The Syndicate

I’ll try and be back before eod but no guarantees. Reception is bad up here.

Marmot out.

Epignósis wrote: ↑Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:38 pm Addendum to my Vompatti breakdown-

He voted both days, though neither time did he announce his vote in the thread. Day 1 he voted for Marmot. Day 2 he voted for DrWilgy. Are the host posts for the polls reflective of actual vote order? I can't tell if there is anything telling from that in regard to alignment. Again, brick wall.

They are not, and I know his vote for me on day one was well before the eod flurry, it was there most of the day. His vote for wilgy was also first, but I don’t know by how much.

One thing I’ll note about goldens ‘soft defenses’ is that they are also meta-truths that anyone could say but appear helpful, so they reinforce for me the gap between goldens image and content.

Epi, I’m in the same boat as glorf. I like reading people as town rather than bad, and I think I have good reasons to read you and glorf good from virtually the very beginning.

So if you’re saying ‘who excluding vompatti’ the answer is dom (there was the ‘just saving myself’ dynamic yesterday that doesn’t preclude it), but dom feels sincere to me and it’s still vompatti by a very long margin to me.

I disagree that meta doesn’t matter. We chose these socks, we didn’t get them handed to us. You have made a good fist of Epignosis, glorfindels done great, I’ve been my best marmot, dom reads as dom, Mac and jay were good facsimiles, and some people felt wilgy was spot on as well.

The gap between the person who wanted to be golden and what they actually are is meaningful in my opinion. Golden is going to be a harder sock to pull off if they roll bad.

I’m climbing again today, so I won’t be around much.

Glorfindel, look at Wilgy's posts in which he decides how to place me. They come after I've given the same reads he does, but all of his reads on me are meta-crap instead of actual content. I did say this at the time. He didn't just have the same reads as me while having me down low, he never even engaged with that fact. Each of my reads had an explanation. Mine was the first of his that had any. So no, it doesn't work both ways.

It also didn't help that he was playing a gimmick. I thought he was Rico, someone who would care about that stuff. If I'd known it was Long Con, I'd have felt differently.

Feeling great about Glorfindel again, and let me just say, go read my post where I gave my reasons for each of the three of you being town, and if you're worried think about the motives behind those statements. The four of us are the four who are trying. Yes, if we're wrong, we're screwed. But to me, there has to be an active reason to see Golden or Vompatti as good before I'd lynch any of the three of you at this point.

And I have to say, the thing that pisses me most off was re-reading that comment from golden about wilgy. I should have realised that was not a team.

Voting golden for now - I've thought this is a baddie from the off, he's been in every team combination I've had.

Please just don't mistake my sudden influx of content for me being particularly bothered about the outcome I'm still Marmot after all.

This is probably lylo, so I'm going to start shedding roleplay and get down to business. Jay cares about balance, and his ration of baddies to civilians in a vanilla-heavy closed setup is 2 to 8 (see Jay's balance worksheet), so I think we can assume two baddies.

There aren't so many people trying in this game. We're lucky everyone who is gone is vanilla, but there is no guarantee everyone is vanilla. Perhaps some people actually have a clue based on abilities. If so, it's time to claim. I don't.

I'll eat my hat if Epignosis is bad. OK, no, I won't stoop to hat eating, but I'd be very surprised. I gave him a free pass to lynch a townie Jay and he attempted to start a counterwagon on me instead. That's heavy town stuff.

I think Dom's behaviour and discussion at end of game yesterday indicates good, but I'd be willing to hear an argument to the contrary. Seriously though, Dom is about the only person other than me who has really tried to solve the game.

I want people to note this about me...

I'm asking people questions that they aren't responding to.
I'm offering lynch options that people aren't discussing.
Sometimes I feel like the only person who is trying to solve the game.

Glorfindel, Vompatti, Golden. I don't think we will win unless the baddies are within that group.

