The Syndicate

Prisoner 509378

Nero's reaction looks like top grade b/s.

Prisoner 509378

Initial reactions to confirmed cop Dom not being lynched:

Sloonei wrote:

Soneji wrote:Or you for all we know Sloonei. Will have to evaluate some things

Epignosis wrote:There's more shortsightedness here than in a obstetrician's office from The Shire.

Nerolunar wrote:Just when we thought we could lock down some variables. What do we do? If we get to live another day Im inclined to believe Elohcin is still a valid lynch option, if just to decrease the number of cops.

Elohcin wrote:
Spoiler: show

Turnip Head wrote:Well, it didn't benefit us for me to say this earlier, but I am aware of at least one possibility for both non-Don civilians and cops alike to have access to a lynch pardon.

Based on all information available to me, based on voting records and revealed roles etc, I find it nearly impossible that Dom is a Don. He could be a civvie that gained access to a lynch pardon, but I also find this unlikely due to this post:

Dom wrote:I don't. Not if we cannot both survive for civvie reasons.
If Dom survived for a civvie reason, he would know that it is possible for at least one other civvie to survive for the same reason that he did.

In conclusion, I think we should lynch Dom tomorrow.

chaindeath wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Epi
Dom
Eloh
chaindeath

That is what I think the scum team looks like. We've probably already lost, but whatever.
And a list like that is why.

Punch some holes in mine.
I can't even fathom you being good at this point. Dom is not a Don and I don't think he's a Stool Pigeon (unsubstantiated), so I think he was saved by some scum mechanic. That leaves Elohcin, chaindeath, Nerolunar, and Soneji. Soneji and Nerolunar strike me as more believable townies than Eloh and chaindeath.[/quote]

Why?

Prisoner 509378

Conversely, I find myself wondering what to do with this one. I'm glad I squeezed it out of Dom.

Dom wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Dom wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:You could start by sharing your perceived team of four cops.
Chaindeath
Nerolunar
Elo?
Soneji?
What makes you feel inclined to leave Epignosis out?
I don't fully understand why people think he is bad.

My initial reaction was that Dom spewed Epi town, showing that he was trying to stay on Epi's good side. But to borrow Epi's own term, that might be "kid gloves".

Prisoner 509378

Sloonei wrote:I think Turnip Head looks good in all of those exchanges. The Mongoose vote trade thing on Day 1 strikes me as something that would draw an unnecessary and bold connection between two teammates so early in the game. Add that with Dom's willingness to push for his lynch on Day 7, and his self-defense by way of throwing Turnip Head's name out there when I was accusing him yesterday, and TH supposedly being the Don and I don't think I'll be voting for TH today.

Concur.

Prisoner 509378

All documented votes placed by Mongoose, Draconus, and Dom:

Mongoose
Day 1: Turnip Head (final)
Day 2: None
Day 3: None
Draconus
Day 4: Draconus (final)
Day 5: DDL (final)
Day 6: None
Dom
Day 7: Turnip Head (final)
Day 8: None
Day 9: Scotty (final)
Day 10: None

Prisoner 509378

Things Mongoose, Draconus, and Dom said about Turnip Head:

Spoiler: show

Mongoose wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Yay Game

Old school, right into the lynch~
Certainly refreshing but bad timing for me personally. I'll be in Margaritaville all weekend for a wedding. So we should find the po-po quickly

Me too! I'm finishing my last 16 hours of my 200-hour Yoga Teacher Training. But honestly I'm just always slammed, just different levels of outrageously busy.

I want Simon to be in this game.

Mongoose wrote:OKay, so here's the deal. I don't feel comfortable randomly voting. Thank you for your comments, and I agree that an ika vote today is not the way to go -- I appreciate your candor. I'll be around a lot next weekend, and you'll get to see how talky I can be -- anyone remember the first year of TS when Sock and I would fill pages?

ANYWAY sorry I'm constant digressions.

Since I don't feel comfortable making a case on anyone or buying into the current ones (so I'm going to offer TurnipHead this since Vompatti or Llama or etc isn't around) -- TH - would you fancy a vote trade? I'm going to vote you for admittedly no discernible reason -- please feel free to return the favor!

Sorry crew, I've got to jet and I just Do NOT like to miss votes.

* votes TurnipHead *

Mongoose wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:
Black Rock wrote:
sig wrote:I don't like this huge bandwagon on gleam, espacilly since nobody has ever actually explained their suspicion of him, or if they have I don't remember it.

I've got a slight mafia gut read on Wilgy.

