The Syndicate

Mikhail Rasputin wrote:
Haha well ok then. When you're right you're right. I look forward to taking you down.

Havok wrote:So, White Queen, is there any way we can all win together? I'd say everyone left in the game has played hard and is deserving of winning.

If you all really are civvies, then I think we may be at an impasse, perhaps we can just keep playing forever

Rasputin obviously has only been playing for a short time; outed baddies taunting the thread is a tradition with a long and honourable history

Assuming, of course, that you all are right about me.

I will continue to post.

And I am TRYING to irk you, to make you think, to annoy you and provoke you into being better opponents. Winning is not my primary reason for playing Mafia; fun, and the mental exercise it provides, is. I would prefer to lose to a wily enemy then win via just "surviving". I like a battle of wits; I think I can take all of you, and so far you are not proving me wrong

I will not mind losing if I lose for the right reasons.

So yeah, I plan on taunting through the weekend

I see we're going with the "let's pretend this isn't happening" strategy as opposed to trying to actively DO something, lol. Or do you all agree with Avalanche that discussion is bad? If so, we are just gonna keep losing civs as you all come in in the last few hours before a lynch with random theories, and lynch yet another civ based on rather vague suppositions.

I don't plan on participating in the discussion, but seriously, you guys should be having one. Getting rid of Apocalypse is part of everyones win conditions. So it is do-able. You really just need to think out of the box. Which has not been happening, lol, like at all.

And this is where I stop working against my own interests. Seriously dudes (and I am fairly sure you are all dudes) this is no challenge at all. You need to try harder.

Gee that went swimmingly, lol.

Linki, BELIEVE. You said it, Havoc, BELIEVE. No one has tested this, just made an assumption based on MY statements about my survival.

I don't care either, tbh. If either of you die, I will still be here tomorrow

Honest Injun

I am just astonished that you guys are following Havoc, of all people, who Rasputin I believe seemed to believe was my partner, since I have been defending him.

This is rather interesting to watch. I think paranoia is setting in (my favorite part of the game )

Oh, never mind, now we are lynching the confirmed civ?

LOL, you guys are hilarious. I will leave my vote where it is ha ha ha.

Rasputin, I have been defending havoc becasue I think he is civ

When I posted my voting record and called it pro civ, I meant it.

And OK, let's lynch Shadowcat. Although I am unsure why everyone thinks lynching a civvie would kill an Indy. But what the hell, lets give it a try.

*Votes Shadowcat*

Linki, why do people think things need to make sense?

Spiral wrote:

White Queen wrote:Yeah, Rasputin, being real obvious about secret win conditions would be wicked smart of me (hypothetically, ofc)

OK then, you have been wanting to lynch Havoc on and off for ages, let's do that instead.

*changes vote*

lol

White Queen wrote:

Havok wrote:Why would you have be taken off the poll for that theory to work? Even if Archangel knew who Apocalypse was, why would Archangel waste time taking Apocalypse off the poll?

Well, to make that person look ...not Apocalypse?

It's an interesting theory.

Havok wrote:and why should we listen to anything you have to say on the subject of how to defeat Apocalypse?

And why should we listen to anything that the person suspected of being my #1 crony has to say either?

you're caught?

Caught being what? What everyone has been saying I am without even testing it for weeks? Or no longer giving a damn if you lynch the person I have been OVERTLY, aggressively protecting for weeks? Yeah, you caught me, lol; surprised this took that long Lynch Havoc. Then we can talk about me some more tomorrow.

Regardless of what Rasputin says, I still think Shaw may be be bad. Could be wrong. Lets see if we go another night without a kill, then I may consider that all the baddies are gone. At this point, I am not so sure that there are no baddies left. Very seriously. I have known baddies to choose not to kill to lull into complacency.

Personally, if I were you all I would lynch me. You may say that I am just trying to waste a lynch, and that may be true. But, very seriously, you people have been making a lot of assumptions based on things I said, things that may be lies. Were I you, I would have spent the last several days after the double Apocalypse night kill, here in the thread discussing how to defeat Apocalypse, not silently hiding and pouting about the big bad unkillable indy and the unfairness of it all (I am extrapolating here, I presume this was the sentiment) and allowing the thread to go dead. So if I were you, and not me, I would prove the theorem before I moved onto the next step. Since you're such a group of logicians and all

Or lynch Havoc, and then lynch me again tomorrow, down one civ. You guys call it

Avalanche wrote:You are being silly, White Queen.

