The Syndicate

Quick reminder: make sure to cc thellama73 on PMs! For now it is not a huge deal, but if you write something tomorrow and don't cc him, you probably won't get a response until Monday.

Announcements

1. I will be away this weekend, in Boston. My cohost thellama73 has agreed to handle my post-writing duties while I am away. He will be making the host post tomorrow evening, when Night 1 ends, and the Day 2 post on Sunday evening. I will be back Monday to write the Night 2 post. In my absence, please continue to direct PMs to both thellama73 and me.

2. Effective immediately, Vomps is replacing Dom. He may not be NKed tonight, nor lynched tomorrow.

3. After further consideration, I have decided that revealing previous roles (from the first round of role PMs) is permanently disallowed. The game was designed to be balanced with the information that was available independent of this change, and making these roles public leaves open another avenue for deception for baddies, which could in theory unbalance the game. Revealing what role you originally had will be considered tantamount to revealing your current role, and will be cause for punishment up to and including modkill.

That's all for now! I hope you all are enjoying the game so far, and I will see you in a couple days!

Day 1

If you had asked a bystander, they'd likely have told you that they expected gifted academics to be very reserved. The smart money would have been on a quiet Day 1, with some discussion but plenty of room for introspection.

The actual course of events could not have been further from the truth. Having made their introductions on Day 0, the economists awoke on Day 1 with many thoughts in their minds and one collective drive: make sure that as many people could hear their brilliant ideas as possible. What was expected to be a measured talk quickly devolved into a shouting match, and by day's end the rising cacophony could even be heard outside of the cavernous Hague, to the mild alarm of some passersby and the titillation of a gaggle of reporters. Many of the group called for more data, hoping that the more they could learn, the better they could stop the impending economic meltdown.

Two of the members even engaged in fisticuffs. Epignosis grabbed MovingPictures07 around the neck and tugged on his hair, shouting "IT'S A FAKE! THIS MAN IS A FRAUD!" MovingPictures cursed and snarled and even bit. Eventually the other men pulled them apart, but this did not signal a reprieve for the aural onslaught.

Another thing that an uninformed person may have bet on is that, in a room full of people concerned with economic welfare, a name like Golden would be worth its weight in gold. The uninformed person would be wrong there, too. As sunset approached, dissatisfaction with the lack of results in the "discussion" set in. Some members of the group decided that Golden needed to go, and so they banded together and chucked him out the window. This would have been fine for Golden if he had been on there first floor at the time; however, he was on the 3rd.

The passersby, who had been mildly alarmed, began to shriek when they saw his mangled corpse lying in a pool of blood. The Dutch considered, as they contemplated his name and now-stained blonde hair, that "throwing out the gold" was a very inauspicious sign for things to come.

Golden has been lynched. He was F. A. Hayek.
It is now Night 1. You have 24 hours to send in your PMs.

A little under 30 minutes to poll end! If you haven't voted, now's the time....you wouldn't want to miss the Day 1 lynch poll.

Important announcements will accompany the posts evening - keep an eye out for them, please.

MovingPictures07 wrote:First off, I just want to say I am thoroughly enjoying playing this game with all of you and that I hope sanmateo comes back feeling less frustrated (I understand the feeling) because I've been appreciating his input.

++++++++

Regarding my "different" style of play, Elohcin has provided a tangible reason, that I'm "cheerful", and several players have said that I seem more considerate of others' opinions. This is fair enough. But since it is clearly evident to practically everyone that I'm playing a different style, I have to know, is that all? What about my style is really different?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: MP: was a big aspect at the beginning, but I kind of buy his and other people's justification that he is trying to adapt to multiple communities and his return to mafia. To be fair, his style of being nice to others is how he acts pretty much everywhere I talked to him.
I think this is a fair representation about what could possibly be different about my posting style, but I don't see how that would play into my alignment.

Bass says, for example, that it's something to keep on eye on. Yet clearly regardless of my two alignments (since we received two roles) I have been this way the entire game, correct? Or have I not? Can someone clarify here?

++++++++

Regarding civilians not winning unless they are alive, let me elaborate. It seemed to be a general trend when I played games at Lostpedia and affiliated mafia sites, so when I started hosting I set mine up that way, but over time I have grown less and less happy with this policy. As MM noted, in Death Note, I allowed any player to win if dead so long as their win condition is established, and I was very happy with it. The problem, I believe, that many have with letting the entire faction win (either civilians or mafia, but especially civilians) is that some civilians may have contributed practically nothing to the cause, and the sense of accomplishment that accompanies surviving until endgame and defeating mafia makes for a more satisfying and exclusive win title.

