The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote:

fingersplints wrote:Epi was I that stupid spider the whole time or did I ever get upgraded?

Russti came this close to upgrading you to Moblin (he didn't know which person he was upgrading) the Day MR got lynched and did not. I believe that was the ultimate turning point in the game.

Ugh. I lost due to poor gold management. I probably could've managed a Wizzrobe and a Moblin.

I actually didn't do that partly because I was still afraid llama was a misguided civ at that point, and I didn't want him turning the lynch in the baddies' favor by mistake. I didn't have enough trust in my team, I guess, which is weird in mafia. The other reason I didn't do it was because I was Skyping my girlfriend when the lynch came down to the wire. Whatcha gonna do?

Oh! And S~V~S, I can't believe how normal you acted given your role! After seeing INH in the Tournament of Champions last year, I expected insane antics from Gleeok. Every day I was hoping we were lynching you, because I knew we weren't even close to a baddie and I wanted to see what would happen.

That was probably the most exciting game I have ever played in, day-to-day. I LOVED being able to figure some things out for myself, and not either being totally in the dark or handed info. I came home from work every day, and when the post came up I went to town with lists and rupee counts and logic trains. I really wanted to win this one for the civs. Thanks for the awesome game, Epi!

And llama, I thought at the beginning of the game you were acting less zany than normal and wondered if something was up. I was still getting my bearings, and other major discussions were going on, so I didn't follow up on it. Should have done. Anyway, you and your whole team played a really awesome game.

Linki: If we had lynched her yesterday, could we have still won?

I actually came out even on the money-making game, I think! I was kinda salty you guys were gambling my money, though. :P

I spent a LOT of rupees on your Patra. I wwas really torn between it and a Wizzrobe. Looking back, I wish I could get a do-over on that. If anyone had figured out who the baddies and/or I were, they could've stopped all Night kills. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20. I think I had like 60 Overworld and 80 Underworld rupees at the end. But I knew we needed voting power, and all my Overworld minions were dead.

The bait-buying was a clever strategy, llama.

And MM, you helped me a TON this game, so I'm glad the Patra ended up being you. Your suggestion to count rupees worked really really well. I actually found Elo and Ninja through that; the night of the crossword, I was able to count up how many I should've gotten, and when I saw that 15 were missing I knew they were bad.

That actually messed me up at first, though. On the night of the money-making game, I guesstimated how many I should've gotten. That's why I suspected you and fingers for a while; I thought there was no way we could've earned that many rupees on the Moon game, so I figured one of the people who voted 1 was bad, and that we had won money gambling.

Then, the night of the swastika puzzle, I was able to count that we got gold for 6 puzzles. That was why I was so curious about who turned one in; I knew I could figure out who was lying. Only 6 people said they turned in puzzles at first. If that had been true, all puzzle-doers would have been confirmed civs, meaning there were 3 baddies among 9 non-puzzle-doers. I was dead convinced you or fingers was bad, and so I made that huge case that morning. Then, when 3 more people said they had done puzzles, I realized the exact opposite was true and had to backtrack hard to not risk lynching either of you. I think it hurt my credibility a lot later, and put a ton of suspicion on me, so I was annoyed people hadn't told me sooner.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm definitely voting for llama tomorrow though based on Eloh's read of him.

I doubt that Made is Hyrulian. I'm a bit torn between ninja and Snow Dog from trying to sort out Eloh's thoughts. My own read has been civ on Snow Dog, which would leave ninja as the other option. Thoughts Russti?

Yeah, I personally am convinced Ninja is bad. She threw away her vote in the first poll where we had a real chance to get a baddie, and lo and behold Elo survived that one. Very very very shady.

My best suspicion for the third one is llama atm, but I'm not 100% on him yet.

llama, if I were to ask you to refrain from voting at all tomorrow to prove your civ intentions, could you agree to that? (This is presuming we can get a unanimous or nearly unanimous lynch on Blooper, of course.)

Metalmarsh89 wrote: I'm pretty sure Eloh had been pushing for a Made lynch since before we (except Made) decided she was bad.

I believe you on this, but do you ind finding a quote to support it? It would help my opinion of Made.

Linki: Welp, I was right.

Finally. Geez. That was well-played, Elo.

Was swamped at work. Tired. Glad nothing changed so I don''t have to think right now.

Linki: ^

My best guess is she has a shield and think it'll buy time.

We could all vote Blooper if that's the case, I suppose.

Made wrote:Wait just a Damn second, a mafia then exist in the tied vote!?!?!?!

Double checking stuff

Made wrote:Holy fuck, Russ is mafia.

