The Syndicate

Re: Skinner, the Otto track was obviously really bad, but I don't think it's indicative of him being scum. Making a bad night action is congruent with memeing the whole day and obviously not really giving a shit about the game. The world where Skinner is lying about being a tracker is a world where he was trying to fish for a counterclaim from the real tracker, and in that scenario he'd try to play it as powerwolfy as possible to force the real tracker to out or create chaos with the cred he had. The only thing that gives me pause is that it sort of reminds me of JPIC's cop claim from Radiohead mafia, where he said he was cop under pressure and that he investigated a really obvious townie as innocent N1. There it was a mafia trying to get by through refuge in audacity. But I think that context is sufficiently different from the context here that I don't think it's a repeat of the same thing.

At any rate I think it'll become very obvious if Skinner is lying or not over time so there's no point making a fuss about it today.

Hugh I know you have a townread on CBG, so I'm interested to here your thoughts on my case on him above. How fakeable do you think the towntells you picked up from him are?

Otto Mann wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:20 am I started doubting my CBG read towards EoD. He just seemed to take the foot off the gas after a getting a few town leans and there were a few posts that just felt forced. I'd have to ISO, but even to start today he posted "I don't think so, Otto", I asked him to clarify and he was online, but then he ghosts.
Feels bad man

Yeah, I have a not-so-secret scumread on CBG that's been boiling up through the course of today. (Burns and Otto having the same progression on him makes me feel better about them.) I was going to wait for him to respond to my question about why he left his vote on Bart, but it's been nearly 12 hours so I'm just going to out with it.

CBG has a good entrance in his reaction test on Krusty at #64. A few people townread him for it, myself included, and I think after that early surge of townreads he started to drop off. In #143 he discredits/shades Flanders' read on Burns without explaining why he feels that way, or giving a take on what it makes Flanders. We now know Flanders to be town, and that read to be made in good faith.

In #147 he baldly accuses me of wolfing, but 3 hours later, in #176, he casts a naked vote on Skinner. I don't understand or see his progression on me. If it was a serious accusation, why is he voting Skinner? If it was a reaction test, what did he get from it and what's his take on me? (He had no issues with outing his reaction test on Krusty along with specifying what he thought of it.)

Something similar happens again near EOD. In #407 he states that he scumreads Burns for having suspicious posts, but in #416 he places a naked vote on Bart. At the time, iirc, Burns had a serious wagon on him - so it doesn't make sense to me that he would hop on a vanity wagon instead of trying to get his scumread exed.

The only substantive post he has today is #467, accepting Grampa's derp clear. I don't like that at all - that derp clear was pretty weak, and Grampa himself has said that we shouldn't accept it.

I think CBG has been laying low and making really short or offtopic posts so the last thing people remember him doing is his strong entrance on D1. His progressions don't make sense to me, and always end with him hiding on a vanity wagon where he doesn't have to take responsibility for the results of any exe. There's no accountability to his reads or his votes.

[VOTE: CBG] aubergine

Principal Skinner wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:45 am

Otto Mann wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:20 pm Deets on the track @Principal Skinner

you my good sir did not visit anyone

why would you track otto of all people??

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:36 am

Allison Taylor wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:29 am

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:21 am The second evaporated the second Flanders spewed himself clear.

This is not true. You clearly indicated that you thought Flanders was scum well after he claimed Mac and posted on his main. I called you out on it here.

What you linked doesn't say what you're saying it says.

When you called me out on it, I replied with a clear reason why I wasn't 100% convinced that he was lock town. That doesn't mean he was still a strong wolf read. It just means I saw a world where he could be a wolf by going "just kill me before the host does, but by the way it'd be smarter if you killed someone else..." (granted, at Burns' behest)

Saying that Flanders spewed himself clear means that you are pretty convinced he was town.

Burns you've been getting on Hugh's case for having no reads but I can't tell what reads you have other than scumreading him. Where are you at in the game right now? What's your take on CBG?

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:21 am The second evaporated the second Flanders spewed himself clear.

This is not true. You clearly indicated that you thought Flanders was scum well after he claimed Mac and posted on his main. I called you out on it here.

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:53 am He doesn't seem like someone remotely interested in DOING anything about that game state other than whine. He shows up and throws a vote. Gives basically no reasons for the wagon to go over so we can assess the quality of that vote. Spends the night phase so upset by the bad chop that he apparently never looked at the thread. Comes back and renews his vote again without putting anything behind it.

How could he look any MORE complacent about the game state?

Your reasoning here is almost suspiciously bad.

It has been 3 hours since the start of the day and he is already pushing who he thinks is scum. I have no idea what about that behavior makes you think he is being complacent. If we had exed Flanders you would be pushing Milhouse today with the exact same logic.

