The Syndicate

Rough order for how confident I felt typing those things, from least to most:

Juliet
Delta
Golf
Charlie
Hotel
Alpha

Reasons why each player can be a civ:

Alpha - Has been the most active player, hasn't seemed disingenuous in their efforts, doesn't look like a teammate of Echo to me

Charlie - Sincere appearance at face value, consistently involved, is inquisitive and seems to have discernible direction in their effort, received opportunistic vote on Day 1 from Echo

Delta - Only suspicion stated apart from Echo was for Foxtrot, who was just killed. One cannot suggest there was an effort to set up a lynch there.

Golf - Seemed sincere when protesting Alpha's comments about people complaining about game mechanics and when answering questions/accusations

Hotel - Unafraid of providing reads without concern for the challenge of the setup or having fully caught up.

Juliet - Jumped into the rap gimmick after India's proposal of using a style which is harder for the disguiser to mimick, is making an effort to answer accusations

Echo is in the poll. [mention]sprityo[/mention], letting you know in case it's accidental. Otherwise, shenanigans.

Under the circumstances, I feel that process of elimination is more important than it usually would be in the typical heist game because we don't have the luxury of assessing players relative to each alignment flip. With that in mind, perhaps it would be a good idea for everyone to try to spell out why each remaining player could be read as a civilian.

The day phase is going to be a bit shorter apparently given the elongated night, so hopefully we can engage as much communication as possible before making a decision. We've no way of knowing what the ratios are presently, and I think we're better off exercising caution in all pursuits.

[mention]Delta[/mention], I'd like to hear more of your thoughts especially moving forward.

Juliet wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:56 am Well I feel silly. I just reread the Oracle and realize it reveals one player's role on death. What I thought it meant was it would reveal all players' roles (going forward) upon death.

I'm just going to go sit in a corner now...

I am willing to believe you misinterpreted the role. There is a little ambiguity in its wording. Given the interpretation you did have though, can you describe the expectation you had for it in the scenario where Echo was really the oracle? This is what is important: not merely your interpretation of what the role meant, but your perspective for why you felt Echo's claimed usage of it was good.

Juliet wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:49 am Why does this look really bad?

I liked your responses. What did you expect me to do that didn't feel "kinda sketchy". This accussation is trying to fit a narrative son. What would I have to gain as scum by saying these things? Do you feel that your responses were insufficient?

This relates to a question I'd asked you before as well. Was it the post you missed that Alpha brought up which changed your mind, or the total collection of responses Alpha gave to your accusations?

I like Hotel's content on this page. The combination of a confused approach to the game and to making reads with a willingness to give it a shot anyway and commit to those reads rings as genuine to me. I think it's the right mindset too. This is a challenging setup, but all we can do is give it our best shot with whatever reads we can develop under the circumstances.

Juliet wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:02 pm Thanks for pulling that quote. I missed that post originally.

Which quote did you miss, and what impact does this exchange have upon your read of Alpha?

Hotel wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:57 pm Bravo, regarding your interaction analysis of Charlie and Echo, I think it seems pretty unlikely that they're teammates.

Is there a particular moment you could point to which brings you to that conclusion?

I voted Kilo.

The Echo lynch might seem like the obvious choice, but it would be lame if we let the phase fetter away quietly while he gets lynched. Complacency is the opposite of ideal, especially in a game where the analytic power of the civilians is diminished by the mechanics. Let's use our time effectively. Tell me what you think of my interaction checks. Give your own reads. Say things about the mafia game. Say things in general. Escape from the harshness of cruel reality in this message board forum thread.

Why not take the 15th consecutive post?

Charlie is probably the biggest point of separation between the analytic appearance and my perspective of them at face value. I think technical evidence exists that they could be teamed with Echo, but I am more moved by the genuine appearance of their posts.

Based on those analyses, given the assumption that Echo is the mafia disguiser, here's a rainbow based both on those interactions and how players look to me at face value.

Alpha
Golf
Charlie
Delta
Hotel
Foxtrot
Juliet
Echo

Dead:
India
Kilo

Echo and Kilo things

He's dead already, but it's still valuable to see if we can glean anything of his alignment now.

Echo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:28 am

Kilo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:10 am*Foxtrot*

Why Foxtrot and not Delta?

Echo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:05 am

Alpha wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:39 am

Echo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:28 am

Kilo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:10 am*Foxtrot*

Why Foxtrot and not Delta?