Where is this coming from? I don't see anything indicating that a mafia member has to exist in tied votes. I am not bad, and I had almost definitely earned more rupees than Dom, so I am also confused about why he didn't die.

Also, I don't understand Epi's solution to the riddle.

Snow Dog wrote:I will vote Elo if that is what everyone wants. But if everyone wants to including Hyrule doesn't that mean that Elo is civ after all?

I think I solved the puzzle. Well i got an answer but I am way from certain

It is possible she's the river monster. I just don't see a single way she could possibly be civ. I'm hoping the river monster is dead, frankly. No offense to them, just that we need as many civs as we can get.

Made wrote:Just thought of a good paradox/WIFOM type thingy to screw with mafia. Everyone attempt to solve the puzzle on your own. If you solve it, announce it in thread, so Ganon can figure out who is civvie and who is mafia, If more than 5 people announce they've solved the puzzle, the answer should be posted in thread as it would mean baddies had also solved the puzzle.

I'm actually for announcing whether you've solved it. Obviously we know some responses can't be trusted, and I don't think revealing the answer is a good idea because of llama's point. However, announcing could be good.

So llama, and I correct if I say that you are on board to lynch Elo tomorrow and Ninja the day after?

And you live in Murder Park. What more proof does anyone need?

thellama73 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I can't believe you guys are trying to blame this one me.

Ok. I'm not convinced about you. So for interest name the three Hyrule.

Well, it's Eloh certainly. There's no civvie explanation for her survival. I bet at least one of the Eloh voters is Hyrule, since they knew she wouldn't die. Probably Made or Fingersplints. Nijuu could easily be the third, as Russ believes.

This is....plausible, but also silly. It's possible that the baddies had more than +3 votes and that it was locked up anyway. But it's much more likely they just had +2, and needed Snowie's vote to turn the tie into a dead MR. And who convinced Snowie to vote MR? Ding ding ding! We have a winner, and he's a camelid.

Haha such a freaking weird situation. The baddies are all outed, and I dunno if we have the time/vote power to get them.

I was trying to make this lynch come off as dramatic as possible specifically hoping they'd out themselves if they thought the game was at stake, but I don't know if it'll be of any help.

And in other news, the numbers are to our disadvantage. So we should avoid solving the puzzle in-thread unless we believe llama, Ninja, or Elo have gotten it.

Linki: Well I thought we were screwed before, but that looks freaking impossible lol.

So down....

Linki again: Epi would've ended it if victory just wasn't feasible, but we have to play it perfectly, I'd imagine.

thellama73 wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:So that's really much more of a summary than a case. Here's my pressed-for-time case, in a nutshell:

Mister Rearranger wrote:I can always switch back. I like ties.

I just worry about lynching a civ Eloh when I feel like I've participated less and deserve to go if any civ is going to go. :/

You are NOT lynching a civ Elo. And please don't be defeatist!

Let's start with voting record:

Day 1: Made 1.0
Day 2: Hedgie
Day 3: Boogs
Day 4: sabie
Days 5 and 6: me

So 4 confirmed civs, all of whom died, and me twice. (I am a civ, by the way.) Possibly the worst voting record in the game. But a baddie wouldn't vote 6 civs in a row because it's too obvious, you say?

Elo has a terrible voting record. Civs can have that too, but rarely have I seen one this bad from a civ. Especially one who says, and I quote,

Elohcin wrote: If I were to go with my gut (which is usually right btw) I would say...Russ, MR, and Made are the baddies.

Elo still has no suspicions at all, despite sort of suspecting me, Made, and MM. Waffle-y, much?

Much more importantly than that, throughout the entire course of this 7-day game in which she has helped lynch 4 civs, she has not once given a single reason for a vote other than "Well, other people are doing it", nor has she voiced one reasoned suspicion of anyone in the game!

She said earlier that she thinks the baddies are playing discreetly. Pot, kettle. I think Elo is avoiding naming any names or making any waves because she is scared to give away teammates.

Everyone has a terrible voting record. We haven't caught a baddie yet! I've looked at the votes a bunch of times, and no one's looks better than anyone else's to me.

Good job ignoring the entire thrust of my argument, which was that Elo not only has a bad voting record, as people defending her have said multiple times, but also has been extraordinarily careful not to contribute anything of use to the game.

Like I actually feel somewhat sick to my stomach. So disgusted. And very disappointed in you, Snowie, if you are good.

Ugh. I am so freaking frustrated right now.

Can we FINALLY all agree that I'm on the up-and-up and that Elo is bad? And that Ninja Blooper and llama are extremely extremely likely to be? It might be too late, but we should at least try.