I should have lynched golden twice now, but I have to admit I fell into the trap of believing DrWilgy was Rico and I judged him on that basis. If I'd realised it was Long Con I would have had a different reaction.

Golden

Zero meaningful content, despite picking golden. I haven't liked this from the start and still don't now. Why pick a Supatown player if you don't intend to Supatown? The lack of content *feels* like someone who is laying low. But I admit I get this feeling in the same way I did with DrWilgy, and he was good. Both were phoning it in. Golden is worse.

I'm not kicking myself for lynching DrWilgy, but I'm still annoyed I'm gone off voting golden twice now.

Vompatti

Vompatti has successfully contributed nothing of meaning to the game. This is accurate roleplaying, however I'd like to see Vompatti shed his skin and say something meaningful today. His vote for me on day one would be a better look if I knew when it happened. His vote for Wilgy happened early and was fairly meaningless. There's nothing here to indicate he's good, I want him to step it up.

Glorfindel

I was secretly hoping Glorfindel was nightkilled because it would eliminate my tinfoil read. I thought that if he wasn't bad, they might kill him to set me up. That didn't happen, and now I have to work through my feelings.

I liked Glorfindel's early content because he was one of the few pointing out that we needed to focus on substance, not meta. Almost everyone has been focused on meta, and I don't think it has no place in the conversation, but it's place is certainly not at front and centre.

I really disliked Glorfindel's content in the last phase of day 2.

First there is this post:

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:13 am

Mármot wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:28 am Voting [VOTE: golden] aubergine

Mármot wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:23 pmnoone asks for a supatown role without intending to deliver if town.

Guaranteed bad guy right there.

Besides, I liked dom's entry just then. That's the dom I know and trust. Town dom. Scratching dom from the list today. I trust dom, epignosis and glorfindel. That's a good town core right there.

I appreciate the trust, master Marmot. I also appreciate the sentiment from Wilgy, and Epi, and everyone else who townreads me. You are all good friends. But I worry that one of you is a wolf in sheep's clothing, buddying me. I don't want to get caught up in a town core this early in the game. It might end with me being swayed, and I don't trust all of your town core just yet. It's only day two.

Vompattï wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:43 pm I checked myself last night. Turns out I'm good.

Stop pretending to be me, k? Marmots are expensive in Finland.

Wilgy's 'case' on me is selective and terrible. He's doing a really good job of roleplaying ricochet. I pretty much hate that his rainbow list is literally identical to mine and yet he sees me as bad. That's some disingenuous shit right there.

Golden/Wilgy. Game solved

MacDougall, do you like origami?

Is disingenuous bad? And why? I don't disagree with your reads, but the two scumreads here are easy choices. Sorry, but I'm not ready to condemn the low off-topic poster and the rainbow lister. They are easy targets that don't talk.

If a big talker was scum, who would it be? And what do you think of Vompatti or Macdougall?

Even at the time, this made me uneasy. Glorfindel is saying he won't trust my list but not saying who he doesn't trust or why and not engaging in my reasons for reading them as town. This was the first time I had any doubt in my town read of glorf.

I note the two extracts I've highlighted in red for comparison to later posts.

I didn't answer those questions at the bottom at the time, because even then my answer was that if one of those big talkers was bad it would be glorf, and that Vompatti and MacDougall were targets that were absolutely just as easy as Golden and Wilgy, but that I was actually providing active reasons for golden and wilgy being bad. As for 'is disingenuous bad' - yes. If you're lying about your read, you are bad, and frankly this question doesn't even need answering because it's ridiculous. Literally in saying disingenuous I'm saying 'Wilgy is lying about his read of me' - I don't understand how the question 'is this bad' even makes sense. It's meaningless. Anyway, that was just an initial feeling... it felt like glorf was being oppositional for the sake of being oppositional. Anyway, that's just the start of my point...

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:18 am I think I know who is under Dom's skin suit and I think they are town in that light.