Why Delta over Foxtrot?

Because we want to spell "dick" and not "fick".

Basically asking Kilo why he isn't helping to spell dick by voting Delta. As I've said, I don't care to analyze this deeply.

Nothing from Kilo about Echo.

Conclusion: not enough to make a meaningful judgment.

Echo and Juliet things

Echo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:23 pm

Juliet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:18 pm I am literally a cup of coffee.

Pleased to see y'all here.

I already like you better than the other one! jk

Chummy welcome.

Echo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:33 am

Juliet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:41 pm

Bravo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:33 pm On this page so far we have spelled CISPRITYOJIABB, which is one of my absolute favorite words

If we play our cards right, we can fill this game with lots of jibs.

Juliet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:43 pm Did I say jib? I meant gibe.

Echo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:57 pm I, for one, would like to see more jabs.

Like this jab...

That's what is known as a "segue", often misspelled "segway".

Thanks for that?

Echo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:39 am

Juliet wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:28 am What's up town, it's Dr. J,
I brought along my vote and I'm here to stay.
You ask me if I'd want to lynch the letter K?
I tell you "Yesssir! After an and MIA".
Why not instead lynch the letter G?
Or better yet, toss your votes on the AWOL D?
A letter that's the furthest from what our eyes see,
Just like the moon at its apogee.

Teammates or not, Juliet's rap does warrant applause.

Echo wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:45 am What was that crap about Juliet being Wilgy, and therefore town?

This one is rather juicy. I don't remember by whom or when that Wilgy thing was said, but I'll look into it after this exercise. Echo felt the need to tear down this notion though without specifically implicating anyone by name who promoted it. My instinct is to explore this as a distancing effort, but then I've also just recalled the no-reveals mechanic and how that muddies the waters. I'll see how the rest looks.

Juliet wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:54 am

India wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:11 am We could have waited for day two to pull that. Then the oracle would have a choice regarding who to reveal. How unfortunate.

And furthermore, since the oracle is vanilla so long as it lives, I would imagine that the bad guys would avoid killing it. And the good guys would avoid lynching it as well.

So, I don't really want to believe you, Echo. I wonder what your motive is. Bad guy, trying to avoid being lynched? Good guy, trying not to get lynched or killed? Or are you a genuine Oracle, though very short-sighted?

It's not short-sighted, it's a pretty, solid plan,
What would you have done if you were dealt that hand?
Do you have some thoughts on why he took this stand?
I think it's legit, and he/she's a cool little can.

If we accept the scenario where India is the oracle and Echo is the disguiser, this is a funny moment. Juliet protested India's protest of Echo's claim, or more accurately the strategy behind the claim. I'm not sure why Juliet felt the claim-on-day-1 plan was a good one.

Conclusion: it doesn't look great at face value. I'd call them compatible teammates.

Echo and Hotel things

I see no mention of Hotel in Echo's posts.

Hotel wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:50 pm Reads after quickly skimming the thread:

Town:
A
G
E

Mafia:
C
F

I'll vote to save G.

This is all I can find. Hotel liked Echo after a quick skim. Hotel qualified these as tone reads later. This isn't necessarily an issue, but it does beg expansion now. Please talk about these reads more if you could Hotel as they currently stand, even apart from just Echo.

Conclusion: the one data point doesn't inspire confidence. It doesn't terrify me either. This is inconclusive pending further dialogue.

The search function isn't handling single letters on their own well, like when people just call each other by their letters instead of the phonetic term. It's possible I am missing things given that, so yell at me if that's the case.

Echo and Golf things

Echo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:55 pm I see Foxtrot has also voted Charlie, currently tied with Golf at three votes apiece.

That's it for Echo. The mention of Golf appears circumstantial and means little to me.

I don't see any mentions of Echo in Golf's posts.

Conclusion: not enough to make a meaningful judgment.

Echo and Foxtrot things

Echo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:28 am

Kilo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:10 am*Foxtrot*

Why Foxtrot and not Delta?

Echo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:05 am

Alpha wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:39 am

Echo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:28 am

Kilo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:10 am*Foxtrot*

Why Foxtrot and not Delta?

Why Delta over Foxtrot?

Because we want to spell "dick" and not "fick".

This would be the reverse of what I just said about Delta. In this case if they're teammates, Echo is deflecting from Foxtrot to focus on Delta instead, for the sake of the dick joke. Again, I am hesitant to make much of this.

