The Syndicate

Have we determined, fellow inmates, whether votes are changeable? I am goal-focused right now and haven't stopped to breath.

Epignosis wrote:I am most suspicious of sig because of his frantic defense of Fuzz, his willingness to allege anybody and everybody, and accusing people for doing or saying things he himself has done and said.

Is a frantic defense of a baddie typical baddie behavior? Is it typical of sig? This is an easy accusation to render. Is there a specific moment that pinged you strongly enough to shed the doubts associated with this kind of read (suspecting a player for defending a baddie)?[/quote]

S~V~S wrote:

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Since ika was the counterwagon to Fuzz who WAS bad, I find it hard to see him as bad, although I guess anything is possible.

I've never understood this mindset, at least not the most general concept of it: that a baddie cannot be the counterwagon of another baddie. That would only indicate that the townies are on point, and I don't think that's outrageous. However, the development of the counterwagon and other contextual details could change my mind. Is there a reason specific to that context that makes you feel this way, or is it purely that ika was the counterwagon?

It was a CFD, and Fuzz had ZERO votes when it started. There was some panic and some people pushing hard against the Fuzz wagon. Like Quin, and Fuzz himself had voted for ika, and kept his vote there. I guess it is possioble, but two others had 4 or 5 votes at that time, and I doubt they were all baddies. and ika would up with the most visible votes, even though Fuzz was lynched:

Okay, a massive CFD is definitely important context so I can understand a bit better. I do think that it's fair to assume that a CFD which fell onto a confirmed mafia Fuzz was probably more town-motivated than not (because if ika is town then the mafia obviously are content to keep it there, and if ika is mafia then it'd be a huge risk to kill one member and leave other as a top suspect still). With that in mind, I'm still not sure it says much about ika's alignment. I'm not saying ika is a top suspect though, because my own interactive read wasn't terribly conclusive.

Checking sig's interactions with Fuzz:
Golden makes an assertive statement against Serge and Fuzz, sig only responds about Serge.
Another suspect I've been handed here seemingly because he defended the confirmed baddie. I will state again that I don't think it's inherently suspicious for a player to defend a bad guy. Townies have screwed up in every Mafia game ever played. If I have any problem at all with this, it'd be his trepidation about the CFD which recalls baddie DharmaHelper's behavior in the 2015 GOC. I don't think this is very suspicious at face value though honestly.
I don't fault someone for being dubious about slip assertions. Most "slips" aren't slips.
Immediate reaction to the flip revealing how wrong his read was. Personally, when I'm town and I get a read catastrophically wrong... "oops lol" is exactly the kind of thing I say. I mean what can you do?

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I don't think sig looks bad. The first bit was a little negative, but it's tiny and insignificant IMO.

Quin wrote:Should I be under the impression that Matt 1.0 is a prisoner? hyuckhyuckhyuck

I've just posted an ISO of sorts about you. Please check my post history and share your thoughts on it at your earliest convenience.

indiglo wrote:

Prisoner 509378 wrote:This is a point that has likely already been discussed to some degree, but I'll raise it again anyway: Fuzz was lynched despite trailing in his tally by one vote. That likely means there were extra votes in play somewhere, probably via the loan shark(s). The late votes that secured the lynch, like Turnip Head and Sloonei -- how have those been received?

I'm reminded of a particular bus vote by Russ in the Talking Heads game that earned him town credibility for nearly the whole game before the town finally figured it out.

Both of these players' names have been mentioned a couple of times as suspicious. So far, I don't believe any major cases have been made on either of them, but I may be forgetting something again. (But I don't think I am.)

What's your take?

Thanks by the way for the details via the S~V~S quote.

S~V~S wrote:Since ika was the counterwagon to Fuzz who WAS bad, I find it hard to see him as bad, although I guess anything is possible.

I've never understood this mindset, at least not the most general concept of it: that a baddie cannot be the counterwagon of another baddie. That would only indicate that the townies are on point, and I don't think that's outrageous. However, the development of the counterwagon and other contextual details could change my mind. Is there a reason specific to that context that makes you feel this way, or is it purely that ika was the counterwagon?

a2thezebra wrote:

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:What lynches are you sold on, 509?

