The Syndicate

Well done baddies! I don't think I really suspected any of you that much tbh. I knew I was dead after my lynch failed, but it was interesting to see how people suddenly seemed to know exactly who I was. I was hoping to see some crazy tinfoil theory as to how I could still be a baddie though.

So now can we go back to lynching actual baddies?

borokkuei wrote: And somewhat snow dog, just because he seems to be in a really good place with everyone thinking he's civ. He very might well be civ, but if he's not and everyone else is convinced of his civviness, he's in a very safe spot for a baddy. But really I've got no evidence on that and I'm most likely (like 90% sure) that I'm simply over-analyzing.

If Snow is bad then I need to buy a hat for dinner. I really really think he's a civ based on his votes and actions in the thread and would be amazed if he or SVS were Blue Lasers.

I was asked my opinion of CBK, and didn't really have one so I went to reread her. I still don't have much of an opinion but I do think she could be bad. Voted SVS twice in a row (During Timmer's lynch and right after) and seems in a lot of posts to make a point about how she's really confused by everything that's going on.

Others I think could be bad:
Dom (because he's been hounding me all game but only actually makes anything resembling a case now)
Indi (I know she's supporting me so I feel bad about saying it but I think she could be bad for the reason people think I'm bad)
DF (really blendy)
AP (Dead silent here, I'd forgotten he was alive. Doesn't make me feel great about him)

I think that's it.

Dom wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: Aside from voting for baddies and finding someone I thought could be an SK for good reasons but turned out to be a baddie anyway? This seems to me like you're saying players who don't catch baddies single-handedly and aren't constantly building cases must either be bad or not worth keeping alive anyway. What have YOU done to 'help the civvie cause'?

nice no u.

So you can't think of anything then?

Snow Dog wrote:ebwop...I might have a blind spot where Bullz it concerned. It might be that I want to trust him.

Blind spot or no you're one of the few people on the right track today. You're right to trust me and I think I'm right to trust you.

Dom wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Dom wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Dom wrote: Resigned or a Plan?

Both. I'm resigned to the fact that no civvies care about me being a civ and all the baddies are happy to bandwagon me. My plan, therefore, is to be lynched so all the civs realise they were wrong and hopefully catch the baddies who jumped onto the bandwagon.

you're defense is "no"

People have given me basically NOTHING to defend against other than one vote, which I've explained at least twice, and your whole WIFOM thing which is pretty poor tbh. What else do you want me to say?

I want you to tell me what you have done to help the civvie cause.

Aside from voting for baddies and finding someone I thought could be an SK for good reasons but turned out to be a baddie anyway? This seems to me like you're saying players who don't catch baddies single-handedly and aren't constantly building cases must either be bad or not worth keeping alive anyway. What have YOU done to 'help the civvie cause'?

Dom wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Dom wrote: Resigned or a Plan?

Both. I'm resigned to the fact that no civvies care about me being a civ and all the baddies are happy to bandwagon me. My plan, therefore, is to be lynched so all the civs realise they were wrong and hopefully catch the baddies who jumped onto the bandwagon.

you're defense is "no"

People have given me basically NOTHING to defend against other than one vote, which I've explained at least twice, and your whole WIFOM thing which is pretty poor tbh. What else do you want me to say?

Dom wrote: Resigned or a Plan?

Both. I'm resigned to the fact that no civvies care about me being a civ and all the baddies are happy to bandwagon me. My plan, therefore, is to be lynched so all the civs realise they were wrong and hopefully catch the baddies who jumped onto the bandwagon.

I voted myself because there's really no point in voting for someone else when I'm going to be lynched today. I've explained my side of things and nobody cares, I'm just automatically bad because of that vote. As far as Lost goes JC, that game was at least 50% luck.

S~V~S wrote:Post 3; WHY do people keep voting for themselves??!?!

Also, when I replaced in, I recall I did some defending of you, so I don;t think it is just one vote. But sometimes that is how it happens. If I am wrong I owe you a boon; I will be very surprised if I am.