Echo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:29 pm Well, India, I guess we'll see where this gambit gets me. You may be right and you may be wrong.

Welcome Foxtrot - your avatar is the shit!

Generic welcome when Foxtrot joined the action.

Echo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:55 pm I see Foxtrot has also voted Charlie, currently tied with Golf at three votes apiece.

Echo felt the need to make this observation. I don't know what he meant to imply about Foxtrot if anything. Any forced mention wouldn't be great, and this bears that appearance.

Foxtrot wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:14 pm

Echo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:57 pm I, for one, would like to see more jabs.

Like this jab, at Alpha: take my vote until you can come up with a non-dick-related reason to vote someone that I like more than my vote for you. You don't have to waver from your excellent dick plan, but you can't hide behind it.

*vote Alpha*

This is dumb. Echo what word do you wanna spell?

This is everything in Foxtrot's posts about Echo that I can see. I don't know what the purpose of the post is.

Conclusion: some of this content appears forced on both sides. I could see it being a teammate interaction.

Echo and Delta things

Echo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:05 am

Alpha wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:39 am

Echo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:28 am

Kilo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:10 am*Foxtrot*

Why Foxtrot and not Delta?

Why Delta over Foxtrot?

Because we want to spell "dick" and not "fick".

Echo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:27 am

Alpha wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:18 am Unless the goal is to put vote pressure on Delta until they post?

That's what I thought the idea of the Delta vote was.

That's it. In some scenarios I might say the first post in the top pyramid isn't great because it would be a textbook example of distancing if Kilo is civilian (asking a civilian why they aren't voting for [teammate] to pin them for it later). However, I am hesitant to put a lot of credence in that here when the core inspiration is literally a dick joke.

Conclusion: not enough to make a meaningful judgment.

Echo and Charlie things

Echo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:08 am

Alpha wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:04 pm

Echo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:57 pm I, for one, would like to see more jabs.

Like this jab, at Alpha: take my vote until you can come up with a non-dick-related reason to vote someone that I like more than my vote for you. You don't have to waver from your excellent dick plan, but you can't hide behind it.

*vote Alpha*

I think Charlie is puffing themselves up to try to seem ultra-civ.

I think "let's stop making jokes and only focusing on killing criminals" is an easy feel-good stance to take in a mafia game, and in Charlie it seems forced.

Ok, well, I'm a letter of my word. That ios better. *vote Charlie*

After giving Alpha crap for the irrelevance of spelling dick, Alpha responded with more substantive content: suspicion of Charlie. Echo promptly jumped on that wagon. Well actually the timestamps show it as a 10 hour difference between the two posts in this quote, but it was still Echo's next post.

Echo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:55 pm Well, both. If I didn't agree, then it wouldn't be a reason for me to vote for him.

Echo reiterated his agreement with Alpha's assessment of Charlie. If nothing else, this represents a carefree attitude about voting a guy who took a lot of crap throughout day 1. I don't think that's typical bussing behavior.

It appears Charlie didn't mention Echo until this phase. I don't fault Charlie for thinking the oracle claim may have been driven by an intent to provide cover, because I also thought that to be a possibility. I'm surprised not to see any prior mentions though given that Echo moved against him, essentially in a piggyback motion alongside Alpha. I'd expect a civilian to protest that in some capacity, or to ask questions.

Conclusion: I'd say they're compatible as teammates, but this content is not indicative that they are teammates.

[mention]sprityo[/mention] did you happen to keep the Day 1 tally anywhere?

Echo and Alpha things

Echo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:05 am

Alpha wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:39 am

Echo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:28 am

Kilo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:10 am*Foxtrot*

Why Foxtrot and not Delta?

Why Delta over Foxtrot?

Because we want to spell "dick" and not "fick".

Echo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:27 am

Alpha wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:18 am Unless the goal is to put vote pressure on Delta until they post?

That's what I thought the idea of the Delta vote was.

Echo poked Kilo about his vote with spelling dick in mind (the product of Alpha). This doesn't tell me much. If anything, Echo working an irrelevant game activity into a relevant one by challenging votes might reflect decently on Alpha, as Alpha was the source of the irrelevance. That's rather reachy though.

Echo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:57 pm I, for one, would like to see more jabs.

Like this jab, at Alpha: take my vote until you can come up with a non-dick-related reason to vote someone that I like more than my vote for you. You don't have to waver from your excellent dick plan, but you can't hide behind it.

