The Syndicate

MovingPictures07 wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote: That's funny, I kind of forgot about the B for baddies theory. That has to be one of the wackiest mafia theories I've ever seen actually gain some decent discussion...

You're welcome.

What's even funnier is how you remained in the top 5 posters even though you were lynched on Day 3.

At that rate, you would have probably made at least 500 posts in this game had you made it to endgame.

What can I say, I like the game and I like to post and it often gets me lynched.

Epignosis wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote: That's funny, I kind of forgot about the B for baddies theory. That has to be one of the wackiest mafia theories I've ever seen actually gain some decent discussion...

You're welcome.

Logan, I hope you understand that I was not sorry at all for getting you lynched.

And I was not sorry at all for getting lynched by you!

MovingPictures07 wrote: That's funny, I kind of forgot about the B for baddies theory. That has to be one of the wackiest mafia theories I've ever seen actually gain some decent discussion...

You're welcome.

Alright let's get some heroin and some ice cream, and then we definitely have to go.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Clearly I should be rezzed. I mean, I played better than anyone else who was dead. And I'm nicer than all of you. And smarter. And sexier.

WHAT????? My name isn't on the poll?!?!

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)

I'm not there either! Oh, the injustice of it all! We should form our own dead team, BWT, and finish off all these traitors who lynched us.

Snow Dog wrote: haha..I never use the word wrench either. The difference of our same language. Do you say "Putting a wrench in the works"?

It's usually "throwing a wrench in the works" but yes. While the word wrench has a rather violent connotation (if you wrench a wrench, you are probably using it wrong) I don't understand spanner at all. What does it span? A spanner should be something that holds two things apart, creating a gap, I would think.

Hedgeowl wrote:I don't know when I'll lose service, but I've been told it'll be hard to get internet where I'm going.

That sounds really ominous. "There won't be any internet where you're going!"

Epignosis wrote:

thellama73 wrote: I voted for you too, Tasha, even though YOUR HUSBAND GOT ME KILLED!

Good luck!

How many people could say that about their politicians?

Wow, this thread got really heavy all of a sudden...

Elohcin wrote:

Mongoose wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:You make some really neat looking cakes Elo.

Thanks DharmaHelper. You can check out my facebook page - facebook.com/LittleMissCakesNC

I entered a cake decorating contest because my stand mixer broke on me today and the winner of the contest gets a new Kitchen Aid mixer. You can vote for my Dr. Seuss cake by going to the facebook page My Cake Decorating, clicking on Cake Off, and searching for my name "Tasha Brown". Spread the word! I need new mixer

Done! Hope you win. Those Kitchen Aid mixers are awful snazzy.

Thanks so much!

I voted for you too, Tasha, even though YOUR HUSBAND GOT ME KILLED!

Good luck!

Well, I'm going to go ahead and voting Lizzy and hope at least five of the remaining players join me.

I am not bad. You'll see. You'll all see.

*Votes Lizzy*

Matahari wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Although it's starting to look bleak for me, there are still 20 votes left to cast. Come on, people, help out your friendly neighborhood llama!

We have storms going on here and I'm feeling antsy about waiting much longer to vote. Could you tell me why you think epig was going after you with such perseverance? You have waffled so much on epig, I just want to hear straight up what you think his motive is?

Honestly, I don't know. Initially, I just thought he was tenacious and opinionated, but after what seems to be a deliberate misreading of my argument about bea, I cannot help but think he has sinister motives. If I had to guess, I would say he's on the other bad team, not the one BWT was one.

Vompatti wrote:It seems that llama is going down no matter what so I might as well vote now.

*votes Dex*

Aw, don't be such a pessimist. There are still 19 people to vote. They could go to anyone.

Lizzy wrote: In case you might miss a certain thread, I want to officially congratulate you on your exquisite choice of top 2favourite bands .

Thanks! You have very good taste as well. I made that list a while ago. I think it would be different now. There are too many great bands to fit into just ten slots! Still, numbers one and two would remain the same.

Although it's starting to look bleak for me, there are still 20 votes left to cast. Come on, people, help out your friendly neighborhood llama!

