The Syndicate

Alizon Device wrote:I want to link to Jane's post and add to it now.

I am operating under the opinion that the resurrected persons are in service to Tom Riddle.

Jennet said she gunned hard for Mary and knew she would be killed for it. So if Jennet was Hermoine and checked Mary, that explains the sudden fervor. If this is true, then looking at when Jennet voted might be helpful~

1. Enjen (21st, no info)
2. Krystyna (22nd, no info)
3. Enjen (19th, likely no info)
4. Mary (4th, info)
5. Mary (3rd, info)

Now then, if Jennet were Hermoine, and she came back to life insisting on a Karin lynch, she'd be implying that she checked Karin. Asking to be lynched, then, would be an effective strategy in getting others to believe Karin should be lynched. However, looking at the above sequence, it can be assumed that Jennet did not check Karin unless she did so on the night she was killed.

Jennet Bierley wrote:

Katharina Henot wrote:

Jennet Bierley wrote:Anyway, I really don't believe you all should be following what Alizon has to say today. She's seemingly taken the reigns and is leading us astray. She could be a misguided townie, but she very well could be a Death Eater (my belief).

I disagree with you. I think at *worst* she is a misguided civ, but I do not think at all that Alizon is a Death Eater.

I'm also curious as to why you and Barbara are so sure that lynching you is a) the best way to go and b) will give us lots of information.

Because lynching me will presumably reveal my role (something that a NK will not do). Don't you also find it interesting that Alizon believes I am "working" for Lord Voldemort, but has no interest in lynching me? She knows what will happen, and does not want it to happen, the same reason she has been keeping me alive. This is also why she does not want to lynch Karin, who I do know is bad. I'm sorry I can't tell anything more than this vague statement, but I would be breaking rules if I did.

Alizon Device wrote:I want to link to Jane's post and add to it now.

I am operating under the opinion that the resurrected persons are in service to Tom Riddle.

Jennet said she gunned hard for Mary and knew she would be killed for it. So if Jennet was Hermoine and checked Mary, that explains the sudden fervor. If this is true, then looking at when Jennet voted might be helpful~

1. Enjen (21st, no info)
2. Krystyna (22nd, no info)
3. Enjen (19th, likely no info)
4. Mary (4th, info)
5. Mary (3rd, info)

Now then, if Jennet were Hermoine, and she came back to life insisting on a Karin lynch, she'd be implying that she checked Karin. Asking to be lynched, then, would be an effective strategy in getting others to believe Karin should be lynched. However, looking at the above sequence, it can be assumed that Jennet did not check Karin unless she did so on the night she was killed.

Rewind to Agnes Sampson.

Agnes never said we should lynch Sarah Good. I threw out an interpretation of her vague comment and Anna Koldings expressed agreement with my thinking~

Anna Koldings wrote:

Alizon Device wrote:

Agnes Sampson wrote:Cool it with the snark everyone. Zombie don't play that. Anyway, we have more important things to discuss. The underworld was most illuminating. I can't be very specific, but let me just say that names can be deceiving.

So Sarah Good is not good.

I'd buy that. It doesn't work with anyone else's name (if that Agnes was driving at).

But right after this, Mary went nuts and Agnes never responded to me. Weirdly enough, Agnes spent her time back going after Entjen, then said this~

Agnes Sampson wrote:I really do have thoughts on players other than Entjen I swear, I will get to them soon, Im glad we have 24 hours and not a only a few like Margarethe almost had me believing! :P But alas, I am likely not long for this world so I will have to hurry in any case.

Then

Agnes Sampson wrote:Okay Entjen then who do you think is bad? The only person being discussed that I see right now is Mary, who I will get to in a bit. We need to be talking about more than one person in order to see which way the discussions head toward. As you have said before yourself there is more than one baddie out there.

I have thoughts on other players that I'm trying to get organized, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on other players as well.

Isn't it funny that Agnes came back and tried to have people discuss someone other than Lucius Malfoy?

Then

Agnes Sampson wrote:I think the case on Mary is pretty compelling. I'm placing my vote there.

Agnes never got back to us about any of these other players she supposedly had thoughts on, nor did she respond to my interpretation of what she said.

That, coupled with my opinion that resurrected persons are working for Tom Riddle, had been giving me pause about Sarah Good being bad.

But if Sarah Good WERE bad, and Agnes was working for the baddies, then her cryptic remark backfired. Agnes would have had no reason to address it and could move on to getting Entjen lynched. That didn't happen, and Agnes voted second to last for Mary, right before Sarah Good.