How has Flanders and Milhouse' flips and Skinner's claim not made you change the way you are looking at this game at all?

You guys need to re-evaluate the way we are looking at the game. We spent D1 trying to exe slankers because we thought the mafia was coasting. We now have two green flips and one tracker claim with no counterclaim among their number. Flanders died telling us that it didn't make sense to exe slankers and that we should be looking out for the vultures preying on them. I don't buy your case on Hugh and your stubbornness in trying to push him rather than figure out anything else about the game is starting to make me doubt my townread of you.

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:44 am Allison, can you explain to me what you are thinking is so great about 20 minute Hugh?

The ONLY thing I can say for him is that if he is a slank wolf he has to be among the most brazen ever, but I've been burned before by "no wolf could slank this hard, their team would kick their ass" before and I am really opposed to going out like that again.

So what, Hugh Jass decided he was going to slank his way to victory as a wolf, peeked into the thread and saw 0 votes on him and a consensus on exeing some random lurking townie, and decided "now is the time I'm going to burst into the thread with a strong scumread and start pushing it"? I don't buy that story. He seemed pissed off and unhappy with the town consensus and tried hard to push an alternative exe (Gramps). He opens the next day saying it was a terrible elimination. He doesn't feel like someone complacent or content with the D1 gamestate to me.

[mention]Comic Book Guy[/mention]

You had to know that Bart was not gonna get exed yesterday. It was basically not voting. But you vote Bart over Milhouse despite saying Milhouse is suspicious, in a situation where the wagons were close enough that Milhouse could have not gotten exed? What happened to your scumread on Burns?

CBG can you talk me through your vote on Bart yesterday?

Allison Taylor wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:39 pm Here's where I'm at right now:

I think Marge is town. I think Burns is town. Grampa's recent posts have made me doubt my scumread on him a bit. I feel like the thread is descending into an orgy of people nitpicking stuff about each other's posts and/or getting super defensive and lashing out when their own posts gets nitpicked. I think there's a decent number of people active lurking, eating popcorn, and watching the town tear each other into shreds.

I am currently more in favor of putting pressure on inactive people to contribute. I do not agree with Burns that Milhouse coming in to post some random read salad without any explanations or serious pushes is a townie entrance. I'm am concerned that Skinner and Hugh are still AWOL. I am also concerned that Ned Flanders has had three posts the entire day, scumread Burns early on, and then dropped a vote on him without any announcement, after Marge pushed Burns. (If you check the poll you will see that Flanders voted Burns after Marge and Homer voted, even though his suspicion on Burns purportedly came long before.) I do not know what Flanders' progression on the game is or why he is drive by voting Burns at a very convenient timing without saying anything.

So those four are my POE. I trust Otto, Marge, Burns, Grumple and Krusty. I am willing to accept Marge + Homer's testimony that they know who Bart is and that his behavior this game strongly indicates that he is town. I started off with an early Lisa townread, but she has since fallen off. So my 5 townreads + tentatively Bart is my townpool for today. Everyone else who isn't directly in the POE or in my townpool is somewhere in the middle.

From here:

Milhouse has flipped town. Ned has flipped town. Skinner has claimed tracker. Hugh has improved a lot towards EOD1. He had a burst of energy that I think is townie. Before he came in the game was moving pretty soundly towards a D1 town lurker exe. If Hugh is scum planning to take it easy and coast throughout the game then it makes no sense for him to suddenly turn into a power wolf 5 seconds before town exes LHF. He seemed unhappy with the gamestate then and he seems unhappy with the gamestate now.

Before he died Flanders was pretty unhappy with the thread consensus of pressuring/voting lurkers. The flips and claims have proven that to be correct. I am looking for scum in the people who were trying to shade or discredit lurkers without taking responsibility for the exe yesterday.

Otto Mann wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:22 am

Allison Taylor wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:20 am I'm honestly not sure what to do with this gamestate.

There's a lot of people who are gigantic question marks to me, mostly because they've dropped off severely in posting, and I only have one firm scumread.

And that's?

Grampa, for reasons explained earlier.

I'm honestly not sure what to do with this gamestate.

There's a lot of people who are gigantic question marks to me, mostly because they've dropped off severely in posting, and I only have one firm scumread.

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:40 pm

Allison Taylor wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:38 pm Grampa how did you not realize that this spews Flanders town like fifty times over?

Because after asking us to chop him before the mod-kill he told Burns the best move is to chop someone else, and to me that seems suboptimal for town and better for wolves.

Who did he tell Burns to exe?

I don't understand why you're scumcasing someone who has been spewed town and is going to be modkilled shortly.