There have been a couple of suspicions bounced my way all game but it seems like the only reason I'm being lynched today is my vote for you. Dom is basically the only still-living person who has been suspicious of me for more than a week I think. At least the only one I remember. But I voted for myself because I'm not seeing any way out of this other than to be lynched and have my role revealed. You will be very surprised when it is.

S~V~S wrote:Bullz, its all in the timing. You held your vote until the last 10 or 15 minutes of the lynch, hoping someone else would show up, and very realistically expecting (I know I expected it) that I would be lynched since my out of the blue vote for Timmer was not as compelling as potentially nabbing the possible SK. Had Timmer shown in time, I would have been lynched.

Those pesky non voters.

Sorry Bullz, voting for you.

I wasn't hoping anything. You assume I was because you assume I was trying to save Timmer but you know what they say about assuming don't you?

It's fine though. I'm getting bandwagoned today because of one vote and some imagined WIFOM from Dom. Baddies get the day off I guess.

Linki - I don't think I did. I don't really have much of an opinion on CBK but since I'm not going anywhere today I can reread her to try and get one.

Dom wrote: *votes Bullzeye*

Excellent post there. You make lots of well thought out points.

borokkuei wrote:No dom? Well damn.

I have nothing else to go on really except strong sad's public dislike for bullz, possibly based on insider knowledge, so I'll go with that.

There is absolutely no reason to believe Strong Sad has any kind of insider knowledge. His opinion is worth as much as anyone else's, and I can confirm in this case he definitely has no extra knowledge because he's completely wrong about me to the point that it's kinda sad he's wasted so many poems calling me out when he could have gone after actual baddies instead.

DFaraday wrote:I was leaning Bullz out of my suspects already (I'm still on the fence about Indi), and the fact that Strongsad thinks so too does help. I do feel like there was a push to save Timmer, and Bullz seems the most likely of the lot to be Timmer's teammate, imo. I will *vote Bullz*

In what way am I 'most likely'? How am I in any way connected with Timmer other than the fact I voted for SVS instead of him? This is what happened when I voted SVS:

Quite a few people think DP is Trogdor and want to lynch him.
SVS comes in and makes a case against one person among many based on the fact that HE SPECIFICALLY wants to lynch DP. No mention of the fact that he's far from the only person thinking DP is bad. The fact DP even got lynched shows that.
A string of votes comes in based on SVS' case.
I vote SVS because I don't think the way the votes fell looks good for her.

But anyway, it's obvious there's no way I'm going to convince people I'm not bad except to actually get lynched and prove it so *Votes Bullzeye*. Seriously, I give up. Hopefully when you've all realised you were wrong you can get back to going after the actual baddies. Who, btw, will probably all vote for me today.

Dom wrote:
There you go.


Also, please cite YOUR sources. How have I been overdramatic?


I'm moving into my room at school today and seeing people I haven't seen in a few months. I'll be very busy from now on. I'll try and make a few appearances tonight, though.

That comment is basically all I can say, people are calling me suspicious based on one vote which I've already explained. If anyone would like to point out another reason they think I'm bad then I'll happily prove them wrong there but until then I can't really say much else in my defense.

Also this post to MP (I've deleted the quotes in it for easier reading) is a perfect example of what I'm talking about when I say some of your reactions to people are overdramatic/exaggerated. I also pointed this out a while back.

Dom wrote: Wow. You start posting again and you're right back to be suspicious. Seriously? "I'll assume all NK'd players are civvies". You're portraying a worst case scenario as THE scenario. It could be better too. Creating panic? Is that your aim, MP?

WOW
SO BASICALLY SOMEONE WHO SUSPECTS YOU IS BAD
Literally, that's your reasoning!
WHY ARE PEOPLE LISTENING TO YOU!??!!??!

Dom wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:In that case SVS you need to do some reevaluating because voting for me will not net you a laser. Anyone who votes for me votes for a civ.

Who would you advocate a lynch of then?

I think Indi could be bad. Some of your responses to suspicion against you seem very overdramatic and that makes me wonder. SVS and Snow I think are likely not to be bad just based on their vote histories. Everyone else I don't really have an opinion on.

Dom wrote:Bullz, I just find it quite interesting that you claim civvieness based on WIFOM. And when I find that claim a tad suspicious, you say my case is WIFOM.