I just got out of jail. I'm never going back. That means I'm not planting my flag into any camps until I know I've made the best principled choice.

You've voted for ika, I see. Why?

I think him and the warden are in cahoots.

I'm not here for jokes. Why did you vote for ika?

No. You don't understand.

Answer my question and I'll answer yours.

I'm not here to bargain either. I've just come here from jail, I have immediately set to my task, and that is all anyone can possibly ask of me. Your request is unreasonable. Mine is not. If you will not answer it, then I will assume you have no answer and color you a suspect accordingly.

a2thezebra wrote:

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:What lynches are you sold on, 509?

I just got out of jail. I'm never going back. That means I'm not planting my flag into any camps until I know I've made the best principled choice.

You've voted for ika, I see. Why?

I think him and the warden are in cahoots.

I'm not here for jokes. Why did you vote for ika?

This is a point that has likely already been discussed to some degree, but I'll raise it again anyway: Fuzz was lynched despite trailing in his tally by one vote. That likely means there were extra votes in play somewhere, probably via the loan shark(s). The late votes that secured the lynch, like Turnip Head and Sloonei -- how have those been received?

I'm reminded of a particular bus vote by Russ in the Talking Heads game that earned him town credibility for nearly the whole game before the town finally figured it out.

a2thezebra wrote:What lynches are you sold on, 509?

I just got out of jail. I'm never going back. That means I'm not planting my flag into any camps until I know I've made the best principled choice.

You've voted for ika, I see. Why?

indiglo wrote:

Prisoner 509378 wrote:My recollection is that there was a core of us uncomfortable with the 3 main candidates: ika, gleam and LC. So we discussed just pooling our votes and going elsewhere. A few names were tossed around, 1 them eventually being Fuzz. SVS jumped on, did a quick ISO and found something off. The thread was moving SUPER fast, and there was MUCH discussion about whether or not the "off thing" was really a thing, or just some hare brained tangent.

I felt better about the "off thing" from Fuzz than I did about the 3 candidates, so popped my vote on there and hoped for the best. Interesting thing was, after we had gotten Fuzz up to being the leader (many Gleam voters hopped off Gleam and onto Fuzz) LC came in and tied ika with Fuzz. Then lastly, sig jumped on and put ika in the lead. Fuzz still got lynched though.

Does that help at all? It was a crazy day, to say the least.

It helps a great deal, thank you. The context of the lynch progression is crucial to my being able to fully grasp each important variable. When you say "the off thing" in reference to Fuzz, what do you mean?

Checking Quin's interactions with Fuzz:
I'm not a fan of this post for a couple of reasons:

1. Quin backed off of an assertion that I think is sometimes agreeable (blatantly strange behavior is often a towntell) and I don't know why he felt this compulsion to change his mind.
2. This sort of dialogue with a confirmed baddie is a bit suspicious at face value. It's tame, it's safe, and most importantly it features the impression of distance (Fuzz challenging a Quin point) but without any sort of actual accusation.
It's easy to look at a post like this and come to an immediate negative stance. Quin staunchly defended a confirmed baddie. That doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing though, because in my experience when a player is this dead wrong on a read it usually is reflective of genuine wrongness. On the occasion it is indeed maliciously-motivated, it tends to come from players who have a special knack for WIFOM (like MacDougall for example). I don't know that I'd associate Quin with that type of player, though I acknowledge that I haven't played with him. I'd like to hear what Sloonei thinks of this specific thought given his experience playing with Quin.
Again a strong pro-Fuzz stance is asserted. The same principles apply. By this point it appears a Fuzz lynch was well in hand? Please correct me anyone if I am mistaken. If that's the case, then one could argue that Quin didn't want to make the always-suspicious late-phase pile-on vote for a team mate. However, it is at least consistent with Quin's prior defensiveness of Fuzz and I don't think that assumption should be automatic.
I'll look at one post-Fuzz-lynch post too here. Given that Quin was so incorrect about Fuzz, I think there's value in checking his reaction to the baddie flip. He stood by his guns and a little frustration showed through the cracks too. At least in terms of tone, I am not perturbed.