So that's really much more of a summary than a case. Here's my pressed-for-time case, in a nutshell:

Mister Rearranger wrote:I can always switch back. I like ties.

I just worry about lynching a civ Eloh when I feel like I've participated less and deserve to go if any civ is going to go. :/

You are NOT lynching a civ Elo. And please don't be defeatist!

Let's start with voting record:

Day 1: Made 1.0
Day 2: Hedgie
Day 3: Boogs
Day 4: sabie
Days 5 and 6: me

So 4 confirmed civs, all of whom died, and me twice. (I am a civ, by the way.) Possibly the worst voting record in the game. But a baddie wouldn't vote 6 civs in a row because it's too obvious, you say?

Elo has a terrible voting record. Civs can have that too, but rarely have I seen one this bad from a civ. Especially one who says, and I quote,

Elohcin wrote: If I were to go with my gut (which is usually right btw) I would say...Russ, MR, and Made are the baddies.

Elo still has no suspicions at all, despite sort of suspecting me, Made, and MM. Waffle-y, much?

Much more importantly than that, throughout the entire course of this 7-day game in which she has helped lynch 4 civs, she has not once given a single reason for a vote other than "Well, other people are doing it", nor has she voiced one reasoned suspicion of anyone in the game!

She said earlier that she thinks the baddies are playing discreetly. Pot, kettle. I think Elo is avoiding naming any names or making any waves because she is scared to give away teammates.

Elohcin wrote:As I said before I see little pings in various people. It is hard to choose between them. However, if you know me, you know I don't like to throw a vote away. So...I will vote Hedge.

Fair enough. Day 2, no pings. She follows votes because she doesn't like wasting hers.

Elohcin wrote:As for my vote (which I have to do now) I am going to go ahead and *vote boogs* I think Snow Dogs gut may be right.

Day 3: following Snow Dog (and was busy partying). Again, fair enough. As I said around that time, fairly standard Elo play.

Elohcin wrote:Bye Boogs. Sorry I was wrong about you.

I have no clue where to start with the labyrinth thing. I am no good with directions.

Can't help with the puzzle. Again, fair enough I suppose.

Elohcin wrote:My thoughts are that the baddies are being very discrete because I don't think any of the cases against people are particularly strong, as Snow Dog said. And, on top of that, I am having a hard time finding a case against anyone even though I have reread individual players. But, I believe the strongest case (although not strong) is the one on Sabie. So...that is where my vote will go.

Day 4. Doesn't suspect anyone, but votes the person everyone suspects. A little weird even for Elo, not to have a single ping by D4.

Elohcin wrote:I went ahead and voted for Russ. I don't have good feelings about him.

Day 5 and the first ping! Yours truly. No rationale given, except that she doesn't "have good feelings" about me.

Elohcin wrote:Also, Yay no kill.

Russtifinko wrote:So since I'm out of town, no time for a case. However, I think Elo needs to be given a much closer look. Mainly because of her really really bad voting record. If anyone cares to look into that I appreciate it, and it's where my vote is going for today.

I know I have a bad voting record. I was just thinking (at the end of the last day) that I need to stop listening to the "crowd" but it is difficult when I still feel like everyone is playing so civ-like. I have not been in a game where its Day 6 and still I have no great suspicions. It is odd. My biggest suspicion is Russ, but still not crazy convinced.

The "Yay, no kill." just drips enthusiasm, right?

Note the "everyone is playing so civ-like". Still no major suspicions, except her still unexplained one of me.

Elohcin wrote:The votes I have cast were based of suspicions that other players have brought up. I just don't see anyone as very suspicious so far. If I were to go with my gut (which is usually right btw) I would say...Russ, MR, and Made are the baddies. I am voting Russ today as I did yesterday.

Still no reasons for any suspicions. She doesn't suspect anyone, but thinks Made, MR and I are baddie teammates. (Not MM, for the record.)

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 593#p97593

This here is an important post. Elo has decided it is so important that she get a suspicion that she goes back and reads every single player remaining in the game!

Two very important things to note here:

Elohcin wrote:Russ - He seems to have a lot of helpful things to say. He seems to be trying and coming up with suspicions, however I am not sure that his suspicions have much weight. So, I am pinged by that.

Nothing else to say, unfortunately. Rereading each player didn't really bring about any new pings, but there you go. Maybe you will be encouraged to do your own read through and post on everyone. I know many of us are getting discouraged by lynch results.

1) She now thinks I seem pretty good again, but is pinged by me too.
2) SHE READ THE ENTIRE GAME OF PLAYERS STILL ALIVE AND HAS NO NEW PINGS AT ALL....on Day 7!!