Says the King of the Morlocks

Havok wrote:Why would you have be taken off the poll for that theory to work? Even if Archangel knew who Apocalypse was, why would Archangel waste time taking Apocalypse off the poll?

Well, to make that person look ...not Apocalypse?

It's an interesting theory.

Havok wrote:and why should we listen to anything you have to say on the subject of how to defeat Apocalypse?

And why should we listen to anything that the person suspected of being my #1 crony has to say either?

Havok wrote:More evidence that Archangel and Apocalypse could be tied together:

Archangel was Angel aka Warren Worthington III. Angel lost his wings. How did he get them back? Apocalypse gave him new and improved metal wings and after his encounter with Apocalypse Angel was then known as Archangel. The very fact that the role in this game is Archangel rather than Angel makes it even more likely IMO that Apocalypse is tied to Archangel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Wor ... #Archangel

That is an interesting theory, but I am fairly sure that I have never been off the poll, even once. Not even before people started to think I was Apocalypse. So nice theory, but unlikely, IMO. Unless, of course, someone else is Apocalypse.

So it looks like we are not going to get that early day? It might have been nice to get a grip on who is pushing what agenda a bit earlier, and a lynch of ANYONE at this stage will be illuminating.

Yeah, Rasputin, being real obvious about secret win conditions would be wicked smart of me (hypothetically, ofc)

OK then, you have been wanting to lynch Havoc on and off for ages, let's do that instead.

*changes vote*

Mr Host with the Most; if all votes come in early, would you end after 24 hours?

Havok wrote:Let's float this idea......

Lynch White Queen??

Thoughts?

linki: LOL

And after all the defending of you I have done?

OK, lets do that.

*Votes*

Longshot has definitely felt iffy to me, I agree. I am OK voting there.

Mikhail Rasputin wrote:Geez! Bad night. RIP Elo, and RIPIYWG Deadpool and Banshee.

To Apocalypse: Are you killing civs on purpose now? Because iirc, someone posted something a bit back that makes it nearly impossible Banshee was bad. If you are, you should know we have a problem.

WB Bullz! Glad our mistake was fixed so quickly.

Bullzeye wrote:Woop! Thanks for the rezz! Hopefully my being back can make a difference. I have a theory actually about something: I think Magneto might be dead. We've lynched a few baddies but never seen his power come into play and I'd think especially this late in the game it should have done at least once. Either he's targeting people that have no impact at all on the lynch or he's not targeting anyone at all.

I actually mentioned this a few days ago, and it was dismissed as crazy. Even I thought it was overly optimistic at the time. But you're right, Magneto is supposed to be horrendously powerful, and we haven't seen him affect even one lynch. So I am also cautiously optimistic he's dead.

What made it almost impossible that Banshee was bad? Not something based on the roles, I hope. Do you also think Deadpool was civ? And I think Magneto was in play in the lynch that was switched to me. The careful manipulation of the numbers by all the last minute vote switching led me to that conclusion. Do you think otherwise?

Longshot wrote:WB Bullz! Good that our mistake was rectified. I don't know what to say about the slaughter of the others except there were at least two I thought were good - and starting to lean civ on the thrid. Hopefully i'm wrong and at least two of them was bad. RIPIYAG Banshee, Deadpool, and Elohcin.

Which two did you think were good?

Epignosis wrote:A message from Professor X:

Before you judge the mad monk too harshly, remember that only he was able to cure the young Alexei's hemophilia. Best to be nice to him, for now at least.

Actually, I wrote my thesis on Rasputin. Seriously.

He did not actually cure the tsarevichs' hemophilia; he hypnotized the child (and, more important, his mother), which kept him from panicking. A hemophiliac who is calm is less likely to bleed out, and is more able to form scabs if he is not agitated. Rasputin was, on many levels, a hypnotist. No one can cure hemophilia, sadly. At least not yet.

Historical Rasputin was also a well known trickster, and a seductive figure. People who know him had problems believing he was actually a charlatan. But he was. Rasputin was the catalyst that led to the Russian Revolution; Alexeis' parents refused to face reality due to Rasputins mystical influence. As far as I am concerned, the historical Rasputin was one of the most sinister figures of the 20th Century. Or any century, really.

Which has nothing to do with this game, and neither does Prof X's post.

WB Bullz, and bye dead people. I hope you all were bad, although I doubt that is the case with Eloh.

You wanted to go there

Mikhail Rasputin wrote:RIP Bullz. I still don't know how anything makes sense since you're good. Bummer to get rezzed and then killed again; I feel kinda stupid about it now.

