The Syndicate

Hedgeowl wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Another thing: Hedgeowl.

We killed her because I had her pegged as a role checker.
Ha, the opposite. I was role outing myself for all I was worth. That's why I was so convinced llama was bad when he refused to change his mind about me after I sent him a video. I figured it was after I sent the video to Epi and died that he was bad. It was actually a dangerous tactic if sent to the wrong person, but I kept trying to get vocal thread people to support me as civ, but they kept getting killed, going absent etc.

Bea! You were my btsc secret search buddy if only I had found you before you died.

Good game all! Thanks for such a fun concept Mongoose!

It actually just took me a couple of days to understand the role hint.

I was not at my best this game.

I thought I had the perfect role this game. By being vocal and annoying everyone, I was trying to draw night actions. Then, when people got cursed, they would know my role. The civs wouldn't lynch me because they would know I was good. The baddies would see me as low priority, because I didn't actually have any actions I could use against them at night. I really thought I was set. But the best laid plans...

I was surprised how few people seemed to be cursed from targeting me.

I am pleased at not having to hate sabie forever, though.

Congratulations, Roxy. You have ensured that I never give the slightest sympathy to anyone for real life circumstances ever again.

A Person wrote:
sabie12 wrote:Well, I guess all I can do at this point is hope that AP realizes I'm good.
Sorry, but I feel like Epi is presenting a better argument. I too feel uneasy about you relying on your newness.

The only reason I have not voted for Sabie this game is that, after playing the helpless newbie card HARD, she posted this.

sabie12 wrote:Well of course I'm good and I am slowly figuring things out on my own. Not sure what you mean by teammates? Didn't know that was a thing. Do you have teammates helping you?

It rang true to me, but if it ends up having been deception, it's the dirtiest trick I have seen in any mafia game and I will come gunning straight for her in any subsequent games. It will be interesting indeed to see what her role is.

I don't have any reason to assume that AP 's role is different than what it was before the resurrection, so process of elimination leaves Rob. Sorry Rob.

Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
sabie12 wrote:I was pretty sure roxy and epi were bad. They've consistently voted for civs.
I have voted for thellama73 (alignment undisclosed), Boogs (civilian), and Hedgeowl (alignment undisclosed). I voted for one known civilian. Why would you say these other two, whom you also voted for, are civilians?
I often consistently vote for civilians when I am good, because I don't have the knowledge necessary to avoid that kind of record. I try really hard not to let that sort of voting record happen when I am bad and can consciously avoid it.
Voting off civilians makes you a civilian. Got it.

Not my point at all. Just that a bad vote record is not proof of baddieness, because baddies have ways of making their vote records look better than civvies don't have.

Epignosis wrote:
sabie12 wrote:I was pretty sure roxy and epi were bad. They've consistently voted for civs.
I have voted for thellama73 (alignment undisclosed), Boogs (civilian), and Hedgeowl (alignment undisclosed). I voted for one known civilian. Why would you say these other two, whom you also voted for, are civilians?

I often consistently vote for civilians when I am good, because I don't have the knowledge necessary to avoid that kind of record. I try really hard not to let that sort of voting record happen when I am bad and can consciously avoid it.

I will not vote Sabie today. I will not vote Roxy today. That leaves Rob and AP. Thoughts?

Roxy wrote:Great result on MR llama.

Bye MR.

As for my part in the last lynch (you know having a family crisis) in no way indicates my alignment. I respectfully request no one use it against me as it is quite an upsetting ordeal for my family.

I am not a mafia nor am I a puppet recruit.

I have tried very hard this game and anyone pointing fingers about my vote record better take a lok at themselves first as none of us have done a good job this game.

knowing now MR was a puppet master/slayer it makes me want to Iook at everyone who have not mentioned him before yesterday. For that I will need to read back and I don't have time bc of work and outside forces. I will try to do it by tomorrow at this same time.

Thanks everyone for understanding and giving me time <3

I think we neither give people a pass for their inaction, nor assume they are lying. It is possible to be legitimately busy and still a baddie, and we should vote accordingly.

Made wrote:Ignored that, forgot to count AP. you situation is plausible, But still think it's very unlikely that
1. His recruits didn't even put up a fight
2. Both remaining members of mafia voted to kill one person that they knew could easily be civvie.