Jennet Bierley wrote:Anyway, I really don't believe you all should be following what Alizon has to say today. She's seemingly taken the reigns and is leading us astray. She could be a misguided townie, but she very well could be a Death Eater (my belief).

Alizon Device wrote:Color the ones you think should be lynched with red the ones you're nervous about with yellow and those who are good with green. Not sure? Leave it alone.

Alizon Device- I've caught her hints and I believe them. Also - when I stopped being narrow sighted and listened to her, she made a lot of sense.
Sarah Good - I don't have any real read on her at all and this late in the game that's what's making me nervous. I can't say she's bad, can't say she's good.
Katharina Henot She's definately good. She has made some bad judgment calls this game, but so have we all. Also she survived a Death Eater Attack.
Märet Jonsdotter Yellow-green here. I'm leaning toward good because she also survived a Death Eater kill also I have on and off agreed with her.
Malin Matsdotter Green-Yellow - I agree with her more than I don't.
Alice Nutter Yellow-green - also survived a Death Eater attempt, but I don't remember much of what she has had to say and that makes me wary.
Anne Redferne I know at one point in the beginning of the game I thought she was good, but now I'm not sure. Can't place my finger on why I can't move her solidly to the green category but I can't.
Jane Southworth I've agreed with her pretty much all game. She and Jennet were the two people I've felt most strongly to be civ since the beginning of the game.
Karin Svensdotter Green-yellow. I found the timing of people coming out for her odd. And not just because it was the rezzed players that started the ball rolling. I suspected her for days and days and days I even VOTED FOR HER and nobody gave it a second glance *including Karin*. She comes back, starts being more active, I start thinking hey - she might have just really been busy at the start of the game, and *bam* like all of a sudden she's public enemy number 1. That by itself has me leaning more toward green. But she can be being trickstery - I can't also ignore the fact that maybe Jennet is right even though I think it's highly unlikely.

Anne Redferne wrote:i have no idea what you just said, jane

It does say in the post that malin was targeted for death, it doesn't say she was targeted by baddies though.

I don't think Malin is part of the Mafia.

Anne Whittle wrote:I am voting Karin We have been given a gift. Alizon herself has given it to us.

The way to find out about Alizon for sure is by testing those she brought to us. It will put to rest her alignment fore the rest of the game.

Anne Redferne trying to discount Agnes/Harry Potter only makes me more sure that we should follow Jennet and Barbara.
Suggesting we lynch Jennet or Barbara only proves NOTHING except that you prefer to waste lynches. Why would you want to waste another day of no lynch Anne Redferne? Why would any sane civ want to lynch someone who is dead? They are not rezz'ed and are not here permanently this makes no sense to lynch them.

If Karin comes back bad I think her partners are Jane Southworth and Anne Redferne and ofc Alizon.

I find it quite hilarious that Alizon has completely dropped me from her radar.

Jane Southworth wrote:Jennet your proposal to be lynched in order to validate your suspicions is interesting. How long do you think you're back for? Will you be leaving as soon as Agnes did? If you'll soon be forced to go back to the underworld or wherever no matter what, then I think this might be worth doing. Your case on Karin isn't strong enough IMO for me to simply take your word on it like you want us to. I think that you (and Barb?) might have been rezzed with good intentions, but I'm not sure what to make of your arrival or how you've both played since you've been back. It feels like I'm being used as a pawn being forced to vote or think a certain way. I just have my doubts.

This is also exactly how Agnes acted versus Entjen when she returned, and I just looked back and Agnes was returned to us on the same Day that Mary Eastey was eventually lynched. In hindsight Agnes's case against Entjen looks like it could have been a distraction to try and take attention away from Mary. Agnes made a cryptic post about Sarah Good to start and then spent the rest of the Day attacking Entjen while promising to give thoughts about other players but she never delivered. Agnes had similar credentials as Jennet: Agnes was posthumously outed as an important student role, Jennet led the charge against the only lynched baddie. The perfect (sock)puppets for the Death eaters to "rez"/recruit. I can't shake the feeling that I shouldn't trust the new you and that this is all a messy distraction from everything that's happened the past 3 days.

Märet Jonsdotter wrote:

Alizon Device wrote:

Märet Jonsdotter wrote:

Alizon Device wrote:
a) false. I said I didn't like the margin.
b) false. I have no info on anyone.
c) false. I have no teammate. I DO have a vested interest in Malin living, and that's because she's the only person voting with me and believing me.

If you're civ, please re-read the roles. This is so elementary it's painful.

