The Syndicate

a2thezebra wrote:If I was worried that we would spread our votes to the extent that a person the vast majority of us have a town read on will be lynched, I wouldn't have dared vote Golden. But I am not that cynical.

This is why I wanted everyone to vote YOU :P Everyone that could anyway.

FZ. wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:TH is one of my strongest town reads. He has yet to make a post that I have second-guessed.

Really? He's not as opinionated as I expect, nor influencing things.

Zebra and TH are teamies, I would put money on it.

Golden wrote:If I had not already voted for sig, I would consider a vote for zebra. I still think floyd isn't a bad idea, though.

Was your vote forced?

Golden wrote:@Eloh - I think it is possible for you to be less cryptic about things you are hinting at, in light of epi's rulings, should you want to be.

Looks like I cannot. I will stop hinting as well since the rules have changed. I still think we need to lynch Zebra 2, and then perhaps TH after that. In fact, I will vote Zebra now. Follow me if you like.

Golden wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:There's nothing impulsive about my Golden vote.

I'm sure there isn't, you've suspected me all game.

However, I am House Atriedes (thanks for clarifying what can be claimed epi), I've already provided plenty of evidence that I have the same win con as zebra 1.0, and your vote for me will not help the civilians win the game.

Interesting. Matt, Mac, do you care to share what house you belong to?

I agree with you FZ. I think Zebra sounds disingenuous. I fear TH is stalling as well on the matter of Zebra and if Zebra turns out to be bad, I think TH may be the next best lynch.

Turnip Head wrote:Epi had a redirect role in the X-Men game, and it was a civ role. My role in Epi's WIllow game was a civ redirect role. But I've seen it as a baddie/indy role just as often.

I think it's more likely its a civ role as well.

@ Bea - I linked the sig and vebra b/c of their Day 2 votes. I was looking among the voters and trying to figure out who of them might be bad.

FZ. wrote:What exactly was redirected though, the kill? What about the votes?

I don't think the kill was. We would have read something about it, right?

bea wrote:I think 3 votes at the start of the day with no explanation is a super sign of forced votes don't you?

I agree. My question is, why three? Will there be more? Will the number of votes give us any indication as to WHO are placing these votes. I mean...what roles are placing these votes.

bea wrote:I think golden flat out saying "I"m sorry I'm on this train" is a signal.

I think eloh's constant talk about redirect roles is a signal.

Don't you?

FZ. wrote:Bea, of course I think there's a vote manipulation here, but I'm not sure it has to do with redirection. If there was a redirection, who was it aimed at in the first place? Or am I understanding redirection wrongly?

It sounds like you are understanding redirection correctly. So.....are we saying that it wasn;t supposed to be Sig that got all these votes? **scratchin' my head**

MacDougall wrote:What kind of set up you thinking bea? Scum trying to get sig lynched kind?

This is why I asked if the redirection role is usually a baddie or a civvie role. It would give me much information to know, or so I thought. Then Golden pointed out that it wouldn't matter b/c a baddie could redirect on a fellow baddie as Golden has witnessed MM wanting to do in BTSC before in another game.

Turnip Head wrote:
The player I'm most unsure of right now is Zebra. I have no read on her one way or the other.

I'm glad we're on the same page. Will you vote for her with me?

well, I am off to bed. I need to sleep while the chit'lins are. Night.

Golden, thanks for that, you are correct. Well...if a baddie redirected at another baddie (I know Epi doesn't allow self targeting but they could have redirected at a teammate) then I would love to be a fly on the wall in the BTSC right now. Haha...if they did that, they got what they deserve

a2thezebra wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Sorsha, who do you suspect as being a part of Team Hark?

THe more Zebra 2.0 talks the more I suspect her. I would go ahead and vote for her now, but I think we who are not voting sig need to stick together to help save him. Is anyone else down with a zebra vote today?

I've asked you for a single reason and you have yet to provide one.

Your vote yesterday and your tone overall. And I have responded to you in several different posts. I will not respond again. Read me again.

Sorsha wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Sorsha, who do you suspect as being a part of Team Hark?

THe more Zebra 2.0 talks the more I suspect her. I would go ahead and vote for her now, but I think we who are not voting sig need to stick together to help save him. Is anyone else down with a zebra vote today?

FZ and TH. I have a list of 6 players who I believe are not team hark. Zebra isn't on that list but I'd have to review her posts closer before I'd vote for her.