1. Well, nobody put up a fight, so I guess you are assuming that he either failed to find the puppets or they were killed. That's believable.
2. I agree this seems implausible, which is why I'm at a loss. A part of me thinks the mafia sat this out, since they would be happy if either you or MR died, which means I'm still after Rob or Roxy tomorrow. That jives more with my instincts at the moment. It's a good point.

Made wrote:
thellama73 wrote:But this really puts me at a loss for next lynch. MR's recruits would not vote for him, so that rules out Made and Sabie. Since he can have up to two recruits, that means 2/3 of Rob, AP, and Roxy could be his recruits, which would make them not on the baddie team, and I really want to get someone on the baddie team. But I am reading Made as civvie now and if Sabie is bad she's the most devious, no good, rotten, stinking liar I have ever seen on this site.

I don't know what to do.
I really Doubt it's AP because AP was brought back to life in place of Keterman. Since Keterman was Big Felt, we can probably assume that AP was someone with no BTSC or Mafia relations/knowledge. At least that's my reasoning at this moment.

You're right. That would mean that Epignosis and Roxy were his recruits, assuming that they are not dead, and that would make you and sabie bad.

Wait... there is no role called the Puppet Master.

@Mongoose: Did you mean Puppet Slayer, or is this a mind-bendy game-changey thing?

Oh my God, now I have to make Puppet Master Mafia!

But this really puts me at a loss for next lynch. MR's recruits would not vote for him, so that rules out Made and Sabie. Since he can have up to two recruits, that means 2/3 of Rob, AP, and Roxy could be his recruits, which would make them not on the baddie team, and I really want to get someone on the baddie team. But I am reading Made as civvie now and if Sabie is bad she's the most devious, no good, rotten, stinking liar I have ever seen on this site.

I don't know what to do.

Closest thing I've had to a victory all game. I'll take it!

The number of missed votes is worrying, considering everyone left is a baddie.

Mister Rearranger wrote:I'm apparently on my deathbed and it feels like I'm talking to a swarm of baddie mcbaddersons anyways. -_-

I've felt that way all freaking game. This will surely go down as my worst performance ever.

If Sabie ends up being bad, I am going to be really angry.

Made wrote:Voting MR, I swear Llama don't be mafia....

You have my word.

Made wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Made wrote:
thellama73 wrote:Come on, Made. I defended you.
I know you did, But that doesn't mean I can't be suspicious of you. As i've said, the reason i'm suspicious of you is because you voted early and your vote seemed strange. Refute those point or make a strong argument against MR, who at this point, I don't understand the arguments against.
Okay, honestly, I voted early because I saw what was going to happen if I didn't. Either I was going to get lynched, or you were. I know that I am civ. I am beginning to believe that you are civ. I voted because I believe MR to be bad, and I was hoping my vote would generate discusion and lead other people to the same conclusion. I don't have a strong, evidence-based case to make against MR. But I have played with him before, and I do think I recognize his baddie game. He is very good at staying out of the spotlight while simultaneously appearing like an active participant. Why has no one talked much about him until now? Because he's been doing exactly what good baddies do. They blend. They let the vocal go-getters like me make mistakes and follow along for the ride, gleefully watching as civ after civ is lynched while the blood remains off their hands.

Call it gut, if you want. But that's how I feel right now.
Do you know why/how you were rezzied or how you avoid a lynch potentionally twice now?

I don't know who rezzed me, but I do know about the lynch saves.

Made wrote:
thellama73 wrote:Come on, Made. I defended you.
I know you did, But that doesn't mean I can't be suspicious of you. As i've said, the reason i'm suspicious of you is because you voted early and your vote seemed strange. Refute those point or make a strong argument against MR, who at this point, I don't understand the arguments against.

Okay, honestly, I voted early because I saw what was going to happen if I didn't. Either I was going to get lynched, or you were. I know that I am civ. I am beginning to believe that you are civ. I voted because I believe MR to be bad, and I was hoping my vote would generate discusion and lead other people to the same conclusion. I don't have a strong, evidence-based case to make against MR. But I have played with him before, and I do think I recognize his baddie game. He is very good at staying out of the spotlight while simultaneously appearing like an active participant. Why has no one talked much about him until now? Because he's been doing exactly what good baddies do. They blend. They let the vocal go-getters like me make mistakes and follow along for the ride, gleefully watching as civ after civ is lynched while the blood remains off their hands.

Call it gut, if you want. But that's how I feel right now.

Come on, Made. I defended you.

