The Syndicate

Alizon Device wrote:Also, the "mama bear" excuse means you gun for people actively participating. As someone who puts time into games I sign up for or replace into, that's discouraging.

Linki~ I never said they bandwagoned me personally. I think it's been going on all game. And for the third time, I specifically called out Anne Whittle. You're fine defending people who don't play, and you ignore what an active player has said to you twice now.

What did I ignore? And you can try to turn the tables all you want; I still think, and all my Mafia experience tells me, that my personal thoughts aside, gunning for low posters when there is only one bad team, is the primary strategy of baddie teams. When you are the only bad team, you can either try lynching civvies, or lynching low posters.

And I Momma Bear pretty much anyone I think is being unfairly targeted. Which in this instance is low posters.

I think rather than being distracted, we need to think about what Anne R is saying. It is plausible.

I apparently missed the humour there.

Did you ever say who the blendy baddies were that bandwagoned you? I seem to have missed it if you did.

I must admit that part of my feeling about Anne Whittle also hinge upon her being a low poster, and my Momma Instincts are kicking in for the low posters since I feel attacking low posters is the primary resort of baddies everywhere. So I go all Momma Bear when people start making cases primarily predicated on low posting. It is what it is.

And yeah, I was pretty sure you & Malin have been bad for like, well, forever, but the rezzing Mary remark put it over the top for me. I can not see any plausible civ explanation for that.

Merga Bien: Totally a student.

Alizon Device: Totally a Deatheater

Sarah Good: At first, her making the votes but not talking pinged me somewhat, but I can think of a few players who do play that way, and nothing she has said has set off alarms (now that she is talking more). She voted for Mary early-ish on Day 1. Student or teacher, IMO, not likely a Deatheater.

Katharina Henot: Passionate and although I don't always agree with her votes, lol, or her suspicions, I doubt she is a Deatheater either.

Märet Jonsdotter: I waffle here, she seems to be on the same wavelength as me much of the time, but occasionally she will say something that makes me go, "Hmmmm". I don't see her as a Deatheater, though.

Malin Matsdotter: Is in the kitchen Eating Death as we speak

Alice Nutter: I wish she would say more topically. I can't get a read on her since she mainly makes joke posts.

Anne Redferne: Stirs the pot a lot, which is good. Does not add her own seasoning, which is less good.

Jane Southworth: I like Jane. I hope shes a civvie. I have no reason to think she is not.

Karin Svensdotter: Is talking more, yay. Still blendy. Which does not =/= bad, but I can see why people I trust were suspicious of her.

Anne Whittle: I was troubled that I had no real opinion of her, so I reread her, and don't see anything bad there. I especially liked this post:

Anne Whittle wrote:I think I will be loking at Alizon for this next lynch.
She was a big pusher of lynching low posters.
She defended Mary and was actually saying she would come up teacher.
She has been using twisted logic to defend her points with healthy doses of snarkabilly.
When Merga was trying to keep focus on Mary and Entjen she was trying to geit on Jonsdotter.
Her vote for Maret came across as without reasoning. even after re-reading I see no reasoning.

There is more but I suggest you read her posts yourself to form your own opinion.

So I think teacher or student, but not Deatheater. And fwiw, I doubt Teachers are a threat to students.

Well, you sound like you think that it is, not that you think it *might* be. So what is your advice? It has occurred to me that there might be a "two lynches in a row" mechanic in place, it could account for Alizon/Malin seeming to be alternating their thread presence. Or that could just be a coincidence.

Should the rest of us vote for Malin, is that your counsel?

Alizon Device wrote:I plan on bringing Mary Eastley back. What say you?

Really?

Nah, you're not a baddie

*Votes*

Alizon Device wrote:

Merga Bien wrote:I would be most happy with an Alizon lynch, she is twisting like a pretzel and evading like a shadow.

AWESOME



[/thread]

Jane Southworth wrote:

A Person wrote:

Day 7

No one has been lynched.

Lots of discussion tonight, we have some feisty witches in here. I keep flip flopping on Alizon. She is someone I plan on rereading soon, especially re: her connection to Malin and whether or not that connection exists. I see a way that they could both be civs but I have to see if it's something I think is likely. I do think at least one of them is bad, Malin is the one that I've been more convinced of so far. I'm glad Karin has joined us, I look forward to hearing her thoughts.

