The Syndicate

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Why would Bullz self-vote? Unless he was cursed.

Welcome MP, nice to see you again!

As for Bass 2.0 voting for timmer as well without saying anything, I don't know what to make of it.

Have you been reading his posts? He's not interested in doing anything but feeling sorry for himself because I and BF and Rabbit suspect him.. It's literally three people. I can't understand why he is so upset over it.

Thank you Monkey Grodd for sparing my life. Perhaps I was too hard on you.

Don't worry We'll get 'em next time.

Devin, here is a summary of why Bullz caught my eye this game. I admit it's a more subjective "feelings-based" case than I usually make, but given the lack of BTSC in this game, it's what I had to go with, and I still feel the same way.

thellama73 wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Just curious.
Any pings yet? If not, I request that you give our old friend Bullzeye a read.
You said I was your only ping but then you said you might vote Aces. So much for 'only'. Care to explain why I'm so pingy to you?
Aces is not a ping, I just might vote him for being a low poster.

Anyway, I'm extremely glad you asked!

*ahem*

In this game, it appears that BTSC connections are not a good indicator of baddieness (I say "it appears," although I do not like making assumptions when there are so may secrets.) So how to catch the baddies? You have to get inside their heads. I'm looking for people who know they are bad and therefore think "Oh, I don't want to be caught, better be careful!" I am looking for people posting in such a way to lead me to believe that this is their thought process. That's my baddie hunting strategy in general this game.

Now, in particular, I just got through watching you play a very adept baddie game in the comfort of your BTSC chat, and as I watched, I observed your behavior. I observed that you were very helpful and nice and tried to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. You are doing that. Now's the part where you say "I do that every game!" Well, maybe you do and maybe you don't, but I am seeing the baddie Bullz I just saw.

thellama73 wrote:
Bullzeye wrote: Did you see the part in btsc where I said I always play my baddie game because it's the only game I know? Did you see the part in this game where I've been helpful and nice and given everyone the benefit of the doubt? All I've said this entire game amounts to "sometimes a joke is just a joke". What do you mean looking for people who know they are bad? Everyone knows their role. Everyone knows if they're good or bad as far as I can tell.
I was trying to go to sleep, but this post kept gnawing away at my brain until I finally realized why. Why does Bullz word his response in this way? Why does he say "I always play my baddie game"? Why not "I always play my civvie game" or "My baddie game and my civvie game look just alike"?

If he always plays his baddie game, that means he is playing it now. Why would anyone admit to playing their baddie game? Keeping my psychologist hat on for a moment, I think Bullz is being betrayed by his subconscious. Maybe even, on some deep level, he wants to get caught.

I'm going to go ahead and place my vote on him for now.

thellama73 wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:Why would such a person 'want' to get caught? Why would anyone for that matter? I want to win. You don't win by dying.
Why does a criminal return to the scene of the crime? Why do serial killers intentionally leave clues to their identities? For most, the urge to do evil is accompanied by either a sense of guilt that drives one to subconsciously seek correction, or else a desire for recognition of one's evil deeds. The latter is why kids post videos of themselves committing crimes on youtube. The conscious desire to avoid detection exists, but it is at war with the subconscious desire to be recognized for one's achievements, heinous though they may be.

Bullzeye wrote:I'd actually like to see cases against me. I'd like everyone who plans to vote for me to explain in detail exactly why. That way everyone knows who to stop listening to once I flip civ. I'll probably be voting myself anyway FWIW.

See, it's this kind of petulance that makes me feel bad about you, Bullz. You sound like a baddie angry about being caught for the wrong reasons, and you haven't let it go since I first brought up your name. Instead of being proactive and coming up with alternative suspects, you just complain that my suspicion of you is unfair and predict that you will get NKed over and over again.

Welcome Devin!

Bullzeye is bad. Roxy is bad. I'm good, and so are several of my friends. I think that's all you need to know.

Roxy wrote:Worst result possible!

Llama lynch me if you would like - but you given no reason nor did you bother to respond to me.
You said you would be looking at your voters but you have done nothing to help. Since you are a confirmed civ you need to take more of a leadership role. Stop the nonsense and actually try.

I am not going to become your next bullzeye (see what I did there?) I wil no longer defend if you all want to lynch me just do it. but a reason would be good.

Don't tell me what to do, Roxy. I gave a reason for suspecting you. I still suspect you. You can't bully me into changing my mind. I have to lead? I have to do no such thing. Virtually no one in the thread is leading. Go after one of them. I'm already a target for NKs since everyone knows my role, and you want me to stick my neck out further? Well, as the philosopher Jagger said, you can't always get what you want.

I tried to tell you guys he wasn't bad. RIP BF.

