The Syndicate

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Assuming three things:

First, Eloh is bad.

Second, Mafias aren't self-targeting.

Third, the VP curses someone.

This would mean that Eloh would have had to be with the troupe and would have had to have thrown sprityo2 under the bus when she could have saved him. I'm not especially comfortable believing that.

Why wouldn't Mafias self-target?

That's why I listed that as an assumption. It isn't a fact.

Better question: why would we assume that?

On my phone, so one quote post at a time. We would assume that because a lot of times, self-targeting is prohibited on the syndicate.

And...I don;t think I addressed Sir Epi often before today.

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:And hilariously enough, didn't read Spacedaisy's post above mine before that last post.

SD, why do you find Elo leaning on Epi to be odd behavior from her? It seems only natural to lean on someone close to you for reads; I get that you haven't seen it from her before, but have you played a game with her where she was extremely busy before (maybe she's more likely to lean on Epi when she doesn't have time) and why do you think she'd do that if bad when she can scumhunt genuinely in a multiball game?

I find it odd because it is out of character from what i have seen from her in the past, whether civ or bad. Elo has grown in her game a lot in the past couple years, and I find this behavior to be incongruent with growth I would identify as civ behavior, it looks more like someone trying to pocket someone else to me, and it makes sense because of exactly what you said, Epi being her spouse will carry more weight with the group. So if she could pocket him it would help her more as a baddie. Civ's don't need to pocket others, baddies do. And it sure looks like she is trying to pocket Epi to me.

The only point I was trying to make is that maybe she's grabbing at a lifeline because she feels like she's drowning; when my girlfriend and I play together usually I'm happy to form my reads and go my own ways but whenever I'm feeling overwhelmed or particularly frustrated than I tend to follow her like a lost puppy.

I understand the point you're making and will probably follow up with it once I have the slightest idea once I'm talking about again.

I'm an awesome swimmer (just ask Sir) and I'm definitely not feeling like I am drowning.

@daisy - can you explain what you mean by sheeping other's opinions? And then give me examples where I did that?

Spacedaisy wrote:Elo...

A couple things stand out to me regarding Elo. She seems to be sheeping a lot. And she seems to be buddying up to Epi. I don't mean the Sir thing either. I mean she is specifically asking him in particular for opinions and stuff. I don't recall seeing her doing that in the past. But she does try to pocket him when she is bad, and who could blame her. I've done the same to my husband. People tend to put more stock in a spouse/SO read of you.

Another thing I found concerning was her flip flop, before Dom flipped she was gunning for me and Quin. Then Dom flipped and she was all, "oh I should look at who started this train." Just such an easy flip flop, it makes me uncomfortable with her. Most votes are not that clear cut to sort out who on them was good and bad, and it feels like an attempt to pin something onto an easy lynch that doesn't affect her.

Leaning bad on Elo. Possibly Indy though.

I guess I could start talking to Sir about things unrelated to the game instead.

Sir, your chili tonight was wonderful. I looked forward to it all day.

Sir, would you like to watch a tv show together later after the kids go to bed?

Sir, you sure have a whole bunch of yellow shirts. Ever notice that?

Does this make you less suspicious of me, Daisy? I just figured when I call him Sir, it should be game related. I could check with our host, if you'd like. But I'm pretty sure that the baddies had game-related "Sir"s in mind too.

Nachomamma8 wrote:I will say that I weight Epi's suspicion of Elo heavily, being the whole married couple thing and all - is there a reason I shouldn't do this?

Yes. Sir is not always right about me even though he might think otherwise.

Spacedaisy wrote:Going to go on to DDL now... see you guys sometime tomorrow, I'm sure he has posted a lot as per his usual.

Nacho: That was no my point. My point was I think Elo knows that and is trying to buddy him by seeking out and sheeping his opinions. I actually am civ reading Epi and have been since the start.

I am not trying to buddy up with Sir. The baddie's want it to look that way, I assume.

okay, I cannot take reading anymore of this....I have to go ahead and post and respond more later.