Elohcin wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:So who is bad?

Made? Russ?

I'm trying, but this is a difficult game. What do you think SD?

Still nothing.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:Holy shit, who switched????

I did, because there was a tie. But I do realize there are 60 minutes left and 3 votes yet to be cast.

Linki: Well I'll be darned...

Lolz. Good timing on that post, man.

Guys, we NEED more votes on Elo. I guarantee that if it's up for grabs, Ninja Blooper is going to vote MR, and the game will likely be over.

Again, if you think both candidates could baddies and you trust me to any extent, then there is absolutely no reason at all to vote MR over Elo.

Posting my case on her now, I am fervently hoping we can get 2 players to change their minds.

Holy shit, who switched????

Mister Rearranger wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Made wrote:I like an Elo Lynch, and I liked an MR lynch, but the fact that it's now between an eloh vs a MR is making me wavery. logically, if baddies are attempting a save they're not going to try to try to switch a mafia for mafia. I'm gonna have to keep my vote where it is. MR and Elo both look sus, but i don't like the sudden switch to MR. IF Elo flips baddie, these events will look really bad for Llama....

I am not worried about looking bad. I am worried about lynching the right person, and I am far more confident about MR than I am about Eloh.

Yet it's based on an idea that is flat out wrong, and when I alluded to why I wasn't around early in the game and what motivated me to pick my game up, you neglected to talk further about it.

You don't think I'd be the least bit riled up and out for baddie blood after my friend who I introduced to the site was mislynched in an overwhelming fashion?

llama, this. He said the day after it happened that he was pissed she got lynched, and I actually believe that he got involved because of that.

Oh, and llama I did elaborate somewhat on my trust of him when you asked last night. I think it's on this page or the last one. Idk if it helps you or not, but it puts some reasoning behind it.

Yeah it is, llama. MM has my full trust though, so if you really decide he's the best candidate you may as well vote me instead.

fingersplints wrote:When I brought up Elo days ago, it was "I was trying to set her up." Now all of a sudden she is a major lynch candidate. Just seems like its coming out of nowhere. (I know process of elimination at this point yada yada.)
meh I am so unsure atm. Have a couple hours still

This is true. I even actually got on you for your Elo suspicion, because I always think she's bandwagony. Like I said a few days ago, though, things change. Two of those things are my opinion of you, which did a 180, and the number of people alive. Like you say, partly process of elimination. There's more too, though. She could probably have bought a bomb by Day 4, and her posts since she's come up have done very little to dissuade me from suspecting her. If it makes you feel better, you can get Hipster Points for suspecting her before it was cool.

Snowie, I'm undecided on Made. He's one of a very few players I am undecided about, actually. I haven't loved or trusted his posts today, and since becoming Made 2.0 he's had wacky ideas that I don't agree with or find logical. Some of them may be detrimental to civs, but I can't tell for sure of that's on purpose. I do think if we manage to lynch Elo and/or Ninja Blooper today and tomorrow I'll have decided on him by then, so til that point waiting doesn't bother me.

Fingers, if you won't be around I am BEGGING you to vote Elo. I would build a case now if I could but I'm at work. I am almost entirely convinced MM is good. If u trust me in the slightest please go with me here. Lunching him might as well be ending the game, and I trust him almost as much as myself.

Llama, the part he thought was suspicious was that she said "I did have enough" not that she couldn't buy anything.

Dammit, people. If you're gonna make me build case after work, you'd better be around to change your votes when I do.

Russtifinko wrote:Seriously, people. We have 5 VOTES ON 4 PEOPLE already. If they stay where they are, the baddies get to lynch who they want and laugh all the way to post game. It literally is not possible for the civs to win this lynch without grouping on someone.

I don't know what more I can say. I think it should be abundantly clear from my behavior this game that I'm civ, and I've been right about every lynch this game (which has been pretty easy - I just had to guess 'civ' for anyone about to die). You guys gotta give me just one chance to help you get a baddie. I just need one day. If you can't do that, then please lynch me because I'll be too disgusted with how bad we've played to keep going anyway.

I will also say I've been working fiendishly making cases all game, and I've gotten little to no support despite getting a lot of "Hmmm, interesting"s. If you think I'm civ, you probably owe me the benefit of the doubt on just one case for the game. I feel like I'm talking at a wall this game.

Snow Dog wrote:My take on the Hyrule team at the moment. Made and Elohcin. Working on the third.

I agree with your Made suspicion at this point. And I already said the third - Blooper.

Seriously, people. We have 5 VOTES ON 4 PEOPLE already. If they stay where they are, the baddies get to lynch who they want and laugh all the way to post game. It literally is not possible for the civs to win this lynch without grouping on someone.