*vote Alpha*

I think Alpha made himself a bit of an easy target early on with the dick-spelling crusade, and in that regard Echo may have taken the bait here. That'd be a nice look.

This whole exchange looks like Echo trying to explain himself to someone who would actually need an explanation, as in someone not teamed with him.

Conclusion: I don't think they look like teammates.

Given that, I am going to squeeze Echo's corpse for all the juiciness it might have to offer.

I'm acting under the assumption that India was the oracle and exposed Echo as the disguiser. It might not be totally kosher, but it's in the thread: India's one dead post is looks like a confirmation to me.

Poll doesn't work on my phone. Voting Echo whenever it lets me.

This provides a great solving opportunity. Echo is the disguiser and his teammates may be identifiable in his posts (including or not including Kilo) It'll be muddier than usual perhaps given the no flip dynamic. I'll take a look a bit later.

lol excellent

India wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:35 pm It appears that I missed an entire page before posting that.

Rest in peace, K. Those who lynched you are probably scum. I see nothing in your posts worth the animosity.

Number of times you mentioned "K" or "Kilo" prior to the deadline: zero

If you felt this way, why did you wait until after the lynch had been finalized to voice it?

Reference point after EOD1:

Alpha 56
Foxtrot 38
Bravo 34
India 28
Golf 21
Echo 20
Charlie 17
Hotel 17
sprityo 14
Juliet 11
Kilo 8
Spacedaisy 2
dunya 1
Kylemii 1

About to see Star Wars and I don't know if I'll be back for the deadline. I'm staying on Kilo. Reference my posts to find the reasoning.

Every time I type Juliet in this game, my fingers try to jump to the "s" at the end.

Juliet wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:28 am What's up town, it's Dr. J,
I brought along my vote and I'm here to stay.
You ask me if I'd want to lynch the letter K?
I tell you "Yesssir! After an and MIA".
Why not instead lynch the letter G?
Or better yet, toss your votes on the AWOL D?
A letter that's the furthest from what our eyes see,
Just like the moon at its apogee.

Juliet, why do you feel it is prudent to prioritize an MIA lynch over a K lynch specifically?

Re: Juliet, I've appreciated that the rapping exists at all. In light of the discussion of ways to make life harder for the disguiser, such as adopting a distinctive style which will be more difficult for an interloper to replicate, the rapping method seems like an applicable effort.

I can at least agree that the hunting effort contained within the rapping is limited.

Alpha wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:06 pm Placing my vote on Kilo basically to see what happens. I'm interested in what reactions might come out of a 3-way tie here.

Do you have any perspective to share on the suspicions I stated about Kilo?

Golf wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:05 pm No unfortunately I do not.

Is that a product of not knowing what to do with what they've said, not having caught up, or something else?

Golf wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:59 pm

Bravo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:40 pm

Golf wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:19 pmPlease explain.

My internet was down for the better part of the day yesterday, which is why I was absent. I'm casting a vote for Charlie.

Why Charlie?

Self preservation. Plus I know I am civilian so that means it's entirely possible that the bandwagon formed on me to protect Charlie.

Do you have any reads on the people voting for you?

The poll is wacked up right now. It shows 3-3-2, but the names I see should make it 3-3-3.

Echo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:08 pm I think it's less likely the Mafia will kill me because they don't want info out there. Also, it was a little spontaneous. Tell me about a better way for more strategic utility.

The spontaneity I won't argue. The first thing you said there is my concern. If that comes to fruition the role is useless, right?

Echo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:55 pm Why not now?

I question the strategic utility and the sensibility of blurting the claim as you did.

Kilo wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:15 am I'm ready and willing to spell out dick.

Kilo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:09 am Well fuck those guys then eh?

Kilo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:10 am*Foxtrot*

It's a small point because entry posts from a sock can only be judged at face value. Kilo was gleeful to dive right into "fuck around" mode when given the opportunity (first by Alpha re: spelling dick and second by Alpha identifying those who hadn't checked in).

Kilo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:10 pm

Bravo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:52 am

Kilo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:10 am*Foxtrot*

Hey Kilo, talk to me about what this vote means to you. Share your deepest, most personal feelings about this vote. Let your emotions run free over me. Or just tell me what you'd like for it to accomplish.

This is a vote that is near and dear to my heart. It's meaning is metaphysical.

My question was a serious one. Instead of answering it, Kilo played into the goofy language I elected to use to ask it.

Kilo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:30 pm Now that I think about it, I don't like C voting G very much.