Epignosis wrote:Maybe Dom subbed in for someone on Quin's team.

This is what I was thinking when I said he could have came back bad, Sir.

Golden wrote:hmm - yeah, Dom subbing back in is a minefield. Should we presume he has no info? Probably best to infer nothing and make it off limits to discuss dons past life with him?

One thing we do know, Dom was not Olaf since Olaf killed.

@jack - what do you mean by 'Golden is following epi'?

I disagree, Golden. I don;t think anything should be off limits. We don't want to limit thoughts and ideas. I think we can use his returning as helpful info. Perhaps his tidbit of info on his deathbed was not really info at all and Quin is actually civ. I cannot imagine DF letting him back in with info like that. Or, perhaps it was an oversight on behalf of DF. I think we ought to wait and hear from Dom and I think if he is allowed to open up about his past life, then we should take what he has to say into consideration. Then again, perhaps he came back bad. There are just a lot of things to take into account and we ought not dismiss discussion.

@ Epi - Don't you agree, Sir?

Linki...its always good to get info from one lynch before going after another who you suspect based on the original suspicion. BUT, Jack is right that there is nothing wrong with asking Epi who his other suspicions are based on his suspicion of Quin. And, yeah...I'd still like to know.

Long Con wrote:Elon, why do you want Epi to theorize about who is on the team of his suspect? Wouldn't it be a better use of time to wait until it is proven that Quin is bad, and then to look into who might be his teammate?

Yes, that does make more sense. I guess I was just looking for a reason to address Sir Epi in the post. I just love Sir that much. Can't let a post go by without talking about my Sir.

I have to agree with you Jack. When a host allows someone to re-enter a game, there has to be major precautions taken. I have seen hosts allow players with info come back into a game and it ruins it for one of the sides. I do hope DF considered all this carefully. I know Sir Epi is always careful about this as a host and has talked to me about how it can affect games when hosts aren't careful about it.

Linki: So you haven't commented about it Sir Epi. Will you comment now?

Welcome Dom 2.0!!

Spacedaisy wrote:Jack, can you please tell what vague not thought out suspicion from me you are referring to?

Quin, I thought Epi was being rude and he annoyed me but I've never really thought he was anything other than civ. Frankly the thing that makes me suspect you most is that you popped off the defense that you haven't made a detectable statement for the LD to have checked. I have no idea how many statements I may have made that could have been checked because I don't need to worry about my statements giving me away. The fact you obviously know you haven't made any checkable statements and even that you apparently are being careful not to make them, that is the biggest red flag to me.

SD, that is a good point about Quin.

Epignosis wrote:What if I said I wanted to lynch Eloh instead?

I don't think that's a good idea, Sir.

Snow Dog wrote:I agree that Eloh has not said much and followd votes. Is that not because she is busy in RL, Rob?

I think I can answer for myself. Yes. We moved. My kids all had the stomach bug one after another. I had the stomach bug after them. I continued to unpack. I did a wedding cake order. Then we had my brother and his lovely family visit. Life has finally settled though. Today is my first day of winter break with no responsibilities outside or the normal mom/wife duties (and the wifely duties were taken care of this morning ). I am here to answer questions etc. I do believe I have done a pretty steller job keeping up during all my business. I suspected sprit/glorf correctly. I suspected Quin and now others seem to think he is bad too. I am not sure what I think of him anymore really. But at least it shows I wasn't off my rocker. I am catching up/reading through today's posts now. We'll see if I have anything to add.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: I suspect Daisy and especially Eloh for what looks like vague or poorly thought out arguments not taking the full thread into account.

Dude, I've been busy!! I haven't been able to take the full thread into account. BUT...I was right about Sprit and got no stinkin' credit for it. At this point, I have been using my experience of playing with these folks to decide if I think they may be good or bad. Now that I have time for Mafia...I can try to use the thread activity to understand what's what.