My case is that you are using WIFOM to say you are a civvie. That is not a WIFOM case. That is me thinking that baddies civvies wouldn't build up their civvie-ness from day 0 based on a simple wifom argument. They wouldn't need to.

Show me where I'm doing this. I've not said anything along the lines of "I'm obviously a civvie because of this and that" at all and if you want to say that I am I will call you a liar until you prove it. I haven't been 'building up' anything. I haven't tried to claim civvieness based on getting and revealing day 0 info, you may have interpreted my actions that way but it's far from the truth.

In that case SVS you need to do some reevaluating because voting for me will not net you a laser. Anyone who votes for me votes for a civ.

Dom wrote: Really, I've suspected you since the get go. You are claiming civvie-ness based on a small token of wifom on day 0. And it's suspicious that you did that in the first place...

I'm claiming civvie-ness based on the fact that I AM a civ. I revealed my info because I had info and was told we could reveal it.

Dom wrote:What if I told you I got info on the poll, but was told it would benefit me individually, and not the civvs as a whole, and thus, when Bullz decided it was time to say that that option was "his" and started claiming civvie-ness from it...

But I didn't say anything until now because we collectively decided that no one else should come forward and say that they got information...

I would say it's strange that you suddenly come out with it now rather than say so at the time despite what we 'collectively agreed'. I had info to vote for the option we both voted for and was also told it would benefit me individually. However IMO a benefit to one civ is a benefit to all, just as a benefit to one baddie benefits their entire team.

But you know, Bullz is just 100% civvie because he said he got info... because a baddie would NEVER do that

...Or is that what they want you to think?

Yes, we have all gone under the assumption that bullz is civvie based on WIFOM.

You're saying WIFOM a lot with regard to me but I'm not seeing a case here based on anything other than where hypothetical wine is or is not.

He has been doing htis kind of stuff since day one, hasn't he? Maybe it's about time we listen to him.

Or not. Because he's wrong. Just because we know that it's the opinion of a civ doesn't mean it's definitely correct. Lynch me if you like but you won't be lynching a baddie.

Wow, Strong Sad really wants me dead from the sound of his poems. They don't change the fact that he's wrong to call for my lynch.

S~V~S wrote:
And Bullz, yes, "Are" awesome, but I meant specifically as a baddie, in that context, you were awesome in that game. Go Others and I am sure you are awesome still.

Others for life! Best evil team ever, no question. I am generally an awesome baddie and a terrible civ, but as a civ in this game I think I've done better than usual. I'm still a civ though. If people give me more to defend against than a vote that looks like a save I'll respond but right now I've run out of defenses.

Captain Bunny Killer wrote: I could see the possibility of Bullz baddiness, but remind me, SVS, why it's clear you're civ? Seriously, I may have just missed an argument. Of course, I find it suspicious that you lump me in with these, but then you have no way of confirming that I know I'm a civ. Are you still going off of my vote last time?

SVS lead the charge against Timmer which makes it look very unlikely she'd be a Blue Laser, and the Teen Girls are all dead so she can't be one of them.

S~V~S wrote: I don't find it hard to believe Bullz is bad. He was recruited by my team in what must have been the longest BTSC of all time, LOST Revolution. It was a few months, I think. In any case, you should have seen him, sitting in our chat discussing what we wanted to know from the civs, then going into the civ chat being all innocent and trustworthy. The same in the thread, he had them totally, totally hoodwinked. He was awesome. He is capable of almost anything. And I say that from respect

He could have gotten info, in one game I played recently, I was a baddie and was told the civvie option. The last lynch before he was not here, the Timmer lynch, I really think it was a clear save.

You're far too kind, but... 'WAS awesome'? I would think you should know by now I'm ALWAYS awesome . Except when I voted you instead of Timmer. That was pretty damn lame, but I wasn't trying to save him. It just weirded me out that all these votes on him suddenly appeared when I don't think he'd been mentioned a hell of a lot up until then. If you vote for me you'll be voting for a civ. I on the other hand will attempt to vote for a baddie.