Please, bless me with your wisdom, Sherlock.
I thought you were hinting at that you saved Malin. If you're going to be pompous, I'm going to be blunt.

I know you don't like being toyed with, but I'm not your enemy if you are a student.

I saved Malin. Or myself. As I said, I didn't like the margins. Please, again, read the roles.

I know what role you are hinting at.

If everything you're telling me is "true", then I can come to the conclusion that you're lying. It's that simple.

You either feel confident enough to say Malin is civilian or you are lying.

Anne Redferne wrote:wow that is a pretty damn good case holy shit

Jane Southworth wrote:

Anne Redferne wrote:wow that is a pretty damn good case holy shit

Do you think it is? Barbara only said some of the same things others have mentioned earlier about Karin (that she only talked about the teachers at the beginning of the game). Then Barbara used Karin's vote for Mary against her. All of Karin's votes have seemed out of the blue and not something she brings up beforehand. Her vote for Mary is no different from her votes earlier or later in the game. But Barbara turned that vote around on her when I see nothing suspicious about that vote. When Barbara "had a look" at Karin, she ignored most of Karin's more recent contributions where she seems to be paying attention more and posting more. Barbara opts instead to count Karin's total posts and average them out, basically just saying that she's been a low poster for most of the game.

I agree with you Katharina. I'm thinking that all might not be as it appears with the rezzes this game.

Jane Southworth wrote:RIP Merga. I was hoping we wouldn't lose you

Barbara, Jennet, have either of you even read the thread since you died? Its honestly way too early and frankly there are other things going on right now. In addition I'm really starting to get worried about how lynches are being manipulated and then you cast quick votes on yet another low poster. Why Karin and why now? I have my own suspicions about Karin but this comes literally out of nowhere, and at a very strange time in the game.

Do either of you know why you were returned to us? Barbara, do you know how or why you died? All we were told was "non-magical causes". What do both of you think of Alizon and Malin?

Alizon Device wrote:

Katharina Henot wrote:You know what Alizon, I wasn't exactly civil to you in that post. And for that, I do apologize.

Some of my posts were not nice~ I'm sorry too. I was frustrated, but I didn't mean to be a bitchy witchy.

Alizon Device wrote:Anyone who hasn't voted yet is welcome to ask me anything about my vote. I will gladly talk to you. But I am done wasting my time with people who vote and then try to direct traffic (Merga).

Alizon Device wrote:I am not interested in answering people who are wrong and have already voted and are already convinced. I'm glad you three wasted your vote, but I hope the lynch can be saved.

I will respond to people who genuinely give a damn about taking down Voldemort. Sorry, Anne, but 15 posts, a third of which are jokey, don't cut it. I'm busy too.

Merga Bien wrote:

Alizon Device wrote:Also, the "mama bear" excuse means you gun for people actively participating. As someone who puts time into games I sign up for or replace into, that's discouraging.

Linki~ I never said they bandwagoned me personally. I think it's been going on all game. And for the third time, I specifically called out Anne Whittle. You're fine defending people who don't play, and you ignore what an active player has said to you twice now.

What did I ignore? And you can try to turn the tables all you want; I still think, and all my Mafia experience tells me, that my personal thoughts aside, gunning for low posters when there is only one bad team, is the primary strategy of baddie teams. When you are the only bad team, you can either try lynching civvies, or lynching low posters.

And I Momma Bear pretty much anyone I think is being unfairly targeted. Which in this instance is low posters.

I think rather than being distracted, we need to think about what Anne R is saying. It is plausible.

Anne Whittle wrote:

Alizon Device wrote:Also, the "mama bear" excuse means you gun for people actively participating. As someone who puts time into games I sign up for or replace into, that's discouraging.

Linki~ I never said they bandwagoned me personally. I think it's been going on all game. And for the third time, I specifically called out Anne Whittle. You're fine defending people who don't play, and you ignore what an active player has said to you twice now.

Sorry I am not as full of free time as you seem to be. I play games I sign up for too. I put time in. I do read and catch up I just do not post every little thought that comes into my head. Now you have pulled out the old no u and it only makes me more confident you are bad.

You and Malin both will not let go of your low poster stances even though they have been quite fruitless. If you lynch me for being a low poster I hope you learn something for future games such as admitting sometimes people are busy and cba'ed to be as active as they would like to be.

Definitely does not mean Idc what happens to the civ's bc I do hence my votes for who I believe to be baddie. As for my last vote it was quite obv no one was going to vote you as the tide had turned to Malin my vote would not have mattered if I had voted you. As a civ I like my vote to matter.