Grampa how did you not realize that this spews Flanders town like fifty times over?

Krusty the Clown wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:06 pm Something about this sentence just doesn't sit well with me...it's borderline TMI. Slankers/lurkers certainly need to be addressed at some point, but RD1 it feels an easy way to push a mislynch.

That's not what TMI means - TMI would be me being correct about my accusation of active lurkers and knowing that they are scum because they are in fact scum.

How do you propose we address slankers who post just enough to avoid being subbed out, but not enough to actually contribute? Because I think the thread is in a pretty chaotic state right now, lots of people are pointing fingers at each other, and that is a perfect atmosphere for mafia to lurk in. Therefore I think mafia are going to be very incentivized to slank out D1, especially when they have the cover of "this is a meme game/I'm just staying in character" to hide behind.

Here's where I'm at right now:

I think Marge is town. I think Burns is town. Grampa's recent posts have made me doubt my scumread on him a bit. I feel like the thread is descending into an orgy of people nitpicking stuff about each other's posts and/or getting super defensive and lashing out when their own posts gets nitpicked. I think there's a decent number of people active lurking, eating popcorn, and watching the town tear each other into shreds.

I am currently more in favor of putting pressure on inactive people to contribute. I do not agree with Burns that Milhouse coming in to post some random read salad without any explanations or serious pushes is a townie entrance. I'm am concerned that Skinner and Hugh are still AWOL. I am also concerned that Ned Flanders has had three posts the entire day, scumread Burns early on, and then dropped a vote on him without any announcement, after Marge pushed Burns. (If you check the poll you will see that Flanders voted Burns after Marge and Homer voted, even though his suspicion on Burns purportedly came long before.) I do not know what Flanders' progression on the game is or why he is drive by voting Burns at a very convenient timing without saying anything.

So those four are my POE. I trust Otto, Marge, Burns, Grumple and Krusty. I am willing to accept Marge + Homer's testimony that they know who Bart is and that his behavior this game strongly indicates that he is town. I started off with an early Lisa townread, but she has since fallen off. So my 5 townreads + tentatively Bart is my townpool for today. Everyone else who isn't directly in the POE or in my townpool is somewhere in the middle.

Marge Simpson wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:30 am probably didn't kill the squirrel

Bart Simpson
Otto Mann
Marge Simpson
Homer Simpson

[VOTE: Mr Burns ] aubergine

Talk to me about your read on Homer? Is it just because he had meta on Bart?

Re: Bart's push on me. No, I'm not twisting your words. I interpreted them in the most commonsensical way. Others have said the same thing, that they found the discrepancy odd. I think you are going out of your way to try to find nits to pick at the point where you say that you found me waiting for Skinner townie but suspect that Skinner is my scumbuddy. Do you scumread Skinner? Why would you jump to that conclusion?

Marge: I don't think Lisa's read is TMI any more than any early game read is TMI. I thought the squabbling between the two of them based on getting/not getting a joke was pretty silly, and the stubborn/indignant way they pursued the convo was a good look. (Town are more likely to get stuck on something small and inconsequential early, scum tend to want to appease people and go along with the flow.) Lisa coming in and (successfully) breaking up the argument while calling both of them town matched my sentiments on the topic, and she could have easily let the argument spiral if she was scum. I townread her for that.

All the issues you have with each other look like personality/playstyle clashes more than anything. Otto is used to pushing people to sort them, and Burns thinks that's throwing shade. Otto sees Burns as being defensive, and Burns sees himself as expressing annoyance that he's being condescended to.

Burns vs Otto feels like two townies squabbling with each other.

I mean you were 100% chilling and making old man jokes earlier but one vote from Marge and you're suddenly very concerned about Skinner's memes.

Why were you kinda coasting by and fluffing but suddenly sit up straight and start generating content when someone naked votes you?

[VOTE: Grampa Simpson] aubergine

Beetlejuice + "why me?" is a wolf.

I was about to lay down suspicion on Skinner for going all in on the "I am just memeing" angle but he says he's gotten it out of his system and is going to generate real content soon so I'll take a rain check on that until he fails to follow up.

Otto Mann wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:58 pm C- It's not so much the current gamestate, more the thinking that a lot of scum have a hard time entering the thread and subsequently end up a very low poster early game as they struggle to find an opening that feels comfortable.

This is not true of most Syndicate wolves. You will catch the occasional one with an awkward opening but many Syndicate scum players have no issue with power wolfing and there are very few chronic slankers here.

I like Grumple's posting this page. Not that I agree with his read on Otto, but the way he approached it and broke down Otto's post that he thought was player salad, moved onto a series of probing questions and then backed off after a bit to stop himself from tunnelling was a pretty townie approach.