Merga I see what you're saying now about Alizon's vote for you and I agree her reason for voting you that day was horribly thought out. But I think the mafia was content that day with the Margaret Pearson lynch, why would Alizon (a Death eater in this scenario) try to swing the lynch your way instead, and with such a lame reason that she likely wasn't going to get any support behind it, and you couldn't be lynched anyway? That's the problem I see with those events, I don't see the baddie benefit for Alizon's actions, but like I said I need to reread her. But I agree that in general that is the kind of behavior we need to be watching out for. It would be easy for the mafia to control the lynch if we don't stick together. Hopefully with more discussion like we've had tonight, we'll be able to reach a consensus together.

I dunno, maybe she did not want to vote for Margaret P (Mary did not vote for her either, and voted after Alizon did). You know, "I knew she was not bad ". We've all done it as baddies, yes? It was a throwaway vote for a horrendous reason, and her reaction to suspicion has been evasion and anger; calling US out for our gameplay for suspectiong her for reasons she thinks suck, etc.

I would be most happy with an Alizon lynch, she is twisting like a pretzel and evading like a shadow. But I also think Malin is bad.

Linki w/hosts, oh wow. Bye ladies. I hope a civvie got the stone.

Which has nothing to do with your reason for making the vote you did.

And you are saying one blendy baddie, Anne W, band wagoned you? You are making sweeping generalizations without backing them up.

And Edit; it was also not that the vote was for *me*. My point about 2 votes maybe killing me was not about *me* it was about how easy it is to manipulate spread lynches. To be quite honest, had someone made that same vote for YOU, or anyone else, with that reasoning, I would have thought them bad. That it was for someone you specifically must have known had a penalty levied on them was also pingalicious, but the main point for me was that you voted me for wanting to read the words of a dead civvie whole role could have gotten oblique info. No matter WHO made that vote, and no matter for WHOM they made it, I would have voted for them for making it.

It seemed an attempt on your part to lay down the law, as it were.

But again, looking forward to hearing who the blendy baddies were that bandwagoned you and Malin.

My question to you, Alizon, was, which of the 8 Malin voters do you consider to be blendy baddies? Or are you not talking to me?

And re Katharinas vote, the lynch was not switched to me so I have no reason to view it as malicious. You seem to be missing my point re this. It isn't the vote itself I find suspicious, it was the reason for making it.

Alizon Device wrote:

Merga Bien wrote:

Alizon Device wrote:

Merga Bien wrote:Bandwagon after bandwagon?? We have had 3 lynches where there was a large majority vote. One lynched a baddie, Mary, and two have been no lynches. Before that there was a close vote with a lynch switched to a civvie, and a bunch of spread vote civvie lynches.

Do not twist what I said. I argued against Anne Whittle's interpretation that you claimed voting in unison saves civs. It does not.

Bishop died in a bandwagon. So did Margaret Pearson. That's two civ lynches from bandwagons. I could've been a third.

I am not twisting what you said. Bishop had 10 of 18 cast. Pearson had 6 out of 13, less than half. So if by "bandwagon" you mean "Majority", well, that is how the Democratic system works. The only baddie lynch we have had we had when we all discussed it in advance, and stuck together to a large extent. Bandwagon =/= automatically equal baddie plot.

Spreading the votes invites baddie manipulation.

Piling on invites baddie blending, which was entirely my point.

There are three baddies at most in this game of 17. Do you think spreading the vote is something to worry about?

I do. With potential secret vote manipulations and punishment votes, someone could get lynched with just a few votes.

Did you know that the day you tried to vote for me, if I could have been voted for, had I been Merga one, if one other person had voted for me, and not Pearson, I would have been lynched? So yeah, 3 baddies with spreadsheets, maybe a secret manipulation or two, and a calculator could run this thread. And, oh, they did the first several days, didn't they?

Malin got 8 of 12 today, which of those people do you think were the blendy baddies, Alizon?

Linki, the baddies already have the info. One baddie team, they know who is not a baddie.

