The Syndicate

Snow Dog wrote:I wish reywaS had been more involved. I needed a more experienced player with me at the end. And I wish A person had been more helpful. He acted so suspiciously.

I wish you'd been less invincible. We really needed a powerful civ role that could *be killed* instead of one that couldn't..

I only noticed one of them, now I'll have to go back and read :-)

Hedgeowl wrote:

Nevinera wrote:Now I get to die early in 2-3 games again before anyone will believe I'm not mafia >.<

Prolly. Cause if you are too quiet we will notice now.

I am *never* too quiet.. Quite the opposite really - I have been lynched so early so often because I talk way too much :-)

Now I get to die early in 2-3 games again before anyone will believe I'm not mafia >.<

Snow Dog wrote: You and Nev were brilliant. For a moment I thought we were a little civvie team. As I said. I need to follow my original instincts.

That's a play I call 'sidekicking' - once we figured out you were Topham, and therefore extremely powerful and likely to remain until the end, I started trying to seem to help you achieve your goals so you'd think me on your side :-)

Er, wut?

Wooo! Go Lizzy :-D

(But if AP flips civ, then topham ought to take a close look at the people he redirected last night and the night before)

I've thought some more, and the only explanation I can come up with besides someone faking it (and I'd suspect AP before Snow on that front) is:

Someone doubled Arry, so he could target two people, then Array targetted two people, but *Topham* redirected one of those targets to AP (Arry couldn't target AP twice in a row, but topham could presumably have redirected something to him one of the nights).

I think that's extremely unlikely, so I'm going to go ahead and vote AP also.

Hedgeowl wrote: This is what I was wondering as well, cause isn't there a whole no double targeting rule?

I gotta say I am leaning towards AP. He was in the forum yesterday to the minute before the vote with me, but didn't actually vote. With Diesel 10 gone no one can claim that excuse now.

I don't see any way that someone could be actually insanified twice in a row, and I can't think of any reason for someone to fake insanity when they don't have it.. AP hasn't actually claimed to be insanified today though; he's talking strangely, but it hasn't sounded really like something coming out of the insanifier usually does. :-\

I guess I'll wait and see if AP clears this up, but I'm leaning that direction too.

Hedgeowl wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:The feeling of vengeance Tova SE Reyw

Haha, is someone looking for revenge against reywaS for being insanified?

Oooooooooh. I totally thought that was some kind of topical music reference. >.<
I'm not at my swiftest today.

linki: is AP also insanified? or is he just odd?

Mongoose wrote: Yes - power is out at my house, so I gotta vote before I leave work.

Ah, that makes sense. Sorry, I forgot you mentioned that.

Mongoose wrote:I voted A Person for reasons that have been discussed thoroughly previously.

Are you in some particular hurry?

Nevinera wrote:I couldn't find anything that suspicious in his thread posts, though there was rather a shortage of them.
I'd lean toward people who have voted more first, really -
I don't see a huge advantage to be gained from skipping most of the votes as a baddie.
I mean, I guess diesels can be forgetful too..
but I'd rather do some more analysis of voting and finger-pointing before we convict someone just for being too quiet.
Or you know, have hedge do it ;-)

(That was about Reywas - sorry, I should have quoted someone)

I couldn't find anything that suspicious in his thread posts, though there was rather a shortage of them.
I'd lean toward people who have voted more first, really -
I don't see a huge advantage to be gained from skipping most of the votes as a baddie.
I mean, I guess diesels can be forgetful too..
but I'd rather do some more analysis of voting and finger-pointing before we convict someone just for being too quiet.
Or you know, have hedge do it ;-)

Never mind, obviously. My linki-saver failed me.

Snow Dog wrote:Or maybe A Person first as he dropped the pretense of being insanified.

He did? Which post? They all look vaguely insane to me.

I'm voting for Jack, because he's the only name in the list that has any experience with the Dharma Initiative.

I wish there were more to read for her history.
Voting wise, she only voted for a decommissioning once, for DP.

Andrew, Mongoose, Snow, DP, and Hedge voted for her on the successful decommissioning -
That's especially solid evidence for DP and Hedge's being civ, since they were the swing votes.

Mongoose and Lizzy (and simon of course) voted for her in the other vote that almost caught her -
that's twice Mongoose has tried to catch her, and Lizzy was a swing vote that time (though only in a 2v2).

The suspect pool is diminishing rapidly :-D

McViper wrote:and what about reywaS? He's missed almost all the votes. What's with that?

Yeah, it bothered me too.. but missing all the votes isn't particularly good baddie-strategy either, so I'm not really sure what I can read into it.

I have to go before things settle out, and I don't have strong feelings about anyone in particular.
I'm going to vote Lizzy. I actually think Krissy is more likely to be bad, but
if Lizzy flips bad, we'll have evidence that Krissy is not (because Lizzy voted Krissy in a near-conviction)
- the converse isn't true.

Out for the afternoon to celebrate paying off my mortgage :-D :-D :-D

A Person wrote:In Philadelphia, the school paid the men eChillin (b) honor Deadwood and size.