After last night's posts from Sir Epi, I am not sure of his position. I think he may be indy like whoever else it was that suggested it. I don;t see him acting like this as a civ or a baddie. His baddie game is a bit more calculated than this. His civ game is a more rational than he's been lately. Or....it could have just been the .

Epignosis wrote:Heh. I just heard you close your laptop. You forgot to actually vote.

*sigh* classic Tasha.

Spacedaisy wrote:

Sorsha wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:I'm sorry I missed the vote guys, my sister got in tonight for the beginning of a week and half visit. I got sidetracked and missed the poll end.

Sorsha, I was not trying to lure anyone from voting Dom, I was trying to keep things from being a one track lynch and at least get some input on other people, see what some of the late voters might say and consider some other options because I don't know what I think of such a runaway lynch tally...

Linki: Yep that would be why.

I think you mean Eloh, not me!

*facepalm* You're right, I do mean Eloh, I don't know how I mixed that up.

Well, with the way the lynch went, I think I need to look elsewhere, away from you and Quin. Time to change things up, b/c it looks like the baddies might be directing this game atm.

Anyone know who began the Dom suspicion? I know I could look at the first voter, but that's not always the person who lays the groundwork.

@ MM - I was talking to you as you said, "Shall I bus Dom." But now that we find Dom wasn't bad, I guess you aren't his teammate. Why did you make such a post?

I've been occupied all day with visiting family, but coming in late in the day, catching up, and seeing all these votes on Dom...this is what I see.

Golden wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Shall I bus Dom?

Of course

Are you admitting to being on a team with Dom?

Spacedaisy wrote:I'm not sure why... I think it's because he defended sprityo? :shrugs:

and

Spacedaisy wrote:Well who else would you consider sig, same to you Wilgy?

Daisy's tone here sounds like she is trying to subtly defend Dom and lure players away from voting him. It's like what Quin did with Sprit.

Quin wrote:Guess who I'm voting for?


Not Dom.

If Dom is bad, this is strike 2 for you.

I've done pretty well so doing the opposite of Quin. I think I will try again. *voting Dom too*

Scotty wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I like MP. I imagine him as a talking sock and that makes me smile.

That's literally exactly what he looks like.

two adverbs in the same sentence.

Shame.

Spacedaisy wrote:

LoRab wrote:

I would like to point out that I would bet that the Lotab kill probably had someone involved in the decision who knew she was in Israel. Most likely a friend of hers, letting her enjoy her trip without worrying about mafia. Why else would a mafia team kill her when she is busy and fairly disengaged from the game?

Lorab's in Israel? What an awesome experience. I have heard stories of others who have visited. So cool!

I appreciate sig clearing me of one of the baddie teams. However, I think we have to beware of these types of things. This is mafia! There are all kinds of secrets and shenanigans that go on behind the scenes. I don't think we can ever be absolutely sure of anything.

insertnamehere wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Before getting to work, I had to at least check out the lynch results. And I have to say...I think I'm pretty good at telling glorf's alignments. Quin...You thought there was nothing in my reasoning for voting that way....I think you ought to be next. Please try to convince me otherwise.

What is your case against Quin?

He tried to direct my attention away from Sprit/Glorf.

Quin wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

DFaraday wrote:Effective immediately, Sprityo is replacing Glorfindel.

And yeah, dead members of factions win too.

I have to wonder why Sprit replaced Glor. Glor was pretty active. I know glor has a hard time being mafia, so maybe it was too much pressure.

This is all I have to go on right now, unfortunately. So, *voting Sprit*

I think there are much more significant topics being discussed right now which make for better votes than than voting based on a flimsy hypothesis on why someone might have subbed out.

Before getting to work, I had to at least check out the lynch results. And I have to say...I think I'm pretty good at telling glorf's alignments. Quin...You thought there was nothing in my reasoning for voting that way....I think you ought to be next. Please try to convince me otherwise.

Quin wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

DFaraday wrote:Effective immediately, Sprityo is replacing Glorfindel.

And yeah, dead members of factions win too.

