The Syndicate

Golf

Izett Cruelsinger wrote:
Fane Winebattle wrote:Does anyone have a read on Izett? She has struck me as being very blendy all game. If we really think we need a second choice, I wouldn't be opposed to her.

You should be opposed to voting me as a second choice. We've already lynched enough civs.

I'm all for having a 2nd choice lined up, but not if it means grasping at straws - that doesn't seem like a wise thing to do. If we don't have something solid, I don't want to go on just tiny pings - that would make it too much like a day 1 vote... and those don't always go well. If you know what I mean.

I actually agree with you. I originally said thta I didn't think we need a second choice, since Carmen has likely run out of tricks and I am not sure about anyone else, but Miyuki has been insistent, so I thought I would explore a few people. I didn't realize you were a replacement either. I don't want to lynch you, I want to lynch Carmen.

Golf

Miyuki Lovelymoth wrote: Fane, you didn't seem very convinced about Queran until the last minute before voting time, but that was all I noticed about you during the read through.

This is more or less true, although I wouldn't say the very last minute. After Gobnait was revealed to be the truth checker I was pretty sold on him. I think Queran did an amazing job of selling his innocence and I went back and forth on him a bunch of times. If I recall, I did voice some suspicions of him early on, but he was so passionate that I remained unsure for a long time.

Re Lyel: I was pretty suspicious of his first incarnation, but his replacement hasn't pinged me at all. It could just be a more competent liar, or my initial suspicions could have been off the mark.

Golf

Does anyone have a read on Izett? She has struck me as being very blendy all game. If we really think we need a second choice, I wouldn't be opposed to her.

Golf

Eurolyvn Blissfulone wrote:I stilldo not trust Fane, I felt a bit like he was attempting to get on my good side when he asked for my input specifically the other night, saying he liked the things I had been saying. Given that I have expressed my distrust of Fane since Fane version 1.0's day 1 vote mistake, it makes me wary of him.

Let's just say that I was not acting of my own free will when I mentioned you, Eurolyn. I think if you'll look through my posts for that day and night period, the cause will become clear.

I am down with a silent Carmen lynch. I don't really have a second choice yet, nor do I think we really need one.

Golf

I want to congratulate Queran on a blazingly spirited baddie game. He lied with such aplomb that I was convinced for a little while. That being said, I am also very glad he is dead.

Golf

Shand, what are you doing? Even if he's telling the truth (which he assuredly isn't. There's no *secrets* next to Rumpy's role) what do we have to gain by dealing with him? Leaving him alive is the single most dangerous thing any of us could do. He's just trying to fool you.

Golf

Miyuki Lovelymoth wrote: I still think we should skip speaking in the day. This power of Rump's is over-powering, and they have been steamrolling us so far.

Agreed. There's nothing to talk about at this point anyway, since Queran outed himself.

Golf

Oh, and I'm vote for Sprite. Orangesprite! Yum!

Golf

This is very upsetting. We lose another three player, plus at least one more tonight without being able to lynch Queran (who has now tipped his hand that he is definitely bad.) It looks bleak for us indeed.

Golf

Queran, you were complaining about not having enough time to defend yourself, and now you are spending all your time dreaming up elaborate (and in my view unworkable) code systems and election procedures for a codemaster instead of using that time to defend yourself, which is what you claimed you wanted. It looks to me like you are just trying to be distracting and confusing, which is a classic baddie tactic. I have seen it employed to great effect by my very clever friends Bud and Lou.

linki: I vote for silence

Golf

Queran Gloomsoul wrote:
Bronwyn Mightyfeet wrote:But if we decide the code at night Rumpel can just use one of the words we decide on since he picks the word at night, unless you had something else in mind.

Oh, I just thought of something. Rumpel has to pick a word. What if we substitute smilie faces for some of the more common words we want to use like civvs, baddies, vote, suspicion, etc.
If nobody knows the code until the very end of the night Rumple will not be able to send in a PM. If we elected a codemaster, whose responsibility it was was to post a link to the code Every night at the end of the night, we would virtually eliminate Rumple from the equation.

"Using anagrams for common words that shift every night."

"Signu granamas ofr conmom dsorw hatt shtfi verye ginth" - Night 1

"gisun anamargs rof moncom sword ahtt fitsh revey thign" - Night 2

THAT is clever.

What if the codemaster is on Rumpy's team though? My friends Stan and Ollie are more clever than that.

Golf

Shand Azureye wrote:Queran, all suspicions against you aside (strong as they are), considering that Rumpel has been manipulating lynches with impunity, how can you call what the town has decided unfair? Instead of admonishing the town for deciding not to talk during the day, wouldn't it be better if you quell some of the suspicions now:

This.

