The Syndicate

To be honest I think Wilgy's strategising in our btsc was pretty good, he came up with a few of our kills and had good logic behind them so maybe he should be it. As for roleplay Epi is the obvious winner.

This game was awesome and my first win in nearly two years! Thanks a lot for a fun game, hosts. Also I absolutely loved my team and trying to work out what the hell was going on in btsc. Will all the btsc/spectator threads be made public?

I thought you wanted Daisy lynched? Where has this sudden Epi suspicion come from?

Nerolunar wrote:

Quin wrote:With four mafia down and still so many night kills, I think it's possible that the game setup itself could account for at least one of the night kills. I'm not sure how, though. I would suspect it has something to do with individual star signs, though.

Nero has me extremely confused, and I hope he can expand on his 'I don't know' attitude. There is no reason for him to lie about how he survived a lynch. Nobody has chimed in to take responsibility of his survival, either. If we were to consider rogues in this game he would be my top suspect.

My thoughts on Bullzeye still stand, as usual. But he takes the backseat today as I am feeling a Nero lynch.

I didn´t get a message or anything that explained why I survived.

Why would you have had a message? The explanation will presumably be part of your role. I can't see any explanation for your survival or any reason for you to deny knowledge of what happened.

*Votes Nero*

I know. Nero saved himself. It'd be less suspicious if he'd just claimed to have a one-time survival power. The fact he denies knowing what happened makes me think he has something to hide.

At this stage of the game it literally makes no sense for that to be true. With potentially three kills still in existence, if you'd died in that lynch the game's population could've halved overnight. Nobody is saving someone they aren't in a team with.

Or Sorsha did it tbf because that last second vote flip "Oh I just wanted to see what Daisy would do, totes wasn't really gonna vote you I promise" doesn't look shifty at all...

Well then that would have to mean Quin saved you since you deny having done it. We'll see what he says.

Well if you had a lynch stop or survival ability there'd be no reason for you to deny it. If someone else had a lynch stop there'd be no reason for them not to save it for themselves.

That reaction seems incredibly false. G-Man was a civ and happily admitted he knew how he survived, and Llama claims to have the same power while MM implied others might to by saying he doesn't view that mechanic as a power role. So for you to say you don't know what happens feels really fake to me.

Because I'm nothing if not a pessimist.

I don't have a strong opinion on Daisy yet. I kinda always want to view her as civ. She didn't answer my question about Llama, which I guess could be suspicious in itself but maybe she just didn't see it or I didn't see her reply. I'm kinda waiting for her to swoop in and vote for me at any minute now since she's the only one not to have voted yet.

Sorsha wrote:You have been basically throwing your votes away though. Easy to say he's obviously civ after he's dead, it wasn't obvious to me or I wouldn't have voted him.

I've been giving Arkham more attention than this game. On day 1 I didn't think there was anything that had been said that I thought worthy of a vote, so I did something that wouldn't have made sense for me to do if I was bad. Yesterday I had a minor ping from Llama and didn't like any of the bandwagons that were coming in. I'd say I've thrown away 50% of my votes. During the night, in light of G-Man's lynch, I gained some new opinions. As to the second half of your comment:

Bullzeye wrote:I think G-Man is a civ, but if he'd saved anyone but me in the last lynch I'd have assumed he was deliberately taking a dive to protect a teammate. Since I know he wasn't doing that, I feel okay about him for now. I think this vote is going to end up being process of elimination for me.

This is one of the most generous readings I've given anyone this game, and it came before G died. As I pointed out last night when I asked you about your vote, Sorsha, you actually didn't seem all that suspicious of G-Man other than a few off-handed remarks about liking a point made by Wilgy - who has since been proven to have been a baddie.

Of the three people I asked questions to last night, the only one who actually answered was probably gonna be the one I'd vote for. Of the two remaining, if I weren't having to save myself today, I wouldn't mind casting a totally not-random vote for Sorsha.

To be fair Sorsha, I didn't vote for a guy who was obviously a civ yesterday and contribute to getting him killed.

I could be convinced to vote for nearly anybody today, tbf. I don't particularly trust anyone.

I guess I'm voting Nero to save myself then.

Quin wrote:By the way, that was rude as heck.


I would be inclined to vote for Bullzeye. He was incredibly defensive against my question yesterday which I didn't like. He even tried to label it as 'random voting' although it was clearly not. His truly random vote on Day 1 is still a significant ping for me.

I am not seeing Epi in the same light as everyone else, especially now. I feel like Wilgy was extremely unreasonable in the way he interrogated and still voted for Epi. I guess this explains why.