I have to wonder why Sprit replaced Glor. Glor was pretty active. I know glor has a hard time being mafia, so maybe it was too much pressure.

This is all I have to go on right now, unfortunately. So, *voting Sprit*

I think there are much more significant topics being discussed right now which make for better votes than than voting based on a flimsy hypothesis on why someone might have subbed out.

Then, please...tell me what they are. I missed about 16 pages that I simply don;t have time to read. DDL was the only one to post a summary for me and he said there wasn't much there. So...I just started where I came at.

Epignosis wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Yeah sounds nice, but when you're gut only wants to talk about one person, simply choosing someone else is not so easy. Nice avoidance of my question though. Duly noted.

I am rescinding my civilian opinion of you after that.

I didn't avoid your question. I gave you an an answer that will help me develop my opinion on you better, and I'd say it did the trick.

SD's response got me wondering about her as well. I actually though your reply to her was surprisingly kind for you. And then her response smelled of baddie.

WOAH.....from last night til this morning....EIGHT pages. Y'all are killing me. I've got to go get to work.

ooo, I just broke a three-way tie. I had no clue.

DFaraday wrote:Effective immediately, Sprityo is replacing Glorfindel.

And yeah, dead members of factions win too.

I have to wonder why Sprit replaced Glor. Glor was pretty active. I know glor has a hard time being mafia, so maybe it was too much pressure.

This is all I have to go on right now, unfortunately. So, *voting Sprit*

Epignosis wrote:I like that it's Day 2 and I already have a decent number of people on the Nice list.

I need to work on my Naughty list.

Long Con, your name is on one of these lists.

Do you mind sharing your naughty and nice lists?

@LC, why do you think DDL is bad?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Elohcin wrote: And did we lynch sprit? And if so, was he bad? If not, who did we lynch? Were they bad? Who was killed Night 1? Was it more than one person? There are two baddie teams, I believe. And...it's now Day 2, right?

Yes. No. N/A. N/A. Scotty. No.

Thank you for being so kind to answer my questions.

I am now wondering why Sprit is still on the poll. Sub in?

sprityo wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:...yhw nosaer eht no regnif ym tup t'nac I dna mih ot semoc ti nehw eiddab gnimaercs si tug ym tub ,ko sdnuos syas CL gnihtyreve taht tcaf eht htiw gnilggurts m'I ,yldnoceS

.uoy gnitlusni ton ,niuQ eveileb I uoy gnitnemilpmoc saw eH .suoivbo taht si eno on ,noitacidni etammaet laer a eb ot suoivbo ot s'tI .noitasucca fo dnik suoivbo na hcus ot ecnederc evig ot doog oot si niuQ vic gniyas saw eh em ot raelc demees tI .gnitlusni ylbidercni os kool dias ipE tahw gnikam rof lla uoy no emahs ,ffo tsriF

First off, shame on you all for making what Epi said look so incredibly insulting. It seemed clear to me he was saying civ Quin is too good to give credence to such an obvious kind of accusation. It's to obvious to be a real teammate indication, no one is that obvious. He was complimenting you I believe Quin, not insulting you.
I don't think we deserve to be shamed. That's how I interpreted his post, it's not my fault that it was so cryptic. When Epi explains it, and it's not an insult, then there will be no insult to be shamed for. And this is Epi we're talking about here, is it really that far-fetched that he'd throw an insult out there?

Secondly, I'm struggling with the fact that everything LC says sounds ok, but my gut is screaming baddie when it comes to him and I can't put my finger on the reason why...
Daisy, don't worry about it, it's very much everyone's first instinct to suspect me. It's hilarious. I think I chose the wrong username for playing Mafia.

My username comes from the villain in Along Came a Spider, whose a serial killer/kidnapper. Yours is easy to understand for everyone but mine probably comes off worse to those who know the source.

This has got to be all kinds of illegal.