You complain about ties, while turning a X way tie into an X+1 way tie? Why? For everything to dislike about ties, this is worse. For everything to like about ties, this is no better.

C, tell me more about your vote. I have theories.

This one seems rather bunk to me. Charlie commented on the voting spread and then noted that there is still plenty of time. The alternative assertion here would be that Charlie would have then had to force himself to vote for whoever among those already with a vote, and I don't think that's a reasonable product of what Charlie said. Kilo's accusation is based on a dubious notion of inconsistency/hypocrisy and I'm not into it.

Charlie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:41 pm That's fair. As I said, my main reason for voting then was that I wanted to move my vote off of Alpha. Now that Golf is back I feel a little bad about it, but unfortunately it's now a tie with me so I am incentivized to keep my vote on G unless something more promising comes up. So, now that there's been a little bit more discussion, do you have any suggestions? I don't, honestly.

I suspect Kilo. I'll say why in more substantive terms shortly.

Alpha wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:40 pm I am concerned. I know this is day one. Ordinarily, for example, if four players vote for Charlie and he flips bad, conclusions can be drawn about those 4 players regardless of how strong their convictions were.

In this game there are no flips. So the only thing we can use to judge people's character is their reasons for voting whomever.

This dynamic definitely poses a unique challenge, but I don't think we're quite so handicapped as that. Any post can be judged in the ways they might be judged in any other game. The feedback on those judgments (corrective or affirmative) won't happen, but we can still make them. Also, as India has discussed: the disguiser role appears very powerful but it also provides angles of investigation. Whoever has that role may have to play this game in a way that does not come naturally to them, by impersonation in addition to whatever other usual strategic intentions. That's something that can be hunted.

Golf wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:19 pmPlease explain.

My internet was down for the better part of the day yesterday, which is why I was absent. I'm casting a vote for Charlie.

Why Charlie?

Foxtrot wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:16 pm

Bravo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:16 pm Kilo, I hereby accuse you of placing a flier vote on a non-checker-inner for the sake of appearing loose with your vote and not for the sake of doing anything productive with it.

Bravo, I nearby accuse you of being cute.

What say you to these charges?

You're nearby?

Echo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:03 am We only get information if the Oracle gets nightkilled. As information-starved letters, the clear path is to out the Oracle so that they can be nightkilled. I am the Oracle.

I don't get it. Why claim that right now?

People I wouldn't vote for today: Alpha, India, Juliet

Bravo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:10 pm I've a theory. I want Charlie to answer to your assertion as well as Alpha's before I proceed.

I'd said this in response to the assertion that Charlie's posh language was a concern. My theory was just that he was adopting that kind of language for the sake of it, i.e. for fun. Charlie's comment corroborates that more or less:

Charlie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:12 pm Ok lemme just go ahead and say I'mma not do that fancy posh verbiage heavy style. At first I was thinkin I was gonna do a different style every post and just keep changin' up the way I speak, but thinking about it now in light of india's thoughts, that's probably not the right choice here and would just make it easier for the disguiser. So I'll try to settle into a more normal style.

Alpha and India, I kind of get why you voted for me, but I wasn't trying to hide behind the style (well kind of in that I think it's fun to see how long one's sock puppet can last without being obviously identified as one's own style) I was just having a bit of fun with it. Alpha, I don't actually think you're particularly suspicious after all as you are one of the most active so far and your jokeyness is genuine. Thus I'll change my vote, not to a non-poster but to someone who has at least checked in but has not yet participated much. IIRC Golf fits that description.

I'm not thrilled though at this, Charlie. After stepping away from your Alpha accusation, you defaulted to the low-poster option (specifically the one who checked in). The strategy isn't necessarily a bad one, but it's better left for late in a day when other conversations have not produced a more substantial suspicion. I'm not sure you did much to encourage that conversation.

Kilo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:16 pm

Bravo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:16 pm Kilo, I hereby accuse you of placing a flier vote on a non-checker-inner for the sake of appearing loose with your vote and not for the sake of doing anything productive with it.

This is the only part of the statement I disagree with. To what end are you accusing me of doing this?

It is an accusation near and dear to my heart.

Really, the assertion is that care-free voting behavior is sometimes associated with a civilian mindset, and it's an easy way to try to grab credit. Generally even that kind of flier vote has purpose though. In truth there can be some measure of purpose in your vote, even for a non-poster. Would you say it had purpose?