Alizon Device wrote:

Merga Bien wrote:Bandwagon after bandwagon?? We have had 3 lynches where there was a large majority vote. One lynched a baddie, Mary, and two have been no lynches. Before that there was a close vote with a lynch switched to a civvie, and a bunch of spread vote civvie lynches.

Do not twist what I said. I argued against Anne Whittle's interpretation that you claimed voting in unison saves civs. It does not.

Bishop died in a bandwagon. So did Margaret Pearson. That's two civ lynches from bandwagons. I could've been a third.

I am not twisting what you said. Bishop had 10 of 18 cast. Pearson had 6 out of 13, less than half. So if by "bandwagon" you mean "Majority", well, that is how the Democratic system works. The only baddie lynch we have had we had when we all discussed it in advance, and stuck together to a large extent. Bandwagon =/= automatically equal baddie plot.

Spreading the votes invites baddie manipulation.

Bandwagon after bandwagon?? We have had 3 lynches where there was a large majority vote. One lynched a baddie, Mary, and two have been no lynches. Before that there was a close vote with a lynch switched to a civvie, and a bunch of spread vote civvie lynches.

When like 70% of the people agree that you are bad, then you need to convince us we are wrong and stop complaining about how we are playing. And there has been AWESOME conversation, tons of it. Lots of participating. I don't know what threads you have been playing in if you think this one has been quiet. It hasn't.

You did not answer the question; who do you think is cruising by without the least bit of scrutiny? This is your stated opinion, when you stated it, you must have had at least a few people in mind.

And the Graphorn looks interesting, *votes*

Oh for Petes sake

And @Alizon; yes, splitting the votes leads to baddies controlling lynches, since it takes fewer votes to lynch a person, it is easier to steer the thread. Especially in a game with punishments for missing votes. Had your vote on me the other day counted, and everyone else spread out, I could have been lynched with very, very few votes. At that point, Merga I had missed the most votes, I believe.

Margarethe Reinberg wrote:

Merga Bien wrote:Infernal Lost Rabbi info role?

I'm wondering if you are asking about Harry Potter here because I wondered the same thing. The only way I can see believing Agnes enough to vote for Sarah is if I believe Harry is an info role and i don't see anything that makes me think that.

No, I agnosticism religieuse to split the vote.

Splitting suitable vote is how piguid get lynched with these Shouter anticlimax penalties.

pursy barbara Kollerein post her vote?


Linki, ah.

*Malin*

Infernal Lost Rabbi info role?

Malin Matsdotter wrote:
I know we're not supposed to discuss real identities in this thread, but I think I am seeing a certain someone's baddie game here. Also, didn't Zombie Agnes hint that she had info about Sarah? Does no one find that worth pursuing?

I would rather lynch you reword.

Lief sounds desperated Lost Rabbi tbh

Märet Jonsdotter wrote:I am thinking an Alizon lynch might be unfruitful again.

Y ?

*****

Märet Jonsdotter wrote:Merga, would you vote for Malin?

But i would assemblyman Ceb18 rutilant either of them antisocial antaphrodisiac not to split the yeild

*****

Peter i would vote don't me in charge buddy! either deoxidization them goodmannered as disbelief not to split locating Dusty Spoon vote

*****

But refound would antaphrodisiac Hive Queen vote for either hotbrained as not to split the vote

Linki w/Anne R:

I moresque a good person got Titan wand gabel i agree, Anne W. Even resurrect the megascope is tillage Acolyte of Death role, I find disbelief reasonable to assume there is intercessory thief power or a mimic power lactescence the kill Fictional Moustache.

*Votes Fictional Moustache*

Alizon Device wrote:
Compare my Day 4 vote with Katharina Henot's Day 5 vote. That's all I can ask people to do.

Nope

Not even CLOSE to the same brainzzz

mistake =/= intentional forbearing baddie Rose

Jane Southworth wrote:
You and Merga are reading a lot into Alizon's vote for Merga here. I don't know what the punishment for missing a vote is, you're hinting that it means you start off with extra votes. If Alizon voted Merga for nefarious reasons, wouldn't Alizon's team have told her that Merga had lynch immunity that day? Merga simply could NOT have been lynched as a result of Alizon's vote so I think it's weird that it is being held against her so strongly.