Also I find it odd how quite Zebra/LC seem to be this game.
I agree with this. I am mostly caught up and I really don't understand how Gleam has so many votes so early in the day. I understand votes are changeable but with this level it's making a statement and I don't understand the case.
This is where I'm at. Scotty's vote seems questionable to me, I haven't looked at the other votes in depth yet. Scotty said he was voting for Gleam "Because", and then when asked to elaborate, he said:

Scotty wrote:As for me voting gleam: it's mostly a continuation suspicion of my night 1 eyeing of him for being a floppy pancake. But I'm far too lazy to look it up right now. About to enter a poker tournament.

This isn't just. Throwaway vote on a wagon. It's just gut, and he happens to have a bunch of votes piles on as well, so there's that.
So idk, but putting the sixth vote on a wagon more than 24 hours before the lynch deadline, when it doesn't look like a "pressure vote" or like it's furthering the read, well it looks like it's just there. I feel like I can't judge Scotty's motives until the Day is over and I see what else he does with his vote, but right now I feel like he's just gonna keep it parked there until deadline and that feels weird to me for reasons I can't really articulate.
I see where you are going with this, but I totally read Scotty in this post as someone who just needed to phone it in for a day. I think about 5 other people were voting for gleam right up until the minutes leading up until lynchtime.

Dom wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:Matt rejoined the game into a civilian role. Matt 1.0 could not have been the seemer, Sloonei is correct. Any baddie by default cannot rejoin a game.
unless they rejion their team. Don't know if that's plausible here.

I'm hoping TH responds to my question. I want to hear what he has to say before judging the case.

Dom wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
Sloonei wrote:As we get closer to the deadline I think ot becomes imperative that we all consolidate our votes on one player. There's too much behind the scenes vote shenanigans going on to comfortably have split votes if it's not necessary.
Either that, or we have two we pretty much ALL suspect so it makes baddie shenanigans harder. I am happy with my vote on Turnip Head, but am also good with all the votes on Boomrique. That also plays into the plan for signalling that 509378 was discussing.

We have had some really good talk today, thanks for putting up with me not being a part of it. Sometimes life is that way.

I will probably post again towards the end of day, mainly if a vote change is required, or to reaffirm my vote for teh TH.

Welcome replacement people, goodluck catching up, if you read anything,read the last hour of Day 2 starting here, with Fuzz' Day 2 vote for ika:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 78#p242378

And going to the lynch post. It explains a lot of the rest of the game.
Thank you.

SVS, you and I both genuinely read TH as civ in Arkham, I think. What sets him apart in this game?

thellama73 wrote:All right, I can get behind a Boomslang lynch, because if Turnip Head is playing a baddie game, it's one of the most brilliant I've ever seen.
Can you clarify why you don't want to lynch TH?

Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Dom wrote:Why might someone vote Boomslang over TH? HAs he just been really fleety?
He replaced Enrique, whose behavior whioe he was in the game was not the most civie thing in the world. He appeared to take nothing seriously until we lynched RadicalFuzz, a cop, and Enrique got mad. He also was voting for Fuzz before the bandwagon against him started, and then Enrique immediately switched his vote to someone else (ika, i think) once the real Fuzz votes started coming in.

His post history is not that long if you want to check it out for yourself.
Thank you.

thellama73 wrote:This one:

Epignosis wrote:I started going through Turnip Head's posts, and stopped here:

Turnip Head wrote:I want to lead a CFD counterwagon because I don't like any of these 3, but I have no idea where to go. My vote is accomplishing nothing but I don't know where else to put it. I really hope Epi doesn't get lynched, I haven't played with him in forever and I'm liking his new approach this game.
Question: If Turnip Head is a cop, how does this Day 2 post make sense?
How does one day 2 post erase the rest of the case?

I could see myself voting for either candidate, but I'd like to hear a response from TH (and Boom, if possible)

Dom wrote:I got called into work. I'll try and check in before day ends.

I'm voting TH at least for now.

Dom wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:On the flip side, Dom gave the appearance that he was working out his vote as much as he could before he placed it. I'm not inclined to hand him the key to the city for that though, because if I were a baddie thrust into his position I would certainly try to at least take on the right "form" before tossing my vote onto a mislynch.