Dom wrote: Bullz still looks bad to me as he has since day 2...

I was dead on day 2. What exactly did my metaphorical corpse do that caught your attention so badly? You've never actually said.

Sorry i missed have had basically no signal all day but would have voted dp anyway. be back home tomorrow

Dom wrote:

Matahari wrote:Yay, finally! I nominate Indy, DF, Bullzeye, and CBK, for further scrutinization. Thank you.

DF and Bullz, especially, tbh

Care to actually make a case rather than constantly say how uneasy you feel about me?

Not to mention, I'm basically not around all weekend so if I do get bandwagoned while I'm not on that will suck.

S~V~S wrote:Wow I so thought I was dead

And it wasntb a big case, Indi or Bullz or whomever said that. I justthought he was being opportunistic.

I said big case but I wasn't being literal. It was big in that it had a big effect though. For the record I don't actually think you're bad now, you could be a Teen Girl but I doubt it. I still kinda want to lynch DP though and I'm not being opportunistic

Good job on Timmer, glad we got a BL out of the way!

S~V~S wrote:A lot of people are in and out of this thread tonight, but no one is saying a thing (except Indi).

I think people may have an expectation about how I may flip, and they may or may not be right, but none of that affects how I see what happened here today.

I voted Timmer becasue i though he seemed opportunistic, and that he might be bad. His teammates hung back, hoping to see more people show up and vote. People were more likely to vote for me being as I have been being mentioned as bad on and off for days. No one is showing up to vote, then Bullz & Indi vote within 5 minutes of each other... and no one else but Timmer showed up to vote. And they did not vote for me becasue they thought I was Trogdor~ they voted for me becasue I voted for Timmer.

The implication made was that I (and the people who voted for timmer after me) were voting for him to save DP, and that it was unnerving that several people found Timmer suspish.

Well, maybe several people found him suspish becasue he was suspish. Like I said, i expect to die tonight. And when you see I had no BTS, really think about what happened today. If Timmer dies, not I, and he flips civ, I will change my sig to whatever Timmer wants for a month on all sites. Which is a another way of me saying i will eat my hat. Not a fan of hat eating, am I.

I found it strange that you came in all of a sudden with this big case on Timmer based on him wanting a DP lynch when he's far from the only person who thought DP was Trogdor and therefore someone we need dead. Obviously you were right about him anyway but can you not see how it might look odd to an observer? Especially when your vote seemingly triggers a bunch more votes on him.

I don't know how I feel about Timmer but I find it really strange that SVS quickly jumped in against him and a bunch of people just followed her vote. Since she doesn't want people voting DP, and he's the only other person I'd be prepared to vote for today, I'll instead *Vote SVS*

indiglo wrote:Didn't notice anything blatantly bad in DP's posts. (Though admittedly, I don't have a ton of experience with him.) Just someone who is not engaged in the game and isn't participating. He hasn't posted since August 22, I'm surprised he hasn't been modkilled yet, tbh. Maybe he will be eventually. At any rate, I doubt we're going to be seeing him any time soon.

CBK, now there's a thought! Look at who MP was looking at. My question would only be was he speculating on some of his suspicions, or were they all based on something reliable. Does that make sense? Even info roles can speculate incorrectly. Maybe I'll look back and see what his posts sounded like, and how certain/reliable his suspicions may be.

It has kind of unnerved me how quickly SVS mentioned Timmer and then several others jumped in and voted him immediately.

I still think there's something to the DP=Trog theory and don't see why we wouldn't kill him if it's true, since we need Trogdor dead no matter how many people he's failed to kill. I do agree with your point on SVS, that caught my eye as well.

timmer wrote:Reading back, I'm strongly considering voting for DP. Every single post of his is either jokey or an apology for not posting more.

And this post is almost an admission that he's just jumping on whatever bandwagon there is:

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:Well I likely won't be awake for the lynch, so I'm just going to vote A Person since I'm seeing his name thrown around so much. I'll do some form of reading tomorrow.

I'd ask others to read back through DP's posts (it won't take long) and then tell me if you think he's coasting or truly just absent-ish. I don't want another wasted lynch, but I feel like DP's posts are a bit convenient.

