The Syndicate

bea wrote:Bullz - you know what you are right. I really screwed the poochie with my MM vote and in hindsite really didn't come back and say much. That was totally because of my personal headspace at that time and not because of the game. I got super lazy toward the game. That was the vote that ended last Friday right? It sticks out to me because I was on my out of town trip during the SVS lynch, got home Thursday and tried to cram the three days I'd missed into my super exausted head. I had to work early the next day and tried to check in as much as I could and tried to get as much info as I could when I able to. Fridays-Sundays are super busy in the pizza shop. I almost didn't make it with enough time vote and skimmed thread. My thinking at the time was honestly "Crap! I have to do this and get back to orders! I think lorab's pretty good at reading people and I think bullz is too. I'm going to go ahead and follow them on this one."

I am not laying blame for my poor vote at the feet of anyone but myself. I should have come back and said something and I didn't. I was tired. I honestly have been pretty run down since I got back. Yesterday was the first day I felt near normal.

I was not trying to save goosey. I'm pretty undecided on her tbh. She's in my "?" category. Blooper and JC are in that category as well.

I have had civ feelings about Dana, but her continued absense from the game is troubling to me.

Fair enough. Like I said it's only the one vote of yours that has stuck out to me, everything else you've done all game had me feeling good about you. If Mongoose flips bad, I'll be suspecting you and Niju and Hedge but if she's civ you will come off that list. Niju and Hedge won't though because Niju I feel is quite blendy and Hedge got defensive over her MM vote IMO. She acted like me saying the bandwagon came out of nowhere was completely unfounded when if you actually look at the votes none of his voters really seem to put much thought into it. Seems like she had something to hide.

I've got about an hour and a half before I leave, then I probably won't be around much until tomorrow night. I will follow along on my phone and respond to anything that really needs a response but as I said earlier I don't like to post from my phone (the home key is right underneath the space bar and the amount of times I accidentally close a window while typing is unbelievable) so maybe don't expect to see too much.

I'm going to stick my vote on Mongoose because I think the MM bandwagon was a pretty obvious save of her. Gonna have to do it now since I'm away from my laptop friday-saturday and will only be able to check in on my phone. I hate phone posting so I'll probably just vanish unless anything big comes up.

So I had originally intended to go through the MM bandwagon the other day because it did surprise me a little but then I got silenced. I'm going to do that now instead. In order, his voters were Bullzeye (8), LoRab (13), thellama73 (16), nijuukyugou (17), bea (18), Hedgeowl (20), Mongoose (22). I'm glad I did this, MM's lynch is one of the craziest I've ever seen when you look into how it went down.

Me - Civ.

LoRab - She's the only person I remember really supporting/agreeing with my views on MM early on. Reads civ to me though she's also kinda quiet.

Llama - We know he was civ.

Niju - Up until the day he was lynched Niju mentioned MM exactly once. That was in the wake of Made's death, a single comment that didn't necessarily give any opinion on him. Then on day six he and LC are the most suspicious of the people on the poll. She called them both suspicious for the same reason - their vote for Made despite believing him to be Lancelot. Yet LC was someone she'd called 'odd' in the past for other reasons such as his turning on Llama, and as I've said MM is literally never mentioned at all until a passing comment on day five. On the balance of things, you might have expected her to vote LC rather than MM. I also find it odd that she called out specifically those two for voting Made despite believing the Lancelot theory. Loads of people believed that theory. I believed it but voted for Made because I thought if it wasn't true but he was bad his teammates would've been all over it. I also find her to be quite blendy in general. She doesn't seem to have strong opinions. She'll comment on someone maybe once or twice but not always follow through with things and doesn't push her views forward very much.

Bea - I went into Bea's posts thinking "Oh Bea seems good this game I trust her and I'll find support for that in here". Not so much. She does generally come off fairly trustworthy and seems to be playing a good civ game. She jumped onto the MM bandwagon with no discussion at all though. No indication she'd ever been suspicious of him and even after the lynch no real explanation for her vote. She apologised to MM for voting him but never said what inspired her to jump on the bandwagon. Also this:

bea wrote: Speaking of early votes, there sure does seem to be a bunch of them with little to no discussion. WTH? Not *all* of these peeps can be cursed can they?

bea wrote:At work super busy voting mm.

Both on the same day. I'm no longer sure what I think of Bea.

Hedge - Told me off for saying the MM bandwagon seemed to come out of nowhere. Seriously, two of his voters (up until now) had never discussed him. One probably only voted him to stay in the game. Drew a bit of heat early on for hedging her bets with the SVS-MP debate but since then a lot of her analysis seems pretty decent. She's come up with some points about baddies and their numbers which I think might be relatively accurate. On the other hand she's yet another who didn't really do much discussion of MM before his lynch. She didn't give a reason for why she voted him either. This after suggesting she's suspicious of Mongoose too. So in hindsight, this post:

Hedgeowl wrote: I am specifically not a fan of info-dumping either, so I hesitate with Boogs' warning of Bullz. However, Bullz' post about the "sudden" suspicion of MM after we had already had a day where Made, MM, and Mongoose were discussed as M for baddie candidates seems off to me. MM had also received lots of scrutiny for the early 'French' comment. I know for one felt that Mongoose was not my top suspect.

Bullzeye wrote:

fingersplints wrote:RIP MM. I felt like some of the votes there were a bit suspicious, and seemed like it was out of nowhere to save Mongoose. Lorab was talking about him for a while, so I think hers could be genuinely misguided.

I was actually surprised so many people jumped onto that vote. I'd had a gut feeling about MM for most of the game but it seemed like nobody other than LoRab really agreed with me until today. There was definitely something fishy going on there.

Here he seems to say, well I voted for MM, but I actually suspected him, unlike all these other bandwagoners. It just doesn't ring entirely true to me.

