The Syndicate

Bea - What did you think of it?
Logan - You may not beat me as I had to put Anathem down for a few days because I had library books I need to read and return. I think we are in about the same spot!

Question:

How does Anathem mirror more traditional coming-of-age dramas?

Edited to add: I am about 65% done with the novel.

thellama73 wrote:

Mongoose wrote:I definitely thought it was about immersion, and we said some of the same things about new concepts, but don't you think English might devolve beyond our understand in 500 years?

Barring some kind of societal collapse, I think it's probable that we wouldn't be able to understand them, but improbable that they wouldn't be able to understand us, or at least read our writing.

Here's an example of why I don't think we will be able to understand future generations (although I like your idea that they will be able to understand us).

My sister is 16.

This was a recent facebook status of hers: "HMU or LMS if u wanna kik me. YOLO!"

I had to perform web searches for many things in that statement.

I definitely thought it was about immersion, and we said some of the same things about new concepts, but don't you think English might devolve beyond our understand in 500 years?

RE: Your question as to whether or not this is modern times. It seems pretty parallel to us, but I don't think it matters how much it matches up with our own timeline because I don't picture it as earth at all. It could have been happening when the earth was still in the Triassic or it could be happening 10,000 years in the future. I guess I'm saying its relevance to earth's developments seems completely insignificant since there's no correlation (so far in the book anyway) to earth at all.

thellama73 wrote:

Mongoose wrote:I'm having a little trouble with what speculative fiction means. It just means alternative universe kinda right? I'm trying to learn all the terminology, but basically people live in these enclaves and don't interact with the outside world except once every 1, 10, 100, or 1000 years, dependent on their sect? And instead of religion, it's more of an intellectual commune. And there are all these rites and holidays and stuff. Like one where they extract a member to go out and share and help develop the secular world.

Is that kinda right? Also it seems like Erasmus is the protag, but I'm not sure.

All that is right. Speculative fiction is a catch all term for science fiction/fantasy/horror or any type of fiction that imagines things that are not real.

I quite like the idea of the isolated communities devoted to intellectualism, sort of like a university except it lasts longer and there is less contact with the outside world. The rituals (called "auts") are a very interesting part of it, being run with different bell patterns and having different meanings. The one you refer to of being called back into the outside world is called Voco, clearly derived from the Latin Vocare, to call.

Here is the first discussion question I wrote down: How does Stephenson’s use of invented lexicon contribute to the narrative?

I am so glad I finished watching Cloud Atlas before I responded to this, because it helped me get my thoughts in order. Some people are feelers, and some are thinkers. I'm the latter and I'm always up in my own head. I hope I'm translating this from Mongoolian into English acceptably.

The invented lexicon is useful in many ways. Language evolves greatly in a period of 200 years. We can read and understand documents from the American Revolution, but some of the words are spelled differently or the syntax is different or it sounds more or less formal. Shakespearean language can be trying for those of us not scholars in the same, but you can generally make out what's going on. However, looking at Middle English and beyond, you can't make all of it out or maybe even half. And forget Old English or Occitan.

That's what bothers me about films and books that show the future. There's no way we would be able to communicate with our progeny 500 years from now. Think of just how radically different the accents alone would be.
The language would evolve so much in that amount of time that we might not even be able to understand them at all. I don't know if English will evolve or devolve in the next 500 years, but with acronyms on the rise and misspellings of words to save space becoming more acceptably, you can guess which guess I'd make.

Invented lexicon works for this environment because it's not our environment. This is not our collective experience. We don't have these sorts of communes, so why not give them an original name? Instead of calling them rites, call them auts.

JK Rowling made up a lot of her own lexicon to propel her narrative but the words were often derived from French or Latin, so they made sense. I feel like Stephenson is doing the same thing here. The author doesn't want us to feel too comfortable in this new world; it's not something we could experience in our own world in the coming years, so he sets us apart from it by using foreign and alien words for ideas that are foreign and alien to us.

Why do you think he used the invented lexicon?

bea wrote:I would be ok with re-reading The Corrections. Is good stuff!

Yay! As soon as I finish Anathem with Logan. Kindle says I am already 1% through so it shouldn't take long at all

A Person wrote:

Mongoose wrote:

A Person wrote:

Mongoose wrote:Have any of y'all read Cloud Atlas?

