The Syndicate

Gobnait Gingeruite wrote:

Bac Wunderelin wrote:

Mainchin Ironbeast wrote:

Shand Azureye wrote:I apologize for not participating much today; work has been brutal, and I haven't been able to give the game as much time as it deserves. I've read through and enjoyed the eloquent, well-thought out recent posts. Unfortunately, and this could also have to do with my shattered confidence -- I really believed Jorhan would flip bad -- I'm still not getting any strong pings. What also makes my hands a bit shaky as I move it towards the vote button is Bac's idea that there may be another secret baddie team lurking. If this is correct, then our situation looks very bleak indeed, and we most certainly need to choose our target wisely today.

Right now, I'm fairly certain that Gobnait is a townie (else, he's the best baddie I have ever played against), and I'm feeling good about Bac as well. Despite the Jorhan debacle, I still feel uneasy about Queran, but that may just be because of his style. His eloquence and verbosity I appreciate more than anyone else's in the game, and at the same time, it's these same qualities that also make me a bit apprehensive about his agenda. I certainly don't have anything concrete against him though, and while I don't feel comfortable voting for him today, my eyes are ever set on him.

Ameerah Frolicstag wrote:Mainchin - Table switcher. First to propose the idea that there is at least one mafia at each table and that the hosts may have decreed that. Says he will likely randomize Day 1, then ultimately decides to vote for a low poster, Gaerwen. He defends Laine here when Laine began taking heat for his posts and vote Day 1. He has a couple of posts defending Gobnait (maybe buddying up to him??). And I was somewhat bothered by his post here. At the end he says he will try to find some time to read back and form some opinions of his own, but barring that will vote for "the most satisfactory argument from my esteemed fellow creatures." To me this reads like a nice little set-up for being able to place the blame on someone else's case if a civvie gets lynched again.

Thank you for the synopses Ameerah, that helped me a lot. I've my eyes on all the three players you mention (Mainchin, Laine, and Carmen). Of the three, I find Mainchin the most interesting at this point, especially coupled with the point that Rhinfrew brought up earlier. Mainchin voted for Miyuki at a point when Jorhan was all but sure to be lynched. This could be a simple baddie tactic to stay out of trouble, knowing (as only a baddie can know) that the town would come after the Jorhan-voters when, eventually, it would be revealed that Jorhan was good. This is a minor ping, however, and truth be told, I'm almost as lost today as I was on day 1. I do have to vote soon because I don't know if I will be able to get on the internet before the poll closes. I will give it another hour or so, and hopefully a second read will bring something to my attention that I might have missed in my first. Failing that, I'm leaning towards a Mainchin vote today.

I have never ever voted for Myuki!

I found this while rereading mainchin. I find it interesting. Ameerah and Shand both are kind of (looking at it in retrospect) trying to cast suspicion against Mainchin. I also find it WAAAAAY interesting that Ameerah mentions someone buddying up to Gobnait. Buddying up is not the totally commonest expression, in Mafia. I did a search of it at RM and came up with 66 matches. Second time this game I see someone discussing "buddying up" in relation to Gobnait.

Personally I have no connection to Gobnait, but a few people seem realllly invested in trying to plot connections for him. Shand also specifically says he would like to plot connections for Mainchin, Carmen & Laine based on Ameerahs post. Now, Mainchin was a civvie. My initial suspicion of Laine was based on Jorhan being bad, which he was not. A lot of people, including me, seem to see potential civ credentials in Carmen.

This post is one of theose things that make you go hmmmm, as far as I am concerned.

Today we have a chance to have a lynch free of fear of talking and free of Rumpys manipulation. We really need to talk a lot today, and get our cards and suspicions on the table.

Thank you for this!

Bac, I'm sorry if it seems like I'm "buddying up" to you. When I'm trying to decide whether what a player says is true, I base my judgment on 2 things: 1) whether their theory makes sense or I can trust any info they're putting out, and 2) whether I trust your motives. Since, after your insanification and subsequent kill attempt you mentioned, I believe you are civ, for you I only have to look at #1 when reading your statements. This makes me more likely to trust you. However, I hope other players will judge my statements on their own merits when deciding whether I am civ, regardless of whose opinions I ask for.

I think it also bears mentioning that you were originally accused of buddying up to me, by Queran, a few days ago.

I'm very convinced that there is in fact a plot to create connections for me that I do not have, as you said, and I believe it's pretty clear that Queran is leading it. I'll pull the quote if anyone needs me to, but Queran used this tactic yesterday with Mainchin when he said that if Carmen flipped bad he also believed Mainchin would. The fact that Ameerah and Queran have used the same terms, your silencing after mentioning Ameerah, and her mentioning a Carmen and Laine connection, makes me think that Ameerah likely does not have civ interests at heart either. I can't be sure, but I think Queran and Ameerah believed that Carmen would flip bad, and then saw the opportunity to secure a civ lynch the next day by linking her to Mainchin and Laine.

Bac Wunderelin wrote:I am curious; Queran keeps trying to implicate me with Gob. Does any one have opinions regarding Queran vs. Gob? TBH, I could see either or both of them being civ, or either or both of them being bad (presuming there are two bad teams), or any combo thereof.

i know this was a biggish topic a few days ago, but it seems to have died down.