Alizon Device wrote:Also, the "mama bear" excuse means you gun for people actively participating. As someone who puts time into games I sign up for or replace into, that's discouraging.

Linki~ I never said they bandwagoned me personally. I think it's been going on all game. And for the third time, I specifically called out Anne Whittle. You're fine defending people who don't play, and you ignore what an active player has said to you twice now.

Alizon Device wrote:

Katharina Henot wrote:

Alizon Device wrote:

Merga Bien wrote:Bandwagon after bandwagon?? We have had 3 lynches where there was a large majority vote. One lynched a baddie, Mary, and two have been no lynches. Before that there was a close vote with a lynch switched to a civvie, and a bunch of spread vote civvie lynches.

Do not twist what I said. I argued against Anne Whittle's interpretation that you claimed voting in unison saves civs. It does not.

Bishop died in a bandwagon. So did Margaret Pearson. That's two civ lynches from bandwagons. I could've been a third.

but you weren't - because somehow you were saved.

And you knew the whole time you weren't going to be lynched didn't you?


There's no fault in admitting that btw. I can see civ reasons for it. But lets be honest here. Your post sounds like fear mongering. Why would you cause more fear when you could make things more clear? That's my problem with you.

I want to work with you - and it seems like you want to work with me. Thow me an olive branch for god's sake! If you are civ - help a sista out.

I wasn't saved. I knew I'd live.

I don't think I dealt in any fear mongering, though I don't don't mind doing it to scare baddies.

Do you realize asking me all these questions at Night just gives baddies info?

Märet Jonsdotter wrote:Because she isn't

alizon divice wrote:

Alizon Device wrote:
Piling on invites baddie blending, which was entirely my point.

There are three baddies at most in this game of 17. Do you think spreading the vote is something to worry about?

I do. With potential secret vote manipulations and punishment votes, someone could get lynched with just a few votes.

Did you know that the day you tried to vote for me, if I could have been voted for, had I been Merga one, if one other person had voted for me, and not Pearson, I would have been lynched? So yeah, 3 baddies with spreadsheets, maybe a secret manipulation or two, and a calculator could run this thread. And, oh, they did the first several days, didn't they?

Malin got 8 of 12 today, which of those people do you think were the blendy baddies, Alizon?

Linki, the baddies already have the info. One baddie team, they know who is not a baddie.

Alizon Device wrote:

Merga Bien wrote:Bandwagon after bandwagon?? We have had 3 lynches where there was a large majority vote. One lynched a baddie, Mary, and two have been no lynches. Before that there was a close vote with a lynch switched to a civvie, and a bunch of spread vote civvie lynches.

Do not twist what I said. I argued against Anne Whittle's interpretation that you claimed voting in unison saves civs. It does not.

Bishop died in a bandwagon. So did Margaret Pearson. That's two civ lynches from bandwagons. I could've been a third.

Alizon Device wrote:

Katharina Henot wrote:

Alizon Device wrote:Here's my dilemma and why I don't like it.

People think Malin & I are teammates. We're not. If I don't vote for Malin (or maybe even if I do), and Malin turns out bad, then this will harden the idea that I'm Malin's teammate in their minds.

What keeps coming back to haunt me is Mary's lynch. Mary brought a lot of attention upon herself, and if Malin was a teammate, I just can not see her refraining from throwing Mary under the bus (as I believe her team did). Mary got 12 votes which I think is a record in this game.

I just feel like there's people cruising by without the least bit of scrutiny. If quiet baddies win I'm going to be mad.

who is cruzing by without the least bit of scrutiny? What are we missing?

We're missing your vote for one.

There's hardly any talk during the day until the last couple of hours, and then it's bandwagon after bandwagon. People want to spend 42 hours saying nothing and then popping up to vote whichever way the wind is blowing.

Jennet Bierley wrote:I'm still #2 in total posts.

yea...you're a talky witch.

Alizon Device wrote:Here's my dilemma and why I don't like it.

People think Malin & I are teammates. We're not. If I don't vote for Malin (or maybe even if I do), and Malin turns out bad, then this will harden the idea that I'm Malin's teammate in their minds.

What keeps coming back to haunt me is Mary's lynch. Mary brought a lot of attention upon herself, and if Malin was a teammate, I just can not see her refraining from throwing Mary under the bus (as I believe her team did). Mary got 12 votes which I think is a record in this game.

I just feel like there's people cruising by without the least bit of scrutiny. If quiet baddies win I'm going to be mad.