That seems conclusive :-)

Hedgeowl wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

A Person wrote:In order to do this.

In order to do what? Can you expand on this thought?

Was A Person insanified? None of todays posts really make sense.

He's making way more sense than the insane usually do..
But I guess you could do that by putting things into the tool to decide if you want to
Post what comes out? I don't know if thats allowed..

Just give us a nice rambling insane post if you are, AP.

Hedgeowl wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:Since there's an hour left to vote and it doesn't look like anybody else is coming, I'm going to have to vote to save myself I suppose. Fortunately, I do think DP could be bad, having had his team insanify him to cover up after people discussed him earlier. So that's who I'll vote for, but if I survive I'll also be keeping a close eye on Viper and Snow. Neither seems to have a decent reason for their vote for me and it's a little too coincidental that they both just happen to vote at the same time. If I do die today (though I'm hoping not) then I would urge the civvies to look more closely at SD and Viper.

Linki: Nev, your willingness to kill civvies just to find out if someone else is bad speaks volumes about your alignment.

This makes me think DP is also a civ, because why would Bullz so blatantly throw suspicion on his own teammate?

You're right, I'd totally forgotten that conversation.
Bah, no time tonight. At least hedge is doing her due diligence :-)

Nevinera wrote:my logic tells me that you and snow are almost certainly civs.

I feel like I should elaborate on this a little, in case anyone doesn't see the argument:

Snow and Viper both voted for Bullz *first* in a vote, basically simultaneously.
That would be a very unlikely move to make for either of them as baddies,
and it would be *vanishingly* unlikely for both of them to be bad.

Bulls and Viper have voted for each other almost *consistently*, looking back at the record -
I'm counting three votes out of 4 polls in which one of them voted for the other.

DH, DP, Krissy, APerson, and Mongoose all seem like viable suspects to me.
I think I like Mongoose best right now, but I don't have strong feelings about any of them.

McViper wrote: OK I'm thinking Nev is a baddie, based on how "sincere" his comment was above. He seems to be playing us. Also, I don't think DP is bad anymore. Bullzeye voted for him.

any thoughts?

I'm not sure how to argue with that - your opinion of my 'sincerity' seems rather arbitrary to me.
The post was sincere, in the sense that I was expressing a genuine opinion -
my logic tells me that you and snow are almost certainly civs.

I voted for Bullzeye on Saturday, the day we almost lynched him, if that affects your opinion any.

Bah. I'm going to have to review a ton of histories now. This is the part of the game that's hard work >.<

He certainly seemed to have confidence in things that Toby might have a way of knowing.
But he's also really young, so I'm not willing to take his logic entirely on faith;
He's been pretty gung ho for a lynch or two that turned out bad I believe (I'll confirm that after work with some reading).

A Person wrote:He died a natural death.

He was scrapped by a gang of anthropomorphic trains bent on domination.
Not entirely natural, imo.

Rest in peace, Simon. You must've hit a nerve in there somewhere :-\

Simon wrote: Nevinera -Are you sure you're good?

Very, in-game.
In real life I'm only somewhat decent.

Elohcin wrote:Bullzeye has been decommissioned. He was Diesel 10.

It is now Night 4. You have 24 hours to send in your PMs.

Wow! That is unexpected, but a big win.

I had already observed the bull-snow antagonism, so I feel like snow dog has to be pretty trustworthy now.
I mean, yeah they could have been faking that, but I really don't think bull would have put *so* much effort into that
argument if he were faking it. Given that, and snow's response, I feel pretty good about snow in general.

Since my main reason for suspecting viper was the double-vote with snow (sorry McV, I definitely wouldn't vote for you now),
I guess it's a good thing somebody rewrote the ballots! Good call, whoever you are, though I think I know ;-)

Voting for "Hey, Al Jazeera", because real journalism is old-fashioned and passe.

I'm going to be busy for an indeterminate time soon, so I'm going to get my vote in now:

I'm voting for McViper, because his reasons for voting as he does are unclear. I also think there's an off-chance that he and Snow are teammates because of the double-vote this weekend; if he flips diesel it would definitely be interesting information.

I'd like to remind whoever is voting last-minute that tying up the vote is *bad* - every turn that we don't decommission anyone is a free night during which the baddies can scrap someone.

Krissy wrote:Sorry. I have a 4mth old so getting on at the right times is a task in itself. But a reason you shouldn't vote for me is because iam not one of the bad ones.

Oh man, I remember that. My 8mo-old finally started sleeping properly last week, and my brain is only just starting to recover.

I'm leaning toward viper or Krissy, by the way. Whoever is last, be *sure* not to tie up the vote.
We're running out of time, we *really* need to get a diesel soon.

Snow Dog wrote: I'm starting to think the most vocal people here, you me and Nev are all civ. If so I apologise for my vote for you. If true though I fear we may be targeted for a NK.

I don't know that I'd go *that* far. Bullz has seems off to me pretty frequently this game, and his analysis of your posts from yesterday still seems.. not conclusive, but solid. It certainly makes me confident that *one* of you is good at least,
since he went to a lot of effort to build that case, but I tend to think one of you might not be.