I will definitely take a look back at him. I've had him at the back of my mind for most of the game as a Trogdor suspect.

timmer wrote:I thought gleam was dead?

He is, he was NKed by... the Blue Lasers maybe? I don't remember and am too lazy to check.

Wow, without MP this game is suddenly really quiet. Who is everyone thinking of looking at/voting for today?

juliets wrote:Bullz isn't that only true under the theory that all 6 people who got info were civvs?

No because he voted the same option as me, so that theory (which I've scrapped anyway) would've had more than one civ receiving the same info.

Snow Dog wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:@Dom: I feel you led the charge a bit earlier in regards to your case on MP. Like I said though, I need to read back on both you and Timmer. I don't feel like I have a good read of you.

Thank you.

Anyone else feel similar about Dom?

I started out thinking he might be a particular civ but I've been gradually becoming less and less sure of him.

Can you say which Civ?

Which one isn't really that important since I've changed my mind on it, I just thought that his vote on day 0 was based on info, which would've meant he'd be a civ too.

Snow Dog wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:@Dom: I feel you led the charge a bit earlier in regards to your case on MP. Like I said though, I need to read back on both you and Timmer. I don't feel like I have a good read of you.

Thank you.

Anyone else feel similar about Dom?

I started out thinking he might be a particular civ but I've been gradually becoming less and less sure of him.

Snow Dog wrote:I haven't chosen a hut for a few nights now. I'm sure others haven't too. Absentees and so forth.

I keep thinking about not doing it and then thinking but what if tonight's the night he does send in a PM. I don't wanna get burninated again.

Snow Dog wrote:I don't know who Silent Rip is.

He could learn things about people but not necessarily get a clear indication of their alignment. Sort of explains his views on certain players like Llama and Devin.

juliets wrote:wow, whats up with all the non-voters

Yeah, eight people have two minutes to vote. Really guys?

I'd completely forgot the poll ended today. I'm gonna vote MP because he seems to just want out and honestly I think it'll be better for him if we give him what he wants here.

MovingPictures07 wrote: Devin hinted multiple times subtly and then blatantly once that he knew exactly how he survived an NK and we haven’t seen Coach Z jail anyone so I strongly have believed that he was Coach Z and that he chose to protect someone Night 1 and himself Night 2 (it would explain why there was no NK on Night 2 from the baddies and his subsequent behavior). I have expressed this previously. To further back up that argument, I’ve thought about this a lot and I now believe the only one thing he said he had lied about this game (because this has continually stumped me) was whether he had info on Day 0 and that he must have somehow been awarded a resurrection as a result of the Day 0 poll. Because he voted Coach Z’s locker room (and "randomized" it) and was the only one to do so, it’s the only explanation I can think of has to how he was awarded a resurrection and chose Bullzeye to receive it, and I only recently came to this conclusion after already believing he was very likely to be Coach Z. It only adds to my belief in that regard.

I highly doubt that's how he earned a rezz. When I was told which day 0 option to vote Daisy's wording was very specific in that I'd only receive any benefit if my option won, not just if I voted for it. Also I just don't think there'd be three options in the poll which all benefit civs. Also if he'd had info to vote Coach Z's locker room then he isn't necessarily Coach Z himself. I was told to vote for the Strong Sad option and that isn't my role...

JC, if you think Devin might not have actually rezzed me how else would you explain it? Nobody challenged his claim or offered an alternative at the time and I have no idea how I came back.

S~V~S wrote: Also, since he has also been very AWOL, why me or DP, but not Faraday?

That's actually a good point. I at first thought DP was Trogdor for the same reason Lizzy did, but I thought it was too crazy a theory to share and apparently she didn't As Trogz is probably AWOL it could just as easily be DF.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Damn! RIPIYWG Mongoose, but I was thinking you were. Conversely, RIH Gleam, unless I was wrong about you, then RIPIYWG. Good move by Firebert, I think.

Snow Dog wrote:Gleam was the first person to vote Vompatti. How does that square with him being the cheerleader?

Gleam can't be lynched. Also, he voted Vompatti D1, with a weird reason. If anything, you could just as likely interpret it as distancing than as not.