Bart Simpson wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:49 pm

Allison Taylor wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:21 pm [VOTE: Bart Simpson] aubergine

For stealing my saxophone! ...And for telling us to post less after telling us to post more.

Otto Mann wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:49 am Heyyyyy. Otto might be blotto but Krusty smells like moldy cheese and awkward entrances.
Whoaaaaa

I'm not sure about that one Otto, I think Krusty's entrance is okay, and I think OMGUS is slightly town indicative.

I am sure my intention was different than saying to post less and i wonder why are you twisting my words?
Until i fully catch up
[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

My point was that "everyone do something, don't just slank and fluff!" is a very contradictory sentiment from "hey everyone let's chill out and post meaningless stuff until EOD!"

I'm feeling good about Otto and slightly better about Krusty (and I was already a little better than null on him). I'm taking "coming into the thread purely to make Simpsons references" as a null behavior right now, because a lot of people have done that. I think I like Burns' excuse more than Skinner's - having account issues is something that is very rare for mafia members to lie about, especially in a game as chill and laidback as this one.

Otto Mann wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:22 pm

Allison Taylor wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:18 pm And Otto and Marge can answer that too.

Posts with the sole purpose of making an excuse are wolfy af.

How are you taking his entrance?

Oh, I didn't see it that way. I thought it was a reference to the Steamed Hams scene, not an excuse for not posting.

And Otto and Marge can answer that too.

Actually I want to know why Krusty thought Skinner's pop in was wolfy over, like, Homer's or Grumple's.

Krusty the Clown wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:12 pm

Principal Skinner wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:16 pm Egads I got so busy and now my roast is ruined!

Unless.....

Am I the only one reading this as a wolfy pop in?

Quite a few people have made this kind of "pop in, say something in character, pop out" post. I think it's just part and parcel of the game's theme that encourages people to do that at the start. It's wolfy if he keeps doing it and doesn't contribute to the game.

Otto Mann, it was more of the context and timing of the post that made me like it. I'm a little confused about your read on Bart. You criticize his posts for having bad tone and being fluffy, but you're null on him overall, just because he has a lot of those (bad) posts? Why?

Otto Mann wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:45 pm

Allison Taylor wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:33 pm Oh, so you aren't nanook. Given that I thought you were though, the two of you seem like you'd click together. And I actually think OMGUS is town indicative because town is more likely to feel indignant about being wrongly voted and/or suspect that they're being falsely accused by mafia. Scum is like, "well, they caught me, how can I get them off my back?". Obviously it's not a super strong read since it's so easy to fake OMGUS/indignation, but in a vacuum it's slightly townie and nothing I'd scumread someone off.

I posted that before reading that Comic Book Guy was just fishing for reactions though.

I like bait votes.
CBG and Krusty both seemed like decent odds at town, was hoping for a wolfy entrance vote from one of the slank.
C'est la vie

Yeah, Lisa coming in and going "both of you are town" was what made me townread her. Her entrance felt pretty comfortable too. What do you think about Bart?

Oh, so you aren't nanook. Given that I thought you were though, the two of you seem like you'd click together. And I actually think OMGUS is town indicative because town is more likely to feel indignant about being wrongly voted and/or suspect that they're being falsely accused by mafia. Scum is like, "well, they caught me, how can I get them off my back?". Obviously it's not a super strong read since it's so easy to fake OMGUS/indignation, but in a vacuum it's slightly townie and nothing I'd scumread someone off.

I posted that before reading that Comic Book Guy was just fishing for reactions though.

Okay, slightly out of character post because I couldn't think of a good way to stay in character while writing this.

Lisa's probably my strongest townread right now. (And not just because she's my best friend.) I've got good feelings about Comic Book Guy and Marge. I would probably townread Otto more if I didn't suspect he was Nanook, in which case this entrance is probably totally NAI for him.

[VOTE: Bart Simpson] aubergine

For stealing my saxophone! ...And for telling us to post less after telling us to post more.

Otto Mann wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:49 am Heyyyyy. Otto might be blotto but Krusty smells like moldy cheese and awkward entrances.
Whoaaaaa

I'm not sure about that one Otto, I think Krusty's entrance is okay, and I think OMGUS is slightly town indicative.

Bart Simpson wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:48 am Let's make a contest, who posts less and meaningless wins at Eod

Did you take my saxophone again?! Ugh, I'm not going to Lisa's house any more. You better not have put gum down the bell again!

...say, wait a minute. Weren't you the one who was telling us to do stuff earlier? What's with the sudden change in attitude?

Has anyone seen my saxophone? I left it somewhere around here, but then I got distracted by a game of anagrams and can't find it again.