I would rather we make an honest determination of who we think is bad and see it through, even if it turns out we are mistaken, than keep allowing Rumpy to lynch whomever he likes. So says Fane Winebattle, oldest and wisest of the Dwarves.

Golf

Ameerah Frolicstag wrote:Another thought--Gobnait was the Princess and the Pea, meaning he was the lie detector. And he was pretty vehement that Queran was bad. I don't think we should discount that.

I still do not feel good about Carmen and do not feel she is civvie, but knowing who Gobnait was, I think we should consider his posts carefully.

That is very well noticed, Ameerah. I agree that given Gob's role and how things turned out, it doesn't look good for Queran. It could be an elaborate frame job, but so could Carmen, so I would really be up for lynching either of them. I just think we need to pick one and go with it.

Where is Eurolyn? I would like to hear her opinion since I think she made some good comments earlier.

Golf

We are doing terribly so far, so I think a change of tactics is indeed in order. Thanks to Shand for his wise words about only speaking at night. I think we should definitely do that.

I know that many disagree, but I also think it is imperative that we try to be as unanimous as possible for the lynch votes to lessen the odds of stealing. Let's figure out who we want to lynch TONIGHT and all stick with it. Do people think the Gobnait lynch implicates Queran strongly? I am not wholly convinced of that, but want to hear what others have to say. Diedre makes an interesting observation about Carmen being possible unlynchable, but my gut tells me that this was still a Rumpy protection. He would only have needed to move four votes. So I would be good for another shot at Carmen if people agree. Most important, though, is that we work together on this and not let the baddies sow confusion and doubt so that we have scattered votes all over the place.

BTW, I voted Grimm's because, as others have said, they are dark, but also because of the sheer absurdity and lack of moralizing in so many of them,like the one about anthropomorphic sausages.

Golf

Izett Cruelsinger wrote: What is it that made you lean the opposite of me after reading all the Gob/Queran discussion?

Queran was more passionate in his case, and I think his facts are stronger. Gob's case felt almost halfhearted and I didn't find it all that convincing. I am by no means sure about either of them, but right now I tend to trust Queran slightly more.

Also, Diedre has a lovely avatar.

Golf

I have to say, I'm pretty suspicious of the people splitting the vote between Queran and Gobnait. This basically guarantees that Rumpy can select whichever one is not on his team for elimination. I think Bronwyn was the wise person this time, to be the first to stay out of that feud.

Golf

Izett Cruelsinger wrote:I am not feeling quite as good about Queran as I was, and I'm feeling slightly better about Gob than I was.

That's interesting, because I feel the opposite.

Also, I have to say I like new Lyel a lot better than old Lyel. He seems more fun (still don't wholly trust him though)

Golf

I sympathize with Izett's concerns of a bandwagon, but given the nature of Rumpy's power I think splitting the vote basically lets him control every lynch.

I am voting for Carmen based on her inconsistency, shiftiness, backtracking, retreading and being protected so much.

Golf

I was rereading Rhinfrew, the wise Djinn, and noticed that he is about the only one defending Carmen. What does this tell us about him?

1. If Carmen is bad and he is also bad, this would out him. Diagnosis: improbable
2. If Carmen is bad and he is good, it could be an honest mistake. Diagnosis: Likely
3. If Carmen is good and he is bad, it could be a way for him to gain credibility. Diagnosis: Likely
4. If Carmen is good and he is good, it could be either a good read or he could have inside info. Diagnosis: Moderately likely.

From this, I think that if Carmen flips bad, it is probable that Rhinfrew is good, since it would be very reckless of him to vocally defend someone who is obviously about to be lynched if he were on her team. I have been somewhat skeptical of the Noble Genie due to his irreverent tone, but I think the results of today's lynch will be telling.

Golf

Thank you for that, Gobnait. Your effort enriches us all. At this point, you both make very convincing and sincere cases to the point that I'm inclined to vote for neither of you and seek baddies elsewhere, because a wrong choice between the two of you would result in the loss of a very valuable civ.

Golf

Miyuki Lovelymoth wrote:
Grutfud Orangesprite wrote:
Miyuki Lovelymoth wrote:I'm going to try not to quote today, since we don't know if magic words count when used in quotes, but I will say this to Carmen. Thank you, I do understand what you're saying about not wanting to reveal who you are in rl. But I have to say, a simple 'I did not role hint' would have been nice. And I read back, you had ample opportunity to say that at some point.

This is not good.
Hi. can you expand a little on what you are getting at with Carmen? Are you suggesting you have reason to believe she is not who she says claimed/didn't claim she is? And, from my read, it didn't appear she was claiming Cinderella at all if that is what you were thinking. Was it?
If you just recently had to read the entire thread, then I will cut you some slack there. Are you one of the replacements?