It would seem our illustrious host is tardy again. I think we should have lynched Roxy, but I was serious when I said I didn't know who BF is, so I guess we will see.

Bullzeye wrote:
thellama73 wrote:You know, I was willing to drop my suspicion of Bullz for a while. He sounded authentic in the wake of my lynch. But the constant whining about an impending NK is starting to feel forced. I'm not quite sure what to make of it, but it is starting to swing me back in the "suspicious of Bullz" direction.
Am I talking about an impending NK? No. I'm talking about one that would have happened in a certain circumstance. Don't twist my words.

I am hunting scum. what are you doing?

srsly, rvs, sus(s)

FZ. wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Timmer what do you think of BF?
Why isn't llama answering this? There's a chance I'm going to vote for BF. His suspicions seem too easy, and have you noticed that he focuses on one player per day? It's like he doesn't need to bother himself with commenting on all the rest because he already has a suspect. In my opinion, that's usually more a baddie tell than a civvie one

BF's defense of me was odd and unexpected, but I do not read him as bad. I don't think baddies stick their necks out like that.

You know, I was willing to drop my suspicion of Bullz for a while. He sounded authentic in the wake of my lynch. But the constant whining about an impending NK is starting to feel forced. I'm not quite sure what to make of it, but it is starting to swing me back in the "suspicious of Bullz" direction.

Well, since I will probably by night killed tomorrow, I might as well go for broke today. From beyond the grave, I saw this post of Roxy's and became convinced that she is bad.

Roxy wrote:Bye llama I do not understand why you would want to draw so much attention to yourself with your monkey antics with such an important role. :/

You thought I would draw attention to myself as a mafia member, but not as an important civ role? That's disingenuous, and phoney, and I think you're bad, and I'm voting for you right now.

Roxy wrote:I am glad neither got lynched. I feel better about Aces and neutral feeling on Daisy.

Welcome llama I am sure we all will look forward to your fresh take on things.

Expect bloddy revenge on those who killed me.

Oh hey guys.

I love the Flash way more than Bass. It should have been me!

Rezz please.

Rezz please.

This kind of last minute shenanigans is why I hate changeable votes.

Well, I came back too late from a meeting to change my vote and save myself. I hope someone stops the lynch. If not, it has been fun briefly playing with you guys.

Welcome Timmer! Should we lynch you right now, like Epignosis wants to?

Soneji wrote: -Llama talks in a manner that speaks of self-interest and nonchalance, traits that are more associated with mafia who have more knowledge and vested interest in their individual performance over that of a townie who should care more about the group.

Hi, Soneji!
We haven't played together before, but I am looking forward to getting to know you. My training is in economics, so I am always concerned with self-interest and incentives. I also have a notoriously nonchalant way of conducting myself. I hope you will come to know and love this about me.

Roxy wrote: Llama - your explanation of your - I couldn't sleep comment made you look worse imho.

That's fine. I just thought it was worth expanding on since FZ misunderstood what I meant.

I wish to make a clarifying remark on my "trying to sleep" comment that FZ has called a blatant lie. I wasn't literally lying in bed, unable to fall asleep because of mafia. I was very tired and would have dropped off at once if I could have gotten to bed in the first place. What I meant by the comment was that I was running around trying to take care of various things late at night when I would rather have been sleeping. Every time I thought I was finished and about to get into bed, I would remember something else I had to do, and be forced to put off slumber for another few minutes, which I found irritating. On one such attempt, Bullzeye's post roared into my head like a freight train and I felt an immediate need to respond to it, which prevented me sleeping until I made that post.

I apologize if I was unclear on this.

Long Con wrote: Whoa... this monkey is talking now??!

Not just talking, dancing!

Long Con wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Long Con wrote:He was asking to be King of the Morlocks in that game, and people got suspicious, and lynched him, and he was Civ. Now he's doing it in this game, and I see it as a heavy-handed way to get people to say "Well, that's clearly Civ behaviour, look what happened last time, we lynched a Civ!" I don't think it's the kind of tactic a Civvie would be using, I think it makes sense that he's a baddie that wants to play off a previous game to seem more Civvie.
Did it ever occur to you that I just really liked being King of the Morlocks and am waxing nostalgic for a chance to relive my glory days?
No.. that never occurred to me because I was under the impression that you got lynched for campaigning to be the King of the Morlocks, so you wouldn't have actually BECOME the King of the Morlocks, and would have had no glory days to relive because of it.

Oh I was king all right. Oh, what a king I was.

I actually wasn't lynched or NKed in X-Men. I survived until the end, but lost due to a technicality. A quick site search for "Morlocks" will reveal this and many amusing posts by me.