Havok wrote:Shaw:

For one, I don't think it was common knowledge that Bullzeye was Dazzler when we were voting for the rezz. Two, as has been discussed at length today, Sabretooth was killed on N3. Pyro took over the team's kill on N5. The only person to be killed in between N3 and N5 was Dazzler. You can't see the liklihood there that Dazzler was Sabretooth? As for Sabretooth killing himself....there are roles that redirect targets.

Jubilee
Blinding two targets with fireworks, she switches their targets.

Jean Grey
Using telekinesis, she will redirect someone's Night target.


You still think it's a hilarious concept?

Actually, I remember it as being more or less common knowledge. Didn't Hawkeye basically say so that Night by talking about Dazzler spelling things British-ly? So I knew Bullz was Dazzler when we rezzed him, I just hadn't made the connection about no one else being killed when Sabretooth's killings stopped.

Spiral wrote:RIP Bullzeye. My question is: who the hell was sabretooth, then???/

This is a damn good question, now.

Where you headed?

White Queen wrote:No worries Havoc, I don't blame you. I blame those who followed you, and will doubtless be the first to wave the pitchforks in your direction. Especially those who pushed other names early in the day, then when they did not take, just fell on Bullz.

Wow, unconditional love in mafia! Never thought I'd see the day. So Havok is off-limits for suspicions?

Since all of that logic led to the lynch of a civ (hrm, the second silencing also went off the table between Day 3 & Day 5, didn't it? ) don't mind me if I blow off the logic arguments for the rest of the game in a game that the host said would be FULL of manipulation:

Expect heavy manipulation.

Note, he did not say heavy VOTE manipulation. Just "manipulation". The night polls have a purpose.

And as for unconditional love, I have played mafia a long time. In my experience generally (not always, there IS no "always") baddies hop on bandwagons, they don't create them, then they point the finger at those who started it. They drop suggestions into the thread, like poisoned footballs, hoping someone else will pick up the ball and run with it. That it the point of things like vote forcing; you force someone to vote a certain way, all jump on board, and then blame your forced victim. I spend a lot of time looking for poisoned footballs.

Day 1, deathlok, civ, lynched. I didn't vote for him.
Day 2, T-Bird, civ, lynched. I didn't vote for him. (That might be the day i was silenced though, to be fair)
Day 3, Quicksilver, civ, lynched. I didn't vote for him.
Days 4 & 5.1, Exodus & Domino both show as Gambit. I did vote for both of them, so there is one civ I voted for.
Day 5.2, Sunfire, Rogue, civ. I did vote for SF, so my second civ
Day 6, lynch switched to me, No one dies Yay
Day 7, Again, no lynch. Shaw this time. I did not vote for him either, but have since changed my mind on some levels.
Day 8, Mysterious Marrow lynch, BADDIE!! almost no one voted for her (including me)
Day 9, Hawkeye, Indy/bad, lynch. I did vote for him.
Day 10, Polaris, BADDIE!!!, lynched. I did vote for her (him? No avis in front of me, so not sure)
Day 11, Bullz, civ, lynched. I did not vote for him.

This is my voting record. Not spotless, but pretty good, I think. Better than most for sure. I think my instincts have been pretty good. not spot on, but better than, say, yours. So, no, there is no unconditional love in Mafia. Logic does not appear to be working in this game, with 2 roles that can survive NKs and 4 (5?) actually surviving, and the case on Bullz being soooooo logical, yet so wrong. I am happy going with my instincts.

No worries Havoc, I don't blame you. I blame those who followed you, and will doubtless be the first to wave the pitchforks in your direction. Especially those who pushed other names early in the day, then when they did not take, just fell on Bullz.

Well, that certainly sucks

Deadpool wrote:i wish shaw had some more opinions n i believe i asked him 2 give some but no dice. but what can i do about it? i dont think it makes shaw a bad guy tho......... even a bad guy would want to b more helpful than that.

and u keep sayin me and shaw are bad guys and tryna turn us against 1 another. u have given no reasons 4 bein spishus of me. i think ur just hopin that peeps will blindly follow u if u say my name enough times........

Just thought I'd ask; someone I respect always asks people what their suspicions are, as a way to gauge whether or not they are bad. I like that approach, and I was curious about what the people I distrust think of each other, I guess.

Dead pool, did you ever answer my question about what you think of Shaw not having any real opinions at this stage?

I am going to switch to Dead pool, I am leaving where I am, am will probably hit traffic on the way home.