That said, there are absolutely no hard and fast rules here at this site when it comes to many of these things, even open setups or whatever. It's all up to every single individual host.

Personally, I plan on incorporating dead wins as much as I can for reasons that DDL stated, but I still like to make people work for their wins.

++++++++

It's interesting that Turnip Head has pulled the trigger on Golden because there's a weird vibe to him that I've been getting all game, but have been waiting to see how he'd continue throughout the Day period. The feeling I am receiving from Golden is that he isn't being entirely truthful; I also think some of his statements have been questionable, such as being worried about a new person being bandwagoned, etc., particularly when many people here at TS tend to at least allow players new to the site somewhat or an entire free pass on Day 1.

I'm going to try to refine my opinions on players and can elucidate this further when I update my next Rainbow List. I'm curious what Turnip Head has to say further as well.

++++++++

Here is a Gender Guide, which I can now actually make since I know everyone's gender (thanks to Golden correcting me on TinyBubbles). :P

I typically include these in my games when I'm hosting, but I don't think many hosts do. Hope this helps. Blue is male and pink is female.

acrosstheaether
Bass_the_Clever
birdwithteeth11
Black Rock
Dom
Dragon D. Luffy
Elohcin
Epignosis
fingersplints
G-Man
Golden
JaggedJimmyJay
Metalmarsh89
MovingPictures07
Roxy
sanmateo
Sloonei
TinyBubbles
Turnip Head

Thanks for the gender list, MP! I only knew about 12 of 19, so the help is appreciated!

Golden wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Wait, what? This is terrible lol. This completely goes against the spirit of the game, imo. Which is that townies should work together to find scum and prioritize the team's victory over their own survival. If this is true, then I suppose it probably encourages the people on this site to be the game badly.

I mean, if all my effort to catch scum will be rendered moot since I might get day 1 lynched for putting myself in the spotlight, then I might as well shut up and try not to be too productive instead, if only to maximise my chances of survival. Seriously, this is beyond terrible.
Different people take a different approach to it.

I tend to get more satisfaction out of the town winning than I get out of a shiny winners banner.

In one sense it encourages people to be poor civilians, certainly. In another, it's just a different kind of game, not a 'worse' kind of game.

In any event, the existence of so many newbies with a different style may shake the meta.

Executive decision: Dead civs can win in this game. Economics is all about aligning incentives properly, and not allowing dead civs to win means they're incentivized to prioritize survival over getting baddies. It's a conflict of interest inherent in their win conditions.

Golden wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Just to be clear for myself and fellow noobs: once we submit a vote in the poll, it is final and we cannot change it again that day?
This is usually, but not always, the case on this site. The rules didn't seem to clarify, so maybe the hosts could clarify?

Correct! All votes cast will be final in this game. Unless I change my mind.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:one unfortunate note, at least for me:

the phases here will apparently be ending at inopportune times for me. i'll be leaving for work hours before the lynch deadlines, and i have no access to this game at work. i don't work at a desk, and moreover even when i am at a computer this site is blocked there. i've checked. i might be able to get involved on my phone a tiny bit, but i can't make promises. so most of my involvement in this game is going to have to be in the first half of day phases; i've no choice.

of course, that problem might be alleviated some if this game will be employing a hammer. will lynches be immediate upon reaching a majority vote, or are the deadlines fixed?

Deadlines are indeed fixed. Sorry! The deadline is what it is because of my work schedule, and me posting at day's end is pretty essential. The deadline will slowly get progressively later due to thread mechanics.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
sanmateo wrote:good thinking, can we post our previous roles or would that be game-breaking? do we even know if there was any alignment changes?
I am not the hosts, but I think this would be considered rule breaking; if not, it would be bad form, since the game is open setup, and role claiming is a huge no no around here. Just an FYI.

I will definitely not be posting anything regarding my previous role PM and I think it would be a waste of time to even discuss them.

Hmmm....Previous roles are completely unrelated to current roles in any way. Think of it as consecutive die rolls. So I guess revealing previous roles wouldn't technically be outing or claiming a role.

That said, I'm going to temporarily disallow it while I think through any possible implications it could have on the current game or roles. So don't do it for now, but if I change my mind I'll let you know.