So on that front, neither Elohcin nor Dom can win. I don't like the lack of an effort to justify a vote, and I don't like the effort to justify it either. It's a tough scenario.
Questions about this:

#1) I'm not reading 160+ pages of the game to catch up. I'm just not. You wouldn't ever hear from me. Given this, I asked for summaries. I did my best. I listened to your feedback, waited for TH to respond, didn't get one, needed to vote, and did so. What could I have possibly done differently? I don't really understand why you find me suspicious, only that you apparently do. Many people voted TH, and I tried to educate my vote. Why am I criminal for doing so?

#2) Why can't I win?

Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Anyone want to join me in voting for Don/Draconus/Mongoose? Collectively they've provided almost no content. Dom hasn't been inactive since he showed up, but his posts do not represent anything that would be diffocult for a scum player to fake. I think we've definitely tot lurker scums on our hands in this game and he fits the bill better than anyone else.
....so...why am I bad?

Turnip Head wrote:wtf, RIP sig

Sorry that I haven't had time for this. Where should I vote? As of right now I don't want to vote for Epignosis or Scotty but I also haven't read the cases on them. I feel good about both of them from what I've read. chaindeath, Domconus and Soneji are all options for me.
Why?

Nerolunar wrote:My vote on Chaindeath is going nowhere, so Im changing it. I think Domcongoose looks worse than Scotty tbh, so Im voting for him.

Dom
WHY?!

Turnip Head wrote:Well I hope you guys are right about Scotty. .. Ive been wrong about most things so far so maybe I'm wrong about him too, but I think he's town.

Voted for Dom.
W H Y?

Dom wrote:SVS, I read the end of day 2. I definitely get the Turnip Head suspicion. He didn't say much during that period of substance. A lot of posts with no content and reluctance to vote who might be his teammate.

I'd still like a response from him.

Dom wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:I think Dom's initial reaction is rather telling though. Instead of staunchly contesting me for essentially calling him a confirmed cop, he just acted like he didn't understand my methods. He should be fighting for his life and getting angry.
1) Don't really have time for that
2) Why shouldn't I want to know where you're getting your conclusion from so I can defend myself?

Sloonei wrote:I was reading Dom's posts and I started to doze off. It's not you, it's me, Dom! But my hazy less-than-half-awake interpretation was that he's a baddie trying to hammer home this victory by finally breathing some life into a roster spot in this game that has been completely void up until he showed up (I commend him for his effort regardless of alignment. Thank you Dom). He's been vocal and appeared open minded, but I haven't seen a single word of him resisting any idea in the thread except for the suggestion that he might be bad, which he vehemently shoots down all the time. Other than that, he's just going along with any suspect that come up in the thread. His vote can go anywhere every day and he's leaving things open and using this to his advantage. Putting my vote on Dom.
Oh really?

Because I've been around since Day 7. I voted Turnip Head on Day 7, and so did you. I missed Day 8. I voted Scotty on Day 9. That's what you call following any bandwagon? I gave thoughts on both of these.

Epignosis wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Tinfoil theory that I want see come to fruition: the Prisoner is an insider working foe the cops. His role in this game was to take the families down from the inside. Like Leo. He has been steering us all in the wrong direction since he showed up. Like Leo.
I've thought a little about how awesome it would be if I was a convincted serial killer and y'all paroled me.
It's happened before. Ask S~V~S.
lol

Dom wrote:Sloonei, why is Turnip Head's disappearance less suspicious than my attempt to play this game?
Because he hasn't given a shit since he was lynched.

Tons of stuff. Talk to me.

Prisoner 509378

Things Mongoose, Draconus, and Dom said about Soneji:

Spoiler: show

Do with it what you can, town crew.

Prisoner 509378

It literally won't let me post this because the quote pyramids are too big. You have enough to judge anyway, so do it.

Failure to snip massive quote pyramids is scummy.

Prisoner 509378

Things Mongoose, Draconus, and Dom said about Sloonei:

Spoiler: show

Mongoose wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I will not be apologizing or moving my vote off her until/unless she responds. Or else it would have been an entirely pointless exercise. But I certainly don't intend on that being my final vote.
Dude, I'm just busy. When I have meat, I'll make sure you are firstly named on the meat doorside delivery service route. Meat for every mouth, and a Mazda in every garage -- isn't that how it goes?

Mongoose wrote:Before I vote ika for the odd post on Silverwolf, is that something we do around here now? Vote for people to get their attention?

Sloonei - no worries, I saw -- I always try to respond directly to anyone who's made a comment or query my way. Thanks to the ole handy Ctrl+F

Draconus wrote:
Silverwolf wrote:
Draconus wrote: I had something typed up, had to go back to work, came back to post, and it disappeared. FML.

ika wrote:in that case im voting draconous for now

im saddened that silver thinks my budding is scum. shes should knwo thats the nullest of null tells
Why?