Zebra, FZ, and TH are my top suspects as well. Please reread Zebra and then tell me what you think.

@ Golden, I agree that Sig could still be good.

I will ask again...is a redirection role usually a baddie role or a civvie role. Can anyone answer that?

Sorsha, who do you suspect as being a part of Team Hark?

THe more Zebra 2.0 talks the more I suspect her. I would go ahead and vote for her now, but I think we who are not voting sig need to stick together to help save him. Is anyone else down with a zebra vote today?

Golden wrote:@Eloh - I've read all your posts very carefully.

And do you have any response?

I suspect there will be more votes on Sig before the day's end. What I am curious about is...why sig?

Is the redirection role usually a baddie role or a civ role?

@ Sorsha. I do. Are you voting for Sig today too?

Golden wrote:I don't know, straight up, whether they have kills or not.

What I do know is, I expected that Harkonnen would have the kill both nights, but it seemed to be less of a sure thing to you. That suggests to me that you have a different win condition to me. Not necessarily an anti-town one, just a different one.

@Eloh - feel free to talk about it. What do you think is the most likely explanation?

Please go back and read the posts I have made so far today. Then let's talk please.

MacDougall wrote:
I think you're right. I think Matt is from another faction that has kills that have failed.

Do you think the faction Matt is with has BTSC then?

Is no one else as intrigued as I am on all these Sig votes. Did I miss an explanation? Were you forced? Can you tell me if you were? Why you specifically? Why Sig specifically? I think we need to be talking about this.

Sorsha wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Poor Sig. Sorry this is happening to you bud.

linki....Niju is off the poll today? Who else has been off the poll so far? I am interested in who has this role and the redirection role. Suspicious things are among us and I don't like it.

Who is your top lynch suspect today Eloh? Zebra?

Yes.

a2thezebra wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I've seen this said a few times now. Why do you not put out your reads during the night?

If you are town and the scum kill you we have your thoughts. The scum killing a town version of you seems unlikely to me since you have a bit of suspicion on you.

I don't get it?

If the baddies kill me, I'm blaming you Mac

This is what I had written to share.....

I know you guys think I am crazy for my initial thoughts on Zebra's "overreaction". I had dropped the whole thing b/c she said she was joking and all. (i.e. my "you should have used sarcastic orange" comment.) I know some of you still harped on it, but for no good reason as I didn't suspect her any longer and did not vote for her (as I said). BUT!!!! Look at her vote in the poll. 5th overall, right after MM got two votes. I think she could be bad and felt like she needed to get eyes looking at another lynch possibility. I also think TH and FZ are possible baddies. I am not sure about Sig. If Zebra is bad, then I bet sig is civ and vise-versa. Also, I think Bea may be bad as well but that's just a hunch.

You're bad. There's civ tunneling and then there's baddie tunneling. This is the latter. Civs who tunnel at least look at other candidates and consider the different possibilities of what's going on. This is just ridiculous.

Um...I have looked at other candidates. And I underlined it above. Also, you are zebra 2, so going after you is not the same as going after zebra 1. Therefore, I have been looking at you for about, oh, a few hours, that is all. I have suspected at least 5 others along with you, Zebra 1, Niju, TH, FZ, and Bea. I am not tunneling.

Also, regarding your other post, I know what I am doing. I suspected Zebra 1 and retracted. Now I am suspecting Zebra 2.

sig wrote:Matt shouldn't come back until the day ends

I see Elohcin know on the poll I'll review her but as I said I'm reading Blooper as much more scummy. Blooper isn't available to lynch today though, and I've yet to do my ISO on Elohcin.

Know I'm interested in who did this to me, I'm thinking if not the mafia then the Empire, notice this all happened when I mentioned two mafia teams? Might be acting alittle paranoid but it is worth discussing imo.

I am interested as well. Stupid redirection role.

Who do you think would have done this?

What do you want me to elaborate on. Also, check the poll again. I'll be there shortly. :/

Who was suspecting sig? Who would have done this?

Poor Sig. Sorry this is happening to you bud.

linki....Niju is off the poll today? Who else has been off the poll so far? I am interested in who has this role and the redirection role. Suspicious things are among us and I don't like it.

MacDougall wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

Golden wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

Golden wrote:@Mac - Eloh ended up with no votes because she wasn't on the poll. Does that change your view?