Jay was that really you? I liked the song a lot! Reminded me of those prototype-rock-and-roll 50s type songs.

Death and Taxes: Day 1

The various brilliant minds started off by getting to know each other. They celebrated their diverse backgrounds and the exchange of ideas that such a fortuitous congregation of geniuses could facilitate. They also rocked out!

Some even began to preach:

Epignosis wrote:Redistribution belongs under your Christmas tree and not in your wealth.

At this, a voice was heard to mutter: "Unless you have this Christmas classic!"

The group immediately knew there were some among them who DID believe that the redistribution of wealth was not simply a means of pacifying the populace, but an actual defensible stance on economic policy! They cast their eyes around the room (figuratively, of course). These no-gooders HAD to be found...otherwise, they could drive the entire economy of Europe into the ground! (Note: most people present cared about this, primarily because they lived in Europe.)

However, no one could tell where the voice had come from. Who could possibly be behind such threateningly ignorant notions? And even more importantly, where HAD that damn bottle of '84 Chablis gotten to?

It is now Day 1. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.

So what is economics, exactly?

Poll ended at Tue May 19, 2015 5:04 pm

A branch of philosophy
4
Bass_the_Clever (5), JaggedJimmyJay (9), TinyBubbles (13), Roxy (17) 20%

A social science
8
Metalmarsh89 (2), sanmateo (4), Golden (7), MovingPictures07 (8), G-Man (10), Dom (12), Elohcin (14), Turnip Head (20) 40%

People making stories up to fit events after they happen
3
Dragon D. Luffy (3), Black Rock (11), Sloonei (16) 15%

A good way to trick people into giving you things
2
Epignosis (15), fingersplints (19) 10%

An excuse to make a mafia game (Hosts)
3
Russtifinko (1), S~V~S (6), thellama73 (18) 15%
Total votes : 20

Ok, second set of role PMs is out!

If you didn't get an amended role, got 2 roles, know someone else's role, fear someone knows your role, are confused about which role you're actually supposed to play as, or just want to gush about your new role, please PM the llama or me.

Cheers!

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT:

Due to unforeseen circumstances, all of your current roles are now null and void. New roles are being distributed.

As a result, Day 0 will still end tomorrow, but missing the Day 0 poll will be looked upon with extreme leniency.

Apologies for any inconvenience/disappointment this causes.

And just as we were discussing open setups, too....

MovingPictures07 wrote:Hosts: Any way we can get the role listing in the first few host posts somehow?

Thanks!

Yes!

I was wondering when that rap would show up! I dig it. #teamkeynes

Ok, role PMs are out and we are officially under way!

Keep in mind, Day 0 will now last approximately 23.2 hours. Unless tons of people haven't checked in, in which case we will extend it. No one has info on the poll.

Have fun out there!

The Story so Far...19 of the brightest minds in modern economic theory were summoned. They came from many different backgrounds, but mostly from Austria. Their task, at least on the surface, was simple. Europe was in decline; Greece, Italy, and Spain were weighing down the Euro, member states were electing parties whose main political platform was leaving the EU, and loads of French people were still wearing funny hats. The EU tasked these luminaries with a complete redesign of the continent's economy, from its very foundations up, in order to remain relevant in a world that was, increasingly, ignoring Europe.

They were given no rules or guidelines. Their decisions would determine the fate of an entire continent. Their first move was to lock themselves in the labyrinthine basement of the Hague, with no electronics and only enough supplies and wine to last 3 weeks. No one, not friends, nor family, nor the rich and influential, nor the loud unruly mobs of the working class, could be allowed to dilute the brilliance of this all-important conclave.

What the members didn't know was that some of them were so convinced they were right that they were willing to kill to get their way. And, as they would soon find out, a madman lurked among them...

Hi all!

You'll notice this thread is locked; you can't post in it yet. Llama has your roles and will be sending out PMs shortly (hopefully tonight). At that point we will unlock the thread and begin the game.

So that we can keep things moving once the game starts, I will create the Day 0 poll now. The poll will last for 48 hours regardless of when your roles actually come, assuming there is no major delay in llama getting you your roles. This will allow me to get the Day 1 poll up immediately after coming home from work on Tuesday.

The Laws of the Land:

The rules below are few, and relatively simple. For that reason, transgressions may be punished harshly. Commit them at your peril.