Comes off really defensive. Splints was right, the overwhelming majority of MM's votes come out of nowhere from people who'd almost never breathed a word against him even when they voted. So yeah, I did vote for MM but I did actually suspect him. I've seen no evidence she did. Nor Bea or Niju. Also, 'M Day' was still all about Made. MR ended up dead and MM caught a tiny bit of heat but it was M for Made mostly.

Mongoose - Not sure what to think. I know a few people have been quite suspicious of her and I do agree she comes off strange sometimes. MM actually pointed out that at least once she's made comments implying she's trying to lie low and only respond to things directed at her. Something I noticed is that for whatever reason she's gotten a lot more quiet since day 2. Maybe just because of the game she was hosting. She has four pages of posts and the first 3 of those are day 0 - night 2. Her OTT defense of Llama (who we know to be civ) comes off quite crazy. No explanation for her MM vote, not even a post with the vote itself. I suppose she voted him to protect herself ultimately.

Go look at the poll thread, look at MM's lynch and compare the numbers. Mongoose had four votes when MM had two. Then Llama, Niju, and Bea consecutively vote for MM. Boogs ties it back up at 5 each, and Hedge breaks the tie soon after followed by Mongoose putting down her vote to condemn MM. This looks like a massive save attempt in my book. I will almost definitely be changing my vote.

Long Con wrote:Nooooo! Splintsy! Really sorry to see you go, I really felt like you brought an honest and direct angle to a lot of the discussions, in a way that really kept it real.

So she was the mysterious Herbert.

Really? :P

In the morning I'll go over MM voters and other stuff too but I wanted to get my point on Boogs across. I think he's bad news. I pretty much know it. I think he or his team silenced me so I wouldn't be able to defend and then he came after me dropping hints about info hoping he'd be believed. No idea what his endgame was for that but it's the only thing that makes sense because I know he doesn't have info and it's way too big of a coincidence that I happened to be silenced right when he brought it up.

As promised, voting Boogs for his fake infodump and fake curse. If something good comes up on someone else or I need to save myself I will probably move my vote but I'm pretty convinced Boogs is bad. I mean the fact he just happens to suddenly push these info hints while I'm silenced, as well as the fact he's never seemed to have info on anyone else, and nobody else all game has seemed to have any kind of posting curse, none of those add up in a way that makes me think 'civ'.

Boogs wrote:I havent responded to the smilie thing because its going in circles but make of it what you all may. And anyway, I'm partly torn still to vote Bullzeye, JC, or someone else tomorrow but i fear i may have to if it looks like i am getting votes. Hopefully this cat still has some of it's 9 Civ lives left to survive tonight and tomorrow.

Please respond to it. Were you or were you not cursed? You've never actually said. If you weren't cursed, why do it? Serious question. I can think of no real, lasting benefit for a civ or baddie.

If I survive tonight (assuming Boogs' team don't just kill me) I'll be voting Boogs because he faked a curse and faked info which he brought up while I was silenced. None of those things add up to civ in my book. If I die tonight you'll all see I was civ all along and hopefully that will inspire you to lynch Boogs.

Bullzeye wrote:I have one further thing to say about Boogs. If he really is an info role where are his passionate defences of civs he checked? Surely he'd have used his ability on Made and tried to help him against the tide of people who believed he was bad? What about SVS or Llama, both were regularly discussed and both were civ. Same could be said slightly of MM. Where are his suspicions of other baddies he might have checked?

The answer is simple. He has no info. Also:

Mongoose wrote: I don't think I've been cursed this game, btw.

So neither of Splints' examples of past curses were actually cursed. I'll give her that she was replaced*, so if anyone else passionately believes in the trustworthiness of a blendy player who hinted at info on someone who was incapable of defending themselves and would like to prove Boogs was cursed I make them the same offer: Point to two other people who were cursed (not silenced) or accept that he was probably making it up, just like his ridiculous 'info'.

EBWOP: *Splints came in as a replacement and has said she might not have the best memory of early on.

I have one further thing to say about Boogs. If he really is an info role where are his passionate defences of civs he checked? Surely he'd have used his ability on Made and tried to help him against the tide of people who believed he was bad? What about SVS or Llama, both were regularly discussed and both were civ. Same could be said slightly of MM. Where are his suspicions of other baddies he might have checked?

The answer is simple. He has no info. Also:

Mongoose wrote: I don't think I've been cursed this game, btw.

So neither of Splints' examples of past curses were actually cursed. I'll give her that she was replaced, so if anyone else passionately believes in the trustworthiness of a blendy player who hinted at info on someone who was incapable of defending themselves and would like to prove Boogs was cursed I make them the same offer: Point to two other people who were cursed (not silenced) or accept that he was probably making it up, just like his ridiculous 'info'.

fingersplints wrote:I could get on board with a Mongoose lynch as well. I just feel a bit stronger about bullz at this point.
(if I make it through the night)

Something I have been meaning to mention but keep forgetting, Keterman was NK'd right after calling out juliets. Do we think it's more likely someone was setting it up to look like her or that she actually did it?

linki - I agreed with you Bullz as you quoted me doing. iirc YOU presented the "it's weird such a low poster was targeted idea" in my mind because as you so helpfully pointed out people would associate you with cursing high posters.

I don't know that people would associate me with it, I very rarely have cursing roles. I think I've had about three ever. It's just that that's how I like to play them and I'm pretty set in my ways. My point is you still agreed it was weird to curse a low poster. Boogs had less than 40 posts on the sixth day of a full game with tons of discussion. That is a weird choice of target for a curse no matter who you are. Don't people want their curses to be noticed?

Canucklehead wrote:

fingersplints wrote:To be fair, Boogs has also made it incredibly likely he will die soon as well. He has painted a large target on his back. As much attention as he is getting, baddies won't want to keep a possible info role in the game.