If you think that that was me being defensive... let alone incredibly defensive... that just shows you don't know me at all. I always get accused of being overdefensive no matter what I say or what my alignment is (to be honest I think some people just say it to me because they've heard it said about me before) and it used to bother me quite a bit but more recently I've really just stopped caring. I do think it was appropriate to describe what you were trying to do as random, because you just threw votes down on names and expected them to explain why it was a bad idea. It may have been a reasonable strategy, but it still would've been a random vote if you'd just left it on someone because they hadn't said anything to you.

Questions for a few people:

@Daisy: you said you didn't think both Llama and G-Man could be civs. Does this mean you now suspect Llama?

@Sig: How did you go from Epi won't be getting your vote for a few reasons, to not liking the votes on Epi but not minding if he was lynched, to outright deciding he's now bad? What has changed other than him surviving a coinflip?

@Sorsha: Why exactly was G-Man your 'original suspicion'? In looking over your posts all I see is a couple of references to a point made by Wilgy. Doesn't look like something you were particularly passionate about.

Epi gets a pass for his G vote IMO because it was the obvious choice for him to make.

Also I thought G-Man was one of the most obvious civs going, no idea where that lynch came from.

sig wrote:So right know I'd be good with an Epi lynch tomorrow.

Why? Does G-Man being civ mean Epi can't be?

Sorsha wrote:

Quin wrote:

sig wrote:

Quin wrote:

sig wrote:

Quin wrote:

G-Man wrote:My evening itinerary is dinner, bottle, bath time, story, and tuck in. The first two are complete and I'll return after completing the others.

I think I'll change and come back to G-Man. Bubby's take priority, after all.

Sig, your turn.

My turn for what?

'What makes you a bad lynch'?

Why would I be a good lynch? I haven't done anything suspicious I don't think, I've made cases and stated my opinion of people, and have been an active town player.

What makes you a bad lynch?

I ask questions, make reasoned assumptions and provide my opinions when due. And I think that is crucial to giving town the advantage in lynches.


I put forward my question (and vote) for Sorscha now.

What makes you a bad lynch?

Because I'm not bad and in here trying to at least find some baddies.

I don't like bullz vote this round either. He criticized players who voted him yesterday for voting a player who wouldn't be around to defend himself and he just did it himself now.

I also really didn't want to but didn't have much choice and said I didn't think he should actually be lynched.

I've stayed up til 2am hoping to find something worth voting on and not been able to do so I'm gonna put my vote on Llama, even though I don't necessarily think he should be lynched today when he hasn't had a chance to defend, because I did find his Nero comment quite pingy. Also if Daisy is right that only one of he and G-Man can be civ, then my money is on G being the civ.

I think G-Man is a civ, but if he'd saved anyone but me in the last lynch I'd have assumed he was deliberately taking a dive to protect a teammate. Since I know he wasn't doing that, I feel okay about him for now. I think this vote is going to end up being process of elimination for me.

The fact I'm not a baddie makes me a bad lynch. Like seriously what else do you expect me to say.

I don't know why you think I have info to give you.

By voting randomly.

Quin wrote:Let's do it this way.

I voted for bullzeye, simply because he's at the top of the list. Nothing more, nothing less.

How would you convince me to change my vote, bullzeye?

I mean I'd start with the fact that that's no better (arguably worse) than my random vote yesterday that nearly got me killed.

I say relatively new, he's been here like 6 months but it doesn't feel that long to me. Talking Heads seems like it was just yesterday.

Quin wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Quin wrote: What pinged you about Wilgy's doctor claim? Obviously if somebody claims a role that early it should be discussed. And nobody else seemed to be interested in it.

Wilgy pretty much always begins games by saying he most definitely is/is not a doctor. Nobody who knows this will have seen anything unusual with him doing so this game. Assuming that's what you're referring to anyway.

Would daisy be aware of this? If its a common thing I wonder why she would take it seriously.

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure. I mean I'd expect her to but maybe she hasn't played with him very often - Wilgy is relatively new around here and Daisy doesn't seem to play a lot any more.

Quin wrote: What pinged you about Wilgy's doctor claim? Obviously if somebody claims a role that early it should be discussed. And nobody else seemed to be interested in it.

Wilgy pretty much always begins games by saying he most definitely is/is not a doctor. Nobody who knows this will have seen anything unusual with him doing so this game. Assuming that's what you're referring to anyway.

Epignosis wrote: I hope your beer is flat.

In all the years I've known you Epi, I never imagined I'd see you say something so cruel to another human being.

thellama73 wrote:Wow, busy day. Sorry I haven't been around guys.

I am sympathetic to the votes on Nero, because I have a theory.