If not, I wonder how you missed all the talk on Carmen. Starting with Bronwyn and someone else (forgot who) pointing out that she made a quick catch on day 1, regarding someone who voted for someone not at the correct table, but then acted like she wasn't involved in the game at all, couldn't keep up, etc. It was pointed out because most everyone was still having trouble just remembering all the names, let alone which table to vote for.

However, she managed to continue sounding sufficiently confused during the next day and night, enough to create doubt in a few players. At least 2 of us commented that she sounded like she could be new. I noticed what could have been role hints, not claims, and posted as much as I could about them, to get attention to it and get feedback from other players. I don't want to lynch someone who may be new, and trying to be found by her prince, but at the same time, I don't want to allow a baddie to hoodwink anyone.

She survived 2 lynches, and although, a few people made posts about it being a deflection of some kind, it could very easily have been Rumpel's team behind that.

Now, her posts suddenly sound like a different person.

This pretty much sums up my feelings on Carmen as well. The lynch dodging evidence is not really useful, in my opinion, since Rumpy would switch the lynch whenever he got the chance regardless of whether the person was civ or bad, but the other behavioral points strike me as very odd.

You are very kind, Miyuki, to cut Grutfud 2 some slack.

Golf

Thanks for that imense post, Queran. You have been most helpful. I will go through it and give it some time to sink in before voting, for sure.

Golf

Laine Crystalsteam wrote:RIP Etain and Bac

With regards to my favourite character, I don't really have one. I'd have to say either Red Riding Hood or Rapunzel. The former because I like her red cloak and the latter because of Tangled. Sorry.

Never apologize, Laine. Your contributions are highly valued.

Carmen, I think posting length has more to do with personal style than mafia affiliation.

Golf

Dallon Redwarlock wrote:Thank Jupiter! I've spent ages thinking which character I like the most. Truth be told I don't have one and I know so few.

Very wisely chosen, Dallon.

Golf

About the only nice thing I can say about Carmen is that she has nice wings.

Golf

That story is a good choice, Ameerah.

Golf

Welcome back Grutfud! Your powers of napping are impressive. Any reason why we shouldn't lynch you?

Golf

Carmen, I don't trust you a bit, but your lightheartedness and fun-loving spirit does you credit.

Golf

Izett Cruelsinger wrote:RIPIYWG Etain and Bac. I have no reasons to suspect either of you were bad, in fact I was leaning quite the opposite on you both, so I'll just say RIP.

I voted story, and one of my favorites was Sleeping Beauty. I grew up listening to it on a record, and the sound effects when she pricked her finger on the needle of the spinning wheel were absolutely terrifying to little kid me. Ever since I've had a love of scary movies!

The Disney Sleeping Beauty has Tchaikovsky, so that is nice. You are such a cute Leprechaun!

Golf

Welcome Anchorette Mk. II. It is nice to have you here.

Golf

My favorite Grimm's story is tough to choose because there are so many great ones, but I am going to go with Gambling Hans (or Hansel, in this translation.) In which Hans tricks Death into climbing up into a tree from which he can never get down, owing to a miraculously farsighted wish.
http://classiclit.about.com/library/bl- ... hansel.htm

Golf

Queran Gloomsoul wrote:EBWOP: Welcome Lyle 2, I wish Lyle 1 all the best <3

Yes, welcome Lyel 2. I will suspend my accusations of you until you have had a chance to get caught up and defend yourself a bit.

Golf

Bronwyn Mightyfeet wrote:
Fane Winebattle wrote:
Laine Crystalsteam wrote:Why do you find him shifty?
Because I am a good judge of character, I assume.
But is there something he's said or done to make you feel this way?

It's really just a hunch based on the tone of his posts. He started out by excusing his lack of participation due to illness, and then that changed to external events (which again, I don't think he is making up.) I just think real life problems may have coincided with a general need for the baddies to stay hidden while they disract us with lynch switches.

Golf

Laine Crystalsteam wrote:Why do you find him shifty?

Because I am a good judge of character, I assume.

Golf

To be clear, I never meant to insinuate that Lyel would be making up personal tragedy to score points in the game. I obviously do not believe that to be the case. I still find him shifty though
>.>
<.<

Golf

Dallon Redwarlock wrote:
Queran Gloomsoul wrote:I plan to, yeah.
You've been pretty sure about him all along. Not convinced personally. I think the arguments you have had are possibly, possibly clouding your judgement. having said that I may reread him to be sure.