Epignosis wrote:

Elohcin wrote:I'm sorry I haven't been here. We've been moving. I see I have 12 pages to catch up on. Anyone want to give me a quick summary. I hate to ask, b/c I really despise it when others ask after not participating. But I feel like I have a good excuse. On top of moving this week, all three of my kids have gone through a stomach bug. So I was packing and moving AND getting very little sleep. Summary please?

None of this is true. The kids were fine and Eloh drank martinis the entire time I moved everything into the house, and she has the nerve to complain about missing necklaces.

She's a real card. Watch out for her.

Ha. Ha.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Elohcin wrote:I'm sorry I haven't been here. We've been moving. I see I have 12 pages to catch up on. Anyone want to give me a quick summary. I hate to ask, b/c I really despise it when others ask after not participating. But I feel like I have a good excuse. On top of moving this week, all three of my kids have gone through a stomach bug. So I was packing and moving AND getting very little sleep. Summary please?

Some people want to lynch spirit because he replaced Glorf after he said some pingy stuff. He seems to be the main wagon here. I don't see any other big ones.

Thanks DDL

And did we lynch sprit? And if so, was he bad? If not, who did we lynch? Were they bad? Who was killed Night 1? Was it more than one person? There are two baddie teams, I believe. And...it's now Day 2, right?

I'm done asking questions now. Thanks in advance. The stomach bug my kids dealt with while we were moving finally got a hold of me too. So I have been out of it for the past 24 hours. I am on the mend now. Had a piece of dry toast this morning and am sipping on some tea without any milk in it right now (blech). We are all up waiting for Epi to get his butt out of bed so we can open presents. I'm about to send the kids in there to pummel him

I'm sorry I haven't been here. We've been moving. I see I have 12 pages to catch up on. Anyone want to give me a quick summary. I hate to ask, b/c I really despise it when others ask after not participating. But I feel like I have a good excuse. On top of moving this week, all three of my kids have gone through a stomach bug. So I was packing and moving AND getting very little sleep. Summary please?

Sorsha wrote:Does anyone have the day zero poll that they'd be willing to share?

Curious as to what your thoughts are for wanting this.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
The only reason I don't want to lynch him actually is because his role flip is equally useless. This kind of player is better dealt with using abilities.

Concerning Snow Dog, DDL said this. Can you explain what you mean a little more clearly? Perhaps give me an example?

This isn't really exact science, but generally, I prefer reserving lynches to players who are more likely to provide information about other player's alignments when they flip, because they talked more with others and posted their own reads. Also, players who engage more with the game and actually have posts that can be analyzed, instead of just OT posts, so the town can analyze them together and hopefully reach a better conclusion that a lone vig would (vigs tend to have terrible aim). For players who do not fit that, killing is better imo because it gets read of a player who needs to be dealt with one way or another eventually without wasting a lynch. Specially in this site, where night deaths do not show roles.

In SD's case, not knowing others alignments would mean half of his worth in terms of revealing other's alignments is null (because he doesn't know his teammates), and he is impossible to read so even all of town working together could do as good a job at it as a coin flip.

Elohcin wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
He could be lying, but we have zero evidence of that. And past games is not evidence. This is mafia, everything can happen.

And, if he is lying, I see that as a way more likely sign of him being bad than otherwise. Lying as a civ is usually a bad move.

I disagree with the first part and agree with the second. I think past games can be used in figuring out someone's alignment.

I was talking about the matter of things being "impossible in mafia games because nobody has ever done them before".

No play is too crazy that some player wouldn't attempt it.

I don't think any of those quotes actually belong to me.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:The image is basically short for "Could you fucking not?"

I've always assumed that Quin's avatar was a relative of his...

me too!

Epignosis wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Zebra, Faraday, Long Con, Snow Dog, and you. I think those are the only ones in that game that were here discussing the subject. I will table my thoughts on Snow Dog and try to give him a fresh start in my book. I do seriously hate I wasted all that time on it though. I wasn't even going to read all those pages. I was just going to skim through as Day 0 is usually just fluff. But then it seemed important and noteworthy, so I read and commented, read and commented. Waste.