I will vote for Golden.

[VOTE: Golden] aubergine

Not but two posts and five minutes later, Glorfindel votes for someone that he has just said he is 'not ready to condemn'.

Then, towards the end of the phase, we got this (note, Glorfindel's vote is still on Golden)...

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:41 pm I have arrived with 5 minutes to spare, my friends

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:43 pm I will not argue with this tie.

Earlier in the day he criticised be for these two being the targets and wanted to widen things. But with a pretty close thing on the table, his vote on golden and me clearly saying my vote was up in the air... he's completely comfortable with the tie. And then this:

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:46 pm Oh, this isn't a tie. My apologies.

I am not really seeing why the good doctor's disingenuity makes him a baddie, but I trust 2/3 of the people that want to lynch him. I guess this was fated.

Wilgy had three votes, glorfindel's vote was on golden with two, and I was there saying I wasn't opposed to a vote for golden. And yet he still simultaneously demonstrates neither the belief that Wilgy is bad nor the suggestion that I should change back to golden. In fact, he is comfortable with it.

I suggest this behaviour makes perfect sense as a baddie - whether partners with golden or not.

Now this:

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:44 pm It may be the obvious answer, but in my opinion, Marmot looks bad on yesterday's lynch. I asked again and again for him to explain his reasons for suspecting master doctor wilgy, but all he said was that the good doc looked disingenuous.

I am beginning to not like that word.

Marmot explained that Wilgy was suspecting the same people as him, but also suspected him. I don't see why that is a problem.

Glorfindel asked me exactly once to describe my reasons, even though I already had. Apparently his complete ambivalence and non-effort at the end of the previous phase to convince me to vote golden instead of wilgy when I was saying I could go either way at the very same time equates to the same thing as 'asking me again and again'. Nah, you don't get to have it both ways. It's almost like he didn't want me to flip to golden in the moment but then wanted to hang me for it afterwards.

So Glorfindel goes from oppositional during the substantive phase to suddenly passive and compliant at phase end to oppositional again in the next phase...

That progression really bothers me.

Dr.Wilgy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:56 pm

Dom
Marmot

you're definitely not a doctor.

If Wilgy is good and Golden is bad I suck and I'm sorry.

But there's nothing I like better than some exciting last minute fun.

I should have stuck on golden instead of Jay yesterday though, so I'm happy to stick today. I can go either way. I just can't imagine asking to be golden and then phoning it in. I'd never want to pick Jay or Golden or dunya, too much posting for me... but these people knew what they were asking for.

Sorry, bear feet

I saw a bare foot. Gross. Luckily it was already clear who it belonged to.

Wilgy has the exact same rainbow list to me, but places me at deep orange. Doesn't that seem disingenuous to you? It does to me. Like his read of me is all based on meta-roleplay, no substance. It stinks as much as bare feet.

I'd prefer a wilgy vote to a golden vote. I think both of them are exposing themselves with their lack of play, but golden has done less actively suspicious. People signed up for this game because they wanted to roleplay, if you don't want to roleplay as that person now it suggests to me that you're under a bit of pressure. Townies can just relax and climb mountains and stuff.

Dom, my buddy. Would you prefer a wilgy or a golden vote? I could go either way.

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:13 amI appreciate the trust, master Marmot. I also appreciate the sentiment from Wilgy, and Epi, and everyone else who townreads me. You are all good friends. But I worry that one of you is a wolf in sheep's clothing, buddying me. I don't want to get caught up in a town core this early in the game. It might end with me being swayed, and I don't trust all of your town core just yet. It's only day two.

You have my post about why I think the three are town. Do you disagree with any of those specific reasons?

MacDöugall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:15 amThe guy jumped on the Jimmy wagon for no reason even tho he said Golden was off and now he's gone right back to the Golden well. He's taking easy lynches.

Since when were Jay and Golden easy lynches?