That said, I'm rather afraid to vote for either of you, because I have no idea why I'm still alive - I expected an NK days ago. My guess is that I'm around because scrapping me would incriminate someone, and you two are the only ones I've really been pointed at. So I'm going to keep pointing at both of you! No offense :-P

Snow Dog wrote:

Krissy wrote: Hmmmm. Well I am listening too. Lol

Like you Krissy. You vote silently for DP. Why? You don't say much but you vote. Any good reason for me not to vote for you?

This appears to be her first decommissioning vote, from a search of the polls thread.
She has been popping in and voting for the less contentious things, but I've never seen her signed-in..

I don't feel like a baddie would be so.. ineffective. With teammates explaining stuff and all.
But she's not really giving us much help either, so I'd be ok with trying her.

Just to point out to everyone - the poll ends tomorrow, not today.

Simon wrote:I want my people to attack Krissy. All good people must listen to me!

Well, I'm listening, but is there any particular reason I should vote for her?
She hasnt said much, but she hasn't logged in much either.

Heh. That also makes his reaction less wierd.

Snow Dog wrote:I certainly will do no such thing and I still want to know where it is obvious who Bullz is.

Holy cow, I just went back and looked at the poll again.
I could have sworn he won the lynch vote, but it was a tie with krissy.
I guess maybe ties don't decommission anyone?
I feel like a moron >.<

Sorry about that Snow, I totally should have checked immediately when you didn't follow my logic.
I know you're a rational player, I just figured you must've been doing something I didn't understand.
Which turned out to be actually reading the poll.
Anyway, I guess knowing that I thought Bullz had been lynched unsuccessfully should make my
logic clearer.

[quote="Snow Dog"And if that wasn't a role hint then I'm a wombat living on a boat near the Seychelles.[/quote]

If that was a role hint, that I completely don't understand the rules of this game.
At any rate, you should probably call in one of the mods to smite me for breaking the rules, and to explain to me what they mean.

Snow Dog wrote:Well if you are dropping role hints Nev and confirming he is is Civ I will be sure to not vote him this time.

Oh come on, that's not a role hint.
Everyone that's paying attention knows exactly who he is, and I certainly didn't indicate any particular role myself.

I think I see your game here, and it's pretty clever, I have to admit.
We'll see how it turns out for you though; I don't see how you can buy more than a couple of turns this way.

Snow Dog wrote:I don't see why it is random. Diesels are decommissioning Steam. That is the game.

But decommissioning steamers that are basically absent seems like poor play to me.
I mean, it's possible they've gathered information in various ways, but they don't have access to a lot of info via powers..

It's making me think that there aren't any experienced players on the diesel team.
Or would be, if I weren't becoming so confident that *you* are.

linki Bullz:

Why especially me?

Because I have a strong reason to believe you're a civ (which ought to be obvious, though I don't think I'm allowed to explain, since it indicates a specific role).

Perhaps the diesels don't have any particular agenda or perhaps they have one that's not so obvious.

That doesn't make sense. Of course they have an agenda - they're trying to *win*.

I follow your reasoning about patterns though; I guess without knowing specifically who is being protected, it'd be a bit fruitless to try
to analyze who is being carefully not scrapped.. but I'm going to try anyway. Wish me luck.

I'm also still curious about the BWT thing.
Does anyone have thoughts on the reasons behind such random-seeming kills?
I'm especially curious if you have any thought Bullz..

Snow Dog wrote:^Nice catch.

As you know perfectly well, *this* is the response I'm talking about.
Do you think you can make a page-long post go away by ignoring it?

Especially considering who posted the argument.. if you don't have anything to say about it,
I'm pretty sure where my vote's going.

Snow Dog wrote: No I wasn't rude. Least not intentionally. No I am not trying any gambit. I didn't realise I had to reply. What do you want me to say?

"I am not a diesel" would have been a great start.
Or any kind of argument at all?
I hate it when people do things that make no sense..

Snow Dog wrote: So am I wrong or bad to try and make the best of his gambit? What language?

No, I was asking if you were attempting the same gambit by not bothering to reply to a complicated and analytical attack.
And I meant *your* language, which was somewhat rude.

Snow Dog wrote:

Nevinera wrote:Snow, the llama gambit isn't really a thing. Are you trying to get lynched too?
Is everyone in this game crazy?

It wasn't? What was it about then?

It obviously didn't work.
Too many new people, and the logic about splitting the good from bad was incredibly shaky.
And two of the llama-voters were pretty clearly not diesels, which means that even if all three of the others were, he only did a little better than guessing.

And language, sir, I don't speak French!

Hedgeowl wrote:I love everything that you want.

That sounded vaguely sinister :-P

Snow, the llama gambit isn't really a thing. Are you trying to get lynched too?
Is everyone in this game crazy?

Snow Dog wrote:^Nice catch.

-.O

What I want to know is: what is with the NKs?
Birds hadn't posted in three days, and wasn't particularly targeting anyone except llama.
If there's some method here, I'm not seeing it at all. Is random-NK a normal thing for baddies to do?