if someone else presents a case. It's not much, but it's about all I have to offer at this point in the game and my life.

Oi! 55 pages? LMAO Yeah, I don't think there's much chance I'm going to be able to catch up on the thread at this point... however as time permits I will try to at least catch up on the Host Posts, in hopes that they will give me an idea of wtf is going on in this game.