Besides which, Jay was lynched by a single vote over me. I had no votes before I made that vote. And yet, I don't regret it, know why? before that point content in this thread was shit and then we got some actual good stuff with decent voting analysis. I've got no problem putting my neck on the line for science.

I asked you a question. You didn't answer it, just skittled me. Why?

Look what I woke up to

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:39 pmI don't know how to judge inactivity in this game because I don't know who anyone is.

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:03 pmHow much does that mean in a game where everyone is faking? In my opinion we will have to look past that sort of thing.

Town

Epignósis wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:24 pm

Mármot wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:11 pm Epignosis you should join us to be honest.

Okay. I’ll vote for you.

Epignósis wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:02 pmBut what would you like to talk about- the fact that in a game designed around player meta that very few of us even make meta-sense? Because that's where we're at right now as far as I can see.

Epignósis wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:00 pmLet's not just dump votes on Dom though. We have enough slackers as it is in this game and that's dangerous.

Town

Dôm wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:59 amWhen I came back, it was a two way tie, Marmot and FauxJ with maybe 4 votes each, I don't recall. I did not particularly suspect Marmot, and did not really want to lynch him, especially when I said I would move my vote if he voted, and he had. so I switched it to the other guy. Who had pinged me, he was too manic. I thought he was trying too hard.

So there you go. If I had not switched the vote off of Marmot when I said I would, you all would be saying I was bad for that. Had I voted for a tangent third party, you would have said the same. But I felt bad voting for someone when I said I would take the vote off.

Town

Voting [VOTE: golden] aubergine

Mármot wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:23 pmnoone asks for a supatown role without intending to deliver if town.

Guaranteed bad guy right there.

Besides, I liked dom's entry just then. That's the dom I know and trust. Town dom. Scratching dom from the list today. I trust dom, epignosis and glorfindel. That's a good town core right there.

Vompattï wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:43 pm I checked myself last night. Turns out I'm good.

Stop pretending to be me, k? Marmots are expensive in Finland.

Wilgy's 'case' on me is selective and terrible. He's doing a really good job of roleplaying ricochet. I pretty much hate that his rainbow list is literally identical to mine and yet he sees me as bad. That's some disingenuous shit right there.

Golden/Wilgy. Game solved

MacDougall, do you like origami?

Look, it’s an Italian flag! I’m going to find me some garlic bread that will keep on the climb.

Epignósis wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:24 pm

Mármot wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:11 pm Epignosis you should join us to be honest.

Okay. I’ll vote for you.

Stop pretending to be me.

Rainbow list time

Marmot
Epignosis
Glorfindel

Wilgy
Macdougall
Vompatti

Golden
Dom

I voted Jay because noone asks for a supatown role without intending to deliver if town. Jay had more content than I remembered. Holden’s content is shot. Sorry, goldens content is shit. Mine is the epitome of supatown.

Jay said dom was bad and looking back I trust jays instincts. Dom looks bad.

I’ll vote for one of those two today. Convince me which one.

If you lynch me today lynch jay tomorrow. Certified bad guy.

Glorf and epi are a bright shade of green

Right, back to climbing.

Epignosis you should join us to be honest.

Where glorfindel goes, I will follow. Besides, I’m feeling whimsical.

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:03 pm

Gólden wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:58 pm In my experience, Dom is not a player that "chooses" to go after someone. He probes endlessly of anyone.

That quadruple post from Jay seems very uncharacteristic.

How much does that mean in a game where everyone is faking? In my opinion we will have to look past that sort of thing.

This man is town.

Because there was no poll. Then I went climbing. I forgot to come back and actually put the vote on the poll.

You know who isn't themselves? Golden. He's only posted an image and something about Dom not liking baseball. That's just wrong, something is off.

[VOTE: golden] aubergine

Looks like I'm breaking a tie. you can thank me later.

I won't be around much, I'm off to climb a mountain.

Where's the poll?

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

Votes are changeable.