1. No being outside-of-game-context mean to people! We're all here to have a fun time.
a. This rule requires cessation of joking about another player when asked.
b. If you are feeling frustrated, posting in thread is likely not a good idea. Oftentimes taking a few hours to do something else can really help your mindset in these situations. Use your best judgment, and take time to think about the consequences of what you post.
c. If at any point you feel bullied, unwelcome, or uncomfortable, please bring it up to llama and it will be fixed.
2. No talking to other players about the game outside of the thread, except your assigned BTSC partners.
3. If you have game-related information that you did not get in the thread, then it is not supposed to be in the thread. Don't say it, and don't hint that you have it. This includes roles, PMs from llama or me, and information you figure out as a result of your Night power. If information you have doesn't fall into one of those categories and you think it might be private info, please ask llama or me before posting about it.
4. You may not target the same player with a Night power two days in a row.
5. This is my host color. Don't use it, please! Unless you are thellama73, in which case you may feel free to use it or to get your own.
6. Dead players must post in dead red.
7. For off-topic (non-game related) discussions, use this color (labeled OT in the post-drafting screen).
8. I urge you to consider carefully whether you must use sarcasm. See Rule 1. If you must, use sarcastic orange so that it is easily interpreted by others.

Death and Taxes

Long ago, two cavepeople, Ug and Ack, were sitting in the sunshine on a rock by a pond on a spring day not too unlike this one. Ug had two animal furs and was very, very warm, but very hungry. Ack had two sharpened sticks and had caught a pile of fish, but shivered in the breeze off the water. Ug looked at Ack's sharpened sticks, then down at her furs. At that time, you had to kill someone to get something you wanted from them, but Ack had sharpened sticks so she didn't like her chances there. Slowly the glimmer of an idea began to dance in her head. Ug placed a fingertip on her lower lip, and then lifted it in the air triumphantly. Then she began to hoot and holler and point from her fur to one of Ack's sticks. Ack had been very busy looking for fish to spear, but eventually he looked up and cottoned on to the idea. Trade was born! Soon both were sitting contentedly in the sun, full of fish and warm.

Soon, people realized you could "trade" all sorts of things! Everyone began carrying around as many objects as they could hold in the hopes of coming across someone to trade with (since they didn't have Netflix yet). This got very cumbersome, and remained so until the greatest of the Egyptian kings, Ankhahotep, one day got tired of carrying the royal throne on his back. "Enough!" he cried, but in Egyptian. "From now on, we're only trading things for gold!" Gold, of course, was still very heavy, so this was only a marginal improvement. Ankahotep decided to ease his subjects' burdens by taking half of everything they traded for the government. This was the first tax.

However, no one could think of a solution to the problem for a very, very long time. Eventually they just started handing out paper, and imagining that gold was attached to it. The economy was born! Eventually, an American president by the name of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, took the revolutionary idea one step further. He was at a great disadvantage in trading, because he had never seen gold and couldn't imagine it very well, so his money was worth less than other people's. Frustrated by never being able to trade properly (there was still no Netflix), he had the idea of just making the value of the paper up entirely! Now people make up all sorts of wonderful numbers, driven by "invisible hands", "animal spirits", "stocks", "inflation", and plenty of other made-up things that make it all very exciting but of course don't really exist.

Of course, ever since Ankhahotep introduced the idea, governments have been taxing as often and as much as possible. This is one way to get something you want without doing or giving anything in exchange. The other is murder. Which brings us to the pinnacle of human history....

Death and Taxes: an Economics Mafia
Brought to you by Russtifinko and thellama73

Roles:

Adam Smith - Invisible hand - Can direct action from behind the scenes (takes another player's power nightly)

Jean-Babtiste Say - Supply creates its own demand - Selling 2 or more of anything makes them worth $2 each, regardless of what others sell.

Carl Menger - Founder of the Austrian School/Marginal revolution - knows that every little bit helps, and has an extra vote for just that reason

Ludwig von Mises - Human Action - holds highly-attended lectures nightly (BTSC with one player every Night)

F. A. Hayek - Competing currencies - Makes his own currency, and yours doesn't count - Prevents a player from buying or using any items once per Night, and sells his items for untaxable Bollars instead of normal dollars.