Bac Wunderelin wrote:The same way as last time would be my guess

Gobnait Gingeruite wrote:Wow, 2-2-2 so far! Avoiding that spread is going....poorly. I have to choose now and then sleep. I will go Finnian for reasons previously stated. I still feel worst about him. And I'm not sure about the "subtle push" being discussed, but I think the possibility is there. Linki #2: wait, is the "subtle push" away from Carmen or Finnian?

Linki #1: Miyuki, can you explain why the scenario you put forth is the only way a nogoodnik would dare hint at a civvie role? And the hint you seem to have picked up is a different role than the one I had been reading. Since when are role hints ok, anyway? Every other game I've played, hints have made people want to lynch the person more, not less.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that Bac's thoughts on Ameerah are right, as well. Occam's Razor says silencing and then killing him to stop him talking about her is a solid plan. But given the current spread I think that's a debate for tomorrow.

Linki #3: Wow Queran, prolific today!

6

Dierdre Wonderbird wrote:I think there is a lot of distraction going on.

4

Etain Royalskull wrote:

Queran Gloomsoul wrote:Why Etain, Metalfox? I myself have that small "link-theory" about Mainchin and Carmen, but I'm not sure how Etain and Carmen connect?

27.

We connect by pure desperation methinks.

11.

Shand Azureye wrote:As we move close to the deadline, I once more find myself devoid of any level of certainty. It's uncanny how well the mafia have been hiding thus far. There's just that small element of doubt about Carmen and Finnian which makes me wary of voting for either today. Carmen's alleged role hinting, and Finnian, if he were a baddie would he miss lynch polls, thereby surrendering his nightly powers?

Talking of this later, in the absence of any other strong candidates, I thought it might not be a bad idea to look at low posters who were not missing the lynches. They, I believe, are much more likely to be mafia, flying under the radar, but ensuring that they have full use of their evil powers at night.

I found two names: Fane with 11 posts, and Dierdre with 15. Both have voted in all lynches so far. Anyone have any thoughts on these two? All the other low posters have missed at least one vote.

15

Eurolyvn Blissfulone wrote:

Carmen Brightsun wrote:I have been crazy busy this week and I should be working right now, but I am choosing Mafia . I think the best case we have is against Finnian. All of the suspicions you have about me are just suspicions. Why did I survive the lynch? Who knows. As some of you have mentioned, there are several possibilities. There is no real evidence showing that I am bad. Now, what we have on Finnian, that is evidence. He failed to vote (meaning he would lose his night ability) then we have no night kills. I definitely believe he should be on the chopping block today.

linki with Mainchin - What if Rumple saved me from the lynch to throw everyone off, confuse you all, make you think I am mafia so you will lynch me and not one of his own.

linki with Etain - Yes. If you were Rumple and had enough votes to manipulate any way you'd like, why not do so. Who cares who you are saving one civvie and getting rid of another. You would do it just to mess with people's heads. I think I would.

Point out to me which role says it has the power to kill each night. You won't find it, I know because I looked. It has become increasingly more popular among hosts creating games to make the night kill a team power rather than a role power, and I would be willing to bet that is the case here too. The case that Finnian is bad because he did not vote and then we did not have night kills. Therefore he is a Baddie does not hold water. I do not know if he is bad or not, I still need to read his posts myself, which I will do in a bit here, but this evidence ou point to is fundamentally flawed and the fact that it has been pointed out before that this is the case and yet you are still beating that drum does not make me feel better about you.

I will, however, concede that the last two points are possible. But given all the other reasons you were already suspected,it is harder for me to dismiss this as you as being framed.

Shand Azureye wrote:Carmen was voted for by: Fane (6), Etain (9), Lyel (10), Eurolyvn (12), Miyuki (13), and Ameerah (14). My question to you guys -- have you at all changed your mind about Carmen, or are you prepared to vote for her again today?

11

At this point I would say I am prepared to vote for her again. But I will say this, the other people who were serious contenders for the last lynch should be considered this time around too, because if it does happen to be a frame up job, then most likely one of those others Is on team rumple. Those people would stand to benefit the most from framing Carmen.

@ The Djinn, I think it was probably not the wisest move to provide such a word tool in the thread. But I agree with your sentiment. I suspect it is easier for Team Rumple to steal our choices in the poll than we think, all it takes is some clever thinking on the part of Rumple as far as his word choice. I remain convinced this is likely why Carmen did not die.

Shand Azureye wrote:Here's another thought about Rumpel. I'm not sure at this point how useful this is, but hopefully it may lead us to something at some point in the game, if not today.

One way of looking at Rumpel's ability is that the mafia (team of four) has complete anonymity in the lynch polls. They can vote for each other, thereby distancing themselves from their evil teammates, say the magic word, and voila, Rumpel moves over all their votes to whoever they wish to lynch. Rumpel and his team doesn't even have to get the townies to say the magic word, they just say it themselves. In this light, it may be useful to go over all posts from day 3 and find out if an uncommon word was said by four players. It's a long shot, but worth trying, I think.