Long Con wrote:He was asking to be King of the Morlocks in that game, and people got suspicious, and lynched him, and he was Civ. Now he's doing it in this game, and I see it as a heavy-handed way to get people to say "Well, that's clearly Civ behaviour, look what happened last time, we lynched a Civ!" I don't think it's the kind of tactic a Civvie would be using, I think it makes sense that he's a baddie that wants to play off a previous game to seem more Civvie.

Did it ever occur to you that I just really liked being King of the Morlocks and am waxing nostalgic for a chance to relive my glory days?

Okay, so the knock against me is that people think I am trying too hard to act civvie. I get that. But at least I am not trying too hard to be bad like Bullzeye!

Epignosis wrote: With her having no knowledge or interest in the theme, I figured that she would commit herself if she had BTSC, and I would have left her alone (well, in that case, I still might have Night killed her, but I can't).

Who the heck is the Flash anyway, and why is there a talking monkey? Am I right, Eloh?

Black Rock wrote:something has been a little too much from Llama this game.

Am I more llama than you can handle, BR?

Metalmarsh89 wrote: What would having BTSC with Epignosis prove?

It would prove that they both have roles that have BTSC, which narrows things down considerably.

FZ. wrote: I didn't say this is what you're doing now, but rather that you're trying to look like you are. Still, for what it's worth, if you tell someone this is how they are going to react, and they are bad, wouldn't they try to do something else to make you rethink?

Not necessarily.

FZ, how is my suspicion of Bullz "narrow minded"? Am I supposed to throw out four or five names I find suspicious? I don't have that many pings yet. Is everyone else who has already voted equally narrow minded? Am I supposed to have changed my mind on Bullz based on his response? If you recall, I predicted exactly what his response would be in my initial post, so why would he saying what I knew he would say change my opinion?

FZ. wrote: Next up, llama

rabbit8 wrote:lol, you guys are ridiculous. Do you say the same things over and over ad nauseam every day 1 and suspect the same people every day 1for the same things just to annoy me?????????????

Who would you prefer me to suspect and why?

Bullzeye wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:
blindfaeth wrote:I didn't need to defend, I was on the attack. You're being nonsensical. How did I do a no u? I pointed out something suspicious you did and suspected you for it. The very definition of a no u is that you suspected me first.
I said people are taking jokes too seriously. You seemingly saw that as "BF is a baddie because he's questioning Epi" and then said "Oh, are you and Epi teammates again then?". That to me looks like a pre-emptive NO U just in case I decided to build a case against you later on. Which I still don't plan on doing, just in case you're worried.
I definitely don't think you have BTSC with Epi, because if you did he would be telling you to ramp down your defensiveness.
I'm always defensive. Especially when faced with incredibly ridiculous accusations.

So are you saying you do have BTSC with Epi?

Bullzeye wrote:
blindfaeth wrote:I didn't need to defend, I was on the attack. You're being nonsensical. How did I do a no u? I pointed out something suspicious you did and suspected you for it. The very definition of a no u is that you suspected me first.
I said people are taking jokes too seriously. You seemingly saw that as "BF is a baddie because he's questioning Epi" and then said "Oh, are you and Epi teammates again then?". That to me looks like a pre-emptive NO U just in case I decided to build a case against you later on. Which I still don't plan on doing, just in case you're worried.

I definitely don't think you have BTSC with Epi, because if you did he would be telling you to ramp down your defensiveness.

S~V~S wrote:I am sure that at some point he will say it's a ploy to see who jumped on his vote/suspicion or something like that yadda yadda yadda.

That's the Llama Gambit. I own it.

S~V~S wrote:iirc Llama doesn't even believe in psychology.

No, no, it's psychiatry I don't believe in.

Bullzeye wrote:Why would such a person 'want' to get caught? Why would anyone for that matter? I want to win. You don't win by dying.

Why does a criminal return to the scene of the crime? Why do serial killers intentionally leave clues to their identities? For most, the urge to do evil is accompanied by either a sense of guilt that drives one to subconsciously seek correction, or else a desire for recognition of one's evil deeds. The latter is why kids post videos of themselves committing crimes on youtube. The conscious desire to avoid detection exists, but it is at war with the subconscious desire to be recognized for one's achievements, heinous though they may be.

Bullzeye wrote: Did you see the part in btsc where I said I always play my baddie game because it's the only game I know? Did you see the part in this game where I've been helpful and nice and given everyone the benefit of the doubt? All I've said this entire game amounts to "sometimes a joke is just a joke". What do you mean looking for people who know they are bad? Everyone knows their role. Everyone knows if they're good or bad as far as I can tell.