Gotta go.

Weren't you among the people telling Gleam that just because Llama survived a lynch didn't mean he was unlynchable? Seems a strange turnaround if you were.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Also,

This thread is no place for a mighty warrior!!!

/night hides

Well that's lucky because I see no mighty warriors around!

I'm just trying to be funny and quasi-quoting Homestar Runner since I haven't really gotten a chance to do that yet this game.

Also, Bullz, I meant to say earlier, do you recall how Devin said there was one thing he lied about this game? What do you suppose that one thing is?

Okay, seriously, now gone.

I'm just trying to tease you because I haven't teased enough people in this game.

I do remember Devin's comments, it's interesting but I dunno what he was referring to. Could be worth a look back.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Also,

This thread is no place for a mighty warrior!!!

/night hides

Well that's lucky because I see no mighty warriors around!

Mongoose wrote:Here's a thought -- if Trogdor was truly dead, would our host have us send in hut choices? I can see why yes/no, because if not, we would know he was dead and that's the point if he wasn't killed in the day poll. Anyone else wanna weigh in on this?

I'm definitely in the Trogdor Lives camp.

I could see Daisy having us carry on sending in hut choices if Trogster had died at night. It keeps us on our toes. However, I'm also in the same camp as you. Speaking of which I just realised I have to send in my choice!

Wow, I guess day 1 sucked for the Teen Girls then, two way tie between half their members.

Snow Dog wrote:Vompatti has been here all game so it's rather odd that they had no night kills don't you think?

Yes, very. Perhaps they just had bad luck with their targets.

In a bit of a hurry - going to vote Vomp because I feel some good points have been raised about him and I'd kinda forgotten he was even still alive.

BigDamnHero wrote: personally, I'm not sure what to make of Bullzeye. After his death, he seemed to be given instantaneous civilian cred and then he was brought back somehow (supposedly by Devin, if those claims were believed to be true) and has coasted by really ever since. I can't say what his affiliation is one way or another. I think a lot of assumptions have been made about him and taken as fact for so long that no one has really bothered to question it until now.

Devin claimed to rez him which made me consider devin to be the king of town...but then there was the tragic Lizzy lynch which revealed SHE was the king. Now everything I thought about Devin has to be thrown out the window, and leaves me with the following questions:
Was Devin REALLY the one to rez Bullzeye? If so, then how (since he wasn't the king)?
If not, then why would he try to claim that he did & why hasn't anyone else come forward to dispute it?

I think I may want to go do a readthrough of Bullzeye and see if anything else particularly stands out about him.

I don't think I was given any civ cred, I think what happened was that when I came back I couldn't be lynched for the day so there was no point discussing me then, and by the time I could be lynched people had just forgotten about me in a way. I have no problem with people looking at me, I would hope that they do and are able to conclude from my posts that I've always had the civvies' best interests at heart.

I'm almost entirely sure Devin did rezz me because nobody ever appeared to challenge that claim. Really my question isn't how he rezzed me but why he used what appeared to be his only rezz opportunity on someone that wasn't him and wasn't a confirmed civ, which leads me to believe he somehow had info (I've had an ability similar to this, where I had a rezz and 3 dead role checks, ostensibly to find the best person to rezz). There are roles with secrets and there are apparently secret events as well so there could be any number of explanations for Devin's actions.

Dom wrote: I don't really see how I've been overreacting. At all. But whatever.

Pretty much all your responses to MP in this post seem really overdramatic and exaggerated. As to your incredible uneasiness about me, look all you like. It's a shame Mr F isn't here any more, the two of you could make a great team barking up the wrong tree after me

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:On another note, what do players think of Bullzeye?

I think he's the smartest, most attractive and funniest player there has ever been. Also totally a civ.

So why did Devin resurrect you, you think? Or was he lying?

I wish I knew. He was probably telling the truth, but I have no idea what possessed him to bring me back. Perhaps he somehow found out my role and thought I'd be good to have around.

MovingPictures07 wrote:On another note, what do players think of Bullzeye?

I think he's the smartest, most attractive and funniest player there has ever been. Also totally a civ.