What this also means is we have to be careful looking back at voting records. Just because someone voted a mafia doesn't necessarily mean they are not mafia themselves.

Linki with Miyuki: I've meticulously read Carmen's posts on nights 2 and 3, but I don't see the role hint. I'll try to check again. But even if it's there, it still doesn't help us much in deciding about her affiliation.

12

Oh good god, I had not considered this possibility regarding Rumple's ability. We cannot count on the vote record telling us anything if this is the case... This makes it very hard for us.

Miyuki Lovelymoth wrote:Okay, see if anything jumps out at anyone, if it does, do you believe it? Just coincidence? If you don't believe it, then is it just a 2 night set-up, trying to appear to be a townie role? That seems risky to me, as it invites checking.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=148&p=19909#p19909
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=148&p=20142#p20142

I can see what you mean about the first one, but I don't get what you are seeing in the second one.

Regarding Finnian, something he said made me realize who that player is, and if I am correct I will say Finnian probably really is as busy as he claims. Of course, that does not mean he is a goody two shoes, either. Just sayin'

8

Bac Wunderelin wrote:During the Jorhan lynch she put words in my mouth and grouped me in with people making a particular argument (I believe the discussion was re your theories, Gob) when I had no part of that discussion. Then when asked to put her money where her mouth was and bring the proof, she couldn't do it, but still implied it was so.

Just slippery IMO

*19*

Bac Wunderelin wrote:

Miyuki Lovelymoth wrote:I believe you.

1

Thank You

Miyuki Lovelymoth wrote:After reading through Carmen's posts, particularly her night posts, I find myself hesitant to vote her.

I don't understand why she seemed to gloss over surviving her fate though. An innocent should proclaim her innocence. Vote shenanigans could easily have been the cause, a double win for the evil group. Destroy Bac, and let Carmen suffer the consequences.

Is she an innocent, distracted by RL, or a not so pure, also distracted by RL..... those night posts

(3)

I thought about this today, in the accounting department of the Pixie Dust factory (just becasue I'm Rajah doesn't mean I don't have to feed the l'il Pixies) and I do think it is rather obvious, Japanify me, kill me, and let a pawn take the blame.

So I will take your advice & reread her night posts.

Mainchin Ironbeast wrote:

Etain Royalskull wrote:

Mainchin Ironbeast wrote:Hard to believe the mafia would waste a lynch switch just to frame Carmen. What purpose does it serve? She was going to be lynched anyway and if CIv why would they care?

3

Wait, now I'm a tad more confused than before. Can't the Rumple team easily switch lynches if they are close?

3. (I remembered!!!)

Yes but why wouyld they if Carmen is civ?

4

A plethora of reasons, Mainchin. If we are distracted pointing the blame at Carmen, we are not noticing them. They also may think she is one of the SKs or the secret team. Maybe the secret team is the ones who did this atrocious act. I have seen a grouping of no-goodniks coast to victory on this very tactic. Clever no-goodniks have endless feats of legerdemain up their sleeves.

Need to eat and peruse the chain of posts at my leisure

*8*

Gobnait Gingeruite wrote:

Queran Gloomsoul wrote:Wait, aren't you Carmen? Are we doing third person all of a sudden?

11.

Linki - WIFOM always gets on my nerves, not because of those who use it, but just in general the sort of infinite possibilities of bluffs, double bluffs, tripple bluffs etc ad nauseum. As it stands I have 3-4 really locked in suspects, and those would be in no particular order Mainchin, Carmen, Finnian, and Gobnait

Still 11.

Yeah Carmen can't be the word, it's a proper name.

And I was feeling really good about our candidates until this post. I'm certainly a civ, and I have been reading Mainchin as very civ as well. This worries me that neither Carmen or Finnian is on Queran's (evil) team. That doesn't stop them from being SKs or on the other team though, so I guess it's ok.

All things considered, I'm still ok with choosing either of them, but could we please save a bunch of time and just lynch Queran? Are people really still reading our ongoing debate as civ-civ? I just don't see how it's possible, we've been at each other's throats now for going on 3 days. No one else sees his posts as un-genuine?

3

Rhinfrew Flowingrass wrote:

Queran Gloomsoul wrote:
Linki - Is that a trick question Rhinfrew?

No, it was not. If no satisfactory answer comes nigh, I shall plant a seed upon his name, and pray to Allah that a vineyard grows around his skeletal frame.

3

Rhinfrew Flowingrass wrote:As-salamu alaykum!

For a Djinn, my luck regarding prizes leaves something to be desired. If only I had a master who would wish goodness upon me (linguistic note: In the Lowland Djinn tongue, "goodness" roughly translates "boobies"). Thank you for the information Bac. I trust your tongue is not a lying one.

Now then:

No vote on Day 1. No Night kill on Night 1. No vote on Day 3. No Night kill on Night 3. Did you know the Middle Easterners invented this thing you call "algebra?" Mathematicians look for things called "patterns." I believe I have discovered one. Another linguistic note: "Algebra" comes from the word "al-jabr," which means "restoration." I believe it's time we restored justice.

But for the present, this Djinn will turn his attention to all the wondrous goodness in the world.

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