I just reread him as well, and honestly nothing sticks out to me. He has been consistent and thoughtful and hasn't pulled any of the typical baddie tricks I'm used to seeing, such as deflecting attention or creating distractions. Re reading Queran left me a bit puzzled as well. Apart from his voting record, there seems, upon reflection, to be not much meat there, although I did notice a tendency to vote for lynches without much elaboration on why.

I'm not sure I'm ready to vote for either of them at this point, but we have a long time until the next lynch vote, so hopefully something will emerge to make me feel more sure.

Golf

Queran Gloomsoul wrote: Linki @ Fane -

To be perfectly honest, I was afraid I might have slipped into tunnel vision, so I decided to seek out new suspects.

Are you campaigning for a Gobnait lynch tomorrow, then?

Golf

Queran, you seem pretty convinced that Gobnait is bad. In that case, I'm wondering why you haven't been voting for him in the last couple of lynch polls or trying to convince others to do so?

Golf

Gobnait Gingeruite wrote: What are people's thoughts on leading lynch candidates for tomorrow? I know Carmen has still been getting some attention, but who else do people think is on the chopping block, as it were.

Oh! And as a side note for the folks keeping tally at home, I believe Queran has now voted for 5 straight civs. 4 are confirmed and then 1 vote for me. Just sayin'.

I would definitely be up for a Queran vote tomorrow. I am hesitant to vote Carmen, because I worry it is another baddie trick, since she was protected from a previous lynch, to make her look worse than she is.

Golf

Gobnait Gingeruite wrote:For the other three, do you have anything besides their quietness? I'm worried about lynching someone for quietness now; as the Finnian lynch showed us, that can be a mistake.

Not very much to be honest, it's more of a feeling based on their tone, but I find the fact that Dallon jumped into the thread immediately after his name was mentioned a little suspect, considering his lengthy absence before that.

Lyel's excuses have shifted over time, lacking a little in consistency (Although I hate to be too hard on him given how hard a time he seems to be having in RL.)

Grutfud has basically been MIA, missing votes and not saying anything, so he is the one I suspect least of the three right now, although I do think a good strategy for the baddies would be to switch lynches while remaining very quiet in order to throw suspicion on others.

Golf

Just because the magic word was in the night poll once, that doesn't mean that it must be every night. Rumpy's role clearly states that he gets to choose the word.

Golf

Also, I voted story because you can have a great story without great characters (especially a short one) but it is hard to have great characters without anything interesting for them to do.

Golf

RIP Finnian. So our vote deductions have been incredibly horrible so far. I think we need to go in an entirely different direction. The baddies are toying with us by sowing suspicion on the people they are protecting. Reading the thread, the following people still strike me as acting strange and I would like to see them discussed over the night and following day period.

Queran: A lot of people were looking at him early on, but the suspicion sort of dried up. I still think he seems shifty.
Lyel: I know he's been dealing with personal issues, but that doesn't automatically make him good and he hasn't really said anything.
Dallon and Grutfud, both of whom have been very quiet.

I tend to trust Bac, Bronwyn and Etain. Gobnait has been been very helpful, but has also led us down some wrong paths, so I think he needs to be watched.

Golf

Miyuki Lovelymoth wrote:I believe Izett also mentioned something ping worthy in regards to the genie, but I will search for it later. It is necessary to consider everything Fane v2, as it may catch a baddie later, or it may reveal the genie has the towns best interests in mind.

I agree and I admit that the genie's general tone has struck me as a bit suspicious. Not ready to convict him yet, though.

Golf

I don't know. Would a baddie offer the sole dissenting vote in a unanimous lynch poll? Seems like an awful risky move for someone who shouldn't want to draw attention to himself, doesn't it?

Golf

Gobnait Gingeruite wrote:
Fane Winebattle wrote:I'm pretty convinced of Finnian's guilt, an given Rumpy's ability, I think it would be foolish to spread the vote out.

*votes finnian*
Rumpelstiltskin's ability isn't in play, Fane. There was no night after yesterday.

It's frustrating that so many players are paying so little attention.

Sorry. I was called in as a replacement yesterday and it's tough playing catch up in a game this complicated. I will strive to do better in the future.

Golf

I'm pretty convinced of Finnian's guilt, an given Rumpy's ability, I think it would be foolish to spread the vote out.

*votes finnian*

Golf

Finnian Metalfox wrote:I am allowed to think what I want.

Nope.

Golf

I'm really reading Etain as Civ as well. Finnian's No Us really just incriminate him further.

Golf

Okay, I am caught up. My main observations at this point are that both Carmen and Finnian were saved from being lynched, which obviously makes them look bad. Of course, t is possible they are being framed, but they both strike me as rather suspicious, so I would be happy to try to lynch either of them. I am leaning towards Finnian, because Rumpy had to redirect a lot more votes to save him than he did with Carmen.

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