Niju tried to vote for her though right?

Yes, but if they were teammates together do you think ninja would have had more awareness that she wasn't on the poll and not made that post, or do you think the 'trying to vote for her' would have been part of the ruse?

It certainly changes my opinion. The scenario is less likely. Don't overlook the fact that they could just as easily have not communicated. Niju might have made that post without conferring with Elo or the team. I feel like the assumption that the scum are always communicating at every waking moment is quite false.


But yes, less likely. I still like scum being in that duo there.

What is your read on that play?

This would be a cool baddie move, but it isn't what happened b/c I am not bad and have no BTSC with Niju. I am not sure of her alliance however.

Well of course you would say that. If you aren't bad then why did you choose to vote for Niju and not actually play a part in the final vote of a tied lynch?

Honestly, b/c I never see MM as bad. I always see him as a civ and I know that's not good but I can never tell when he is bad. Shh...don't tell him. And I didn't think the other guy was bad either.

sig wrote:Wait what, three votes at the start of the day why?

Whose got the redirection role Idiot!

MacDougall wrote:

Golden wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

Golden wrote:@Mac - Eloh ended up with no votes because she wasn't on the poll. Does that change your view?

Niju tried to vote for her though right?

Yes, but if they were teammates together do you think ninja would have had more awareness that she wasn't on the poll and not made that post, or do you think the 'trying to vote for her' would have been part of the ruse?

It certainly changes my opinion. The scenario is less likely. Don't overlook the fact that they could just as easily have not communicated. Niju might have made that post without conferring with Elo or the team. I feel like the assumption that the scum are always communicating at every waking moment is quite false.

But yes, less likely. I still like scum being in that duo there.

What is your read on that play?

This would be a cool baddie move, but it isn't what happened b/c I am not bad and have no BTSC with Niju. I am not sure of her alliance however.

sig wrote:No problem Sorsha,
Elohcin she replaced BWT I believe.

Thank you kind sir I knew someone could answer by the time I got finished catching up

linki: RIP Drac

FZ. wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I've seen this said a few times now. Why do you not put out your reads during the night?

If you are town and the scum kill you we have your thoughts. The scum killing a town version of you seems unlikely to me since you have a bit of suspicion on you.

I don't get it?

If the baddies kill me, I'm blaming you Mac

This is what I had written to share.....

I know you guys think I am crazy for my initial thoughts on Zebra's "overreaction". I had dropped the whole thing b/c she said she was joking and all. (i.e. my "you should have used sarcastic orange" comment.) I know some of you still harped on it, but for no good reason as I didn't suspect her any longer and did not vote for her (as I said). BUT!!!! Look at her vote in the poll. 5th overall, right after MM got two votes. I think she could be bad and felt like she needed to get eyes looking at another lynch possibility. I also think TH and FZ are possible baddies. I am not sure about Sig. If Zebra is bad, then I bet sig is civ and vise-versa. Also, I think Bea may be bad as well but that's just a hunch.

First of all, I can't look away from your avatar. Did you make that too? It's killing me

Now to the content itself, what does the first part have to do with Zebra 2?
Second, I have considered zebra working with MM, because as a baddie, I've always went for leading a lynch and not bandwagoning on one. You always look better. So it's an option. The thing is, she felt genuine to me. I guess I'll have to reread her.

Forgive me. It took me a minute to remember that this is Zebra 2. I've been battling a mighty cold, perhaps the flu, and I am struggling physically and mentally because of it. I am FINALLY on the mend as of today, I believe. It's been plaguing me for over a week now. That said, my suspicion of Zebra 2 is all the same. I cannot remember, who did Zebra 2 replace? I want to reread whoever it was. I will look back if I get no immediate answer form someone already in the thread at the moment, but if I don't have to look, I won't.

Reading on...

MacDougall wrote:I've seen this said a few times now. Why do you not put out your reads during the night?

If you are town and the scum kill you we have your thoughts. The scum killing a town version of you seems unlikely to me since you have a bit of suspicion on you.

I don't get it?

If the baddies kill me, I'm blaming you Mac

This is what I had written to share.....