Where was Faraday discussing this?

Derp.

Was he discussing it in B T S C???????????????

Possibly

Epignosis wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Zebra, Faraday, Long Con, Snow Dog, and you. I think those are the only ones in that game that were here discussing the subject. I will table my thoughts on Snow Dog and try to give him a fresh start in my book. I do seriously hate I wasted all that time on it though. I wasn't even going to read all those pages. I was just going to skim through as Day 0 is usually just fluff. But then it seemed important and noteworthy, so I read and commented, read and commented. Waste.

Where was Faraday discussing this?

Derp.

sorry, that was directed at Epi. Apparently there was a lot of linki that failed to show up.

Zebra, Faraday, Long Con, Snow Dog, and you. I think those are the only ones in that game that were here discussing the subject. I will table my thoughts on Snow Dog and try to give him a fresh start in my book. I do seriously hate I wasted all that time on it though. I wasn't even going to read all those pages. I was just going to skim through as Day 0 is usually just fluff. But then it seemed important and noteworthy, so I read and commented, read and commented. Waste.

AND FWIW, his lying about the power role did us harm, not good.

If this is true, why did everyone let it go one for 4 pages? I just spend the last hour and a half reading and writing my opinion on the subject. I will never get that hour and a half back. I bet it even caused a wrinkle.

linki: I do now!

then I guess you cannot take me seriously.

a2thezebra wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:I'm playing without reading my role.

You could also be scum and lying, using this as a shield. "Anything scummy I say can't actually be scummy cause I don't even know my alignment."

I'm with the marmot. You seem like a great first lynch.

I don't like going after newcomers, but this post feels very disingenuous to me.

I know I cut this down a bit for space and emphasis, but I don't think I took anything away from it in doing so. I have to disagree with you Zebra. I think the newbie has a good point here.

He goes on to say...

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
I did consider it and dismissed it. Townies generally shouldn't lie but may do so for the greater good. I see no greater good in this.

I think I like you, Jack.

If Snow Dog decides to play this game without reading his role, then I don't see him as a caring participant. I don't see him as helpful to us whatsoever. But...from what I remember of Snow Dog, this is unlike him. So, I have to believe that he DOES care, that he HAS looked at his role, and he IS lying in order to be able to say that we cannot pin anything on him. His behavior cannot be bad b/c he doesn't even know if he is. I just don't buy it.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
The only reason I don't want to lynch him actually is because his role flip is equally useless. This kind of player is better dealt with using abilities.

Concerning Snow Dog, DDL said this. Can you explain what you mean a little more clearly? Perhaps give me an example?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
He could be lying, but we have zero evidence of that. And past games is not evidence. This is mafia, everything can happen.

And, if he is lying, I see that as a way more likely sign of him being bad than otherwise. Lying as a civ is usually a bad move.

I disagree with the first part and agree with the second. I think past games can be used in figuring out someone's alignment.

Epignosis wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Saying complete bullshit that makes yourself look bad just to get a reaction? There are better ways to get reactions that don't involve making yourself look bad.

Oh boy. I like this fellow.

I think this should be in sarcastic orange.

Notice how Epi and I have completely different views of this new guy.

--------------------------------------
So SD's comment about not reading his role went into 4 pages of posts. Then he sees he is taking heat for it and decides to say he was just joking. I don't believe it. I am sticking to my original judgement.

Checking in, folks. I had a wonderful day celebrating Christmas with Epi's family today. I am not caught up on the thread and I don't think I will do so. Four pages in Day 0. Y'all are out of your minds.

North, East, South, West - Never Eat Sugar Wafers. No, really...those things are pretty gross. I will pick......North. Because it's Christmas and that is where Santa lives. AND....it gives me the opportunity to tell you a funny story. This morning my youngest was in class at church. His teacher asked him, "Ephraim, what is Santa bringing you for Christmas?" Ephraim responded, "Well, I know that Santa isn't real." *Uncomfortable Silence*