I had a comment on DDL because he's being brought up as a lynch candidate: I feel good about him because of his actions surrounding the Fuzz situation.

Sig: I don't think Silver answered my question, but this to anyone who wants to answer. Why is Sig a suspect? I've read some of the more recent discussions surrounding him but I still don't know.
What question is that? I don't think did is a suspect. I'm voting for ika cuz he's buddying the fuck out of me.
I asked you in an earlier post what your thoughts were on the Sig votes and on Sig himself. I don't have many posts and they're not very long so I understand missing it.

Also, there's a history here of significant others being able to read each other very well (it's not 100% but I do remember it happening several times). Also, Matt's post below peeked my interest in ika. Can you (or anyone else) confirm that ika said Sloonei was a failed arrest?

Matt wrote:
ika wrote:
S~V~S wrote:ika you have info? Or is this your opinion? You are stating it as a fact. When we do that here, it tends to be a hint of sorts most of the time. Not always, but more often than not.
its opinion. when i say someoes town its mostly opion but my phraseing can eb odd
Hrm.

We should lynch ika. And if he turns up bad, we lynch SVS next for this back and forth here which presents us with "awww ika just has odd phrasing, no wonder he phrased that 'sloonei was the failed arrest' thing the way he did."

Derp.

Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Dom wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Dom wrote:My point is that you are needlessly elaborating to a make a point already made. You are nervously dancing around topics, and on a tone level, it reads you are bad.
What other topicS would this apply to?
That wording was poor, and I thank you for pointing out my error. It is a singular topic. I do think you are nitpicking a bit, because my point still stands.
Do you have anything else to say about Quin?
To be honest, not much.

I'm trying my best wiht limited time in a game where I have little footing.

Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Anyone want to join me in voting for Don/Draconus/Mongoose? Collectively they've provided almost no content. Dom hasn't been inactive since he showed up, but his posts do not represent anything that would be diffocult for a scum player to fake. I think we've definitely tot lurker scums on our hands in this game and he fits the bill better than anyone else.
....so...why am I bad?

Turnip Head wrote:wtf, RIP sig

Sorry that I haven't had time for this. Where should I vote? As of right now I don't want to vote for Epignosis or Scotty but I also haven't read the cases on them. I feel good about both of them from what I've read. chaindeath, Domconus and Soneji are all options for me.
Why?

Nerolunar wrote:My vote on Chaindeath is going nowhere, so Im changing it. I think Domcongoose looks worse than Scotty tbh, so Im voting for him.

Dom
WHY?!

Turnip Head wrote:Well I hope you guys are right about Scotty. .. Ive been wrong about most things so far so maybe I'm wrong about him too, but I think he's town.

Voted for Dom.
W H Y?

Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Anyone want to join me in voting for Don/Draconus/Mongoose? Collectively they've provided almost no content. Dom hasn't been inactive since he showed up, but his posts do not represent anything that would be diffocult for a scum player to fake. I think we've definitely tot lurker scums on our hands in this game and he fits the bill better than anyone else.
....so...why am I bad?

Turnip Head wrote:wtf, RIP sig

Sorry that I haven't had time for this. Where should I vote? As of right now I don't want to vote for Epignosis or Scotty but I also haven't read the cases on them. I feel good about both of them from what I've read. chaindeath, Domconus and Soneji are all options for me.
Why?

Nerolunar wrote:My vote on Chaindeath is going nowhere, so Im changing it. I think Domcongoose looks worse than Scotty tbh, so Im voting for him.

Dom
WHY?!

Turnip Head wrote:Well I hope you guys are right about Scotty. .. Ive been wrong about most things so far so maybe I'm wrong about him too, but I think he's town.

Voted for Dom.
W H Y?
Process of elimination. The spot you occupy in this game has been absent all game long, and we've almost certainly had at least one lurking, inactive scum player. Surely you can understand this.
No. I can't. There are at least two people who are also inactive. There is zero rationale here. I have tried very hard to participate.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:Hey Dom, gun to head read on Scotty GO
I've posted about Scotty, but apparently I've been lurking. I don't trust him. I trust SVS, I think, and she doesn't. No one seems to remember opinions he has had, and that is not something I associate with civvie scotty.

continuing...

Prisoner 509378

Things Mongoose, Draconus, and Dom said about Nerolunar:

Spoiler: show

Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Anyone want to join me in voting for Don/Draconus/Mongoose? Collectively they've provided almost no content. Dom hasn't been inactive since he showed up, but his posts do not represent anything that would be diffocult for a scum player to fake. I think we've definitely tot lurker scums on our hands in this game and he fits the bill better than anyone else.
....so...why am I bad?