And I think Boogs is telling the truth. I have already pointed out that I think the curse maker is likely to be able to choose the curse based on the variety we have seen. Which you tried to discredit him by saying that we hadn't seen that curse before. In retrospect, you were one of the ones who pushed that it was weird such a low poster was cursed in the first place. Therefore, I think you knew he was cursed since your team probably did the cursing.

I would expect a civvie to be mad too, but your tone and responses don't read to me like a mad civvie.

That's a really interesting observation, splints...

I almost always read angry overreactions as a baddie move...it feels like Bullz is mad that he got found out, the whole "fake infodumping! and we're friendsies, too! Et tu Brute?" thing rings false to me.....but I'm not really sure how I feel about trusting Boogs, because I'm actually also weirded out by the "smiley curse" thing...

I sure would like to lynch that baddie Mongoose, though.... Does no one else see that she's bad?!

I didn't get found out though, that's the thing. I can't believe people aren't seeing the fact that I was silenced when he pushed his info hints as suspicious. Anyone would be angry to be infodumped against. Then factor in that it's a lie. Also factor in that I couldn't even defend myself and could easily have been bandwagoned without being able to say a word and you get a big ball of rage that explodes as soon as it's able to. Me and Boogs have talked on Facebook, he apologised for upsetting me and we're cool now but the fact remains he suddenly appeared with vague hints at info (which he doesn't have) right after I got silenced.

Seriously, I was mad about the infodump. I'd be mad if it was real and I was even more mad because it was fake. See any game where infodumping has happened. I often refuse to vote for victims of it regardless because I think it's horrible. I generally don't like info roles and have killed people in the past for rolehinting. So when someone comes up with fake info hints about me you can be sure I'll be very angry at them.

Also, Splints was one of the ones who pushed that it was weird for Boogs to be cursed too.

fingersplints wrote:Well potentially Mongoose and I can't remember the other I thought may have been atm (maybe Ketterman? idk). I replaced in so my notes are incomplete, which is why I already asked for help with this. Since no one responded it will have to wait until I am able to go through the thread again and compile this information. It won't be today (wed) that's for sure. I might have time tomorrow but idk yet

I will get back to you, and I do still want to discuss other people. I just have to get ready and set off to do stuff. Not sure how often I'll be able to get wifi today to check in

I remember what you're talking about with Keterman and he wasn't cursed. Looking back at his posts he denies it outright and says that for the two posts that looked like he'd been cursed, his keyboard was broken. He also made a bunch of non-cursed seeming posts on the same day. So no points there. Mongoose I don't remember seeming cursed at all but I'll go have a look at her now.

I will entertain the notion that Boogs might not have been faking the curse if you can point me to two or more instances of a player clearly having any kind of posting curse other than silencing.

fingersplints wrote:I did think it was weird, but I have since reconsidered. i'm not going to pretend to be a Boogs expert, but he was lynched in the Hobbit for lying about a curse specifically. (You had btsc with him that game I think so you should remember it well)
Maybe someone who knows him better (other than bullz) can answer me if he seems like that kind of risk taking player that would immediately try it again? Because no offense to him, he doesn't seem like that player to me.

linki - While a game where you silenced high posters is good, I'm not accusing you of having a silencing role. Cursing (choosing any posting restriction) is very different than just being able to silence someone.

He wasn't lying though in the Hobbit. His role secret was that he could be silenced by the other elf sometimes and that happened. He was too honest if anything, what he should have done is lie and say his own role had silenced him. It would have been fine since his power actually got blocked when he was silenced.

To the linki: What I'm saying is if I have a power that can influence posts (silencing OR cursing) I like to make an impact with it. Targeting someone who isn't playing much doesn't make any impact in my opinion. Sure a curse with a minimum post stipulation might light a fire under an inactive player but Boogs only made four 'cursed' posts so if he did have such a curse he probably failed to meet that demand. Even if I was only on a team with someone whose power was to curse I'd still argue we should use that ability on active people.

fingersplints wrote:I agree bullz. Doesn't make sense to me. Like I said it's too convenient. The only reason I can think is that it is his role or a teammates role. He couldn't have anticipated half the players being off the poll. Maybe someone assumed he would be getting some attention that day period

fingersplints wrote:

juliets wrote:

fingersplints wrote:EBWOP: I'd add Boogs to list.

I still have him in the bottom of my middle group if that makes sense.

I get you. I just feel like he is falling under the radar with a convenient posting restriction.

So it was too convenient and you agreed he was a weird choice to curse but now all of a sudden he actually was cursed all along? Hell if faking info is all you need to do to be trusted I've been playing wrong all these years.

fingersplints wrote:To be fair, Boogs has also made it incredibly likely he will die soon as well. He has painted a large target on his back. As much attention as he is getting, baddies won't want to keep a possible info role in the game.

And I think Boogs is telling the truth. I have already pointed out that I think the curse maker is likely to be able to choose the curse based on the variety we have seen. Which you tried to discredit him by saying that we hadn't seen that curse before. In retrospect, you were one of the ones who pushed that it was weird such a low poster was cursed in the first place. Therefore, I think you knew he was cursed since your team probably did the cursing.

I would expect a civvie to be mad too, but your tone and responses don't read to me like a mad civvie.

Mad is mad. I don't see how you can read like a mad civvie or a mad baddie specifically. It's not like I'm laughing maniacally or stroking my evil beard and twirling my nefarious mustache. I'm pretty sure you actually agreed with me that Boogs seemed a weird choice for a curse at the time so this is a strange switch here. Point to any other player who has been cursed at all with anything but a silencing. There aren't any. Boogs is lying. Maybe he actually does think he has info, I don't know. If he does he's just wrong. Otherwise he's lying. It's way too convenient that he comes up with this right as I get silenced. I don't curse low posters. When I have a power that can affect people's posting I strictly target top posters unless the game is really quiet. See X-Men. I was the silencer and chose my targets by looking at the list of who posted and picking the highest one I hadn't yet gone for.