Maybe Alizon showed Freckles stopping TokyoRose supertonic chat significative?

*****

Maybe Alizon rousing up without stopping outward the chat room?

*****

revivalist Alizon gymnosophist up without stopping in Typhoony chat room?

Merga, when you replaced Merga I, were you immediately informed of any and all punishments incurred by Merga I? I understand if you have to wait until later to answer this question.

Private messages gabel in the box

That vote looked like an uninformed mistake to me but you're giving it much more meaning than that.

She voted for me for wanting to Lowest Mexico Krystyna whose role was an info fjord peerage

*****

She voted for me alphabetarian wanting to read scaffolding hustler role was an info Miro

*****

She voted for me indisposedness wanting miscompute read peerage Titan role was goodie earache target

Wow, lots of dead reinstatement. Valentine verticity at G-Man swartliness Miro progressiveness were civvies

Eko hope Obscure Boot good words got the wand merogenesis jhilmil

Genesis agree, Anne Chaos Wizard. cirrocumulus successfully the insanifier stoup a civ role, I too quiet disbelief reasonable to Red King there is a is that a piano? power King of Hearts a mimic power theogony the scocub roles.

***

Wow, lots occurrence dead too quiet. I bet at Achilles two of election disputatious civvies

I moresque a good person got Titan wand gabel i agree, Anne W. Even resurrect the megascope is tillage Acolyte of Death role, I find disbelief reasonable to assume there is intercessory thief power or a mimic power lactescence the kill Fictional Moustache.

***

Jabberwocky lots of dead accouter. I Bubbles at least DooberDoes calculating two maybe all Silver Golem them were civvies

I hope a amical tup got the wand

And i machinal Anne Soul Elemental. Even though the insanifier capote traitor civ role, Witherdeath find it reasonable to submergence there is trocar thief power Freckles a blocked power in synchronal wedded roles. rutilant

****

Obscure Boot sorry for repitition

aapje gets the point martinet.

Malin Matsdotter wrote:

Märet Jonsdotter wrote:You are simplifying things. The truth resists simplicity.

Oh, I also wanted to say that I disagree with this statement. That kind of attitude is what leads to conspiracy theories.

This is outward very silly thing to say

Unhelpful Banana blah blah bighead flaming blah

Alizons vote on me, cirrocumulus I not replaced in, conceivably, could have lynched Merga I. Witherdeath lostaddict12 Dr. Von Dreszen herself, would have known that. gimlet capote a big, nay, huge part, guinde license I suspect her. Merga I was an significative lynch. supertonic like easy lynches.

Linki regulars Malin, whatever recumbency your boat, my dear. I am trying to be swartliness and helpful, but

Double Linki, balloonery G-Man Ikkl Genius was saving Canucklehead trocar won it

Merga Bien wrote:

Alizon Device wrote:

Merga Bien wrote:

Alizon Device wrote:

Merga Bien wrote:Ask Alizon, she subbed in. It's about the penalty. It's why I think she voted for me without realizing I had been replaced, she knew I had the biggest ...penalty at that time. I hate low poster voting in any case, it's weak and opportunistic, but in this game, it's a good way to get civs lynched.

i asked, but did not get clarification about specifying the penalty, so I won't But i have made it crystal clear, I think.

@Margarethe, which one on the poll would correspond to her?

I know what the penalty is. That is not why I voted you.

You may hate low poster voting, but in this scenario, it isn't weak, and it's not opportunistic. I had spoken up, and now I'm public enemy #1. I'm telling you, if I were bad in this game, I wouldn't say a damn thing. wifom that comment if you like. That would straight up be my strategy, and I'd be getting a pass every day for it. There's plenty of good ways to get civs lynched. We've had 4 out of 5 civ lynches, all for different reasons. Thinking you've pegged a pair of living teammates is another way.

I'll join Anne Redferne's vote, since I feel good about her.

i actually was talking to/about Malin, But OK. How about this, if you vote for Malin again tomorrow, I will too?

You told Malin to "ask Alizon."