Linki, that's OK, I expected it sooner or later. Good luck with that

If you want a vote for Dead pool I will change my vote.

Read back not feedback, damn autocorrect.

That was before, tbh. But OK, I don't particularly suspect havoc or Bullz. Where would you suggest I vote? In your feedback did you read anyone but me? For, you know, baddies?

P. S. If a lynch does form around me, pay very careful attention to the direction whom whence it comes. The host has made a clarification, and the only point of willfully ignoring it is to avoid the lynch of someone else.

See you guys tonight

Spiral wrote:

Banshee wrote:i'm still leaning towards white queen, i think the behavioral change after the white queen/apocalypse theory became prevalent seems telling.

If I'm right about who White Queen is IRL, then this would be typical of her given the way some players have treated her.

Mikhail Rasputin wrote:EBWOP: However, Spiral, if you want to never ever try killing me, I totally support that motion. So carry on, please.

What makes you think I shouldn't believe White Queen isn't riding that same train? Why is she special?

Wouldn't it be mutually beneficial to the two of you if you were Apocalypse and actually couldn't die, and everyone thought she was Apocalypse so didn't bother trying to kill her?

If this were the case, I doubt I would be continuously saying I think he is bad, unlikely as everyone thinks this is; were he to be lynched and not die, he would become my rival, and we would draw ALL the NKs/lynche until one of us died.

And Banshee, what specific behavioral change? If people come up with a theory saying I cannot die who am I to tell them no? I am pretty good at being something I am not, but when people pin a label on you, and the label is the best possible role to be from a perspective of not drawing NKs and not drawing faux lynch cases, why in Gods name would I try to pretend to be other than what people are saying I am?

If I go with the flow when it's a favorable flow for me, well, why not? Would you not do the same?

Looking forward to hearing what Banshee & Deadpool think of Shaws total lack of suspicions at this point. And of each other. I am going to vote now, I have to go to a wake after work, not sure if I will be back in time (not to worry, it is a coworkers aged parent, no one close to me) so going to vote now for Shaw.

Sebastian Shaw wrote:I don't know. I have to think.

Deadpool, what are your thoughts on this post? I am curious what you think of someone with no suspicions at this point in the game?

Same question to Banshee.

And by the way, Banshee, I think a switch to Deadpool was a wise move. You don't? Do you have an opinion of Deadpool?

Spiral wrote:

Deadpool wrote:whenever i see a white queen post all i hear in my head is the teacher from the peanuts goin WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH

I'm so done with people telling me I'm being personal when people post this bullshit.

Hey, no worries

Pedantic is not the worst thing I have ever been called

And Deadpool and Rasputin, considering that I have been saying for ages that Hawkeye & Polaris were bad (and they were ) why would you think I am not interested in lynching baddies? Just curious.

Sebastian Shaw wrote:White Queen says she wants me lynched. Do you think you should trust her?

Why shouldn't they?

Ture

Deadpool wrote:mikhail i asked the host last nite cuz i was confused and he told me that if u lose your powers for m-day then u lose everything your not a mutant anymore. wolverine loses his healin factor omega red loses his faremones apocalypse loses his protection. no powers no role. its apocalypse now baby!!!

LOL, yeah, I asked that question too. Nice try

Havok wrote:that basically amounts to him role hinting from what I can gather.

Indeed. But that does not make it true. As I said, I am not likely to vote for him in any case. I am looking at Shaw & Deadpool.

Havok wrote:

White Queen wrote:

Spiral wrote:The thing that gives me pause on Mikhail is that he was targeted for a NK by the baddies. :/

Here it is. And I see Rasputin replied as well. I tend to skim over ginormous multi quotey posts. I plan to do some rereading tonight, though.

Linki; Are you Rasputins attorney? I saw that. But it is only a possibility. One of many.

That's funny.

Spiral wrote:The thing that gives me pause on Mikhail is that he was targeted for a NK by the baddies. :/

Here it is. And I see Rasputin replied as well. I tend to skim over ginormous multi quotey posts. I plan to do some rereading tonight, though.

Linki; Are you Rasputins attorney? I saw that. But it is only a possibility. One of many.

Someone up there ^^ said he was specifically targeted by the bad team. But in any case 4 (or is it 5?) different people have survived NKs. They cannot ALL be the civ that survives NKs or Apocalypse. So the fact that there are only 2 roles with NK saves written in and more than 2 people have survived NKs pretty much voids that as a defense in my opinion.