How would you expect a civ to react to being fake-outed while silenced? Should I have thanked Boogs for making it incredibly likely I'll die soon?

fingersplints wrote:I think you are bad, because you are acting bad bullz. Plain and simple. Your little outburst at Boogs yesterday screams baddie.

Nope. It screams 'why the hell would you silence me and then fake info'. I think infodumping is the scummiest (in the literal sense of the word) thing you can do in mafia. It's cheating. It shows a lack of respect for the hosts and players. It's outright cruel. I hate seeing it done to anyone so when fake info is put up against me that isn't something I'll take lightly. Especially if it happens when I'm silenced. I really don't like being silenced either. While I was completely incapable of defending myself Boogs came into the thread and acted like he had info that made me out to be bad. If you'd all followed him I'd have just been totally screwed out of a game I was really enjoying.

I got distracted while making that post and had to rush it but I wanted to say two other things to Splints. First, if you think there are two baddie teams why did you think only one of me or Llama could be bad? I'm discounting the fact it doesn't make any sense in my opinion to connect the two of us like that but if there were two teams surely your opinion on our differences could put each of us on a different baddie team? It's a moot point since neither of us are bad but it does strike me as odd that you completely discounted that possibility based on your own logic.

Also, since you think I'm bad because Llama wasn't, how do you feel about Boogs' hints at info?

nijuukyugou wrote:RIP llama. God was wrong.

Bullzeye wrote:

nijuukyugou wrote: I'd like to believe that he's telling the truth, but people are making good points about why this sort of "info dropping" is being allowed (e.g., a curse). But then again, as others have said, why Boogs? And why twice? Which is the more logical - that the same quiet person is cursed twice by two different people, or that Boogs is actually in his right mind this round and has a genuinely good reason to suspect Bullz? Or just in his right mind and suspects Bullz without a genuinely good reason?

You want to believe a guy who obviously faked being cursed, with absolutely no reason to trust him? A guy who, despite having been blendier than a smoothie, accused me of being bad first because I (one of the highest posters) was apparently blendy?

Bullzeye, be fair. I was speculating in that post, something I don't normally do in the thread, but I wanted to see what others would say, and I'm sorry you were silenced and didn't get a chance to respond while it was happening (honestly, I didn't think about it until you talked again). In the end, I clearly wasn't willing to trust Boogs, as I didn't go in that direction. I stated this. I was willing to listen to further arguments if he had any, especially because his statements about you were out of the blue, but when none came, I didn't vote for you. I even said I had no further suspicion of you. Without any further proof, I still don't see a reason to vote you next round.

You're mad. I get it. But please be fair and don't twist my words, and don't assume that everyone sees an "obviously faked curse" when it doesn't appear "obviously faked" to me. I don't want to play the newbie card, but I often don't see things that appear "obvious" to more seasoned players. I will definitely agree that his behavior has been extra weird this game (I have pointed this out multiple times), but the reason why I even thought to give the idea he proposed a chance was because the combination of that weirdness (all of it - the relative silence, the smileys, and then the "suspicion" of you) just seemed like it would be too risky to perform if he were a baddie. That's all.

Anyway, take it as you will (except as sarcastic - that's truly not what I'm going for). Oh, and totally voting hamster. I love hamsters oh so much

That post reads to me like you were hesitant to be an early vote in a bandwagon but you'd come back later and use those comments to justify jumping on if others had followed Boogs' claims. It looks bad. As far as the curse goes there'd already been discussion that he could be faking the smiley thing the night before I got silenced.

fingersplints wrote:
^ Here he promises he wasn't trying to set me up because he doesn't remember how I play well enough. My point being he specifically wouldn't have to remember me play style well enough, just have a teammate who does. It just read to me at the time, and especially now, like trying to bait me to overreact, without stirring the pot too much. I'd look super suspicious and he didn't do anything.

bullz, I will get to you later ( your last response to me) It's late for you anyways and I have two Boardwalk Empires to catch up on.

Seriously, you're making too big a deal of that comment. Part of it was honestly just an innocent observation. I was also looking for reactions yes, yours or others. Would anyone leap on and say it makes you bad even though I wasn't saying that? Would anyone leap to your defense in an overeager display of protectiveness? Would you overreact? You say if a teammate of mine knew you they could have told me how you act but if that had happened I'd have told them to say it. It would be their idea.

LoRab wrote:Meh at the result. Need to rethink a lot of things, now.

Bullzeye wrote:

Boogs wrote:Bullzeye I didn't fake a curse, and you're taking it way too crazy. While I think you're bad, you don't need to compare me to things and curse at me. I'm not lying when I say I think you're bad and that I feel I know why. Whether people want to believe me or not is up to them.

If you didn't fake a curse what was the only posting in smileys thing about? Because nobody else on any other day in this game has been cursed like that. So I'd believe you're the supreme overlord of the galaxy and have blue skin and three heads before I believe you were cursed that day. You've faked info and basically cheated to try to get me out. Both of those things piss me off. When I'm mad I swear, especially at people who've made me mad. Deal with it. I actually reported you to the hosts for your fake infodumping because it frustrated me that much. Also very convenient for you that I was silenced and unable to defend myself when you started throwing it into the thread, isn't it?

Linki - Roxy messaged you partly because I complained to the hosts that you seemed to be making up fake infodumps about me while I couldn't even defend.

I'm undecided as to this whole discussion right now. But need to take issue with the point that no one else has been cursed in that way this game. Yes, it's possible he faked it. But most cursing roles get to pick a different curse each day--to say that no one else has had a certain curse as part of an accusation just doesn't make sense. and doesn't make your whole argument sound all that convincing, tbh.