Mongoose wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote: Sorry to hear you are feeling crappy. I could say "Feel better!", but some people hate that when it's obviously not possible.

Not possible? What nonsense. When I get sick, I stop being sick and be awesome instead.

I don't really believe you have ever been sick, llama. Too many optimistic antibodies or something.

It does happen on occasion, but it's rare and doesn't last long.

Hedgeowl wrote: Sorry to hear you are feeling crappy. I could say "Feel better!", but some people hate that when it's obviously not possible.

Not possible? What nonsense. When I get sick, I stop being sick and be awesome instead.

Boo, my defense of BWT was a calculated risk. I knew I would get lynched if I turned out to be wrong, but if I had been right it would have made me look good, while at the same time hopefully sway people away from lynching a civ. I thought there was a more than 50% chance of the latter, so I gambled.

I don't resent any of your votes for me today, because I knew the chance I was taking and accept the consequences. If you do lynch me, however, I hope you get some good info from it.

Also Dom, the fact that I keep having new suspects has to do with the fact that things keep changing. I had one set of suspects before BWT flipped. Since he flipped bad and I was not expecting him to, that forced me to reevaluate. I was suspicious of Rob before, the flip made me think I was wrong, but Rob's actions since have made me think maybe I was right again. Lizzy has remained near the top of my list all game and I've been consistent in mentioning Hedgeowl and Nevinera, but have still not found anything concrete enough to warrant a vote on theme. Bea's vote timing made me suspect her enough to do a reread, in which I discovered things that make me think she's bad.

It goes against the grain to quote Keynes, but as he once said: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”

Dom wrote:I also find it interesting that llama seemed to think that epig had joined him with his case against bea.

If you read the posts, I'm not sure what else I could have concluded. I'm still baffled as to how Epig took the interpretation he did from that.

Mongoose wrote: Do all y'all typically keep written notes to help you keep track of your feelings on various players?

I keep a spreadsheet cataloging all votes and sometimes I'll make notes on players. It all depends.

Thanks for addressing those points, bea. FWIW I merely mentioned the fact that you missed the vote in passing, and not as evidence for your baddieness I fully believe you about that. I hate daylight savings time myself and have fallen victim to its wickedness in the past. It was the comments directly before and after the lynch that had me worried.

As far as who I'm looking at, Rob is acting weird, but he was right about BWT from way early so maybe he's on the other baddie team or maybe he's just acting weird. Lizzy is up there on my list, because I feel like her success in Thomas has led her to believe she can act the way she has been acting without consequence. Nevinera's prolonged silence still has me worried, and I have a vague hunch on Hedgeowl as well, but I can't pin it down to anything yet.

Yeah, but those quotes didn't happen right after one another. Other things happened between them that affected my opinions. I feel like you are being uncharacteristically hostile this game, but I'm probably not going to vote for you. I'm probably going to vote for bea.

bea wrote: I would really like to hear from both Vomp and Lizzy as to whom they suspect and why. I feel like with all the talk of the "unusual" whether it's them, or Dex or whomever, that these players are able to keep the focus on the wacky and not necessarily on the whole "hunting baddies" thing. Am I making sense?

I completely agree with this. The wackiness may not indicate alignment, but it certainly does nothing to help the civvie cause, and what good is it having civvies around who refuse to help?

bea wrote:linki - llama - is there anything besides the timing of my vote that makes you think I'm bad? When I'm around (IE - not at work) I tend to wait as long as I can to vote no matter what. I like to get every bit of info I can before I make a decision. Granted, I didn't vote Teefies, but I was not the only person tricked by him. Truth be known, I almost followed you and voted Epi because I thought you'd caught something. So I guess you could call me doubly dumb there. But being dumb doesn't make me a baddie.

Yes, I listed three points as to why I suspect you. The timing is one, combined with the lack of specificity for your reason for picking Aces over the other suspects you mentioned.