I don't know what more I can say. I think it should be abundantly clear from my behavior this game that I'm civ, and I've been right about every lynch this game (which has been pretty easy - I just had to guess 'civ' for anyone about to die). You guys gotta give me just one chance to help you get a baddie. I just need one day. If you can't do that, then please lynch me because I'll be too disgusted with how bad we've played to keep going anyway.

fingersplints wrote:I don't understand why I would bother when I said I didn't feel good about you and your response was you don't care what I think. Or how you don't understand how that is unenecesarily dismissive. I didn't ask you to bring up points why you were a civvie. But i don't see why one wouldn't care why someone they thought was a civvie would think about them. It's a close numbers game at this point and civvies need to stick together. it doesn't make sense to me

fingers, please reconsider your vote. I know MM frustrated you last night, but that doesn't mean he's a baddie. Nor does his statement about not being worried whether he dies. If i interpret that right, then I feel the same way - if we don't get a baddie today then it's over anyway, so you might as well kill me.

If you trust me even a little bit this game, do NOT vote MM today.

Made wrote:As for my vote, I'm still comfy on MR, but iunno.... either MM or MR has to be mafia at this point.

I'm not sure how I feel about Russ, but everything i said when i thought i was going to die Night 6 is still true, and has proven further to be true based on what/where everyone's votes are going.
If MR is Mafia, Then MM isn't and vice versa
If MM Is then Russ likely isn't.

So teams in my head right now would be
MM and Snow
or
MR and Russ.
MM and MR are both playing very finicky atm imo (which might be alignment irrelevant due to pressure/criticism, but iunno. all i'm confident in is that this lynch has the opportunity to be blown wide open if played correctly.

????

Why do either MM or MR have to be bad? Maybe I misread your posts earlier, but I haven't seen any type of case, argument, or analysis that explains why that would be the case. Frankly, it looks like bullshit to me.

I have to sleep. Should be a good discussion for tomorrow.

Yeah I checked. I put her at 39 without the moon game.

Edit: If she did the contest, she COULD be at 40. No guarantee, but it's at least possible.

thellama73 wrote:Russ, why are you confident about MM? There are three things that just happened that make me want to vote for him.

1. He has kept careful track of rupees. As I see it, people who are getting individual rupees (Hyrule) have more of an incentive to do this than anyone else.
2. He corrected Splints on how Hyrule's rupees work. It seems to me Hyrule would be more likely to know this rule and respond to her mistake than anyone else.
3. He misstated Blooper's rupee supply to remove her from the suspect list. Could be an honest mistake, could be an attempt to protect a teammate.

You're not wrong, there. He's known what's going on for a while now, though:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Made wrote:MM maybe saying what he's saying to gain civvie points when I flip civvie, so iunno. Logically this means he's probably not third party, so there's that.

I'm excited for this game, so I read all the rules and know what's going on.

After responding to your post, I realized I probably should have held off. I did potentially ruin a chance for a baddie to slip by pointing out the rules. I also didn't think about setting you up. Your post read to me as genuine, and I didn't think it would be interpreted otherwise.

And he's using his knowledge/ideas to help Ganon's Army. I just don't see a baddie making this post, ever:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:So the gambling game from last night involved 7 players (by my count) voting. 2 for first, 2 for second, and 3 for third. These were the results.

Epignosis wrote:Based on a random drawing:

The first option = -10 rupees
The second option = +10 rupees (Push)
The third options = +20 rupees

For exmple, if Ganon won 70 rupees, there are only 2 possible outcomes for this.

1) Ganon's army ---> - 10*1 vote for first (-10) + 10*2 votes for second (+20) + 20*3 votes for third (+60) = 70 rupees ---> this leaves one unaccounted vote for first, meaning that one of the two voters for first is NOT in Ganon's army.

2) Ganon's army ---> - 10*0 votes for first (0) + 10*1 vote for second (+10) + 20*3 vote for third (+60) = 70 rupees ---> this leaves three votes unaccounted for, which means both players who voted first, as well as one player who voted second are NOT in Ganon's army.



Addendum: This is definitely a complicated way of figuring out who the baddies are, but if Ganon is a mathematically inclined player, then he could potentially deduce it. Now of course if Ganon lost 10 rupees overall, then there would be far too many outcomes to try and figure it out, but I think this is worth noting.

Linki: You're wrong. She won at least 27 rupees for the contests (kakuro and crossword), plus 8 if she voted every day, plus 2 or 4 for voting in the opening polls. So if she did the moon contest (which very few people admitted to) she'd be at 40, right?