My point is nobody seems to have had any kind of posting curse other than silencing. Boogs' smiley thing is the only time. It even lasted into the night, which is unusual for any curse. Not to mention he's a really really strange choice of target for a cursing role given he'd been practically uninvolved up until that point and there was no guarantee he'd even post at all. You might say 'oh well curses usually have a minimum post requirement' and you'd be making a good point but he only made four posts.

fingersplints wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

fingersplints wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:Your opinion of me is apparently based on Llama's alignment when he and I have had little to no interaction of any importance. The only thing we did was win the latest challenge together (along with Dana). Other than that, barely anything. I don't remember ever going after him.

Yes that's right. Based on the number of baddie spots I have in mind for a Rox game of this size, and that you two seemed on opposite sides of everything, I had it as either you were bad or him. (I could be wrong, but I don't believe either of you would have had much reason to recruit Enrique.)

I need to do some reevaluating, but I truly believe you are the best spot to look. Based on my earlier feeling that you may have been setting me up with your comment, I think one of your teammates knows me better than you do. I'm thinking Bea.

Enrique wouldn't be the first person I'd try to recruit. I can't comment on your maths because I have no idea but there are other people I've not interacted with much if at all who are still alive so if (since) I'm not bad, are they? I've forgotten what you mean by setting you up, if you ever mentioned it in thread.

I did and you said something like you don't even remember how I play. I'll find it later if you'd like.

Obviously there are other people besides you who are bad. I'm interested in finding all of them. You and Boogs attacks against each other make it seem like both of you are only interested in getting the other out. That doesn't seem very civvie to me. Why don't you humor us a little and lets discuss people other than Boogs? I still believe there to be two teams so I will take what you say into consideration.

Who do you want to discuss? I think Niju is suspicious regardless of whether or not Boogs is bad for her reaction to his posts. He'd been acting fishy and untrustworthy for a while (the smiley thing was so not a real curse, think about it) yet she 'wanted to trust him'. Why?

I also hold that there must have been baddies on the MM bandwagon. As much as Hedge can say there was discussion of him in the past, and there was, I don't remember MM ever being in real danger of a lynch until he actually died. The majority of discussion against him in my opinion came from me and LoRab and I was genuinely surprised that so many came out of the woodwork to join that vote. I will look over the MM voters when it's not 1:30 in the morning and report back.

JC I'm still not sold either way on. She has done a lot to win me over but I'm still not 100% convinced. She did seem like she was being deliberately blendy early on. I probably won't vote her though until I run out of other people to vote for.

fingersplints wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:Your opinion of me is apparently based on Llama's alignment when he and I have had little to no interaction of any importance. The only thing we did was win the latest challenge together (along with Dana). Other than that, barely anything. I don't remember ever going after him.

Yes that's right. Based on the number of baddie spots I have in mind for a Rox game of this size, and that you two seemed on opposite sides of everything, I had it as either you were bad or him. (I could be wrong, but I don't believe either of you would have had much reason to recruit Enrique.)

I need to do some reevaluating, but I truly believe you are the best spot to look. Based on my earlier feeling that you may have been setting me up with your comment, I think one of your teammates knows me better than you do. I'm thinking Bea.

Enrique wouldn't be the first person I'd try to recruit. I can't comment on your maths because I have no idea but there are other people I've not interacted with much if at all who are still alive so if (since) I'm not bad, are they? I've forgotten what you mean by setting you up, if you ever mentioned it in thread.

Your opinion of me is apparently based on Llama's alignment when he and I have had little to no interaction of any importance. The only thing we did was win the latest challenge together (along with Dana). Other than that, barely anything. I don't remember ever going after him.

fingersplints wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:Linki - that makes no sense.

Was that to me or Boogs?

You.

Boogs wrote:Bullzeye please tell me the top 3 suspects who could have silenced you or who you believe are bad. I want to piece together my side with yours to see if I was misguided and read you wrong, please. I don't like arguing with you but I think us accusing each other back and forth isn't helping either of us figure out who is bad if you are not bad and neither am I then.

You are my number one suspect on that front. After your weird face thing, I got PMed at the beginning of day to say I was silenced and said to myself 'that was Boogs'. My intention for day 7 was to look over the MM voters. I didn't get round to that. Partly because I'd decided you were bad and partly because I thought you might succeed at getting me bandwagoned and prove it for me. Splints suddenly turning on me out of nowhere is iffy, if you really aren't bad I think the baddies are loving us right now. Niju's willingness to follow you caught my eye. JC I pretty much don't think is bad any more.

Linki - you doing this annoys me more because I consider you a friend. That's why I'm so mad, it'd be less frustrating if it was someone I'd never really spoken to. I still think if it wasn't you it was someone who you have btsc with. You've given me no reason to trust you and a lot of reasons to think you're a major baddie.

Extra linki - none of those three are sadistic enough to pit people against each other like that.

Boogs wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Boogs wrote:Bullzeye I didn't fake a curse, and you're taking it way too crazy. While I think you're bad, you don't need to compare me to things and curse at me. I'm not lying when I say I think you're bad and that I feel I know why. Whether people want to believe me or not is up to them.

If you didn't fake a curse what was the only posting in smileys thing about? Because nobody else on any other day in this game has been cursed like that. So I'd believe you're the supreme overlord of the galaxy and have blue skin and three heads before I believe you were cursed that day. You've faked info and basically cheated to try to get me out. Both of those things piss me off. When I'm mad I swear, especially at people who've made me mad. Deal with it. I actually reported you to the hosts for your fake infodumping because it frustrated me that much. Also very convenient for you that I was silenced and unable to defend myself when you started throwing it into the thread, isn't it?

Linki - Roxy messaged you partly because I complained to the hosts that you seemed to be making up fake infodumps about me while I couldn't even defend.