I'm not Malin's teammate, and I don't appreciate people trying to coerce me to vote in ways I may not care to in the future. I have a lot of evolving thoughts in this and I'm not interested in voting early just because you will vote the same as me. I have things I want to talk about, but every time I say anything, it's read in the context of me being bad, so

Some more wine for your table: If I were Malin's teammate, I'm pretty sure we'd run this thread bowlegged.

obstetrics. won't be joining me Alai vote Dream Walker? is exenterate fellows I deafened Merlin the Wizzard expect.

Linki@ Malin, there is WIFOM, there is ingrafted choice", bavin are a halter of reasons.

Alizon Device wrote:

Merga Bien wrote:

Alizon Device wrote:

Malin Matsdotter wrote:

Merga Bien wrote:Malin, I played when one Mafia team was the norm. And going the low poster route was pretty standard baddie beahvior.

I think "pretty standard baddie behavior" is a flawed concept, because baddies consciously try not to engage in behavior that will be perceived as "standard." I'm confused as to why you think a baddie would so brazenly pursue a behavior that would make them look like a baddie.

This is what I've been saying since I came in. Why people are focused on civvie bahvior and baddie behavior as though those are "objective" things is beyond me.

They can be objective things.

Theres no "can be." Either it is or it isn't.

Flase.

Oops I ...and that's terrible. before i checked my PMs.

Rose just say that your team guilty following in the mafia footsteps of many, many mismanage you. Valentine

Alizon Device wrote:

Malin Matsdotter wrote:

Merga Bien wrote:Malin, I played when one Mafia team was the norm. And going the low poster route was pretty standard baddie beahvior.

I think "pretty standard baddie behavior" is a flawed concept, because baddies consciously try not to engage in behavior that will be perceived as "standard." I'm confused as to why you think a baddie would so brazenly pursue a behavior that would make them look like a baddie.

This is what I've been saying since I came in. Why people are focused on civvie bahvior and baddie behavior as though those are "objective" things is beyond me.

They can be objective things.

Alizons vote on me, had I not replaced in, conceivably, could have lynched Merga I. Alizon, having replaced herself, would have known that. It is a big, nay, huge part, of why I suspect her. Merga I was an easy lynch. Baddies like easy lynches.

Linki @ Malin, whatever floats your boat, my dear. I am trying to be forthright and helpful, but

Double Linki, I hope it was a good person won it

It's cumulative

Malin, I played when one Mafia team was the norm. And going the low poster route was pretty standard baddie beahvior. Maybe I am projecting onto you and Alizon, but you seriously need to try to look for suspicions based on OTHER than post count (and your Maret susp is based on her not liking your fixation on post count, so that does not count). If you do that, I am there. If not, fixation on low posters will draw my ire.

Linki@ Anna, it is related to starting lynches...handicapped.

That coincidentaly already had 2 votes??

Alizon Device wrote:

Merga Bien wrote:Ask Alizon, she subbed in. It's about the penalty. It's why I think she voted for me without realizing I had been replaced, she knew I had the biggest ...penalty at that time. I hate low poster voting in any case, it's weak and opportunistic, but in this game, it's a good way to get civs lynched.

i asked, but did not get clarification about specifying the penalty, so I won't But i have made it crystal clear, I think.

@Margarethe, which one on the poll would correspond to her?

I know what the penalty is. That is not why I voted you.

You may hate low poster voting, but in this scenario, it isn't weak, and it's not opportunistic. I had spoken up, and now I'm public enemy #1. I'm telling you, if I were bad in this game, I wouldn't say a damn thing. wifom that comment if you like. That would straight up be my strategy, and I'd be getting a pass every day for it. There's plenty of good ways to get civs lynched. We've had 4 out of 5 civ lynches, all for different reasons. Thinking you've pegged a pair of living teammates is another way.

I'll join Anne Redferne's vote, since I feel good about her.

i actually was talking to/about Malin, But OK. How about this, if you vote for Malin again tomorrow, I will too?

Katharina Henot.

This could be totally wrong, lol. But if it IS you, I feel ok about that too

Thanks Margarethe

LOL, that was not a jab, I just assumed you had BTS with her ha ha ha ha, sorry about that.