I know you guys think I am crazy for my initial thoughts on Zebra's "overreaction". I had dropped the whole thing b/c she said she was joking and all. (i.e. my "you should have used sarcastic orange" comment.) I know some of you still harped on it, but for no good reason as I didn't suspect her any longer and did not vote for her (as I said). BUT!!!! Look at her vote in the poll. 5th overall, right after MM got two votes. I think she could be bad and felt like she needed to get eyes looking at another lynch possibility. I also think TH and FZ are possible baddies. I am not sure about Sig. If Zebra is bad, then I bet sig is civ and vise-versa. Also, I think Bea may be bad as well but that's just a hunch.

So I just wrote a paragraph about who I think is bad and why from looking at the poll. Then I remembered, its night...I am not posting this yet. So...I am saving it in a document and will share it with the morning sun.

nijuukyugou wrote:
So, I'm voting Eloh. Now, time to experiment with quinoa for the first time ever!

No U, No U, No U!!!

FZ. wrote:
4. Eloh, because I find it so out of character for Eloh to go read all the players individually, like she claims to have done. I'm seeing a very different Eloh than the one I'm used to. Maybe it's a new thing, or I just haven't played enough games with her, but I just don't know how to cope with this

It isn't new, I just usually wait to it until later in the game.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Elohcin on the other hand, looks to be in the same boat as me, just not really caught up. I don't think there are anything in her posts to call her good or bad.

Yes. I would like to know WHY I am suspicious. Many of you keep saying I am suspicious but yet you don't really say why. Someone you say it was my Day 1 vote. Didn't I miss the Day 1 vote? Yup...I did. I think maybe those of you that are thinking of voting me are bad. Except Sig. He is still suspicious of Bloops for not following through with her vote for me. He must not have BTSC if he still thinks I am on the poll.

Okay, so I haven't finished catching up. I still have to read all of page 16, but I have spent a good amount of time this afternoon reading players individually. I'm a pretty easily convinced mafia player so I decided that reading players individually and forming my own opinion for today would be better than reading the last page of the thread and listening to others' opinions. Anyway....all this to say, I am voting for niju. Her lack of input pings me. Although she is normally a low poster, she is still a helpful, influential low poster. The way she is acting now seems like her baddie self. Niju

I'm not bad. The baddies know I'm not bad. So you must be civ SVS.

Elohcin wrote:

NANANANANANA_BANANA wrote:Hey. I just realised that I haven't posted on this game. Sorry.

But you had posted. Twice.

okay...maybe not. I was thinking about another game I am in.

NANANANANANA_BANANA wrote:Hey. I just realised that I haven't posted on this game. Sorry.

But you had posted. Twice.

FZ. wrote:
I want to discuss Eloh. What do people think of her bandwagon on the "overreaction" of zebra?
I think my vote might go there, but I'd like to hear people's thoughts.

Wait....so agreeing with someone is automatically bandwagoning now?

FZ. wrote: So do you really find zebra suspicious for her overreaction? Is that the only reason?

All I did was agree that overreactions are a baddie tell and say that Zebra seems to overreact imo. After I said that Zebra overreacted, she said she was joking when changing the "you"'s to "I"'s. And then I said, "you should have used sarcastic orange." If she weren't joking, then it would have been a ping.

After my sarcastic orange comment, I never brought up Zebra again. So I don't know why you would keep on the idea that I thought Zebra still overreacted and was bad. Essentially you voted for me for reasons that are false.

Woah, I didn't see the host post until after I just posted my regrets. Woooo! I am so glad I am still here.....now to go and see who Zebra was cause I didn't even look at that. Goodness, I cannot waut to feel better. I am going on 5 days with this cold.

linki...I am guessing she was good. :/

I am so mad at myself for not voting. I am sick and my brain is muddled. Gah! And you know Epi doesn't play favorites b/c he didn't even hint that I was forgetting or anything.

@ FZ - I say speed game, I mean a side mission game...less players. When less players are involved, I can dive in a little easier.

FZ. wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Elohcin wrote:I don't find BR's post pingy. I just don't see it. However, I do agree with you about Zebra...wow what a suspicious reaction. And that he went in and changed all the "you"s to "I"s in the post Mac wrote about Matt is very disconcerting.

Why in the world is a joke disconcerting?

Maybe you should have used sarcastic orange.

a2thezebra wrote:Overall, I'm a bit alarmed that in general people seem to be more wary of my most definitely meta-supported "overreaction" than the incredibly fake and misleading arguments Golden has been making, regardless of whether that makes him a civvie that can't admit how hilariously hypocritical and unwarranted his initial suspicion was, or simply an opportunistic baddie. But on the bright side, this could help me and others get some leads on scummy folk. Maybe it is already.