Linki again: Geez, stop posting so fast! Can't a guy get a word in edgewise?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Russtifinko wrote: Linki: MM, I did NOT bomb anyone. And as llama said, since some puzzles were by PM, it'll be hard to figure out, but I'm up to look into it with you.

fingers, you should start puzzling! And mafia are the only ones NOT pooling rupees, according to Epi's roles section.

Double Linki: Thanks for doing the math! That actually helps me out a lot. You messed up on the 3rd contest, it was 10+5 for a unique answer, for a total of 15. So Ninja could definitely have had enough rupees to kill on N4, and she admitted to being an active puzzler.

Triple Linki: Again, good math. So me, you , Eloh, and Ninja are the suspect pool for the N4 kill.

You'll notice I'm intentionally separating you and myself from the rest of the possibilities.

I'm confused about the third contest though, why would there be 15 rupees for it? I may have jumped the gun voting Eloh, but we can continue to discuss. I agree that ninja bloops is more likely to win from contests, as she? said she is good at them.

Yes, that narrows it down to the four of us.

Epignosis wrote:I am extending Night 3 to 7pm EST tomorrow evening. This will put us where I want us to be for Host posts. Also, there may be more than one solution. Five bonus rupees to anyone who PMs me first with each solution.

My own emphasis added.

I forget why I thought it was 10 to start with; I can't see where he said that. However, it is 5 in addition to something else. Since you put Blooper at 39 max, anything else would get her to the 40 she needed for the bomb.

fingersplints wrote:If you are convinced MM and MR are civvies, then who is the third baddie in this Elo/ninjablooper scenario?

Also, thanks for cutting that for relevance. I thought about doing it myself, but I'm pretty lazy like that.

No problem. And good question. I have it narrowed down to very few, I think, but I'm still working out all the connections. If you don't mind, I'd prefer to keep it quieter for now, until (if) we have any success today and/or tomorrow. I hesitate to give the baddies too much warning, or to single out people I think are civ.

Mister Rearranger wrote:Russ, this is difficult. The two at the top of my list are MM and Snowie.

For the third spot, I'm struggling with a toss-up of Niju and Eloh.

Splints and Llama after that, in my "not confident, but leaning civ" group. But I've wavered and swapped them with Eloh in my mind at various points during the past 2 days as well. :/

And finally, feeling nearly confident that you and Made are good.

I know, man. I know trust is exactly the opposite of standard mafia behavior. But the way I see it, your list fits fairly well with what I'm saying. You say you're nearly convinced I'm civ; and Elo and Ninja are #s 3 and 4 on your suspect list. Of course, they're not your top candidates, but you do seem to suspect them a little bit. And like I said before, we need every single civ involved for this lynch. A little compromise may be worth getting that.

thellama73 wrote:Well this is a pickle. At the top of my list are MR and Made.

Then Splints.

Then Eloh, MM and Snow Dog.

I think Russ is civ, and I have been trusting nijuu this game.

Yay, I made a pickle!

Seriously though, this isn't quite as similar to my list as MR's is, but I'm happy to talk it through. Anything you want to hear as far as my opinions or reasons for them on any of the players (especially MR, Eloh, and Ninja), I'm happy to share if it'll help you decide.

Linki: MM, I did NOT bomb anyone. And as llama said, since some puzzles were by PM, it'll be hard to figure out, but I'm up to look into it with you.

fingers, you should start puzzling! And mafia are the only ones NOT pooling rupees, according to Epi's roles section.

Double Linki: Thanks for doing the math! That actually helps me out a lot. You messed up on the 3rd contest, it was 10+5 for a unique answer, for a total of 15. So Ninja could definitely have had enough rupees to kill on N4, and she admitted to being an active puzzler.

Triple Linki: Again, good math. So me, you , Eloh, and Ninja are the suspect pool for the N4 kill.

fingersplints wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:
The logic here is pretty great imo.

Hey fingers, on a side note, I don't see a vote from you in the last lynch, nor any explanation about why not. Care to explain and/or state whom you would have voted for?

Are you being sarcastic? It reads like it could be, so just checking to make sure.

It's been a really busy weekend for me. I only just got "home" I don't get to see my family and friends much since moving out of the country. I'm working full time when home, and since people know I only have a couple of weekends left everyone is scrambling to do fun stuff with me before I leave! I am trying to sponge off people's wifi and post when I can.
I did say who I would have voted for though:

fingersplints wrote:rip Liz. not sure how you got lynched today. really seems random
to whoever said I was teammates with MM, I am absolutely not. When I was questioning him on the llama thing it's because I think he is a baddie, and would have likely gotten my vote today had I not missed it

Oh, yeah I see hw you could see that now. No sarcasm intended. I was partly surprised, because you named the two people who are heads and shoulders above anyone else at the top of my list - Elo and Ninja Blooper.