I wasn't making fake things up! I have my reasonings, and maybe the reasonings are incorrect so I'm willing to listen but you yelling at me and saying I silenced you isn't helping me try to figure out what the heck is going on with things on my side. I didn't silence you, I don't have teammates and I'm not bad. I could be wrong about you with the things that have occurred, so please enlighten me and put our brains together so we can figure out what truly happened and who may have silenced you and why you're not bad.

Answer me in as much detail as humanly possible. Why were you only posting in smilies on day six? The posts you have made since day 7 began are the posts of a person with info and no desire to hide it. The only person who knows you don't really have any is me. From my perspective you are most definitely making things up. You've made a lot up. I don't see a scenario in which I don't vote for you as soon as I see the lynch poll tomorrow (other than me being dead, which would be anticlimactic) but feel free to try to convince me not to.

Boogs wrote:Bullzeye, if you were silenced truly, then who would you say would have silenced you if you are not bad and are Civ? I can't think of anyone who would have done that but it would make sense to silence you in hopes of people voting you out for the Baddies advantage.. I'm willing to listen to you and give you a chance, but like I said I think there are probably 2 Baddie teams and I really have a good reason to think you're part of one of them.

Is it not blatantly obvious who I'm saying silenced me? YOU. BOOGS. THE GUY WITH THE CAT AVATAR. THE GUY WHO IS MAKING UP INFO. B. O. O. G. S. Clear enough? To be fair, as soon as I got the message I assumed you'd done it. Your fake infodumps only confirmed it. You have no reason to think anything, let's just drop that pretense right now. Whether there are one, two, or seven billion baddie teams I'm not part of any of them. I was silenced. I can't shut myself up, I have to comment on things, it would be impossible for me to fake it. It would also be stupid. I considered breaking my curse to tell you to get over yourself several times and it took a lot of restraint to not do that. I guess I just respect the rules.

Boogs wrote:Bullzeye I didn't fake a curse, and you're taking it way too crazy. While I think you're bad, you don't need to compare me to things and curse at me. I'm not lying when I say I think you're bad and that I feel I know why. Whether people want to believe me or not is up to them.

If you didn't fake a curse what was the only posting in smileys thing about? Because nobody else on any other day in this game has been cursed like that. So I'd believe you're the supreme overlord of the galaxy and have blue skin and three heads before I believe you were cursed that day. You've faked info and basically cheated to try to get me out. Both of those things piss me off. When I'm mad I swear, especially at people who've made me mad. Deal with it. I actually reported you to the hosts for your fake infodumping because it frustrated me that much. Also very convenient for you that I was silenced and unable to defend myself when you started throwing it into the thread, isn't it?

Linki - Roxy messaged you partly because I complained to the hosts that you seemed to be making up fake infodumps about me while I couldn't even defend.

juliets wrote:

Boogs wrote:I'm not bad Bullzeye. I also know you're not Civ, so vote me if you want but I know what I know. Furthermore, it's up to everyone else to elaborate and decide if they want to believe me or not based on me just saying I Strongly believe you're bad and have for a while now. I don't know how to build a case on you without saying things, but I don't trust you. I think JC is being an excellent actress in this game and I keep reading her posts as fake with a hint of Baddie trying to pose as Civ. Either of you could be bad, maybe you're both on the same team! It's getting harder to win unless the Civs vote the right way, and I think it has to be one of the two of you tomorrow IMO. I'm still thinking there are 2 Baddie teams, and it's way too dangerous since we know Enrique was recruited so out of who's left, who knows how many are. The way you all keep piling on people is scaring me like the Llama train that ended up happening and MM.

Boogs if you think I am baddie then present a case. I'll be waiting to respond to it. I am not a baddie, an indy, a neutral - any of those other roles - I am a civ. If you can't present a case, just like you can't on bullz then I can't trust your judgement as I know I'm civ.

linki

He's not doing cases this game. He's just making ridiculous comments that imply he has info when he knows he doesn't.

Boogs wrote:I'm not bad Bullzeye. I also know you're not Civ, so vote me if you want but I know what I know

You're bad. You're also so full of shit it's a wonder we don't confuse you for a sewer. You don't know anything and to be honest the way you're playing right now is a total dick move.

Boogs wrote:. Furthermore, it's up to everyone else to elaborate and decide if they want to believe me or not based on me just saying I Strongly believe you're bad and have for a while now.

What you're doing is fake infodumping. You're making all these vague comments pushing people toward voting for me as if you have a big reason you can't share (but you don't) in the hope people pile on me. It's how cheaters infodump. It's what you're doing now except in this case you have ABSOLUTELY ZERO INFO AND NO DAMN IDEA WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE EVEN TALKING ABOUT.

Boogs wrote:I don't know how to build a case on you without saying things, but I don't trust you.

You know how to build a case. You just can't because there isn't one. But for whatever reason your team want me out of the way so you're acting like you have info when you don't.

Boogs wrote:I think JC is being an excellent actress in this game and I keep reading her posts as fake with a hint of Baddie trying to pose as Civ. Either of you could be bad, maybe you're both on the same team! It's getting harder to win unless the Civs vote the right way, and I think it has to be one of the two of you tomorrow IMO.

All this says is "I'm a baddie throwing out accusations against anyone who doubts me". It has to be you tomorrow. I won't settle for less. I want your head on a plate.

Boogs wrote:I'm still thinking there are 2 Baddie teams, and it's way too dangerous since we know Enrique was recruited so out of who's left, who knows how many are. The way you all keep piling on people is scaring me like the Llama train that ended up happening and MM.

Ooh scare tactics, that's a civ move if ever there was one. Nice way to distance yourself from everyone else as well. Still, no comment on faking that curse?

Linki - that makes no sense.

fingersplints wrote:goddammit. I'm really sorry llama. I'm also sorry Boogs. I wish I had listened to you. bullz had me fooled. I now know better.