Overreactions are a big scum tell imo. Unless you're MP, then its normal

This pinges me more than the whole golden/zebra thing.

First, Eloh is being more involved and opinionated than usual on day 1.
Second, I strongly disagree with the notion that overreaction is a baddie tell, especially on day 1.
Eloh just seems to be capitalizing on Golden's suspicion

Have you played with me lately? This is a speed game, I CAN be more involved on day 1. It is less overwhelming to me. Also, I am not capitalizing on Golden's suspicions as I haven't even paid much attention to Golden today.

a2thezebra wrote:

Elohcin wrote:I don't find BR's post pingy. I just don't see it. However, I do agree with you about Zebra...wow what a suspicious reaction. And that he went in and changed all the "you"s to "I"s in the post Mac wrote about Matt is very disconcerting.

Why in the world is a joke disconcerting?

Maybe you should have used sarcastic orange.

a2thezebra wrote:Overall, I'm a bit alarmed that in general people seem to be more wary of my most definitely meta-supported "overreaction" than the incredibly fake and misleading arguments Golden has been making, regardless of whether that makes him a civvie that can't admit how hilariously hypocritical and unwarranted his initial suspicion was, or simply an opportunistic baddie. But on the bright side, this could help me and others get some leads on scummy folk. Maybe it is already.

Overreactions are a big scum tell imo. Unless you're MP, then its normal

sig wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

Black Rock wrote:This is the first I have heard of policy lynches and I don't think it's in anyone's best interest.

This post rubs me the wrong way in a way I can't quite articulate, but I'll try to. I agree that Mac's plan is a crapshoot at best and destructive at worst, but the way BR words it here feels like she has inside knowledge on the situation. The little shrug at the end pings me too, as if BR is saying "Do what you'd like, ignorant civvies, I've said my piece."

I agree this is a slight ping to me can't give a good reason why it just is.

I've heard of policy lynches I'm not a fan of them at all. I'm wondering if zebra really thinks Mac thought votes weren't changeable or if zebra is just saying that. I think Mac would've voted for MAtt and ended the day with this vote regardless. So this almost seems like Zebra is covering for Mac's vote by saying it was a joke and we shouldn't pursue/question Mac about it.

a2thezebra wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I am the perfect day 1 lynch in every game I play. As a townie I distract from genuine scum hunting with tunneling, a lack of focus and volumes upon volumes of posts trying to get people to ignore their genuine scum hunting efforts and follow my uninspired scumdar ... and of course there is as good a chance that I'm scum as anybody else. I'm a policy lynch for myself in every game I play. I make no apologies for this.

Fixed that for you.

But seriously people, I think we can chalk this up to Mac making a mistake by failing to read the rule that says you can't change your vote, (which to be fair, I almost did myself, and only didn't because I checked the rules for whether my vote should be bolded or underlined or whatever else) and now that his vote is permanent he's just having fun pretending that his mistake (which was ironically originally intended to poke fun at yours truly) is in fact a genuine permanent vote backed up by reasoning. I'm more suspicious right now of the people that are trying to make it look like his behavior here is actually suspicious (Golden, and to a lesser extent Black Rock) as opposed to silly. Mac has even stated openly that what he is doing is encouraging game-related discussion right off the bat, which it is. Incidentally, that's the main reason I placed an imaginary vote on Matt F in the first place.

I wouldn't say Mac's behavior is overly suspicious just slightly what I find more suspicious is Zebras defense of Mac's vote and saying people shouldn't suspect him, I can also see what Golden says about Zebra potential setting up for a future lynch.
Out of the Golden/Zebra exchange I think GOlden comes out looking better as of right know I could place my vote on Zebra.

I don't find BR's post pingy. I just don't see it. However, I do agree with you about Zebra...wow what a suspicious reaction. And that he went in and changed all the "you"s to "I"s in the post Mac wrote about Matt is very disconcerting.

Golden wrote:MacDougall has claimed a policy lynch of tunnelling on someone who he considers is unhelpful to scum-hunting effort because he tunnels.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Policy-lynching a player Day 1 every game is unproductive, especially if you declare such a plan.

My thoughts exactly. There are other ways to have a better shot at getting a baddie on Day 1.