Another is a response that seemed forced (a weak point to be sure, but I think it is worth mentioning in combination with other things) and the third is the way you distanced yourself from the AP vote when he flipped civ, despite having expressed strong suspicion on him before. As Rob rightly pointed out, BWT tried the same tactic of distancing, and he flipped bad, so if pattern recognition can be believed, you might well flip bad too.

Epignosis wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Epignosis wrote: Isn't that exactly what birdwithteeth11 did with you?

Excellent point.

Yes it is- and a subtle difference too. A Person was a security bot, while birdwithteeth was Suchong. One was good while the other was not.

Do you recall fourth sin in my list?

A pattern.

I have voted for thellama73.

You have it backwards.
I asserted that bea (a baddie, imo) distanced herself from AP (a civ.)
You pointed out that BWT (a baddie) distanced himself from me (a civ.)
The difference you assert doesn't exist.

Do you recall the first and second sins from your list?

Epignosis wrote: Isn't that exactly what birdwithteeth11 did with you?

Excellent point.

Okay, I expect I will need to hold my vote to save my own sorry hide tomorrow, but in case I don't I will likely be giving it to bea for the following reasons.

1. She was the last person to vote for Aces. The vote was Aces:6 BWT: 7, so her vote tied it up. The rationale for her vote was vague and non-specific.

bea wrote:Between Dex, Aces, and BWT - I waver on all their cases tbh. Of the three though, I have the least warm fuzzies about Aces.

2. I agree with what Elohcin said about her reaction to BWT's lynch being forced and awkward sounding, tonewise.

Elohcin wrote:And if we go for llama and he turns out civ, I think we ought to look at bea. Her post which I quote below seems just a bit forced. However, if llama turns out baddie, then I guess she is being genuine.

bea wrote:well crap. I either chose wrong or we were lucky and there were two baddies in that mix. I do have to say, David had me fooled.

well done epi for not letting up on his gut feeling. As rusti asked, I wouldn't mind knowing if there was anything besides gut that kept you going on.

llama - I've got no problems with you looking my way. I'm a civ this time round. If there's anything specific I can address, I'd be happy to.

I will turn out civ, so Elohcin is right on the money there.

3. On the A Person Vote, she expressed suspicion of AP, missed the vote and then tried to distance herself from it afterwards.

bea wrote:As far as day 1 cases go, the ones on A person and llama are as well made as they can be.

Before the self vote, I was thinking that the case on A Person was stronger than the one on llama. Now AP's self vote has me scratching my head. It feels like a desperate attempt, but I am unsure of if it's a desperate civ attempt or a desperate baddie attempt.

bea wrote:RIP A Person.

FWIW - I was leaning away from A person. I think my last post could see that.

This is the strongest case I have at the moment, and I will vote for bea unless I need to protect myself or something else exciting happens in the meantime..

Epignosis wrote: I don't think my system is immune from failure (never claimed that). I think it is far superior to people vaguely saying "so and so read civ to me."

I thought you would have understood and agreed with that.

I understand nothing.

Mongoose wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Still plenty of room for the event! Don't forget to PM me to enter!

You have roughly 24 hours to decide whether or not to join. Remember, those who excel will be rewarded. But that person who fairs most poorly... don't say I didn't warn you.

Is it only the very bottom person in this event that will be punished, or will it be the bottom 1/3, etc.?

It would be funny if only one person signs up.

Epignosis wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Epignosis wrote: There is a difference between a positive action (trying to do X) and a negative action (trying NOT to do Y).

"Seeming civ" is a vague thing, easy to pull off early on, and on top of it all, bad guys can vouch for one another.

Contradicting oneself is a screw up.
Saying something that makes no sense is a screw up.
Slipping up is a screw up.
Patterns are not screw ups, per se, but you asked about how to read people early on, which is why patterns was at the end of my list.

Semantics. "Trying to seem civ" is the same thing as "trying not to seem bad."

Innocent people contradict themselves all the time. Innocent people say things that make no sense all the time (just look at Dex.) That does not necessarily imply malice.

Not semantics, and your straw man is effectively tautological. "Trying to seem civ." is not the same thing as "trying not to contradict oneself" (and you admit that innocent people contradict themselves all the time, so you're undermining your own thought). May I ask you your own question? How do you propose we read people early on?