Mister Rearranger wrote:
thellama73 wrote: MR is not saying much. He's playing an under the radar game. He's playing the game of a baddie who thinks he's about to win and who doesn't want to blow it.
Under the radar? You're forgetting how we were the most talkative two people of the entire player list on Day 1? Heck, I've been dancing all over the radar.

I drink your radar.

I drink it up!

Signed,
-Not a baddie. Just another soon-to-be victim of your team, one way or another.

You can talk without standing out, as you have been doing excellently.

Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:Whatever, if I die, I die. Voting MR now.
For what it's worth, I'd like to think I'm an observant person, but I did not want to state that I wouldn't be voting you today (for obvious reasons).

Can you explain why MR is bad instead of Made?

You're all over the place.

Made's posts today have made a lot of sense to me. I think he's reasoning like a civ. He's trying to figure out who the indy is. He's trying to figure out who the baddies are. MR is not saying much. He's playing an under the radar game. He's playing the game of a baddie who thinks he's about to win and who doesn't want to blow it.

Then again, I've been wrong every time this game so far.

Whatever, if I die, I die. Voting MR now.

If I had my druthers, I would vote for MR today. His scapegoateree of Made has my eyebrow firmly raised, and Made, although deathly wrong about me, is reasoning like a civilian. However, I do not have my durthers, since people still are probably going to try to kill me and I will have to save myself however I can.

Still, I urge people to look at MR.

Oh look, my only defender has died. Still think I'm bad?

Roxy wrote:Thanks for your response llaman

I am always happy to respond to you, Rox!

Roxy wrote:
Roxy wrote:Thought I might miss this.

I personally been thinking Made was feeling the same as Misfits. Still crazy but not as much. I disagree with llama about being hard to change your game. I think he is more on a learning curve and with each new game he develops a little more. His style is still evolving.

I do not think you, llama, play the same at all as you did when we first played together. You changed and evolved your style. No way that your argument holds up looking at it logically. There is no way you can tell me you played the same in your first game as your say your 3rd or 4th game.

I am voting llama. I cannot shake the feeling that he is the sk recruiter. I have had this gut feeling the entire game.
Llama - are you going to respond and answer this post?

If you like. I already acknowledged that this was a possibility in Made's case. I personally do not believe it to be true though. I think the shift in style is too dramatic and too rapid. I also don't think I play that differently than I ever have, but I may not be the best judge of that.

Bullzeye wrote:Llama's survival doesn't add up with what I've believed about him.

You mean you didn't believe I was supatown?

Guys, I'm seriously. Stop trying to kill me. You're just giving the bad guys more time to NK us all. They will NK tonight, you'll lynch me again tomorrow, and you'll be two civs down, if we haven't outright lost by then. Stop it.

Also, the reason I survived is because I am supatown.

Bullzeye wrote:
Made wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:Like Made, I'm also gonna vote DF. He's still my top suspicion and I don't think that will change. He's already responded to the points I made against him and his responses didn't help. I had been hoping something else might happen today but it doesn't seem like it is going to so my vote goes to *DF*.
Woah... just realized he's used the same exact argument to defend his vote today as he used yesterday...smh bullzeye <3
I don't see why it's a problem that I voted the same person for the same reason twice in a row. Nothing had changed between the two votes to make me think differently.

Agreed. It's a bogus argument. I vote for the same person for the same reason all the time.

Made wrote:Voting Llama to secure the majority. What does you dying have to do with bullz' read and why should we care.

I'm confident in this lynch.

Yeah, confidently wrong.

Well, I'm voting for Made. I urge the rest of you to do the same. If I am lynched, Bullz will see his initial read on me confirmed and the baddies will probably have secured a majority.

Bullzeye wrote:
thellama73 wrote:Well, I screwed up that quote, but you get the idea.
I honestly don't know about you any more. See, I had reasons why I believed you were a civ. But then when you died, if you'd been who I thought you'd been, I would've expected something to happen. It didn't. So . I don't think I'd vote for you though. I do think you have a good point about Made. It's something I'd thought about myself but wasn't sure if it was worth bringing up.

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

MR, if I were the indy, I would have two recruits by now and I wouldn't need to build a coalition in the thread.

Well, I screwed up that quote, but you get the idea.

thellama73 wrote:
Mister Rearranger wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Mister Rearranger wrote:
You may also like to take a look back and see why I was pushing for Llama's lynch from the beginning of the game too.
Because you don't like me?
You know I think you're the best mod ever and I always love playing when you're involved. *glomps*

I do share your sentiments about Made though. And I feel like there's a very good chance you're the Puppet Master. Taking away a member from a potential 4-voteblock in the endgame seems like a wise decision. However, if you are the Puppet Master and recruited, then it's kind of a moot point anyways.