Turnip Head wrote:wtf, RIP sig

Sorry that I haven't had time for this. Where should I vote? As of right now I don't want to vote for Epignosis or Scotty but I also haven't read the cases on them. I feel good about both of them from what I've read. chaindeath, Domconus and Soneji are all options for me.
Why?

Nerolunar wrote:My vote on Chaindeath is going nowhere, so Im changing it. I think Domcongoose looks worse than Scotty tbh, so Im voting for him.

Dom
WHY?!

Turnip Head wrote:Well I hope you guys are right about Scotty. .. Ive been wrong about most things so far so maybe I'm wrong about him too, but I think he's town.

Voted for Dom.
W H Y?

Dom wrote:
Nerolunar wrote:Damn. Crappy situation we are in, but I believe that we can still win! I like Sonejis recent posts and GTH he strikes me as civ.

My top scum reads are Chaindeath and Dom. Doms recent posts lacks civ motivation and he does not come off as someone who is struggling to win.
"Lacks civ motivation"
Qualify this statement.

Dom wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:You could start by sharing your perceived team of four cops.
Chaindeath
Nerolunar
Elo?
Soneji?

Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I don't like Dom's refusal to accept that he's a valid suspect. I also don't like his exasperation in the face of being lynched, strangely. He just got here. I don't think a townie who just showed up this late in a game would be as passionate about being lynched as he's been.

God this is the most bullshit case I've ever given but somehow I believe it.
So first I don't care enough about being lynched and now I cared too much?
When did I ever imply the former point?
Maybe you didn't, but either you or Prisoner have.
And, frankly, it's exhausting to replace into a huge game and almost immediately take heat for reasons you don't understand that often contradict each other. I've been told I care too much and too little about being lynched. I've been told that I don't have enough thoughts and that I am too willing to vote on thoughts etc.

Surely you can understand how that's frustrating.
I can, and if you're a townie the treatment of you in this game has been nothing frustrating. But surely you can understand why you have to be looked at the way we have been looking at you. We've got at least 4 bad guys to catch in a 10 person game. The whole game has seen one vocal townie after another get lynched and it became apparent days ago that we've had a number of townies at each other's throats all game long. There's a small handful of players who provided absolutely no content during all of this time, and your predecessors are a part of this group. As a bad guy subbing in late to the game, it is reasonable for us to speculate that you would want to jump into the activity right away to distance yourself from the Lurker Scum label.
I understand that it is also reasonable for you as a townie to want to dive in and help us figure things out. It's been said before, but you practically can't win here. I understand your frustration if it is genuine, but at this stage in the game I can't approach you any differently than this.
Can't you?

Why can't chaindeath or Nerolunar be baddie?

Dom wrote:
Nerolunar wrote:Just when we thought we could lock down some variables. What do we do? If we get to live another day Im inclined to believe Elohcin is still a valid lynch option, if just to decrease the number of cops.
What else would be the goal?

There's some emotion in here. Tell me about it chums.

Prisoner 509378

Things Mongoose, Draconus, and Dom said about Epignosis:

Spoiler: show

Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I am sensing real desperation in Scotty's posts though, and it's making me reconsider. Dom or Epi would be my next choice.
Is there a reason Dom is your favored low-content lynch over Elohcin or someone else?
I believe what Epi says about her, but then I also don't trust Epi. So I don't know. Call it gut.
This is some bullshit if I've ever read it.

Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I am sensing real desperation in Scotty's posts though, and it's making me reconsider. Dom or Epi would be my next choice.
Is there a reason Dom is your favored low-content lynch over Elohcin or someone else?
I believe what Epi says about her, but then I also don't trust Epi. So I don't know. Call it gut.
This is some bullshit if I've ever read it.
Am I not allowed to suspect you?
No. You are.

Your reasons are just nonsensical. For example, you don't trust Epi, but trust him enough to leave Elo alone.

For example, you call me a lurker, but I have offered more than Elo. For example, my post count is currently 38. Over two game days, that's not half bad, especially replacing in on Day 7. I read back on the Day 2 lynch as asked, and if I'm not mistaken, offered some thoughts on those proceedings.

So your position doesn't make sense.