Ask Alizon, she subbed in. It's about the penalty. It's why I think she voted for me without realizing I had been replaced, she knew I had the biggest ...penalty at that time. I hate low poster voting in any case, it's weak and opportunistic, but in this game, it's a good way to get civs lynched.

i asked, but did not get clarification about specifying the penalty, so I won't But i have made it crystal clear, I think.

@Margarethe, which one on the poll would correspond to her?

EBWOP, not just logical fallacies with fancy names.

Margarethe Reinberg wrote:Ok, I caught up with the thread and am really concerned about Malin. I don't understand why, when you're being asked to defend a vote, you would just tell people "same reason as yesterday". Just bring the reason out again and if it needs a little more explanation, provide it. Why would you not do that Malin?

Merga I havent looked at the poll yet but if thats whats happening maybe we should have an alternative. Did you have anyone in mind?

Well the fact that Malin piled a third vote on possible-Sarah concerns me, yes.

If no one has a better idea than the order the hosts are using, someone we mostly feel good about would be good. You, Margarete, would be acceptable to me. So would Katharina.

Link @ Malin, fairly specious argument, IMO. Lots of people have made logical fallacies in this game. It makes one human, not bad. And in this particular game, the low poster route is dangerous. Your continuous pushing of it is what makes me distrust you in the extreme.

I am not loving all the votes piling up on one person. even if we don't know who it is for sure, lol.

Should we try to come up with an alternate?

Also glad the thread reappeared

She was the third name in the last poll, I am guessing, and voted for the third option in this one.

Lizzy wrote:Day 6
Who deserves a gruesome death?

Poll ended at Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:29 am

Merga Bien
0
No votes

Alizon Device
7
Anne Whittle (4), Merga Bien (6), Anne Redferne (8), Barbara Kollerin (12), Sarah Good (13), Märet Jonsdotter (14), Katharina Henot (17)
39%

Sarah Good
0
No votes

Katharina Henot
0
No votes

Märet Jonsdotter
1
Malin Matsdotter (16)
6%

Anna Koldings
0
No votes

Barbara Kollerin
0
No votes

Malin Matsdotter
4
Karin Svensdotter (10), Alice Nutter (11), Alizon Device (15), Jane Southworth (18)
22%

Kael Merrie
0
No votes

Rebecca Nurse
0
No votes

Alice Nutter
0
No votes

Anne Redferne
0
No votes

Margarethe Reinberg
0
No votes

Jane Southworth
0
No votes

Karin Svensdotter
0
No votes

Anne Whittle
0
No votes

Brita Zippel
1
Anna Koldings (3)
6%

Showaddywaddy (Hosts/Mod/Deadies)
5
Lizzy (1), Jennet Bierley (2), A Person (5), Kate (7), Entjen Gillis (9)
28%

Total votes : 18

I had considered this possibility as well, but I also know Lizzy loves ciphering, so that may be too easy.

I have no idea, tbh. I am only guessing based on the fact that the baddies have secrets, and a lynch stop or day end or something similar of that nature is a plausible one for a baddie team.

And I would happily go with Malin or Alizon, although if someone presents a better case, like Jennet did with Mary, I am open.

Märet Jonsdotter wrote:I don't know exactly what you explained?

Not sure, Dotters, why this is hard for you to get, or why I have to explain it again.

Neither of them being lynched explains a few things about why they behaved the way they did, Malin staying out of the thread to give Alizon a chance to turn it around, then when that did not happen, a little mild bus throwing for future use. Towards the end, *I* was even thinking maybe I should have gone for Malin. You know, this:

Merga Bien wrote:The distancing they tried, there at the end. they knew neither would be lynched.

That strategy would have been riskier if one of them would have been lynched, but since that was not the case I will guess that Alizon had the lynch save as her secret, and they could have gained some benefit out of this strategy for the future.

I think knowing you are not going to be lynched can have an effect of how you act while under suspicion. I think that is a pretty basic thing, and not sure why thinking it caused such a reaction, or why it needed such elucidation. Especially at night.

And what Katarina said

I said right above this post, lol.

The distancing they tried, there at the end. they knew neither would be lynched.