I feel like Fight Club all over again...

So, I'ma vote for you.
If I was the puppet master trying to consolidate votes against a civvie, why would I alienate Made by pushing a vote for him? Vote consolidation was his idea. It would be far easier for me to partner with him against someone like AP 2.0 who hasn't been posting. My actions are far more consistent with someone actually trying to find bad guys and win the game.

Wait don't.

Mister Rearranger wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Mister Rearranger wrote:
You may also like to take a look back and see why I was pushing for Llama's lynch from the beginning of the game too.
Because you don't like me?
You know I think you're the best mod ever and I always love playing when you're involved. *glomps*

I do share your sentiments about Made though. And I feel like there's a very good chance you're the Puppet Master. Taking away a member from a potential 4-voteblock in the endgame seems like a wise decision. However, if you are the Puppet Master and recruited, then it's kind of a moot point anyways.

I feel like Fight Club all over again...

So, I'ma vote for you.

Wait don't.

sabie12 wrote:Well no one likes to be the first one to vote, but I guess I will. I won't really have the chance to later. I'm going with llama for reasons previously stated. Sorry llama you just have always given me a bad vibe this game.

It's okay. You'll learn.

Mister Rearranger wrote:
You may also like to take a look back and see why I was pushing for Llama's lynch from the beginning of the game too.

Because you don't like me?

Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:Made's style this game is so dramatically different than the last two games he's played, in which he was good. I don't see him being good this game.
You've said this before, but you've not explained how.

You don't see how? He was very wacky, outspoken, off-the-wall, in both his other games. He has been subdued and rational in this one. Could it be someone learning from their mistakes and adapting their style? Maybe. But in my experience with my own game, I find changing my natural play style very difficult. I think it's more likely that he is different because he has a different type of role. That is, a bad one.

sabie12 wrote:Well Llama, you haven't done much to convince me you're good. There's not many of us left... gotta be careful who we trust at this point.

You were wrong about me before I died and you remain wrong about me after my resurrection. I'm not sure there's anything I can say to change your mind at this point.

What are you thinking, that I was bad the whole time and killed by my own team, or that I somehow switched allegiances after I came back? It will be easier for me to address your concersn if I know where you're coming from.

Roxy wrote:I do not like the way the thread is being steered like we are puppets todo llama's bidding.
It is making my nose all twitchy. And that is not good.

What? I am steering nothing. Just trying to keep myself alive against a rising tide of Llama Hate. Rob has said he is suspicious of Made, I share his view, and Made correctly pointed out that we have to pool our votes to avoid baddie manipulation. I agree with all those points.

Rob, you think Made is bad. I think Made is bad. Let's kill Made. Bullzeye is on my sied, I know, because he is a smart man. I'm pretty convinced Sabie is good, but she thinks I'm bad and I don't expect I'll be able to change her mind.

Made's style this game is so dramatically different than the last two games he's played, in which he was good. I don't see him being good this game. Keterman is MIA, so he will be no help. We need one more to get a majority.

I am a loose cannon, and you shouldn't trust me, but I am not bad. In fact, I'm good!

Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:It's a good point, Made. Unfortunately I am inclined to pool my vote on either you or Rob.
Super.

Town?

I like this post so much that I probably won't vote for you now.

It's a good point, Made. Unfortunately I am inclined to pool my vote on either you or Rob.

See? I told you Hedgeowl was good.

Also, Kandinsky is my favorite painter, not Bullz's.

Made wrote:
Roxy wrote: I don't get why Made made that post about llamas vote.
thellama73 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:I voted for Elohcin.
That's rather unexpected given this, this, this, this and this.

Am I to assume by your vote that you are now more suspicious of Eloh than Hedge?
Yes, that is very well assumed. I am a fickle llama, and I change my mind.
The way I read this, the rest of his arguments against eloh(especially when compared against his hedgie argument), and his reaction when I pointed out how strange his early vote all seemed to fit in the theory of Llama being force voted. This also gave reason for me to believe Keterman had been muted. I kinda figured everyone else came to this conclusion as the topic was dropped, and talking about it might limited the scope of Llama's speech.

No, I just have rapid swings of opinion.

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