I was trying to go to sleep, but this post kept gnawing away at my brain until I finally realized why. Why does Bullz word his response in this way? Why does he say "I always play my baddie game"? Why not "I always play my civvie game" or "My baddie game and my civvie game look just alike"?

If he always plays his baddie game, that means he is playing it now. Why would anyone admit to playing their baddie game? Keeping my psychologist hat on for a moment, I think Bullz is being betrayed by his subconscious. Maybe even, on some deep level, he wants to get caught.

I'm going to go ahead and place my vote on him for now.

DharmaHelper wrote:I AM THE MAP

What happens if we lynch the map?

S~V~S wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Just curious.
Any pings yet? If not, I request that you give our old friend Bullzeye a read.
Yeah, I already voted for Epignosis. It could change.

Oh I see a lot of people have already voted for people! I guess that's the outcome of changeable votes.

I seriously doubt I will vote for Epi today though. He seems legit to me.

Bullzeye wrote: Did you see the part in btsc where I said I always play my baddie game because it's the only game I know? Did you see the part in this game where I've been helpful and nice and given everyone the benefit of the doubt? All I've said this entire game amounts to "sometimes a joke is just a joke". What do you mean looking for people who know they are bad? Everyone knows their role. Everyone knows if they're good or bad as far as I can tell.

To answer the questions in the latter half of this paragraph, yes, everyone knows their role. What I mean is that rather than looking for objective facts like BTSC connections that can be traced through voting records and in-thread conversations, I am forced to rely on the subjective realm of psychology. The only thing that differentiates a baddie without BTSC from a civvie is the knowledge that he is a baddie, and to try to deduce how that knowledge will affect posting style. That is what I am attempting to do. Well, I guess it's not the only way, Epi is going with probability, which I admire, but I am not sold on Elohcin yet, and I like my psychological approach. I'm interested to see how I do.

Bullzeye wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Just curious.
Any pings yet? If not, I request that you give our old friend Bullzeye a read.
You said I was your only ping but then you said you might vote Aces. So much for 'only'. Care to explain why I'm so pingy to you?

Aces is not a ping, I just might vote him for being a low poster.

Anyway, I'm extremely glad you asked!

*ahem*

In this game, it appears that BTSC connections are not a good indicator of baddieness (I say "it appears," although I do not like making assumptions when there are so may secrets.) So how to catch the baddies? You have to get inside their heads. I'm looking for people who know they are bad and therefore think "Oh, I don't want to be caught, better be careful!" I am looking for people posting in such a way to lead me to believe that this is their thought process. That's my baddie hunting strategy in general this game.

Now, in particular, I just got through watching you play a very adept baddie game in the comfort of your BTSC chat, and as I watched, I observed your behavior. I observed that you were very helpful and nice and tried to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. You are doing that. Now's the part where you say "I do that every game!" Well, maybe you do and maybe you don't, but I am seeing the baddie Bullz I just saw.

S~V~S wrote:Just curious.

Any pings yet? If not, I request that you give our old friend Bullzeye a read.

S~V~S wrote: And Llama, have you actually read the thread?

Most of it. Why?

Epignosis wrote:
S~V~S wrote:You could be right about her, certainly uou know her better than I. But this on top of your request for sidekick applications, that felt like dropping a hint for Blacksmith.

As of right now, that's what i think.
That's fine if that's what you want to think. The implication would almost be insulting that, given such a role, I should be so sloppy, but then I remember that you think I'm ballsy and would actually play it that way.

It's all good- just wish you were better than you are reading between the lines.

And for those watching at home, no, that last comment has nothing to do with role hinting.

Epi, I would prefer to lynch Monkey Grodd before any other role, because his existence confuses me. Do you think Eloh is likely to be him? If not, then who?

Aceofspaces has only posted once. I do not like that.

Maybe I will vote for him.

Crazy busy day at work. I am here now.

I see there's been some talk about me. I don't mind. Talk away. I like Epi's probability approach very much, but so far I only have one ping, and his name is Bullzeye.

Black Rock wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:I don't think I've ever seen Epi call Elo out this early in the game. It has my attention. She's said two words so far. Which word did you find more suspicious, Epi?
I think he was looking for attention since Llama was hogging it.

There is plenty of attention for everyone to share!

Black Rock wrote:
Long Con wrote:Epig's reads on Elohcin are often accurate. Notoriously accurate. Almost like he's... superintelligent.

Monkey?

Nah, Epig is the host of Biblical Mafia. Obviously he doesn't believe in superintelligent monkeys, and therefore can't be one.

Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:Is it Day 1 yet? I want to lynch people.
Like Elohcin?

I have to admit, your case is pretty compelling.

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