My theory is this, and this is what my theory is. Ahem. The theory that I have (which is mine) is that hosts are more anxious about replacements when the absent player is mafia than when they are civ. Especially in a game like this, an absent baddie would be deadly to the mafia cause. They would need a replacement immediately. Much less urgent with the civs, because there are more of us. Nero replaced in fantastically quickly. Just sayin'.

This is quite an opportunistic theory, because while it might be the case that hosts are anxious to replace baddies moreso than civs, Bubbles needing to be replaced is no indicator of her alignment. Nero can't possibly be expected to provide a defense to this argument though and you know it.

I don't particularly like the votes on Epi or Nero. I'd rather not vote either. I will be around for at least another hour to decide exactly who I do want to vote.

What a weird night... It looks like Sloonei was attacked twice? Does that mean there are three killers out there?

G-Man wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

G-Man wrote:I just thought it worth mentioning since people are giving Epi heat. His vote helped to save Bullzeye but it wasn't the last word. No one has yet asked me why I didn't try saving myself. You would all be wondering that one had I actually been lynched.

hey, why this?

If I had died, you guys would have wondered about my vote. I am highlighting the fact that it's treated as a non-issue today. Did nobody notice my vote or is it because I didn't die?

All other points of discussion are valid and I apologize for derailing.

It pretty much is a non-issue. You knew you weren't going to die - that explains why you didn't save yourself. You probably deliberately allowed yourself to be lynched in hopes of gaining civ cred upon surviving.

G-Man wrote: Bullzeye posts a lot of fluff, randomizes a vote and takes off. He then gets huffy about some of us finding random votes sketchy. Lastly, he also backtracks on his "quiet game" claim when called out. He's contradictory but also feels like he's too easy of a target.

I didn't backtrack, I just accepted your point of view. I would still call this game quiet and argue that not much (if anything) worthwhile had happened before I had to vote.

Sloonei wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Bullzeye is claiming that randomized votes are not uncommon, but where I come from they sre so rare that to do it once would pretty much be a death sentence. Can anyone back him up on that?

Random voting on Day 1 is not uncommon here, but there are seveal of us who heavily frown upon it. I, personally, think it is idiocy and have never done it.

Do you think it's a strategy that would be used by a scum player in the way Bullzeye did it?

What possible reason would I have for choosing to do that as a baddie? Like is it a tactic a baddie would use? To draw so much attention to myself? What have I gained from random voting?

G-Man wrote:Fun fact: I changed my vote after Epi voted for me. I could have voted for Bullzeye and forced a tie-breaker but didn't.

This is meaningless and frankly suspicious to mention given you obviously knew you'd survive. It proves nothing.

G-Man wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:I don't see how there's a larger chance at all, all I did was randomize a vote on day one in a small, quiet game. People are acting like I microwaved their families..

Day 0 and 1 may have lacked substance but it wasn't quiet. I think 6.5 pages of posts by lynch #1 is pretty vocal. Maybe not for full games, but for a heist game it's good. We're running about even with Arrested Development's post count at the moment. I don't necessarily want you lynched yet but you're not making sense. I'm at work but I will run some ISO's during lunch hour.

Okay it's a relatively busy game but I hadn't seen anything I found suspicious so I made a completely justified decision that lots of people make in similar situations.

thellama73 wrote:Bullz, are you teammates with Epi?

If he's a civ then yes. If not then no. Are you?

Nice to see some of you are up for an easy bandwagon on someone who isn't going to defend themselves Hadn't realised it suddenly became completely unacceptable to randomize on day 1 of a game with minimal discussion. I'd usually have voted a low poster but just didn't feel like it this time because the game has been generally pretty quiet.

Sloonei wrote:

sig wrote:I don't like Bull's vote for Sorsha, it seems like a good excuse to cast a vote without having to back it up. I especially don't like that this is such a small game and he randomized his vote.

Thoughts on this?

It's certainly not an ideal method for casting a vote, but I can understand the sentiment. I'd like to see him at least take a stab at giving a reason, but if he sincerely felt any reason he could offer would be contrived and false, then randomizing isn't much worse. I can't help but acknowledge that's absolving himself of any guilt in the process, though. It will be damning if he remains non-committal down the line.

What guilt is that? I didn't have a reason to vote for anyone so I just threw out a random one. It's really not a big deal people do it all the time.

Sorsha wrote:Is that video showing up?

Is it acceptable to no u vote bullz since his voted sucks so bad? I'm only half joking, I don't have any good suspicions now.

It's not like you were ever in any danger anyway. If the randomizer had fallen to someone with votes, I wouldn't have voted that person.