Innocent people may contradict themselves and say things that make no sense, but they should refrain from doing so when I am a participant along with them.

As for your example, he has only committed one sin.

I didn't say that trying to seem civ is the same thing as trying not to contradict oneself. I don't think it is. I was just pointing out that there is no real difference between trying to do something and trying not to do something as you asserted. It just depends on how you phrase it.

I am not saying your method is without merit. I look for all those things too, but I also think there is a role for intuition, tone and deviations from past or usual behavior. My main point was to flip your criticisms of methodology around on your own method, to show that no system is immune from failure.

Epignosis wrote: There is a difference between a positive action (trying to do X) and a negative action (trying NOT to do Y).

"Seeming civ" is a vague thing, easy to pull off early on, and on top of it all, bad guys can vouch for one another.

Contradicting oneself is a screw up.
Saying something that makes no sense is a screw up.
Slipping up is a screw up.
Patterns are not screw ups, per se, but you asked about how to read people early on, which is why patterns was at the end of my list.

Semantics. "Trying to seem civ" is the same thing as "trying not to seem bad."

Innocent people contradict themselves all the time. Innocent people say things that make no sense all the time (just look at Dex.) That does not necessarily imply malice.

Epignosis wrote: This is for anybody really, but isn't trying to "sound civ" what bad guys try to do? If so, then a bad guy sounding like a good guy would just mean he's doing a good job, right?

Epignosis wrote:Seriously, I don't "get a read" on people. I look for contradictions, things that do not make sense, slip-ups, and patterns (generally in that order). birdie committed three of those sins (the first three). You have committed two so far (the first two, in case you are wondering). That's generally how I "read" people. Someone simply saying, "I was reading so and so as civ" tells us almost nothing, and for me is vague, bereft of specified evidence, and thus unhelpful at the time.

But isn't trying to consciously avoid making contradictions, things that do not make sense, slip-ups and patterns what bad guys try to do? If so, then a bad guy not doing any of those things would just mean he's doing a good job, right?

When I am a baddie, I am generally more worried about "what other people will think" of my posts and votes than when I am a civ and have nothing to hide, and thus more careful.

Epignosis wrote: 2. I like prose. (Sorry, I'll stop- I know I'm being cheeky. All in good fun I hope. Seriously, I don't "get a read" on people. I look for contradictions, things that do not make sense, slip-ups, and patterns (generally in that order). birdie committed three of those sins (the first three). You have committed two so far (the first two, in case you are wondering). That's generally how I "read" people. Someone simply saying, "I was reading so and so as civ" tells us almost nothing, and for me is vague, bereft of specified evidence, and thus unhelpful at the time.

Of course it's all in good fun!

I don't mind being lynched so much now that it will show that your methodology is every bit as flawed as mine.

Epignosis wrote: First, I didn't make a comment. I asked two questions.
Second, my questions were not in reference to you. They were a rhetorical criticism of the "I think so and so sounds like a civ" observation in general.
Third, you may have explained yourself to your satisfaction, but you didn't explain yourself to mine. Not yet anyway, and you see that I've yet to vote.
Fourth, you are mighty jumpy.

First, questions can be comments too, if they express an opinion or reaction. I interpreted your questions as rhetorical, meaning that they were comments.
Second, okay, but then how do you prose we read people early in the game?
Third, if you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them, but I don't know what I can say other than that I made a bad read and pursued it confidently.
Fourth, you are mighty pedantic today.

Epignosis wrote:

Devin the Omniscient wrote: I will also have an eye thellama because of his defense of bwt and his vote for Epig in the previous lynch. I'd like to see more about this, though, because his comments after the fact sound civ to me.

This is for anybody really, but isn't trying to "sound civ" what bad guys try to do? If so, then a bad guy sounding like a good guy would just mean he's doing a good job, right?

That doesn't leave me with a whole lot of options for defending myself then does it? If I sound civ, it must be because I am a clever baddie, but if I sound baddie it must be because I am baddie?