I don't think you are being personal. They are implying the use of a word like "antagonize" is personal, but I have not read it that way. It is just semantics, I think. Aggression, antagonize, attack; different ways to say the same thing.

And I just read through the hosts posts with Rasputin in them, and I do not see where the bad team targeted him. There was this from Night 6:

Mikhail Rasputin was attempting to study the topography of The Savage Land when a missile struck the top of a rocky formation. The resultant landslide buried him. When he dug his way out, he found a microchip. “This was a gift from a sentinel,” he said.

And this from Night 4:

The victory procession celebrating the new leader of the Morlocks coursed through the tunnels, bringing word to all members who could not attend the duel.

But Mikhail Rasputin stopped. He heard whispers. They grew louder and he listened carefully to hear what they were saying.

A nearby pipe burst and water knocked him against one of the tunnel walls. The brickwork above fell upon him like an avalanche, and soon, he was buried.

The others rushed back to see what had happened.

“The masonry here is not sound,” Mikhail Rasputin informed them.

I am not seeing how these are definite bad team attempts. Which is not to say I am planning a Mikhail vote. I still think Shaw is bad news as well.

Mikhail Rasputin wrote:

Spiral wrote:

Mikhail Rasputin wrote:

Spiral wrote:

Mikhail Rasputin wrote:Wow, nice job, people! Sorry I was no help. We're on a hot streak!

I vote Greymalkin Industries. It seems like a cool place, I guess. And they spell Grey properly, so good on 'em!

Edit: No they don't. Oh well, much too late to turn back now.

These lynches haven't been much thanks to you, I see.

Fair enough.

Someone seems a little bitter about that. Lighten up! You're not perfect either.

No. I am not. But you have stood in the way of quite a few useful lynches.

Let's make sure we're playing with facts, here. I have not "stood in the way" of any lynch, and "quite a few" is so much exaggeration it's laughable.

Day 10: We got the baddie on this one, so did I help? Of course not. But did I "stand in the way"? No.

Day 9 we got Hawkeye. Not sure if you wanna say I'm on his team, given that he's an indie and doesn't have teammates at all. My vote didn't matter because it was clear from the beginning of the day that he was getting almost all the votes. And I did repeatedly acknowledge that the case on him was rock-solid, I just wanted to hear from him first.

Day 8, Hawkeye single-handedly lynched Marrow. Did I help? No. Did you? No. Did anyone? NO.

Day 7 Shaw survived. Not much to say there.

Day 6, Hawkeye tried to lynch White Queen and failed. Again, all him for real.

Both Day 5s and Days 1, 2, and 3, I believe we lynched civs. A number of whom I was decidedly against lynching, by the way.

And Day 4 we got Exodus. Another case like Hawkeye where my vote didn't matter because it was clear where the lynch was going. I agreed (and have been saying for AGES) that Exodus probably was actually bad, and refused to vote him because of my personal beliefs about how mafia should be played. If that's "standing in the way", fine, you got me on one.

I get that you don't like me suspecting you, or voting you two days in a row. But if you want to NO U me, at least read my voting history. And don't lie to make a sensationalistic case on me based on exaggerations.

This post makes me want to go back and reread those lynches, on all the other days in this list, you go into detail about why what transpired does not apply to you. Then for those days highlighted, you were like, "And on these days we lynched civvies, and I was dead set against lynching....a number of them". Um, what? You spelled out each days lynch, rather succinctly, then you lump all those lynches together like that?

It makes me feel like the next line should be, "Yeah, that's the ticket ".

Ah, yes, I did forget about that. Good point.

And Longshot, no it has not been proven, but it is unlikely that both lynch candidates were baddies. I think there was a power play there. I am just glad I decided to move my vote to where it might have an impact.

...with a vote for Shaw or Deadpool, but I prefer a Shaw lynch today, I think.

Well, this is them:

Sebastian Shaw (6), Polaris (7), Bullzeye (8), Longshot (10)

Polaris obviously was a baddie. Of the three left, I think Shaw is bad for sure. Longshot I waffle on, and I am least suspicious of Bullz. This vote was somewhat damning, but one vote is not the only thing, the totality of his game makes me think he is less likely to be bad.

I would be fine

continued...Weapons & Hell House & corporations sound way uncool

I agree with Avalanche, the astral plane is groovy, man.

Yay

Only baddies are in favor of no discussion. I have seen good instincts cast aside because no one talked about them lots more than i have seen them cast aside due to manipulation. True story.