Karin Svensdotter wrote:Okay. So I was able to read through Maret. This is what I have noticed about Maret. She participcates, yes, but she doesn't come up with anything original. Her posts only piggyback others' quotes. And this...

Märet Jonsdotter wrote:

Märet Jonsdotter wrote:

Katharina Henot wrote:

Märet Jonsdotter wrote: Mary comes across as a cornered baddie, IMO. But the people making the biggest waves HAVE NOT been getting lynched. That's obvious.

Which people do you think are making the biggest waves? And why should we vote them?

Why?

...

What is that? "..." You talk to me about not answering. You actually SAW the questions, quoted it, and didn't answer.

And again, the "case on Karin" you say Katharina gave was only her saying I was a low poster. That is all Katharina said about me. That is not a case in my opinion.

My question to you Maret...Is it better to talk a lot/"participate" and never say anything of substance or to keep your mouth shut and talk/participate when you have something beneficial to say?

It seems to me that you are trying way too hard to look civ. And I know you survived a kill attempt by Voldie. But, couldn't that have been the mafia targeting one of their own for a kill to get them civvie cred?

I'm voting Maret.

I will take the night period to study more players

linki with Maret. When I was talking about low posters, I was talking about you refering to wanting to start a lynch on ME due to my low posting. Also, you say you were in an argument with Alizon and Malin about how it is foolish to vote low posters. Then why were you okay to vote a low poster when Katharina brought it up? Sounds like you are contradicting yourself there. Or maybe you and Katharina are working together I will read her further in a bit. Time to do RL things.

Alizon Device wrote:

Jane Southworth wrote:You and Merga are reading a lot into Alizon's vote for Merga here. I don't know what the punishment for missing a vote is, you're hinting that it means you start off with extra votes. If Alizon voted Merga for nefarious reasons, wouldn't Alizon's team have told her that Merga had lynch immunity that day? Merga simply could NOT have been lynched as a result of Alizon's vote so I think it's weird that it is being held against her so strongly. That vote looked like an uninformed mistake to me but you're giving it much more meaning than that.

Compare my Day 4 vote with Katharina Henot's Day 5 vote. That's all I can ask people to do.

Jane Southworth wrote:Same question to you Alizon. Were you informed when you joined the game about any punishments that were currently affecting Alizon I?

I was aware.

Jane Southworth wrote:Alizon survived a lynch yesterday. What do we think will happen if we lynch her today? I have not seen this discussed.

I was dismayed that the immediate explanation discussed for my survival was that "the baddies have secrets." Dismayed, but not surprised.

Märet Jonsdotter wrote:

Malin Matsdotter wrote:
If I think I have found a baddie, of course I want people to agree with me. If it turns out I am wrong, though, I don't see how their actions are my fault. That's like blaming drunk driving on the bartender.

I voted Maret again.

Why?

Margarethe Reinberg wrote:I am really sorry fellow witches and hosts for missing the vote today. I got tied up and just flat forgot the vote was today. This is not something I have ever done while playing mafia. Anyway, I need to catch up but its too late tonight and I have appointments in the morning so unfortunately it will be tomorrow afternoon before I can do it. Again, I apologize, it won't happen again.

Märet Jonsdotter wrote:I don't know exactly what you explained?

Merga Bien wrote:The distancing they tried, there at the end. they knew neither would be lynched.

Anna Koldings wrote:Alright, I haven't read everything, but some thoughts anyways:

I didn't notice much (any?) discussion about Agnes coming back from the dead, then the re-deadening. I do think it means that she is indeed Harry (came back because of the Horcrux, perhaps there was some event with her vs. Voldemort, and she was killed again because she lost).

The resurrection stone event was supposed to be held already, but got pushed back, correct? I'm assuming the winner will be able to temporarily bring back a deadie, similar to what we saw with Agnes (perhaps someone started the game with the ring, and that's why she was brought back for a while), or have BTSC with them or something along those lines. It could be a proper res, but that isn't really what it does.

Now, Jennet. The necklace was the one Katie Bell was supposed to use to kill Dumbledore, courtesy of Draco. Now, could just be story, but since Lucius just died, it could also be that, similarly to how Draco replaced him as a Death Eater when he was sent to Azkaban, Draco joined the team when Lucius died.

Entjen's death fits with the destruction of a Horcrux (the diadem)... and Crabbe didn't actually have any control over the wlydfire, so perhaps he didn't get to choose his target (or, maybe Entjen actually was Crabbe, and it was an expiration date role)?

I think I'll do a read of Mary, since there was finally a good lynch result perhaps something there will be useful in figuring out teammates.