And thanks for the explanation and finding your vote post.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:It's not like Rob to have a grammatically inconsistent thread title

Russtifinko wrote:Holy cow, guys. I know I was gone all weekend and didn't say much, but 2 things:

1) Buck up! It's not over yet. I agree that getting a baddie today is critical. Which leads me to....
2) The vast majority of you are barking up very wrong trees. Our numbers advantage is dwindling, and I think we need to be united on today's lynch. No more of this 4-votes-on-one-person, 2-on-two-others, and three random votes stuff. If I have any cache or civ cred with any of you, I am begging you to put some trust in me for one day. I am serious when I say that I think looking at any of the candidates I'm seeing discussed will throw the game away today. If I am wrong, then please lynch me tomorrow and I will even vote myself until I die. To be honest, though, I think the baddies will win otherwise.

I know Point #2 might sound pompous to some of you, and I apologize if that's the case. But many of you are saying you're not even trusting your own reads anymore this game, and about the last 4 lynches have been determined by people effectively saying "Well, I guess that person sounds ok to lynch. I don't have anyone better.". I am very confident in mine, and I think I've proven beyond most reasonable doubt that I'm trying to win this for the civs.

Linki: Yeah, Made, maybe this is why you and I were so at odds about the Triforce earlier. Individuals win them, and if you get all 3 you win automatically and independently of your team. The baddies also will win if we are all dead, and Epi put the bit about them getting the Triforce in because if everyone else is dead they will by necessity get all the pieces. Epi, please correct me if that understanding is wrong.

I'll be honest Russ, this post pings the hell out of me. You missed an entire day and a half, you return and tell us what we should do today, but I get the feeling you intentionally didn't name any names. This is especially evident because you said you are "very confident in your reads". What reads? Day 5 is the last time you mentioned anyone (Elo). I really wanna think you're good, but this post just sent my own thoughts in the opposite direction.

That's fine. I listed some names above. I did intentionally not mention them at first, because I didn't want to bother with their reactions just yet, and I wanted to see whether the idea would garner any support before I started making more accusations as that seemed to turn people off last time.

To be fair, I did say I was leaving and had (imo) a good reason. I don't think the fact that I was busy should have anything to do with your opinion of my civvie/baddieness.

Basically, I'm trying to set up a very specific scenario here. I'm intentionally using any and all civ cred I've gotten over the course of the game to try to get you guys to band together and (hopefully) help me get a baddie. If I can't do that or am wrong, I figure the game is over anyway, and you might as well kill me since it'll be my fault. However, I don't think I'm wrong. If as you say in your post, you "really wanna think you're good", I'm asking you to go on that read of me, because what I'm doing now is based mostly on that cred. If anyone is confused and not trusting their reads overall, as many are, I'm asking them to just make a read on me and decide. If you can't stomach following my lead, I understand; trust in mafia is often suicidal. And if you really think I'm bad after everything in this game, vote me. But don't throw a single random vote onto someone who won't be lynched, because we need all hands on deck.

I am happy to present a case as well and let you decide, but I thought for the moment this approach was more likely to yield results. I've made at least 3 major cases and had no support for them, so instead I'm staking this one on my reputation and a cry for help.

thellama73 wrote:RIP Dom. You were my on my suspect list, so I guess that narrows down my decision today.

Made, I am not comfortable with all these assumptions you're making.

Russ, I completely agree with you, and I have come to believe you are civvie, so I am with you. I want to reread MM before voting, but right now I feel worst about MR. What do you think about MR and MM?

I am almost entirely convinced they're both civ, despite having butted heads with MM a good deal and MR being real friendly.

fingersplints wrote:

Elohcin wrote:RIP Dom.

@ Splints: Maybe Elo what?

Made wrote:

Mister Rearranger wrote:

Made wrote:It should be noted that Ganon is still alive, and everyone who originally won piece of the triforce still has their piece.

Except the dead ones.

Nope, If there were any dead ones, the piece would be put up for competition to be won again.

Excuse my ignorance (I know I say that often) but is the reason we know Ganon is still alive because the "piece" has not gone up for competition?

I'm trying to figure out who else could be baddies in the highly unlikely situation that MR, MM and Russ are baddies. I still feel good about llama. Made, while I dont always understand his motivation, I can't think of any possible baddie rational behind it. I was serious when I said civvies can win. They just need to work together and I hope I am not misplacing my trust here. (being right about Dom is a small comfort )
so if not those three. You, SD, or ninja

The baddies would have had to get incredibly lucky to get all the guardians by now, Made. So while I agree with your assertion that Ganon is still likely alive. I don't understand your point for making it.