Dom wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Tinfoil theory that I want see come to fruition: the Prisoner is an insider working foe the cops. His role in this game was to take the families down from the inside. Like Leo. He has been steering us all in the wrong direction since he showed up. Like Leo.
I've thought a little about how awesome it would be if I was a convincted serial killer and y'all paroled me.
It's happened before. Ask S~V~S.
lol

Dom wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Dom wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:You could start by sharing your perceived team of four cops.
Chaindeath
Nerolunar
Elo?
Soneji?
What makes you feel inclined to leave Epignosis out?
I don't fully understand why people think he is bad.

Epignosis has an absolute crapload of posts and none of them made a direct comment to or about Epi until that very last quote (Day 10) in which Dom brushed off the cases against Epi. That's pretty surprising.

Prisoner 509378

Things Mongoose, Draconus, and Dom said about Serge and Elohcin:

Spoiler: show

Basically sweet f*** all. That one post is barely even relevant. Again, tell me your immediate feelings.

Prisoner 509378

Soneji wrote:Epignosis

Dom's flip should seal it for those who weren't already convinced.

Why?

Prisoner 509378

Things Mongoose, Draconus, and Dom said about chaindeath:

Spoiler: show

Dom wrote:
chaindeath wrote:That was thoroughly not useful...
why

Dom wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:Dom, gun to head read on chaindeath GO
Bad

Dom wrote:I think he's bad based on other people's opinions and his most recent posts were more dismissive than anything else.

Dom wrote:not sure if i should vote for scotty or chaindeath

Dom wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:You could start by sharing your perceived team of four cops.
Chaindeath
Nerolunar
Elo?
Soneji?

Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I don't like Dom's refusal to accept that he's a valid suspect. I also don't like his exasperation in the face of being lynched, strangely. He just got here. I don't think a townie who just showed up this late in a game would be as passionate about being lynched as he's been.

God this is the most bullshit case I've ever given but somehow I believe it.
So first I don't care enough about being lynched and now I cared too much?
When did I ever imply the former point?
Maybe you didn't, but either you or Prisoner have.
And, frankly, it's exhausting to replace into a huge game and almost immediately take heat for reasons you don't understand that often contradict each other. I've been told I care too much and too little about being lynched. I've been told that I don't have enough thoughts and that I am too willing to vote on thoughts etc.

Surely you can understand how that's frustrating.
I can, and if you're a townie the treatment of you in this game has been nothing frustrating. But surely you can understand why you have to be looked at the way we have been looking at you. We've got at least 4 bad guys to catch in a 10 person game. The whole game has seen one vocal townie after another get lynched and it became apparent days ago that we've had a number of townies at each other's throats all game long. There's a small handful of players who provided absolutely no content during all of this time, and your predecessors are a part of this group. As a bad guy subbing in late to the game, it is reasonable for us to speculate that you would want to jump into the activity right away to distance yourself from the Lurker Scum label.
I understand that it is also reasonable for you as a townie to want to dive in and help us figure things out. It's been said before, but you practically can't win here. I understand your frustration if it is genuine, but at this stage in the game I can't approach you any differently than this.
Can't you?

Why can't chaindeath or Nerolunar be baddie?

It is our collective charge to determine if the cops have been attempting to distance themselves from chaindeath or just take advantage of his being easy lynch bait. I won't share my perspective yet. Y'all go first.

Prisoner 509378

Hey cops, you're screwed.

Prisoner 509378

Well, I guess you're not dead. I keep equating arrested with dead. :P

Prisoner 509378

*explodes into action*

RIP S~V~S by the way, you gave a wonderful effort in this game.

Prisoner 509378

You see, there I was feeling all demoralized and done when it seemed Dom was town.

Prisoner 509378

He meant a literal different page of the thread, as a joke. :P

I'm on 100 ppp though so I don't see it that way.

Prisoner 509378

The only people I won't vote for are Sloonei and S~V~S. If you two can come to an agreement, I'm with you all the way.

Prisoner 509378

Sloonei wrote:What do you think caused Dom to not be lynched?

Both of the dead stool pidgeons are decent seemer candidates, so perhaps he's one of those. Or maybe he's a don and TH is not. I really don't know.

Prisoner 509378

If y'all talk it over however and decide you want Epi to be lynched, I will not fight it.

Prisoner 509378

Sloonei wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:Note: Everyone who agrees that both Nero and Eloh are cops should probably not lynch Eloh. Epi's prior suggestion that they're prioritizing stronger cop roles for survival is probably applicable here. If Nero wants to do it, I don't. She's probably a cop, but one of the less potent cops. You may disagree, and I've been wrong about everything barring a seemer moral victory, so tell me whatcha think.
Thoughts on Epi?