I keep meaning to but I never read far enough to get into it, I was looking for something to do tonight so maybe I'll try again. I really liked the movie, though.

We should do that next in Mafia Book Club! Wanna read it with me?

Also, does anyone want to read Jonathan Franzen's The Corrections at roughly the same time? This is going to be quite teh bonding experience, if you do. You can only read a Franzen novel for the first time once (well obv, but you know what I mean), so this is going to be very special.

I could try to do that, I am much like vomps in my reading habits. It may give me some motivation to do so if others are reading it too.

YES! You've made me a happy mongoose, Matt.

A Person wrote:

Mongoose wrote:Have any of y'all read Cloud Atlas?

I keep meaning to but I never read far enough to get into it, I was looking for something to do tonight so maybe I'll try again. I really liked the movie, though.

We should do that next in Mafia Book Club! Wanna read it with me?

Also, does anyone want to read Jonathan Franzen's The Corrections at roughly the same time? This is going to be quite teh bonding experience, if you do. You can only read a Franzen novel for the first time once (well obv, but you know what I mean), so this is going to be very special.

I am still marinating upon your question, llama. I got bogged down by analyzing Cloud Atlas tonight. It reminds me a bit of Darren Aronofsky's The Fountain, which is a good thing, for me anyway.

Have any of y'all read Cloud Atlas?

I'm having a little trouble with what speculative fiction means. It just means alternative universe kinda right? I'm trying to learn all the terminology, but basically people live in these enclaves and don't interact with the outside world except once every 1, 10, 100, or 1000 years, dependent on their sect? And instead of religion, it's more of an intellectual commune. And there are all these rites and holidays and stuff. Like one where they extract a member to go out and share and help develop the secular world.

Is that kinda right? Also it seems like Erasmus is the protag, but I'm not sure.

thellama73 wrote:

bea wrote:Yes! Hunter's wasn't over the top enough tbh. but it caught the essance pretty well. Also it was funny to read him tell people to not do drugs.

See, when I read that I kind of assumed the author had actually gotten quotes about the book from those people, instead of just making them up. Is this an insane thing to think?

Yes, it is, haha. They are obviously fabricated. Right?!? He did a dang ole fine job of fabricating those stories and interviews. I don't have a copy of the book with me.

Bea, can you look up some of those (fake) citations and see if any are real/legit?

Llama, do we need a new thread for Anathem or are we going to chat about it in here?

bea wrote:Hit the halfway point in House of Leaves - it right creaped me out about the time the house started attacking everyone, but I loved the chapter "what others have thought." the riffs on the styles of famous people cracked me up. especially Bloom and Thompson.

I had totally forgotten about that! The writer was spot-on with his fake NPR interviews especially.

This reminds me of neo-Ayn Rand dystopia. It caught my eye a bit because Johnny Truant is one of the authors, just like the narrator in House of Leaves.

http://freedigitalreads.com/2013/08/09/ ... /#comments

Vompatti wrote:I used to read a lot of long novels when I was in high school but recently I've noticed I tend to lose interest before I even begin.

There are a TON of good short story compendiums (compendia?) these days.

It is! And now I know what speculative fiction means. I had a little trouble getting into the world, but now that I am immersed, I really like it.

Should we make another thread to discuss Anathem?

thellama73 wrote:

Mongoose wrote:Llama Lo - My mom sent me birthday money so I finally got your ebooks today!

Yay! Although I would have just sent them to you if you had asked. :S

I knoooow, but I wanted to subsidize one book-making beverage!

Llama Lo - My mom sent me birthday money so I finally got your ebooks today!

Does this mean you like the main story but not the Johnny Truant story? I didn't really like him much.

Llama lo, I got Anathem in today.

S~V~S wrote:I went in and added you, Logan, I did the fan thing and sent a request on Goodreads. I would like to read your stuff. I am in between books right now, so the timing would be good.

Oooh add me too. I just have a regular page though. It's pretty easy to find me from Logan's page because I'm his only friend named Alison on there.

bea wrote:also - this whole thread started with you saying "I want to talk about this book with someone."

So - I hope I'm providing the discussion you were hoping to find.

My work friend is hecka mad at me becuase I put off "the wheel of time book 2" to read this.

that said -it's not a big deal at all and I've been wanting to read this one.

yeah absolutely! I've never quite read a book like this before (and I read probably too much), so I was anxious to discuss it. My only local friend that his read it absolutely hated it.