The logic here is pretty great imo.

Hey fingers, on a side note, I don't see a vote from you in the last lynch, nor any explanation about why not. Care to explain and/or state whom you would have voted for?

Holy cow, guys. I know I was gone all weekend and didn't say much, but 2 things:

1) Buck up! It's not over yet. I agree that getting a baddie today is critical. Which leads me to....
2) The vast majority of you are barking up very wrong trees. Our numbers advantage is dwindling, and I think we need to be united on today's lynch. No more of this 4-votes-on-one-person, 2-on-two-others, and three random votes stuff. If I have any cache or civ cred with any of you, I am begging you to put some trust in me for one day. I am serious when I say that I think looking at any of the candidates I'm seeing discussed will throw the game away today. If I am wrong, then please lynch me tomorrow and I will even vote myself until I die. To be honest, though, I think the baddies will win otherwise.

I know Point #2 might sound pompous to some of you, and I apologize if that's the case. But many of you are saying you're not even trusting your own reads anymore this game, and about the last 4 lynches have been determined by people effectively saying "Well, I guess that person sounds ok to lynch. I don't have anyone better.". I am very confident in mine, and I think I've proven beyond most reasonable doubt that I'm trying to win this for the civs.

Linki: Yeah, Made, maybe this is why you and I were so at odds about the Triforce earlier. Individuals win them, and if you get all 3 you win automatically and independently of your team. The baddies also will win if we are all dead, and Epi put the bit about them getting the Triforce in because if everyone else is dead they will by necessity get all the pieces. Epi, please correct me if that understanding is wrong.

As I said yesterday, still also not convinced Dom is bad. He was just the one I felt least certain was good who was on the poll yesterday.

Linki: No dissuasion here, Snowie. I still think Elo would be best obviously

And btw, I solemnly promise not to renege on being suspicious of Elo

So since I'm out of town, no time for a case. However, I think Elo needs to be given a much closer look. Mainly because of her really really bad voting record. If anyone cares to look into that I appreciate it, and it's where my vote is going for today.

Also MM, thanks for reconsidering on me

LizKeen wrote:I didn't intend to solve it in the chat, it was really more a question for Epignosis. I would say do not solve this one openly.

Oops. Why not?

Oh and Dom, I didn't think of that! Someone could decide our fates at any time

Made wrote:I don't like this, at all.

Simple yes or no question, does any one know why the possibly survived?

I'll refer you to this:

Russtifinko wrote:

LizKeen wrote:Don't thank me yet, you could still die. But if Dom does and is Hyrule it really narrows down the list of people I'll have to look at.

Very true. On the other hand, you may have saved me anyway. In previous games I believe Epi has sometimes resolved ties by not killing anyone. He did promise us death today though, so we'll see I guess.

Called it, I guess?

Any thoughts on the riddle? I was thinking it could be a part of him, like his tongue or something. Could be musical too though, with that link.

Oh and Made, why does earning lots of rupees make someone probably bad? You lost me on the logic there.

Linki: Duh, we're solving it in-thread. Again, math.

LizKeen wrote:Don't thank me yet, you could still die. But if Dom does and is Hyrule it really narrows down the list of people I'll have to look at.

Very true. On the other hand, you may have saved me anyway. In previous games I believe Epi has sometimes resolved ties by not killing anyone. He did promise us death today though, so we'll see I guess.

Oh thank God. Or thank Liz, in this case. And Made, you had me going, man! Thought you were gonna save me. Rude, teasing like that.

Don't vote splints! Read like the last page and a half, and then vote Dom please.

Haha sucks when no one is paying enough attention to save you...

MM and fingers, if you're around, it'd be hunky dory if you could reconsider one last time. Even if it doesn't change your mind, I'd consider it a favor if you looked over my behavior one last time and ask yourself how a baddie fits into that.

I know I went after both of you very hard, and that can be a VERY tough thing to get over in a mafia game. But ask yourself why it'd be worth it to go after you so hard when I had to know I'd take heat for it, as well. Especially considering the baddies are outnumbered even more than usual this game. There's only 3; why waste a life with no heat on it? And ask yourselves why I'd reconsider both cases and flip so quickly if I weren't at least trying to go for a civ victory, here. As a baddie it would make even less sense to throw my life away AND lose all the hard work I put into those cases by backing off, but as a civ reconsidering when new facts present themselves is natural.

Also, Made, you can still tie this up, buddy.