Bullzeye wrote:Well that was the most excruciating day ever. I can't believe nobody seemed to pick up on the fact I was silenced. I'll get to that in a minute but right now everyone better hold on to your butts because I'm about to violently (and boy do I ever mean violently) shake this thread in a manner similar to what might be expected of a wind hitting force 12 on the Beaufort Scale.

Shocking.

Splints I hate infodumping with a passion. If I'd been able to post when he first came out with that fake shit I'd have probably sworn a lot at him. I wouldn't have faked being silenced. I'd have SCREAMED so loud he'd actually hear it in the US.

Okay so first off let me start by saying I'm actually personally offended by what I perceive to be a disrespectful and rude act of cheating taken against me by someone I have quite a bit of respect for.

Boogs wrote:Rip Keterman and MM Okay, guys pleae vote. Bullzeye out! I don't know who his teammates are but he's scum. My kitty senses were going haywire and he was off the poll the last lynch! If you don't want to lynch him, then please figure out who his teammates are and get them.

Boogs wrote:If you ask how I know, my whiskers tingled when he touched me and it didn't feel Civ or Knightlike and I think he's a murderer.

Linki JC I can't unfortunately. Just know, that I know.

Boogs wrote:As I looked through my kitty magic mirror, the image of Bullzeye did appear to be foggy and much darkness surrounded him. The knights of round table thus warned me to not let him go on, but alas the crowd of confused Civs did not believe the kitty and pursue the lead. He has escaped as a minion of Mordred far too long as now is the time to vote the Bullz of the eyes out and banish him back to the darkness which he came! Mrow!

Seriously Boogs what the actual F are these? Because they read like you're hinting at info. AKA infodumping. But I know you aren't because if you had info you'd know I'm a civ. So you're fake infodumping. About someone who conveniently happened to be silenced and unable to defend himself. But then I'd bet you already knew that since you or someone in league with you did it.

FURTHERMORE. The smiley thing from the other day. Nobody in this entire game has ever before or since had a curse anything like that. Which leads me to conclude you were faking. So that's faking a curse and faking info in the space of two days. Now, I'm no farmer, but I know a steaming pile of bullshit when I see one and I'm looking at one right now (imagine I'm looking at your posts).

I don't know why it was me you chose to set up like this but if you want to screw me so badly at least buy me dinner first. I think the baddies have gotten cocky so close to the end. I first thought Llama was your teammate and you were trying to protect him but obviously that isn't the case. Regardless, if your team doesn't kill me tonight I will vote for Boogs as soon as the poll is up and continue to do so until he is dead. I suggest others do the same. You're the baddest of bad news and I'm too much of an optimist to be dealing with that.

thellama73 wrote:I tend to trust Boogs on this, because I don't think he has a strong incentive to lie right now. He was not taking any attention, so he doesn't need to save himself. If he were bad, he could simply stay silent and still have a good chance of seeing a civvie lynched. I don't think anyone was in such immediate, inevitable danger that this kind of hail Mary would be necessary.

Llama clearly wanted to save himself here so I can forgive him for buying Boogs' crap.

nijuukyugou wrote: I'd like to believe that he's telling the truth, but people are making good points about why this sort of "info dropping" is being allowed (e.g., a curse). But then again, as others have said, why Boogs? And why twice? Which is the more logical - that the same quiet person is cursed twice by two different people, or that Boogs is actually in his right mind this round and has a genuinely good reason to suspect Bullz? Or just in his right mind and suspects Bullz without a genuinely good reason?

You want to believe a guy who obviously faked being cursed, with absolutely no reason to trust him? A guy who, despite having been blendier than a smoothie, accused me of being bad first because I (one of the highest posters) was apparently blendy?

Hedgeowl wrote:I have seen SVS convinced Llama was bad before when he was civ, so 'God told us to' seems like a convenient excuse. I will bow down before her almighty ness if I am wrong though.

I am specifically not a fan of info-dumping either, so I hesitate with Boogs' warning of Bullz. However, Bullz' post about the "sudden" suspicion of MM after we had already had a day where Made, MM, and Mongoose were discussed as M for baddie candidates seems off to me. MM had also received lots of scrutiny for the early 'French' comment. I know for one felt that Mongoose was not my top suspect.

Bullzeye wrote:

fingersplints wrote:RIP MM. I felt like some of the votes there were a bit suspicious, and seemed like it was out of nowhere to save Mongoose. Lorab was talking about him for a while, so I think hers could be genuinely misguided.

I was actually surprised so many people jumped onto that vote. I'd had a gut feeling about MM for most of the game but it seemed like nobody other than LoRab really agreed with me until today. There was definitely something fishy going on there.

Here he seems to say, well I voted for MM, but I actually suspected him, unlike all these other bandwagoners. It just doesn't ring entirely true to me.

I do think more suspicion of Bulls is warranted. However, I am going to vote LC this go round. I think he could have done more if he were so convinced SVS was god than just let her be lynched and claim he knew afterwards,

Votes LC

I

Boogs isn't really infodumping, he's just pretending to. He has no info. He has less info than a stone. In fact, I take that back. Geologists could probably learn a lot from a stone. Nobody can learn anything from Boogs in this game except how to suck at being bad, and nobody wants to learn that. As far as the MM comment goes, that wasn't my intention. I had just felt like my suspicion of him hadn't been getting much support and was surprised to see so many people agreed. If I hadn't been silenced I'd have gone through his voters to properly look and see if anyone was jumping onto a bandwagon but then Boogs pretty much outed himself to me.

As I've said, I will be voting Boogs tomorrow if his team don't simply call it quits and kill me tonight. I will be voting Boogs on day nine if he doesn't die tomorrow, and on day ten if he doesn't die on day nine. Lather, rinse, repeat as necessary.