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The first post is the worst of it that I can see. However, I am not overwhelmingly sold on a Quin lynch. His defenses of Fuzz do not bear the standard appearance of a mafia-mafia interaction. It's possible, but it's atypical.

indiglo wrote:@Prisoners, are you going to be out of prison permanently now? Or is this limited time only? (I'm asking due to my own time constraints.) If you can tell me, of course - please no more killing of civ prisoners.

There are questions we cannot answer, and answers we do not have.

Thanks for your answers, everyone.

Checking indiglo's content relative to Fuzz's, because she's right here and my brain is on fire. Let's go.
It's nice that she was willing to cast a frown in his direction relatively early, but she was also a bit forgiving (see the highlighted content). You've stated a reason here to be suspicious of Fuzz, but you haven't quite taken it on yourself given the final statement. This could be seen as a tentative distancing effort.
indiglo contributed to the Fuzz lynch while he was unavailable. That's not a bad look, though context would be helpful here. Could anyone clarify: at the time of this indiglo vote for Fuzz, was the lynch progressing cleanly or was there a significant resistance (particularly a counterwagon)? I can't see a polls thread if there is one.

Everyone: having followed the full climate of this game thread, I have a question for you:

Who, entering this day phase, seem to be the players regarded with the most suspicion? I ask this question because it will help to narrow my immediate analytic focus. I will decide whether or not I agree.

Prisoner 740359 wrote:linki: homie50 making such a thorough post already is making me dizzy

I'm never going back.

Matt 2.0 has given me a clear angle to investigate first. I am unsure about a slip yet, but what I can do is assess ika in a more comprehensive way: relative to RadicalFuzz the dead baddie.
Without the benefit of a fuller context, this appears to be an inconsequential exchange more relevant to the ika/Silverwolf relationship than this Mafia game. That could suggest Fuzz used this opportunity to build his post count and assume the right appearance, but I don't think that reflects any particular way on ika.
I don't quite see a history in ika's posts to support an anti-Fuzz vote, but at least this exists I suppose. Golden, given that you were directly in this exchange, how did you feel about ika's willingness to join you here? Am I to assume the vote came as advertised?

post / post / post

These three posts feature ika giving sig crap for his defenses of Fuzz relative to a debated "slip". The brevity of ika's comments doesn't make me feel great because it naturally means he's espousing reads without much explanation. However, the tone conveyed is one I find myself appreciating at face value at least. It could be argued that ika was trying to link sig to Fuzz, but I don't think that's the best assumption. The language is so frank and brief that I struggle to find a manipulative candor in it.

Fuzz was lynched after this point.

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At least as it pertains to Fuzz interactions, I see no glaring reason to go after ika. Matt, I'll need more with regards to the "slip" you've proposed to come to a more conclusive stance.

indiglo wrote:Prison break!! *locks up her valuables*


What has happened so far:
We have been playing an internet game where everyone receives a random role. Even though everyone is friends, some are supposed to kill others, so some arguing and accusations go flying. Some people died, some ended up in prison, some are now free while others are still dead. And voila - it is today.

Have you been subject to a sufficient quantity of flying accusations?

Matt wrote:

ika wrote:ok so i wanted to sayt his for the longest time but i couldnt ue to psot restrciosn but......

sloon is porbally a don based on the failed arrest.

Here.

ika assumes sloon is a don based on the failed arrest. Meaning he knows who was failed to be arrested, which he, theoretically, shouldn't know.

Please provide the fullest context you can -- not just the post itself but the variables of relevance to include roles, game events, et cetera... I need to know everything about ika's post and why it's a problem before I can render judgment.

Matt wrote:Prisoners, what do you make of ika's slip?

Show me. I will tell you what I make of anything. Just show me.

I'm out, and I'm here to help. I'm never going back there, you hear me?