Sloonei wrote:Voting Bullzeye for a combination of this:

Bullzeye wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I have decided that I like Nerolunar. Welcome Nerolunar. I am also displeased that my rainbow list didn't generate much response. I am following Sloonei and switching my vote to Wilgy, because I colored him red and he didn't seem to mind.

What is there to say to your rainbow list? It is a list of names. You didn't offer any elaboration on anything so it's hard to offer commentary.

Also G-Man has a very interesting definition of having been absent. I was posting through day 0, which was a quiet day where not much happened, and was in bed for the first 9 hours of today. It's not like I'm a no-show.

and this:

Bullzeye wrote:Randomizer said *Sorsha*. Now I'm off to hopefully stop coughing long enough to get some sleep

I wish I had more to offer, but the RYM game kept me very busy (i was town and got lynched at lylo. ) and now i am going out.

What exactly is wrong with the first post? Llama shouldn't be surprised there wasn't much initial response to his list, and G-Man's vote for me was ridiculous.

sig wrote:There is a larger chance Bull's is mafia imo. I'll be switching to him.

Interesting how you suddenly come rushing out to save G-Man when you think he's in danger. I don't see how there's a larger chance at all, all I did was randomize a vote on day one in a small, quiet game. People are acting like I microwaved their families.

Epignosis wrote:

Quin wrote:Epi, what was it that convinced you to vote G-Man over bullzeye?

I posted on one of them and I didn't post on the other. Bullzeye has a British accent that girls find hot, so I probably should've voted him instead.

I'd like to know where all these girls are, I've never met anyone who considered my accent (or anything else about me) hot...

Randomizer said *Sorsha*. Now I'm off to hopefully stop coughing long enough to get some sleep

For some reason I thought we had 48 hour days... Good job I thought to check. Not sure who to vote for though so might just random it :P

Oh, Llama you were referring to your own post? If I'm sweating it's because I've got the flu. I don't care about my position in your rainbow list, but you were crying about nobody responding to it so I offered an explanation as to why that might be.

thellama73 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I have decided that I like Nerolunar. Welcome Nerolunar. I am also displeased that my rainbow list didn't generate much response. I am following Sloonei and switching my vote to Wilgy, because I colored him red and he didn't seem to mind.

What is there to say to your rainbow list? It is a list of names. You didn't offer any elaboration on anything so it's hard to offer commentary.

Also G-Man has a very interesting definition of having been absent. I was posting through day 0, which was a quiet day where not much happened, and was in bed for the first 9 hours of today. It's not like I'm a no-show.

Are you starting to get worried, Bullz?

I just don't like it being said that I'm not participating in the game when that's blatantly untrue.

Linki Sig - because I misunderstood his intentions. I thought he was saying that voting for Bubbles was guaranteed to not lynch a baddie and that seemed suspicious to me because how would he know that.

thellama73 wrote:I have decided that I like Nerolunar. Welcome Nerolunar. I am also displeased that my rainbow list didn't generate much response. I am following Sloonei and switching my vote to Wilgy, because I colored him red and he didn't seem to mind.

What is there to say to your rainbow list? It is a list of names. You didn't offer any elaboration on anything so it's hard to offer commentary.

Also G-Man has a very interesting definition of having been absent. I was posting through day 0, which was a quiet day where not much happened, and was in bed for the first 9 hours of today. It's not like I'm a no-show.

I don't think very much has really happened yet. I thought Llama's vote was shifty af but now I don't. No idea who I'll vote for yet.

That was a joke, not an insult. I don't really care what you do with your vote but I do find it weird that you essentially voted me for being asleep.

G-Man wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Let's all make the same joke on the count of 3.

Let's just call this coincidence a case of great minds thinking alike.

...But fools seldom differ.

thellama73 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I'm voting for Quin for wanting to vote for the only option guaranteed to not catch a baddie.

How do you know it's guaranteed not to catch a baddie?

I was referring to the "no lynch" option, for which Quin expressed a preference. If we don't lynch people, it's impossible to catch bad guys.

Oh okay, that's fair. I thought you were talking about his actual vote for Bubbles and making some kind of point that voting a no-show doesn't lynch a baddie.

thellama73 wrote:I'm voting for Quin for wanting to vote for the only option guaranteed to not catch a baddie.

How do you know it's guaranteed not to catch a baddie?

G-Man wrote:Bullzeye hasn't shown up yet today so I'll put my vote there.

Damn it, how did you figure out that my being asleep was actually the first step of an evil plan to rule the world?

Epignosis wrote:Hey, uh, guys. Sorry I'm late to your party. I was really busy with my Batman-themed Internet mafia game. It's pretty cool I guess. I could show it to you some time if you...no? Okay.

What's a Batman? Sounds lame. Nerd.