I don't have the book with me anymore (I turned it back into the library), so I can't comment on things as much as I like since I can't reference it, but I will do my best.

Hopefully your friend won't be too mad at you and also likes mongooses.

Toward the last half of the book or so, I started having a really hard time understanding Truent's narrative. As in, I didn't even super know what was going on, but maybe that was intentional since Truent doesn't super seem to know what's going on.

I have a tiny pimple inside my ear and I think it's going to drive me into the loony bin. It hurts when I touch it, so of course I keep rubbing it.

There's so much going on in that part of the book! I think it's because once you go down the rabbit hole, you never really come out, even if you do escape. I like the metaphor that the hallway world draws men so much more easily because men have womb-envy and want to uh penetrate things.

Bea, I read it more literally. I read it as Zambino, the lists. I don't think Truent was the narrator of those passages.

thellama73 wrote:

Mongoose wrote: Llama Lo - Do you have any more thoughts about the book? More literal musings. For instance, did you think it was creepy crawly?

Actually, I didn't find it scary at all and was really surprised when I kept reading reviews that talked about not being able to read it at night and things like that. There was a lot of empty hallways, but empty hallways by themselves don't seem particularly frightening to me.

It's been quite a few years since I read it, so I don't know if I have any other thoughts to really contribute. I liked the weird patterns of text on some of the pages and how "house" always appears in blue, and I liked some of the ridiulous footnotes that list several hundred styles of architecture, for example.

I didn't find it particularly scary either. Those footnotes were pretty hilarious.

juliets wrote:i have a page on goodreads but i've forgotten what name i used and what the password is - maybe i used Juliets Coffee

Well y'all figure that out and add us! Here's mine: http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/8210498-alison

Bea - I am so glad you are liking it so far! I definitely liked that part!

Llama Lo - Do you have any more thoughts about the book? More literal musings. For instance, did you think it was creepy crawly?

Vompatti wrote:I wouldn't mind getting the women, but do I really have to read the books?

You should read them; they're quite good! I have both a physical and an e-book copy of Pandemonium.

bea wrote:

Mongoose wrote:Is it not intense? Are you finding it eerie?

I definitely did not always know where to go. Vompers, did you start reading yet?

I'm roughly at page 50 now. IDK if it's all the footnotes, but I'm reading it more slowly like I would an academic text. I'm not finding it eerie so much as fascinating. My current thing is play back and forth between the story in the footnotes and what is going on in the description of the Record. The bit about echo and the fact that the stories are "echoing" each other is rather inspired.

It's not just you. I'm a really fast reader, but this probably took me at least 3x as long to read as a usual novel of the same length. I usually read 2-3 books a week and this took me 2 weeks to read.

Yeah no kidding! That sounds so Denmark. Maybe we can all write wooden logs.

To get your works into the ILL system, you just need to get your book into ONE library within the ILL system. Cooperating libraries will give all the other cooperating libraries within the system access to that book, so as long as you can get it into one library, you're golden.

College libraries also have an ILL system (called OCLC) that has lots of sister academic libraries.

Since you are so close to the literal Library of Congress, you should find out how to have your stuff catalogued!

I'm so jealous. I've been beating myself up continuously for my lack of progress.

Llama lo, I've almost asked you about getting your books into the library, but I wasn't sure how'd you feel about that.

You need to let the local program director/programming librarian at your local libraries know about your books. You can request your local library purchase said book if it's not available within its local library system.

I actually tried to get an e-copy of Pandemonium for our ebook collection when I was trying to use up all the money by the end of the year, but I was stuck only using Publishers X & Y.

I still need to get your latest novel.

Hedgeowl wrote:Will likes that one I think, Llama. Is Anathem part of a series?

Well, my library did not have it, so I will have to order it looks like. Off to Amazon!

Can your library do an ILL (interlibrary loan?) I've gotten stuff from Alaska before. There are thousands of cooperating libraries across the continental US.

thellama73 wrote:After you guys finish House of Leaves, Mafia Book Club should read Anathem by Neal Stephenson. I am reading it now and it is very unique and interesting.

I really need to read some Neal Stephenson so I will take you up on that. Can you write down some discussion questions as you go along?