Joseph Schumpeter - Creative destruction - Can destroy an item in his possession to get something better

John Nash - Game Theory - Make two players play a game of your choosing each night

Vilfredo Pareto - Pareto efficiency - Prevent target player from being made worse off at night

Paul Samuelson - Public Goods - Can share the use of another player’s item

Ronald Coase - Coasian bargaining/Property Rights - May not be stolen from/share his items

Milton Friedman - Monetarism - Can alter the money supply, doubling what the government pays for guns and butter once per 4 booms.

Murray Rothbard - Enemy of the state - Prevent redistributive actions.

Arthur Pigou - externalities - His votes also spill over onto the player to each side of the one he votes.

George Akerlof - asymmetric information - Role check

Mafia:

John Maynard Keynes - In the long run, we’re all dead - Kills nightly. If he dies, his kill passes to the next living member of his team.

Karl Marx - Dictatorship of the proletariat - Once per Night, chooses to target a player and destroy a random item (Kapital) they are holding, or to redistribute one dollar from a player of his choice to another.

David Ricardo - Ricardian equivalence - Prevents tax cuts

Robert Solow - Convergence/growth theory - uses technology to improve his items

Serial Killer:

Thomas Malthus - Malthusian population model - Is worried the population will outstrip humans' ability to supply themselves with food, so he keeps the population under control by killing nightly. If his victim has any Butter, he takes one from them.

The Economy:
Guns - takes one Night to produce. May be sold to the government on subsequent Nights. The value it sells for is determined by the supply; if more players sell Guns than Butter on a given Night, it is worth $1, but if more Butter than Guns are sold, Guns are worth $2. If both sell equally, they are worth $1.50 apiece.
Butter - Same as Guns, but vice versa.
Dollars - earned by producing and selling Guns and Butter.

Items:
Guns, butter, and dollars are not items in and of themselves, but can be used during Night periods as currency to purchase items. Once purchased (except for NK protects), items may be used at will.
1 Gun = Extra lynch vote
1 Butter = Remove a lynch vote from yourself.
1 Gun + 1 Butter + 1 Dollar = NK protect for tonight only
5 Dollars = Bribe someone's vote.
4 Guns + 1 Dollar = Extra kill
4 Butter + 1 Dollar = Lynch stop
4 Butter + 5 Dollars = Resurrect

Events:
Booms - triggered when more players produce than sell.
Busts - triggered when more players sell than produce.
Taxes - occur every 3rd day. Because llama is a co-host, it is flat and each player pays $1. Taxes are eliminated if Ricardo dies and Rothbard is still alive. If llama dies and Russti is still alive, we move to a proportional tax system and tax 30% of all earnings instead.

Participants (Listed Alphabetically):
acrosstheaether - Murray Rothbard - Lynched Day 6
Bass_the_Clever - Karl Marx - Lynched Day 5
birdwithteeth11 - Replaced by Golden 2.0
Black Rock - David Ricardo - Lynched Day 3
Dom Replaced by Vompatti, Wombat of Mystery.
Dragon D. Luffy - Killed Night 6 by Robert Solow
Elohcin - Thomas Malthus - Lynched Day 2
Epignosis - Killed Night 1 by Adam Smith
fingersplints
G-Man
Golden - F.A. Hayek - Lynched Day 1
Golden 2.0
JaggedJimmyJay - Killed Night 7 by Robert Solow
Metalmarsh89 - Killed Night 1 by John Maynard Keynes
MovingPictures07 - Killed Night 4 by Robert Solow
Roxy - John Maynard Keynes - Lynched on Day 4
sanmateo - Joseph Schumpeter - Lynched on Day 7
Sloonei - Killed Night 2 by John Maynard Keynes
TinyBubbles - Killed Night 3 by John Maynard Keynes
Turnip Head - Killed Night 5 by Robert Solow.
Vompatti

The Story So Far
Day 1
Night 1 - Golden is lynched.
Day 2 - Epignosis and MetalMarsh89 are killed.
Night 2 - Elohcin is Lynched
Day 3 - Sloonei is killed.
Night 3 - Black Rock is lynched.
Day 4 - TinyBubbles is killed.
Night 4 - Roxy is lynched.
Day 5 - MovingPictures07 is killed.
Night 5 - Bass_the_Clever is lynched.
Day 6 - Turnip Head is killed.
Night 6 - acrosstheaether is lynched.
Day 7 - Dragon D. Luffy is killed.
Night 7 - sanmateo is lynched.
Day 8 - JaggedJimmyJay is killed.

The Syndicate

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Death and Taxes: An Economics Mafia [DAY 7]