I'm sure it'll annoy you, but you seem to be in a tunnel. I was fully on board before, but the failed Dom lynch dismantles every construct of the game I had developed. If Dom is town then that leaves a unique combination in the cop team. The most likely one among those I hadn't favored before would seem to be Nero/chaindeath, and putting them together makes it harder to include Epignosis (but not impossible).

It could be Epi/Nero though. Or Epi/Soneji. Or Dom/TH could be cops and it's all been screwed from the beginning.

I dunno.

The simplest remaining explanation would be Nero, chaindeath, Soneji, Elohcin in my opinion. Epi isn't required by the laws of physics to be a cop.

Prisoner 509378

Note: Everyone who agrees that both Nero and Eloh are cops should probably not lynch Eloh. Epi's prior suggestion that they're prioritizing stronger cop roles for survival is probably applicable here. If Nero wants to do it, I don't. She's probably a cop, but one of the less potent cops. You may disagree, and I've been wrong about everything barring a seemer moral victory, so tell me whatcha think.

Prisoner 509378

Nobody is easier lynch bait than her if she's town.

Prisoner 509378

I don't know what TH might be talking about re: Dom but sure whatever. My vote is wherever the pitchforks want it.

Prisoner 509378

I could see an Epi, Nero, chain, Eloh team too. At this point it's not hard to see the entire Epi/Nero exchange of Day 10 as cooked both ways.

Prisoner 509378

No. I was wrong.

Prisoner 509378

I agree with S~V~S about Nero. Soneji has been more outwardly townish, but it's hard to see what cop team is left if he's town. It'd be worth examining how good of team mates Epi and Soneji would be.

I'm not doing it.

Prisoner 509378

I rolled a 10-sided dice and it said I'm scum. No methods are working here.

Prisoner 509378

You're right. Can't argue with that.

Prisoner 509378

It would appear the prisoners have been screwing the pooch lately.

Prisoner 509378

If there is a next phase.

Prisoner 509378

Sloonei wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:I wrote a 10 page book report on Nero and chaindeath. If I was wrong I was wrong, but not for lack of trying.

It might also be worth shedding the notion that Epi and Nero would be unlikely team mates. It might also be worth shedding the notion that Epi and Soneji would be unlikely team mates. If you or anyone else knows a better way to solve the game then be my freaking guest.
I have not read your report yet. For brevity's sake, what were your results?

They could be team mates. I still decided it was less likely than the team I produced at the end (Epi, Dom, Eloh, chaindeath). But we're here and adjustments are called for.

I'll be stepping back next phase. Y'all lead, I'll follow. My vote is yours.

Prisoner 509378

I wrote a 10 page book report on Nero and chaindeath. If I was wrong I was wrong, but not for lack of trying.

It might also be worth shedding the notion that Epi and Nero would be unlikely team mates. It might also be worth shedding the notion that Epi and Soneji would be unlikely team mates. If you or anyone else knows a better way to solve the game then be my freaking guest.

Prisoner 509378

I reiterate that if the cops had or have a secret lynch stop, this game was over days ago.

Prisoner 509378

Sloonei wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:Nero, Soneji, Elohcin, chaindeath
No. Dom is still bad.

There are two Dons. Why can't they be Dom and TH?

Prisoner 509378

I'm not your enemy.

Prisoner 509378

Nero, Soneji, Elohcin, chaindeath

Prisoner 509378

Worst game ever.

Prisoner 509378

Sloonei wrote:I wish our votes were on Epi right now, but I'm perfectly happy with the state of things. At least as much as I can be on Day 10 when we've only lynched 1 or 2 baddies. But Dom is a good lynch. Epi will be a good lynch tomorrow. Then I'm not sure what. Elo or chaindeath methinks.

I guess I'm good with it too. I'd feel more comfortable if it didn't develop so painlessly, but I guess people on both sides are kind of stuck doing it that way at this point.

The only thing that matters right now is Dom's flip. I hope to death that it's a cop flip.

Prisoner 509378

S~V~S wrote:Well the way myu mind works is that if I offer an argument,and i am refuted rather than understood or considered, I withdraw. Something tells me you have run into this before.

Maybe not this exact problem, but similar ones I think. A lot of time I have exerted a sort of controlling influence without trying to, or at least given that impression, and that has rubbed people the wrong way before. I try to play with leadership, I think it's a strength of mine as a Mafia player -- but not everyone wants to deal with that behavior and I can understand. I apologize if I've been a frustrating presence. If you feel I'm not respecting your perspective, then you have every right to gripe about it. I hope I can convey believably that I do value your input and everyone's input, because it really is the truth.