Is it not intense? Are you finding it eerie?

I definitely did not always know where to go. Vompers, did you start reading yet?

bea wrote:

Mongoose wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I have read both House of Leaves and Jonathan Strange. I have a very definite and different interpretation of the former than anyone else I know. I did not view it as a "scary" story at all, but rather as a satire of academic writing. I thought the whole book was one big send up of the conventions and pretensions of academia and the way they approach communication. Just my opinion, but I've never heard anyone else echo it, so I thought it worth mentioning.

I really liked Jonathan Strange, but it did bog down a bit at the end. It's been a long time since I read either of them.

Hmm. I think I can see that. The hallway is a foil for the Ivory Tower in a way.

I love love love that I'm on this random awesome site of smart people and I just got to read this bolded thing.
I love love love you guys so much.

I'm so happy you feel that way too!

Vompers, so glad you got your copy!

thellama73 wrote:I have read both House of Leaves and Jonathan Strange. I have a very definite and different interpretation of the former than anyone else I know. I did not view it as a "scary" story at all, but rather as a satire of academic writing. I thought the whole book was one big send up of the conventions and pretensions of academia and the way they approach communication. Just my opinion, but I've never heard anyone else echo it, so I thought it worth mentioning.

I really liked Jonathan Strange, but it did bog down a bit at the end. It's been a long time since I read either of them.

Hmm. I think I can see that. The hallway is a foil for the Ivory Tower in a way.

Epi - It is very gimmicky. Sometimes the words are written diagonally across the page or upside down. The footnotes usually are at the "bottom" of the page, but sometimes not. Often, half of the page is footnotes. Several times, whole pages were composed of footnotes. I like the book despite its shortcomings. It's hard for me to recommend necessarily because it's so niche.

Hedge - I have read Jonathan Strange! It was right when I started law school so it's been since 2005? You might like The Night Circus actually. And the Jonathan Stroud books. It's not super scary, I promise. It's really more eerie or creepy than something that will keep you up at night.

Bea - I think you totally should!

All - I have a real life book club (we've read everything from The Night Circus to YA dystopia to Shakespeare to Brave New World to Casual Vacancy), so I'm really excited about bringing it online. I also run the book club at the library I moonlight at.

All - This is me on GoodReads if you want to add me: http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/8210498-alison

Yeah, it has a ridiculous amount of footnotes. A whole 'nother story is told through the footnotes. Unfortunately, that story isn't as good as the main narrative. It can be a bit of work to read through because you are flipping back and forth and looking for the corresponding footnotes or flipping to the appendices all the time, so not a great book to read in bed.

A Person wrote:

Mongoose wrote:Oh that sucks, Matt. See if your library can do an ILL, or Interlibrary Loan? When my library doesn't have what I need, they can borrow from thousands of reciprocacting libraries. I've even borrowed a book from Alaska before (I'm in FL).

I know I can order books from different branches of the district library, but I'm not sure if I can go outside it. If I'm ever there I could ask. I'm somewhat scared to go back because I accidentally forgot a book I'd checked out and had it for a year. Also I lost my library card (for the umpteenth time).

We see this all the time. Don't be embarrassed! Ask them specifically if they have ILLs; they should know what means if they are a participatory branch. Yay!

Oh that sucks, Matt. See if your library can do an ILL, or Interlibrary Loan? When my library doesn't have what I need, they can borrow from thousands of reciprocacting libraries. I've even borrowed a book from Alaska before (I'm in FL).

A Person wrote:I've been meaning to read it but books cost money and I don't often have that or the opportunity to spend it.

I got mine from the public library because I am often broke and cheap.

Great! Poke me when you get it. The book is 750+ pages, but like 200 of that is attachments and exhibits, so it's not as long as you might think. Get ready for lots and lots of footnotes.

I am not sure -- I have the full color edition, so certain words are in red and certain are in blue ("house" always appears in blue). I don't know that the full color edition really would add your enjoyment of it though.

Hurry and snag it so we can have an online reading club!

It's a horror book by Mark Z. Danielewski. I'm not completely done, but I need someone to discuss this with!

If you don't recognize the title, it's about an award-winning photojournalist who moves into an average house with his family. A weird, mysterious hallway appears, and it takes much longer to walk down the hallway than it would to walk down the length of the house. More eerie than scary.