Despite the fact that you were right about BWT very early and pushed hard to lynch him, comments like these make me think maybe I was right to suspect you after all.

I have explained myself to my satisfaction, and if you think it's worth voting for me, go ahead. I realized the risk I was taking when I defended BWT.

I am going to revisit my early suspicion of Hedgeowl, I think, as well as looking at the B-Is-For-Baddies crowd.

Mongoose wrote: Llama - Do you remember why you thought LT might be bad? Maybe that can help us backtrack to find another killer.

thellama73 wrote: I was pinged by the way she came after me so hard the first day, then disappeared and never mentioned it again, even though I asked her about it. I feel like she was laying pretty low before her death. Not enough to have voted for her, but she was on my list of suspects.

I don't want people to make too big a thing of it though. It was just a hunch and I was not ready to act on it at the time of her death. I could easily have been wrong.

nutella wrote:@ Boomslang / general public interest: Referring to page numbers is unhelpful for those of us who set the posts per page differently from the forum default -- if it's really important link to the post(s) in question. thanks

Oh man, Boomslang, you got told!

Wow, let's see how he recovers from that.

>SpaghettiEverywhere wrote:

thellama73 wrote:RIP LT and Juliets.

I was leaning civ on juliets and baddie on LT, so this is an interesting set of kills.

Just dropping in. I can see how you can see juliets as possibly being civvie, but why LT as baddie? Care to explain? And my thoughts on vomp: He is usually quite bizarre in his ways and especially now with lizzy in the game. I'm trying hard to see if i can read anything off of him but I cant seem to get much. I am, however, seeing Mongoose as a bit wishy washy with the whole "I'm 350% suspicious of vomps" and then "Lets maybe not go after vomps so hard just yet in case he's civ like AP" deal going on.

I was pinged by the way she came after me so hard the first day, then disappeared and never mentioned it again, even though I asked her about it. I feel like she was laying pretty low before her death. Not enough to have voted for her, but she was on my list of suspects.

RIP LT and Juliets.

I was leaning civ on juliets and baddie on LT, so this is an interesting set of kills.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Vompatti wrote:Ooooh. I'm not BWT's teammate.

Me neither!

On a lighter note, I've decided to listen to my entire music library in alphabetical order by song. I've gone through 120 songs so far, and I'm up to Ag, so it's going to take a while.

That's awesome. I can't even imagine how long that would take me, lol. It sounds like a cool project though.

Based on what is currently on my laptop, it would take me exactly 1 month. If you did all my music period, it would easily be at least 2 months probably.

Well, obviously I don't listen to it 24 hours a day.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Vompatti wrote:Ooooh. I'm not BWT's teammate.

Me neither!

On a lighter note, I've decided to listen to my entire music library in alphabetical order by song. I've gone through 120 songs so far, and I'm up to Ag, so it's going to take a while.

That's awesome. I can't even imagine how long that would take me, lol. It sounds like a cool project though.

I did it a few years back, only organized by song length, shortest to longest (the first few days were insanely schizophrenic.) It took me a full year to get through me library, and I have considerably more music now than I did then.

Vompatti wrote:Ooooh. I'm not BWT's teammate.

Me neither!

On a lighter note, I've decided to listen to my entire music library in alphabetical order by song. I've gone through 120 songs so far, and I'm up to Ag, so it's going to take a while.

Snow Dog wrote:I almost believe you Llama.

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades!

I have no defense for myself other than to say I thought I was reading civ BWT, and I thought I saw a baddie railroading of him from Rob and others. I felt really sure of myself, but I was wrong. I'm sorry I cast doubt on Epignosis now. He had more insight than I did.

It turns out, I shouldn't have trusted my feelings

Good points all, Rob (although I don't think I was hypocritical.) I have noticed that in every game I've played with BWT, he has posted who he is voting for and then forgotten to actually vote on at least one occasion, so that is common for him.

I'm not sure how much weight my opinion carries anymore, but I think it makes sense to look at late voters for Aces, since they might have been trying to save a teammate. That includes bea, boo and Bullzeye. Maybe everyone on the baddie team has a name that starts with a B?