Prisoner 509378

S~V~S wrote:It does not feel that way.When i say something dissenting, it feels like you are trying to refute me rather than understand me.

That's how my mind works. I work to understand through refutation. That doesn't mean I am unwilling to budge. That means I see logic points in front of me, and I am trying to work them out one at a time, piece by piece. There are moments when I make a refutation and then someone shows me that my thinking is misguided or straight up illogical. I can't just look at one post and have that be that, I need to have a conversation.

When I throw a refutation out there, my intent is never "you're wrong and this is what's right." I'm wrong way too often to do that.

My intent is "this is what gives me pause about your perspective, maybe you have something to lessen that concern in your mindset, please throw it at me."

Prisoner 509378

Again, I am communicating points. My tone might sound severe or hardheaded, but that's just the way I talk. I am always ready to hear dissenting perspectives. I need them, frankly. I can't guarantee I'll agree, but I value the conversation.

Prisoner 509378

Epignosis wrote:Let's see.

chaindeath

The problems with Epi's "test" of Nerolunar are pretty much exactly as Nero described them himself. When Epi pulled this I literally rolled my eyes. There's been a concerted effort at vote consolidation, and it has been amped up in this phase especially (Sloonei pushed it) given the likelihood that the cops are only outnumbered by one townie. Epignosis has hardly even acknowledged that, he even implied he might refuse to take part when Sloonei originally said it -- that has the very real possibility of losing the game on its own power if Epi is town, and there's no way he's ignorant to that. To ignore the most important reason why Nero's vote would remain on Dom is to ignore common sense. I don't think Epi is unaware of that, and that's the problem. He knows, and he still expects Nero to just hop over to chaindeath and split the wagons, going against his own stated reason for joining the Dom wagon (in concert with his agreement that Dom is a suspect).

Nero had no way of passing that test.

Prisoner 509378

Epi, why didn't you expend an ounce of energy on the Nero/chain dynamic until you were mechanically forced to do so?

Prisoner 509378

And if Epi does think Dom is a cop, then what sense does it make to accuse Nero of meekly avoiding bussing chaindeath if he'd just be bussing Dom instead?

None of this adds up.

Prisoner 509378

Let's follow the logic, Epignosis.

Your claim: Nerolunar and chaindeath are trying to get through the "home stretch" intact to win the game, which is why Nero is holding his vote on Dom.

Implication: This can only make sense if Dom is town.

External fact: Epignosis has been inclined to read Elohcin as town.

External fact: From Epignosis's perspective, he is also town (hypothetically speaking, as he must convey himself here).

Implication: If his accusation of Nero is valid, then that means Epignosis, Elohcin, and Dom are all town.

Implication: Those three being town leaves only the following three to be cops: Soneji, chaindeath, Nerolunar -- unless a new name is incorporated from the trusted group (S~V~S, Sloonei, Turnip Head, Prisoner).

External fact: Before choosing Turnip Head, Epi asked me incredulously if Soneji is suddenly one of the trusted people.

Implication: He didn't realize his goof, and then he had to fill the gap with someone from the trusted group. Epignosis chose Turnip Head.

External fact: Epignosis had made no mention prior of any meaningful suspicion of Turnip Head being a cop. It only happened just then.

Implication: He made it up and does not believe it.

Implication: He's lying about his read on Turnip Head.

Implication: He's lying about the mindset that brough him to that read on Turnip Head (derived from the accusation against Nero).

Implication: He doesn't believe in his own accusation of Nero.

Implication: He's a cop.

Prisoner 509378

Epignosis wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:Epi's play in this phase has been suspicious enough that I'd feel just as comfortable lynching him. He put Nero in a lose-lose position, made an accusation that logically cannot even work with his claimed "reads", and then started talking nonsense when called out for it.
Lose-lose situations. You like those.

"If you are good and Eloh is good and Dom is good, who is the cop team?"

Was the movie any good?

You put yourself in that situation, I only asked you how it's possible. Because it's not, unless you pull something out of left field that you've never pushed prior (Turnip Head as a cop).

The movie (Hail Caesar) was alright. Weird, but alright.

Prisoner 509378

Epi's play in this phase has been suspicious enough that I'd feel just as comfortable lynching him. He put Nero in a lose-lose position, made an accusation that logically cannot even work with his claimed "reads", and then started talking nonsense when called out for it.

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