Well that was the most excruciating day ever. I can't believe nobody seemed to pick up on the fact I was silenced. I'll get to that in a minute but right now everyone better hold on to your butts because I'm about to violently (and boy do I ever mean violently) shake this thread in a manner similar to what might be expected of a wind hitting force 12 on the Beaufort Scale.

fingersplints wrote:

juliets wrote:

fingersplints wrote:EBWOP: I'd add Boogs to list.

I still have him in the bottom of my middle group if that makes sense.

I get you. I just feel like he is falling under the radar with a convenient posting restriction.

To be honest, it seems weird to me that someone who has less than 40 posts at this stage in the game would be cursed at all. Wouldn't you use powers like that on more involved players? It's like silencing a low-poster.

fingersplints wrote:RIP MM. I felt like some of the votes there were a bit suspicious, and seemed like it was out of nowhere to save Mongoose. Lorab was talking about him for a while, so I think hers could be genuinely misguided.

I was actually surprised so many people jumped onto that vote. I'd had a gut feeling about MM for most of the game but it seemed like nobody other than LoRab really agreed with me until today. There was definitely something fishy going on there.

Boogs wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

LoRab wrote:Dammit. I hate being wrong.

Me too. I don't understand why he changed his vote to JC at the last minute though. At first I thought he had a lynch switch or something but since he clearly didn't I'm not sure what his aim was there other than to make himself less saveable.

^

Since you clearly keep trying to indicate you think I'm bad I can't wait to hear why. Usually curses end when night begins but anyway, all I remember from you regarding me is a hypocritical and plain wrong accusation of me being blendy. So I'd like to hear more.

LoRab wrote:Dammit. I hate being wrong.

Me too. I don't understand why he changed his vote to JC at the last minute though. At first I thought he had a lynch switch or something but since he clearly didn't I'm not sure what his aim was there other than to make himself less saveable.

Boogs wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:Actually, the points I've made so far have convinced me to *Vote MM*

I look forward to you being more coherent and less blendy, Boogs. Then you can explain why me voting someone I've been suspicious of for a long time earns me your eye and makes you mad.

I don't know when you have and haven't been on, but it was nearly an entire day and you seemed to be around when I first responded to you.

Actually, the points I've made so far have convinced me to *Vote MM*

I see MM had nothing to say in response to my re-explanation of why I find him suspicious. I also have a problem with his vote for LoRab, which he said was 'until she explains why she finds him suspicious'. She offered an explanation and his vote stuck, which makes me feel like it was basically just a NO U.

fingersplints wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:

Long Con wrote:Now Mongoose voted Canuck... Such weird!

Except the opposite because Canuck's not on the poll.

I haven't been getting the civviest feelings from Mongoose's posts, but my real problem is llama. I have been pretty sure he is civ, but reevaluating if I am super off. People said Mongooses defense of him was strange and possibly forced, but I haven't seen a forced defense before. I do remember in Supernatural being forced to do the opposite and make a case on Tranq. Juliets were you the trickster role in that game? Have others seen roles with forced defense before?

I'm trying to remember which game it was (or games for that matter) but I've definitely seen people be forced to post a lot of ways. It could be we are looking at it wrong and that she wasn't forced to defend llama but only just forced to talk about only him - I have seen that before. (or could be llama has that role and is making up the restrictions and wanted some help in the defense department)

My problem is her posting already seems off today, so if she was restricted in some way the last day period she can't be again today (unless the hosts allow double targeting.)

I was forced in Misfits a few weeks ago to post about how suspicious I totally definitely was of Dana but didn't actually have to vote for her, so I could believe in a curse where someone was forced only to talk about a person. It would make me wonder about the person that the curse wanted discussed though.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Okay, let's discuss my comment about the French again, shall we? Here is the important parts.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Here is the original post I made. Here with the next 10 posts or so, is the brief discussion that followed.

Here Dana, fixed the links.

And tell me what is so darn fishy about it.

I've explained it at least once already but I'll happily do so again. It seemed very strange to me, catching up on the thread that morning, that in a game where we don't know any (other than the dead) roles and where the only baddie revealed had no connection to the French, your 'joke' accusation hinged upon there being a baddie team comprised of French roles. It felt like a slip, if I'm honest. Like you accidentally let on that you knew something a civ wouldn't. I can't get over it.

fingersplints wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

thellama73 wrote: I have to admit, as suspicious as I find you. I am fairly tempted to go after a quiet person this time, because I feel like the baddies are letting the noisy people kill each other while they stay silent. After Made and SVS, I am nervous about lynching another very active, high posting player.

Seems like a reasonable plan. Based on today's poll I think I'm going to revisit my suspicions of JC and MM and probably vote for one of them unless something else comes up.

I knew someone had brought up juliets before and I couldn't remember if it was you or bwt, but I was trying to find it again last lynch to revisit those points on her. I'm undecided on MM. Sometimes I think he is making a lot of sense. Other times I feel he is being blendy and is reminding me of how he played in the Hobbit. I too want to look closer at him.

I brought up a few points on JC originally during the course of I think day one? If you search my posts you should find my case on her fairly easily, and I've discussed her quite a bit. As far as MM is concerned, I have more of a gut feeling than anything else. A handful of things he's said have really caught my eye. I particularly can't get over the 'French' comment from a while back.

thellama73 wrote: I have to admit, as suspicious as I find you. I am fairly tempted to go after a quiet person this time, because I feel like the baddies are letting the noisy people kill each other while they stay silent. After Made and SVS, I am nervous about lynching another very active, high posting player.

Seems like a reasonable plan. Based on today's poll I think I'm going to revisit my suspicions of JC and MM and probably vote for one of them unless something else comes up.

Dennis wrote: And how come you never ask me, anyway? I'm a bit pissed off about that, frankly.

Probably because you just ramble on about oppression and the violence inherent in the system :P

Shame to see BWT go, I'd been feeling like he was civ all game. Looks like the baddies have stopped killing each other off as well.